We don't touch core ranger to nerf druid : Here how you nerf Druid the easy and safe way

I grow tired of reading the same comments over and over....

-We don't touch Rugged Growth because not every ranger build goes around with 1k healing as stat , the base stat is 290 and full zerk ranger builds will heal for like 1.2k max while having protection; to nerf a core trait used by soulbeast/core ranger and future elites.......it's non-sense-In the same vein we don't touch Troll Unguent or any core element-People making these suggestions simply play the whiteknight part while covering their kitten, because in the end a number reduction to core trait would not change much their heal/stealth bot gameplay and they will be able to say :" noob , we nerfed druid so L2P"...meanwhile the rest will suffer greatly..I say :" hell no! "

If you want to really stop Druid from being the "perfect" and easy to play side duellist/point holder....we simply change Druid from point holder duellist to an actual support spec and give some space to Soulbeast

Here the idea : - we replace Verdant Etching with Druidic Clarity !....BOOOM...there is no more "super duellist" and ofc for balance sake now Verdant Etching remove 2 condis for glyph ( which would need a second pass )

If you want to nerf druid without harming core, reduce its ability to stealth after popping out of CA. The stealth and superspeed is really what gives the druid the ability to persist forever.

@Vagrant.7206 said:If you want to nerf druid without harming core, reduce its ability to stealth after popping out of CA. The stealth and superspeed is really what gives the druid the ability to persist forever.

With my proposed change there would be no need to nerf the stealth/super speed because now if the druid takes the stealth ..it would lose the condi clear/stunbreak so would die to condi burst regardless of stealth or not

@"Vagrant.7206" said:If you want to nerf druid without harming core, reduce its ability to stealth after popping out of CA. The stealth and superspeed is really what gives the druid the ability to persist forever.

Or players could learn to play better?

Or we run a shatter memesmer thingy and stealth burst ppl for 22,999k damage (like when I was wearing a full set of trailblazer on my necro) in 3 seconds? Then blink away?

Or maybe we role dat up-to-50k 1 shot deadeye? And stealth all night and short bow run away?

Or how many other good duel build do you want me to bring up? Or should we just complain about Druid here?

@"Arheundel.6451" said:I grow tired of reading the same comments over and over....

-We don't touch Rugged Growth because not every ranger build goes around with 1k healing as stat , the base stat is 290 and full zerk ranger builds will heal for like 1.2k max while having protection; to nerf a core trait used by soulbeast/core ranger and future elites.......it's non-sense-In the same vein we don't touch Troll Unguent or any core element-People making these suggestions simply play the whiteknight part while covering their kitten, because in the end a number reduction to core trait would not change much their heal/stealth bot gameplay and they will be able to say :" noob , we nerfed druid so L2P"...meanwhile the rest will suffer greatly..I say :" hell no! "

If you want to really stop Druid from being the "perfect" and easy to play side duellist/point holder....we simply change Druid from point holder duellist to an actual support spec and give some space to Soulbeast

Here the idea : - we replace Verdant Etching with Druidic Clarity !....BOOOM...there is no more "super duellist" and ofc for balance sake now Verdant Etching remove 2 condis for glyph ( which would need a second pass )

I have a far better idea! Practice more, learn from fights and work on improving your own skills and build!

You are very welcome!!!

That would actually be a solid choice there OP, would tilit all druids everywhere, but would make alot of sense, hell might even see some people pick a gyph or staff CD again.

Anyways the issue with rugged growth is it needs a max limitation, if you take menders and water runes it scales to high (600) if they lowered how much it scaled with healing power you would see druid loose quite a bit of sustain.

Heal Druids are agravateing to fight becuase of their disingae potential, however in the current meta they can't hold a point against spellbreaker or necro.

No nerf is necessary, and while I can see the thinking behind the proposal made by OP, it would be a severe nerf to druids in pvp.

The answer is a solid no. Asking for more nerfs to this class is like asking dodos to commit suicide. It makes no sense unless you have a bias. And, with respect, your post history shows a glaring one.

Not everything in this game is based on PvP nor your defeats in it.

I don't see any nerf!

A ) You play bunker support with Verdant etching - Druidic Clarity - XB ) You play side stealth duellist with x - Celestial shadow -ancient seed

Forced choice bring balance and stop devs from nerfing core for everybody

Again . . . no: a forced choice is no choice at all.

Having it all...it's no choice at all tooI find it ...rather disappointing that people defend that hard this "all in one" gameplay now when previously the entire community rioted for years to see D/D ele nerfed, doesn't druid play in exactly the same way?

-Hold multiple opponents-Side holder-Team fighter-Duellist

My suggestions are there to avoid nerfs to core ranger and the few viable pets left because that would effectively kill the entire class for anybody trying anything outside druid line

Oof. Another boo-hoo thread. I hate to say this but, LTP.Also, go back to ur own forum and ask them how to play. Stop complaining here.

Edit: Kitten changed to boo-hoo.

Swapping the traits around doesn't balance Druid against the complaints against the class whatsoever, it'll just increase the skill ceiling and skill gap between good Druids and bad Druids, and at the top you'll still have players who know how to kite well capable of trolling a node in the same way they currently do.

If Rangers don't run around with 1k healing power to begin with, in your words, then it doesn't hurt core builds or Soulbeast builds to reduce the healing scale on Rugged Growth. Which by the way, isn't the true issue Rugged Growth causes, it's that it gives Druid over the top AF generation when combined with everything else, making the concept of a mechanic that's supposed to be balanced by a resource mechanic broken because it removes the need to actually manage the resource from the equation. Celestial Form may as well be on a 15 second cooldown in the current state of the build. I'd personally prefer to see Rugged Growth changed back to being a flat damage reduction mechanic like the trait it replaced, then for it to be an out of place, extra, passive healing source.

Troll Unguent has the same problem, it generates way too much AF. Compact the healing once again like what was done with it previously when it was reduced from 10s to 8s, and reduce the time it ticks for by half.

I'd say this is the better way to gate access to powerful mechanics; utilizing the intended mechanic gate. Make it so that players can't just kite around building AF. That would also go a long way for nudging the spec towards a more support oriented/focused gameplay. With the inability to kite around generating AF, players would have to actively participate in fights, and actively supporting allies would be an opportunity good players would want to take advantage of as much as possible to maintain their AF generation.

Ranger, Druid, Soulbeast; it's all the same class. Mechanics need to be changed and rebalanced to suit the existence is of all 3 concepts.

I agree though that the people that are just advocating for blanket nerfs don't understand how the class works and are just looking to maliciously rebalance Druid to suit their own agenda.

Personally, I miss the gameplay where if I had my Regen removed by a player who understood the older meta builds relied on it to generate AF, it was basically good fight, game over.

That is, until someone discovered Dolyak Runes generated AF. The concept of Celestial Form being a gated resource mechanic has been broken ever since, and really, if we're talking about Druid needing any sort of rebalancing, it should start at that fundamental design concept level.

@Eleazar.9478 said:That would actually be a solid choice there OP, would tilit all druids everywhere, but would make alot of sense, hell might even see some people pick a gyph or staff CD again.

Anyways the issue with rugged growth is it needs a max limitation, if you take menders and water runes it scales to high (600) if they lowered how much it scaled with healing power you would see druid loose quite a bit of sustain.

Heal Druids are agravateing to fight becuase of their disingae potential, however in the current meta they can't hold a point against spellbreaker or necro.

Youre wrong. Current Druid meta dont lose to any 1v1 in the current meta. Even holosmith cant pressure it off node. And this is in legendary game. I main druid. And even i find it Op

@corey.6451 said:

@"Eleazar.9478" said:That would actually be a solid choice there OP, would tilit all druids everywhere, but would make alot of sense, hell might even see some people pick a gyph or staff CD again.

Anyways the issue with rugged growth is it needs a max limitation, if you take menders and water runes it scales to high (600) if they lowered how much it scaled with healing power you would see druid loose quite a bit of sustain.

Heal Druids are agravateing to fight becuase of their disingae potential, however in the current meta they can't hold a point against spellbreaker or necro.

You do realize beacause of your tone nobody takes you seriously right? you come off as just a another QQer, and Yes a good holo can pressure a druid off point (by chaining CC and forcing druid into a cele stealth) , also the only few places i see druid not loosing being forced of point is the side nodes in kylo or mid at legacy due to the space available, but yes druids can be forced off point due to their survival really coming from stealth and mobility, has nothing to with a 1v1, but a spell-breaker or scourge will force druids off point and prolly at least get the decap. PVP is about doing capping points not 1v1s per say. Also saw Iyou QQ in another thread claiming ws "is to OP" and yet claim to play base ranger (now you say druid but whatever. ) without WS new rework base ranger would get demolished, so would 1 of the two solid varients for soul beast right now. this is why I mentioned rugged growth because with healing power maxed it is pretty op, now when you dont run healing power the trait is fine for what it is, I feel like you got spanked and came to the forums to rage at people.

@jcbroe.4329 said:you raise some good points but I mean 600 per tic with a protection build on druid, thats pretty high, for example remember MMR wars, well that was with might that was only 400 per tic. 600 is our old troll-ungent. And in this case moving traits around would be a reasonable nerf I think, do you choose cleanse or stealth, and would make picking adept traits more viable and interesting. (also would give a sb/ranger a better shot at 1v1ing a druid as proper chain CC would be alot easier to pull off)

and old generation? you mean the passive regen from shouts, staff postioning, comboing into your water fields? (shout master is still good btw hell shade got pretty far by going the sb route with it)

1) What is this made up false narrative that druid is the "perfect" side holder? Druid is far from it, several classes can make you get off point and stealth all the time(resulting in de-cap). Druids were not a thing last season, there were much fewer druids compared to last seasons. I never saw an issue of druid stacking in teams, I saw very few druids on pros scene, So NO, druid being super imba is realy not a thing.

2)You say WS is not the problem, but any druid build without WS is weak and squishy. Some even say that WS/NM/BM will give you better self survivability (and dmg ofc) compared a druid without WS. So ya, if there is an issue with over sustain is due to WS.

3)So how do you balance things without harming core ranger/soulbeast builds? It's very simple, just change the scaling with healing power. You said it yourself, "ot every ranger build goes around with 1k healing", So this won't effect you much.

4)I do think DC&CS traits are too mandatory and should be toned down, but only when the will buff the unused traits(and minors), glyphs, CA1 and staff 2&4.

@"LughLongArm.5460" said:1) What is this made up false narrative that druid is the "perfect" side holder? Druid is far from it, several classes can make you get off point and stealth all the time(resulting in de-cap). Druids were not a thing last season, there were much fewer druids compared to last seasons. I never saw an issue of druid stacking in teams, I saw very few druids on pros scene, So NO, druid being super imba is realy not a thing.

2)You say WS is not the problem, but any druid build without WS is weak and squishy. Some even say that WS/NM/BM will give you better self survivability (and dmg ofc) compared a druid without WS. So ya, if there is an issue with over sustain is due to WS.

3)So how do you balance things without harming core ranger/soulbeast builds? It's very simple, just change the scaling with healing power. You said it yourself, "ot every ranger build goes around with 1k healing", So this won't effect you much.

4)I do think DC&CS traits are too mandatory and should be toned down, but only when the will buff the unused traits(and minors), glyphs, CA1 and staff 2&4.

1) Maybe you want to change to "perfect harasser" and it's not because of the pets dmg..not because of the mobility or the healing...it's because of the stealth repositioning combined with stunbreak+full condi clear on a 15s CD

2) You could run a mender soulbeast and still wouldn't be considered for the side holder position over current druid, it's not the healing the problem...it's not the healing keeping the side druid alive if not replace CS with verdant etching in a current druid meta build and let's see the results

3) Yes I would not have problem ..except it's no right in the end because the problem is druid disengage potential with CS and not the sustain given by a core trait

4) Really people are only bugged by CS, they don't care how many condis you clear..they can spam a full stack 5s after you clear....

Guys , you realize that we are the only class who ask Anet to nerf us? (even we are not OP or best class regarding PVP in the game) And what it's worst, some of you want to nerf core ranger traits, not Druid traits.I hope in the end you will got what you've asked! and then you will cry to buff again the ranger.

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:If you want to nerf druid without harming core, reduce its ability to stealth after popping out of CA. The stealth and superspeed is really what gives the druid the ability to persist forever.

The condi in this latest revision of pvp is amazing. Amazingly strong. Amazingly overpowered.

Please, go pvp, get into a match, run into mid where the other team has 2 necros and a mesmer, get in the mix of a fight, wait for your health to drop to 50 percent and then tell me if your stealth and condi clear will do anything to save you.

No one is nerfing Core because of Druid.If anything, core got nerfed to sell expansions and druid got nerfed to sell even more expansions.The same thing will eventually happen to soulbeast.

And how bad do you think core is? I watch a streamer play at high plat---reached top 50 with a core ranger.

Do you have the expansions?

@Eleazar.9478 said:

@"jcbroe.4329" said:you raise some good points but I mean 600 per tic with a protection build on druid, thats pretty high, for example remember MMR wars, well that was with might that was only 400 per tic. 600 is our old troll-ungent. And in this case moving traits around would be a reasonable nerf I think, do you choose cleanse or stealth, and would make picking adept traits more viable and interesting. (also would give a sb/ranger a better shot at 1v1ing a druid as proper chain CC would be alot easier to pull off)

Yeah, I definitely think Rugged Growth scales way too well.

But I ultimately think that all of the things that seem strong are perceived that way because of the combination of everything. Not to mention that another comparable Ranger elite spec, Soulbeast, is just flat out weak, and makes everything look strong next to it's traiting, utility, and added weapon option.

But like with those traits, for example. If Druidic Clarity and Celestial Shadow were gated behind an extreme of, let's say 60 seconds, you'd see maybe 1 person who just played their first PvP match complaining. If Druids couldn't spend the majority of their time healing between 1k and 3k health per second with relatively low counterplay, people would be less inclined to complain as well, since the Druid spec would actually have a decent time period inbetween when it can reset fights.

And yes, I'm referencing the old meta shout build. Which also, with that in mind, I think it's very important to note on this whole subject that it is a very specific combination of traits that's even causing Druid to be the topic of debate. Returning to the old shout build would feel to most people like playing a glass cannon build that lacks a viable role in the metagame up against the current meta.

That's the reason I wish people would expand the scope of the topic. The traits were never complained about in older meta builds either, because access to Celestial Form and healing outside of Celestial Form was limited and had more counterplay.

It's a very specific setup abusing how AF generation works that is by far the culprit of the outcrys for nerfs since the build was popularized.

This is how I think it should go. Look at what I mentioned with the spec and nerf the resource management aspects of it to return Celestial Form to a state of performing as though it's a gated mechanic. Reevaluate Druid to see whether or not, on an even playing field, traits need nerfs/buffs/moves to compete.

The state of the entire PvP metagame is really just a bad time to have this discussion, because everything has to be performing in some over the top way in order to even be semi viable. Firebrand is a support god, Scourge is a condi/corrupt god, Daredevil is a mobility god, Holosmith is a damage god, and Spellbreaker and Druid are both self sustain/dueling gods.

It's an exercise in civility and being objective to even have this conversation and not "shout" at people for having such a lack of sense that they're advocating for nerfs for our class when the balance is in the state it's in.

Druid is not perfect, but yes it is good. The better the player who is using the profession the better it will perform because they know how to make use of the utilities, traits and weapon skills in every situation against different professions.

That exact same thing can be said about every profession in this game other than Revenant which is severely underpowered right now in comparison to everything else. If you look on every single profession forum you'll see threads asking for buffs because "we're too weak" or threads calling for nerfs because "XX is OP." outside of scourge i think we're in a pretty decent state of balance. The right build on the right profession in the hands of the right player works very well.

In my humble opinion what i'd like to see now that we have more elite specs is that each one has a very defined role and excels in that role. We shouldn't run the Druid traitline in a DPS build, or Soulbeast on a bunker. Core ranger needs to be in a place where it can remain the "jack of all trades" and should have trait lines that can enhance both soulbeast and druid and any other elite specs coming.

@jcbroe.4329 said:

@Eleazar.9478 said:

@jcbroe.4329 said:you raise some good points but I mean 600 per tic with a protection build on druid, thats pretty high, for example remember MMR wars, well that was with might that was only 400 per tic. 600 is our old troll-ungent. And in this case moving traits around would be a reasonable nerf I think, do you choose cleanse or stealth, and would make picking adept traits more viable and interesting. (also would give a sb/ranger a better shot at 1v1ing a druid as proper chain CC would be alot easier to pull off)

In suggest you to watch this video....

It was in a time when Anet actually cared about their reputation gained thx to GW1 and were not concerned or rather pressured by NCSOFT shareholders to water down the gameplay as much as possible in order to attract as many casuals as possible..also the video it's from a time where we had no "carry me please" builds like all current meta specs and new players had to get their hand dirty in order to become somebody...not rely on gimmicks to carry them despite hundreds of mistakes.

Threads are being made, some people got the guts to go out there and ask to nerf clearly OP specs of which druid is one...regardless of what others think or say, the response to these threads will be always the same :-verbal assault against the OP-mockering and name calling

The truth is that the average player doesn't want to lose access to their gimmick as it's their only way to move forward and they will do whatever in their power to keep the status quo, the average player deluded himself in believing that the act of surviving seemingly unscathed a 1vsX, it's due to their superior grasp of the gameplay...and they will bark at anybody saying otherwise

@Arheundel.6451 said:

Threads are being made, some people got the guts to go out there and ask to nerf clearly OP specs of which druid is one...regardless of what others think or say, the response to these threads will be always the same :-verbal assault against the OP-mockering and name calling

The truth is that the average player doesn't want to lose access to their gimmick as it's their only way to move forward and they will do whatever in their power to keep the status quo, the average player deluded himself in believing that the act of surviving seemingly unscathed a 1vsX, it's due to their superior grasp of the gameplay...and they will bark at anybody saying otherwise

Can you tell me please what class do you play? Your main ofc ...I don't know what game do you play, but in WvW EU, Seafarer's Rest server , I didn't hear anybody complain about Druids. Also I didn't see many Druids like Scourge, Spellbreakers, Deadeye, Firebrands or Mirage.In the same time alway, but always I killed a Druid with my Soulbeast. I am agree that if a Druid see he is loosing the fight he can escape and this is it ... but this doesn't means he is OP.I didn't see a Druid to one shot a player from a group of 5 and then run away like nothing can touch him (Mirage)I didn't see a Druid who can kill with AOE condi damage in 3 sec 3 players from another party of 5, then teleport back to his friends (Scourge)I didn't see a Druid + Firebrand to kill 5 players like a Scourge + Firebrand can .... etc and the examples can continue ....So please don't tell me that Druid is OP. He is good, and it is there , in his place where it should be ... but is not OP.Please go to another forum class , and complain there about Druid.It's nonsense to come on Ranger forum and ask to nerf one Ranger specialization just because you don't like the class. Can you? Please?!

Thank you!

PS: GW2 is not GW1 , and nothing, but nothing can be comparable in these 2 games. The whole system is different, class are different from POV of fights, system is different etc ... maybe you just got in wrong game, isn't ?

Was that response even intended for me?I'm not sure what you're on about @Arheundel.6451 with that response, but I already said earlier your change doesn't rebalance anything.

People will still choose Druidic Clarity, because in this metagame why would you choose anything else, and good Druids will still be able to 1v1 and 1v2 the vast majority of people they're up against.

It's just not a tangible solution, you're just removing an option from a build that will still remain the dominant build without even remotely touching it's capabilities, and your own bias is keeping you from understanding that it's tools that come from the core ranger toolkit that need how they interact with Druid changed, not nerfed, in order to rebalance this particular build that's over performing; not Druid as a whole.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'll take the common PvP playerbase suggestion of increasing the cooldown on Celestial Form to 18-20 seconds before any of the ideas that keep getting thrown around on this subforum, because although it's heavy handed in how it doesn't affect all builds equally, at least it suggests a basic understanding of what the actual problem is.