I'm starting to play WvW...

I'm using this build from metabattle, it isn't a meta for WvW, but I'm not totally sure how all of this works yet.http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Soulbeast_-_Sic_%27Em_SniperI have used the following build in open world, and I understand the builds generally.https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Soulbeast_-_Frontline_SoulbeastWhat I don't understand is the benefit to my team of me playing the actual WvW meta, which is the frontline Soulbeast.It's a fun build to be sure, but any information on how to benefit my team with it would be greatly appreciated.I think for actual WVW I'm going to find a way to squeeze Moa stance and Search and Rescue in there.

S&R won't be that useful on a front line melee character. If you were using LB, you could yank downs out of the battle to relative safety. On melee, it's way more important to take skills that keep you and others from going down in the first place. Also note that SB is not "meta" for that reason. It's purely damage.

Yeah, I reverted to the melee build with GS and S/A.Left the build as it is, but I will replace sic 'em with Moa in group WvW.

@panchovilla.5986 said:Yeah, I reverted to the melee build with GS and S/A.Left the build as it is, but I will replace sic 'em with Moa in group WvW.

Sic em is great for roaming and breaking young thieves out of their closets.

You'd be much better suited building them as an actual sniper to take out scourges, because heaven forbid nobody around here seems to what to do that, but complain about scourges instead lol

@DeadlySynz.3471 said:You'd be much better suited building them as an actual sniper to take out scourges, because heaven forbid nobody around here seems to what to do that, but complain about scourges instead lol

I actually thought about that, and I borrowed a conquest sniper build, which I posted above.That build is designed for hunting necromancers and thieves, so would be appropriate to work on the scourge problem.Also, do thieves even have a role in WvW?I've thought about playing my thief there because that prof is a hoot, but I can't imagine why any commander would want them.

@panchovilla.5986 said:

@DeadlySynz.3471 said:You'd be much better suited building them as an actual sniper to take out scourges, because heaven forbid nobody around here seems to what to do that, but complain about scourges instead lol

we have a role! run around solo, flip stuff solo and kill people that dare to move too far away from their commander. cause thief is solo roaming king. it can be alot of fun and can be very efficient for your server as you can bind alot of people and stealth capture alot of structures. but you will get alot of not so pleasant whispers from your opponents and there will be no death without siege and jumping opponents (take note of the plural here) on your head. oh and dont go near your own zerg, they also hate you. unless you just pass by to kill that enemy thief, that has been killing the slackers all day.

@MUDse.7623 said:

@panchovilla.5986 said:

@DeadlySynz.3471 said:You'd be much better suited building them as an actual sniper to take out scourges, because heaven forbid nobody around here seems to what to do that, but complain about scourges instead lol

Hmm, sounds like a good life.There are just a few things thief related I don't have a good handle on.In this world, our damage is enhanced by stealth like In other MMO's, but the stealth mechanic plays out differently in this game.I can't quite get a handle on it, I dislike D/P but that appears to be the only way I can attack from stealth.But I am a GW2 newby and it may just mean that I haven't got it figured out.I'd LOVE to play D/D, but that doesn't seem viable in sPVP or WvW, so I use S/D.At least I get some of the elusiveness I want, plus attacking from behind and from the sides.Any thoughts?

D/D thief is not that bad in WvW. You could also do something like D/P + P/D to get both of the benefits of D/D (the easy stealth and the backstab.)

@panchovilla.5986 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@panchovilla.5986 said:

@DeadlySynz.3471 said:You'd be much better suited building them as an actual sniper to take out scourges, because heaven forbid nobody around here seems to what to do that, but complain about scourges instead lol

you can attack with any weapon and skill from stealth, stealth itself wont increase your damage.D/P is great for stealth stacking, most permastealth builds do run D/P and if it is just on backbar to stealth.using alot of stealth is really strong in WvW, especially as most people dont really know how to counterplay stealth stacking and how to handle a stealthed opponent.D/D power build is pretty easy to counter as they need to actually land CnD to get into stealth, while i still see from time to time D/D evade spamming condi thieves, wich are at least against newbs highly efficient.since shortly after PoF release i have only been playing a stealthy oneshot deadeye build, waiting for it to become inefficient and before that i had i think 7 month break, so better ask in thieves forum for other builds and how to play them, as i have been playing with d/p in WvW since june 2015, when they removed flanking strike precasting . and i roam a little different then most, like more tower/keep focused then small objectives and i play alot hide and stomp.

In terms of zerging/team fights, ranger/soulbeast/druid are NOT in the meta (take backline rev if u wanna snipe or frontline rev/Spellbreaker to take the hits. For roaming solo, druid is relatively strong simply for its kiting ability with staff, certain soulbeast builds are too, for ROAMING. But seeing this class in a zerg fight is just a lul.

@panchovilla.5986 said:

@DeadlySynz.3471 said:You'd be much better suited building them as an actual sniper to take out scourges, because heaven forbid nobody around here seems to what to do that, but complain about scourges instead lol

I solo roam, flip camps/sentries, harry the tail and I also keep an armor switch so I can run chokebow against zergs, which makes me a kind of ersatz baby well necro - all that poison and interrupt nets me a lot of bags. I would be lying if I did not admit that thief is kind of a lazy (but fun!) choice in wvw. I try to run rev or warrior if I have decided to run with a zerg for the night - rev is nice for its high damage and glassier armor aspects - I can almost like it as much as my thief.

@Fluffball.8307 said:D/D thief is not that bad in WvW. You could also do something like D/P + P/D to get both of the benefits of D/D (the easy stealth and the backstab.)

What are you talking about lol. D/D as a backstab build is generally terrible, especially in this state of the game since PoF where you're punished extremely hard just for engaging most professions in melee. It has no escape and isn't initiative-efficient. S/D is pretty much superior on all fronts except for signet burst builds, and even then, D/P is substantially better for the latter because its burst has zero counterplay unlike D/D's huge tells and super predictable kit due to its weak/overly-situational 2, 3, and 4.

@OP, you can stealth on the thief by either using OH dagger 5 which has to successfully land the hit on the opponent while engaged in melee, you can leap a Black Powder (OH pistol 5) via Heartseeker (dagger 2), using Daredevil's Bounding Dodge grandmaster trait, or using Deadeye Rifle 4 through one, and you can also blast Black Powder either via shortbow 2 (Cluster Bomb) or the Blinding Powder utility which will stack its stealth durations.

At the moment, the biggest thing holding a thief back from being useful in zergs if played exceptionally well is Hammer rev. Not uncommon to be two-shotted by its autos and you'll be similarly one-shotted easily by stray CoR's since it's a linear AoE with a very very short cooldown of only 4s (and zergs run tons of revs) and can't really be seen due to all the visual clutter on the ground. Spellbreaker gets in the way with Full Counter, but a S/D build can wreak havoc on Firebrands given its unblockable boon-stealing 3 chain skills Flanking/Larcenous Strike which do quite substantial damage while sword offers great engage and disengage and free condi cleanses.

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@Fluffball.8307 said:D/D thief is not that bad in WvW. You could also do something like D/P + P/D to get both of the benefits of D/D (the easy stealth and the backstab.)

I didn't say it was the best I said it's not that bad. Thieves that try to 1v1 people are usually pretty inexperienced and after that the backstabbing is effective.

@Blood.5607 said:In terms of zerging/team fights, ranger/soulbeast/druid are NOT in the meta (take backline rev if u wanna snipe or frontline rev/Spellbreaker to take the hits. For roaming solo, druid is relatively strong simply for its kiting ability with staff, certain soulbeast builds are too, for ROAMING. But seeing this class in a zerg fight is just a lul.

Which shows how little you know of how useful a few soulbeasts can be if built well and on TS or least know what they should be doing.

LB/GS Soulbeast with the right pets can be very useful to the zerg as well as being great at sniping and killing those pesky scourges. You can also keep constant pressure on a target as well as spiking with the aid of another soulbeast and can have strong condi cleanse too- as well as killing off those downed players that otherwise might get up again.

It's a question of how well the toon is played as well as the type and numbers of enemy you face as to whether I'm better off on my soulbeast as compared to one of my other toons. This week, for instance, I'm back on my slightly weird necro power build that's great for pushes and my spellbreaker isn't needed as we have enough of them.

Horses for courses.

I agree with Blood and prefer that people play Revenant or Scourge for range damage over any Ranger build. These professions are much easier to play with their AOE attacks and since they don't use a projectile they can't be reflected or destroyed by Winds of Disenchantment.

I understand that there are good Rangers out there but that doesn't matter to me. You have to use the right tool for the job.

@DeadlySynz.3471 said:You'd be much better suited building them as an actual sniper to take out scourges, because heaven forbid nobody around here seems to what to do that, but complain about scourges instead lol

...and weavers.

Frontline soulbeast, although more useful in group play than core ranger, is still basically relegated to sniping backliners, and finishing downs, which really isn't a bad thing.

I mean, technically you can mow your lawn with scissors

@Baldrick.8967 said:

@Blood.5607 said:In terms of zerging/team fights, ranger/soulbeast/druid are NOT in the meta (take backline rev if u wanna snipe or frontline rev/Spellbreaker to take the hits. For roaming solo, druid is relatively strong simply for its kiting ability with staff, certain soulbeast builds are too, for ROAMING. But seeing this class in a zerg fight is just a lul.

Sniping scourges in 2k18 when a good zerg will be sure their guards are putting up reflect bubbles. I would say MAYBE ONE Soulbeast is fine in a group (same reason why zergs run with one glass staff ele) but its not in meta. Again its better for roaming.

It's very easy to find the scourges who are outside the reflects. I'm talking about most standard zergs, not very organised guild groups - although even those are easy to pick your targets. I'm not saying it's meta, as it does actually require a little skill and positioning to play well. It's a lot harder to play well than my necro, where I can get away with making errors (well, more like skill 2 taking into the middle of the zerg rather than where I wanted to go!).

I find the biggest problem with the 'meta' is it refuses to think outside the box- hell, most of the time, despite being on ts, most comms don't even run multiple squads and multiple objective capping - which was pretty basic tactics in a previous game where we played 60v60. I'd love to see some real tactics used in wvw but mainly it's very dumbed down to cater for the casual nature of the game mode. It can still be good fun though!

@LetoII.3782 said:I mean, technically you can mow your lawn with scissors

Hey don't poke fun. When I moved into my new place I had to cut my lawn with lawn shears twice before getting out to pick up a lawn mower.They could increase the stances to affecting 10 people and grant the full duration to allies, I'm still not sure people would want a Soulbeast in their party over any type of Guardian or GWEN in general.

~ Kovu

Step 1: Make scourgeStep 2: Bash face on keyboardStep 3: Open all those lootbags you just earned