suggestion to help balance druid

Due to condis being nerfed druid is a king of points.

What I think is making druid too sustainy is the the rugged growth change, as right now a druid can have near perma protection and have rugged growth scale past 600 per tic which is our old troll ungent.

This problem is two fold

1 the protection up time negates damage and with the Regen completely negates dps (evade and boom your regening your health)

2 all of the passive regen recharges cele avater with little effort.

My "fix"

1) Increase the base rugged growth to 360 and greatly decrease it's scaleing with healing power, in order for the trait to actually help dps builds while preventing it from scaleing so high with menders

2) Change the values on cele Regen. Make it recharge more for doing damage, outgoing healing (edit*)and recharge less for self healing. This would encourage more active game play forceing the druid to stay in the fight, instead just kiting around while you or your pet takes damage and gives you free celestial form.

@"Eleazar.9478" said:Due to condis being nerfed druid is a king of points.

What I think is making druid to sustainy is the the rugged growth change, as right now a druid can have near perma protection and have rugged growth scale past 600 per tic which is our old troll ungent.

This problem is two fold

1 the protection up time negates damage and with the Regen completely negates dps (evade and boom your regening your health)

2 all of the passive regen recharges cele avater with little effort.

My "fix"

1) Increase the base rugged growth to 360 and greatly decrease it's scaleing with healing power, in order for the trait to actually help dps builds while preventing it from scaleing so high with menders

2) Change the values on cele Regen. Make it recharge more for doing damage and recharge less for healing. This would encourage more active game play forceing the druid to stay in the fight, instead just kiting around while you or your pet takes damage and gives you free celestial form.

Or players can learn to play better and use available counters in their build? Oh and practice too?

@Swagger.1459 said:

@"Eleazar.9478" said:Due to condis being nerfed druid is a king of points.

What I think is making druid to sustainy is the the rugged growth change, as right now a druid can have near perma protection and have rugged growth scale past 600 per tic which is our old troll ungent.

This problem is two fold

1 the protection up time negates damage and with the Regen completely negates dps (evade and boom your regening your health)

2 all of the passive regen recharges cele avater with little effort.

My "fix"

1) Increase the base rugged growth to 360 and greatly decrease it's scaleing with healing power, in order for the trait to actually help dps builds while preventing it from scaleing so high with menders

2) Change the values on cele Regen. Make it recharge more for doing damage and recharge less for healing. This would encourage more active game play forceing the druid to stay in the fight, instead just kiting around while you or your pet takes damage and gives you free celestial form.

Counters like what? Even if you strip protection it's very easy to reapply it, theres only two "counters" right now spellbreaker and sword thief do to reliable boon rip. what I'm proposing won't hurt rangers and soulbeasts and will give druid a more active play style. The passive bunker is cancer and unhealthy for the game.

@Eleazar.9478 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:

@Eleazar.9478 said:Due to condis being nerfed druid is a king of points.

What I think is making druid to sustainy is the the rugged growth change, as right now a druid can have near perma protection and have rugged growth scale past 600 per tic which is our old troll ungent.

This problem is two fold

1 the protection up time negates damage and with the Regen completely negates dps (evade and boom your regening your health)

2 all of the passive regen recharges cele avater with little effort.

My "fix"

1) Increase the base rugged growth to 360 and greatly decrease it's scaleing with healing power, in order for the trait to actually help dps builds while preventing it from scaleing so high with menders

2) Change the values on cele Regen. Make it recharge more for doing damage and recharge less for healing. This would encourage more active game play forceing the druid to stay in the fight, instead just kiting around while you or your pet takes damage and gives you free celestial form.

@"Eleazar.9478" said:Due to condis being nerfed druid is a king of points.

What I think is making druid too sustainy is the the rugged growth change, as right now a druid can have near perma protection and have rugged growth scale past 600 per tic which is our old troll ungent.

This problem is two fold

1 the protection up time negates damage and with the Regen completely negates dps (evade and boom your regening your health)

2 all of the passive regen recharges cele avater with little effort.

My "fix"

1) Increase the base rugged growth to 360 and greatly decrease it's scaleing with healing power, in order for the trait to actually help dps builds while preventing it from scaleing so high with menders

2) Change the values on cele Regen. Make it recharge more for doing damage, outgoing healing (edit*)and recharge less for self healing. This would encourage more active game play forceing the druid to stay in the fight, instead just kiting around while you or your pet takes damage and gives you free celestial form.

Could work. They could split it even with this implementation you are proposing. Change the scaling for PvP and keep it for PvE.So you still want to heal to be more effective in group content and survive for long times to help your team in PvE. The rugged growth part could be changed eitherway. Idc if it stays as is but bumping up the basehealing and reduce scaling doesnt sound bad to me.

TBH the only change I want to see is that they remove ALL of the healing from solar beam.

The auto attack on staff is the only reason why the skill floor is so low for druid, even a complete knob head can pick up staff druid and auto attack their way to voice in the void and pvp god. (slight exaggeration)

I have no issue that druid is such an effective bunker or healer. I just take issue with the ease with which it does it.

Yeah, the numbers on how quickly the metabuild gets it's Celestial Avatar back are insanely forgiveable and lacking of counterplay.

I still stand by that I personally don't believe that Rugged Growth should be a tool that's capable of generating CF at all (aka change it to a damage reduction instead of a heal, and also don't force core Ranger into healing stats, that's what Druid is for) but that's because Troll Unguent is (and has always been) too strong at generation CF on it's own.

Part of what makes Troll Unguent strong is that it's been a condi based metagame for awhile though, and with the newly buffed WS line, there's no way that a condi build can generate enough killing pressure against even just a Ranger that knows when to use Troll Unguent. Power builds like Rev can easily pressure through Troll Unguent and force a Druid to run to live, but because those sorts of builds aren't viable, the metagame lacks the damage pressure to really say just exactly how strong Troll + WS is as a whole.

Another problem is how Live Vicariously interacts with Troll Unguent to generate CF, and even staff, on the metabuild. You can get 24 unrippable, uncounterable in terms of generating CF healing ticks from just Troll Unguent.

I still stand by the best solution for this is to half the amount of ticks and double the amount of healing per tick. It doesn't change the strength of the heal, only the amount of CF generation, and with the new WS line way overbuffing it compared to the next best heal, suggesting a simple change over a nerf could be showing my bias for Ranger a little too much.

Even with all of that, there's still the question of whether or not it's enough. Maybe Live Vicariously should be changed so that it heals less frequently instead of or alongside some of these changes. Maybe just replace Live Vicariously with Lingering Light and then create a new GM trait? That's what I would want to do if I was a content designer.

Not that I'm against the suggestions in the OP or anything. I said it elsewhere but I'll say it again here, it's just that when you start blanket nerfing things because 1 single build is overperforming (I doubt all the QQ is about shout Druid), you end up nerfing every other build alongside it and reducing build diversity. I also believe that these few, miniscule functionality changes would reduce the power of the metabuild significantly without harming Core components, and I'd love for someone that disagrees to logically express how the suggested changes are nerfs in any capacity.

I'll also be the first person to say it since I decided to play exclusively as Core Ranger this season; if Druid didn't exist, Ranger would still have a metabuild option and be able to compete (shoot, it'd still be a better option than Weaver and Scrapper for the same role). I strongly believe that anybody trying to "preserve" Core components while suggesting nerfs to Druid has no idea what makes Druid, or even Ranger, work or what makes it strong, and really that means their opinions on balancing the class don't carry any weight.

@"Eleazar.9478" said:Due to condis being nerfed druid is a king of points.

What I think is making druid too sustainy is the the rugged growth change, as right now a druid can have near perma protection and have rugged growth scale past 600 per tic which is our old troll ungent.

This problem is two fold

1 the protection up time negates damage and with the Regen completely negates dps (evade and boom your regening your health)

2 all of the passive regen recharges cele avater with little effort.

My "fix"

1) Increase the base rugged growth to 360 and greatly decrease it's scaleing with healing power, in order for the trait to actually help dps builds while preventing it from scaleing so high with menders

2) Change the values on cele Regen. Make it recharge more for doing damage, outgoing healing (edit*)and recharge less for self healing. This would encourage more active game play forceing the druid to stay in the fight, instead just kiting around while you or your pet takes damage and gives you free celestial form.

Just remove the healing from CA 1, 2, and 4 and replace them with damage/control skills. The issue is that Druids have no incentive to stay in CA. Also, every trait aside from Druidic Clarity, Celestial Shadow, and Grace of the Land need to be reworked to give them a reason to be picked over their meta counterparts.

@Swagger.1459 said:

@"Eleazar.9478" said:Due to condis being nerfed druid is a king of points.

What I think is making druid to sustainy is the the rugged growth change, as right now a druid can have near perma protection and have rugged growth scale past 600 per tic which is our old troll ungent.

This problem is two fold

1 the protection up time negates damage and with the Regen completely negates dps (evade and boom your regening your health)

2 all of the passive regen recharges cele avater with little effort.

My "fix"

1) Increase the base rugged growth to 360 and greatly decrease it's scaleing with healing power, in order for the trait to actually help dps builds while preventing it from scaleing so high with menders

2) Change the values on cele Regen. Make it recharge more for doing damage and recharge less for healing. This would encourage more active game play forceing the druid to stay in the fight, instead just kiting around while you or your pet takes damage and gives you free celestial form.

Dont forget, "dodge" and my favorite "git gud".

@EnderzShadow.2506 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:

@"Eleazar.9478" said:Due to condis being nerfed druid is a king of points.

What I think is making druid to sustainy is the the rugged growth change, as right now a druid can have near perma protection and have rugged growth scale past 600 per tic which is our old troll ungent.

This problem is two fold

1 the protection up time negates damage and with the Regen completely negates dps (evade and boom your regening your health)

2 all of the passive regen recharges cele avater with little effort.

My "fix"

1) Increase the base rugged growth to 360 and greatly decrease it's scaleing with healing power, in order for the trait to actually help dps builds while preventing it from scaleing so high with menders

2) Change the values on cele Regen. Make it recharge more for doing damage and recharge less for healing. This would encourage more active game play forceing the druid to stay in the fight, instead just kiting around while you or your pet takes damage and gives you free celestial form.

And a few others like... learn to use boonstrip, boon corrupt, poison (debuffs all heals and regen by 33%), interrupts, daze, knockbacks, reveal... maybe?

Or do we just keep complaining that 3 years of Druid is not enough to use the established counters to this build? Because it can’t possibly be the player on Druid is skilled right? No, so the Druid build is just that immortal god build of spvp that a 5yo could master and beat anyone on, and therefore must be nerfed.

... or maybe all these console fps shooter gamer graduates are experiencing some growing pains with mmo combat and still have poor build decision making skills?

And , AGAIN! same ppl or new ones who ask AGAIN for nerf their own class. Guys, rly you are lost without any chance of recovery ... You are the only (and Ranger forums is the only) players who asked again and again and forever to nerf their own class. I don't know hot to call this, or what to think about you. But for sure you (all of you who ask to nerf Druid just because now is too bunker , with too much heal etc ..) don't deserve to be rangers. Maybe you choose the wrong class and maybe you should go with another class and complain on their forum about how OP is Druid. And yes, every time I'll see a new post on Ranger Forum about how to nerf Druid or Core Ranger or Soulbeast, I'll be there and protest vs ppl who want this. Like I said, go to other forum, the forums of other classes and complain there and put there your ideas about how to nerf the ranger.

Nobody here is asking for nerfs. We're just not dumb enough to think that's a matter of choice, when the reality is that's it's only a matter of time before we're the target for nerfs.

@jcbroe.4329 said:Nobody here is asking for nerfs. We're just not dumb enough to think that's a matter of choice, when the reality is that's it's only a matter of time before we're the target for nerfs.

yes , this is an asking for nerf, like other posts are. If you go on Mesmer posts, or Spellbeaker (the most OP class atm) you will not see any post where they asking for nerfing their class, you will not see any suggestion for diminish their huge damage, huge invisibility or for huge defensive. Druid was like it is for months/years by now, also the mesmers ... when Anet will consider that it must be a change for druid they will make it. We , rangers still have a lot of problems with core ranger and Soulbeast (I am not saying we are not good in WvW, sPVP or PVE, because we are) but still are many things to fix it, let's focus on those ... don't dig up too deep on something who is working atm ... even for some appear to be OP.

@Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

@jcbroe.4329 said:Nobody here is asking for nerfs. We're just not dumb enough to think that's a matter of choice, when the reality is that's it's only a matter of time before we're the target for nerfs.

Speaking just for myself now and directly to you, I personally do not want to see any aspect of Ranger touched in any way.

But, as a person who would like to think of themselves as reasonable, I also can't imagine a reality in which we don't eat nerfs in the upcoming balance patches.

I don't desire nerfs, and I'm not going to go out of my way to advocate or ask for them.

But I will continue to participate in these discussions because I truly believe that should the day come that we are nerfed, the health of the class depends on ANet listening to me and others of similar intent, like this thread, instead of the people who are only looking to rip functionality and usability away from the class.

And another truth is that the whiners; those people advocating for Druid nerfs because they are genuinely so bad that they don't understand the class/spec and just want it gone, and the people that will always want to see it hurt by patches regardless of how strong it is. They will never play at a skill level where those of us that are good Ranger players won't be able to beat them and make them cry for nerfs. That's why you shouldn't mind whether or not we end up nerfed or not, because even if we do, we will always win, and they will always lose.

@jcbroe.4329 said:

@Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

@jcbroe.4329 said:Nobody here is asking for nerfs. We're just not dumb enough to think that's a matter of choice, when the reality is that's it's only a matter of time before we're the target for nerfs.

This time I am agree with you :P

@"Eleazar.9478" said:Due to condis being nerfed druid is a king of points.

What I think is making druid too sustainy is the the rugged growth change, as right now a druid can have near perma protection and have rugged growth scale past 600 per tic which is our old troll ungent.

This problem is two fold

1 the protection up time negates damage and with the Regen completely negates dps (evade and boom your regening your health)

2 all of the passive regen recharges cele avater with little effort.

My "fix"

1) Increase the base rugged growth to 360 and greatly decrease it's scaleing with healing power, in order for the trait to actually help dps builds while preventing it from scaleing so high with menders

2) Change the values on cele Regen. Make it recharge more for doing damage, outgoing healing (edit*)and recharge less for self healing. This would encourage more active game play forceing the druid to stay in the fight, instead just kiting around while you or your pet takes damage and gives you free celestial form.

A hush , a healer in an mma finally can shine and you just want to pew pew

@"jcbroe.4329" also take a look on mesmer forum, and tell me if you find there any post about how to "balance" mesmer. Even after patch they have that power mesmer who can 1 shot you when you are on CD , you'll see that all mesmers still complain about how weak they are now, and that Anet must fix/buff them. But rangers community ? no, we want our class to be "balanced" because our Druid is too powerful and we are so honest and righteous and we want that our class to be equal or less powerful/useful than other class. Why? because we are proud rangers ...

PS: I already read your opinion, this comment was just to show to the others what our community do comparable with other community .

All this chatter about balancing Druid when I'm still waiting for sword's auto to fully cleave and Polar Bear's F2 cooldown to be lowered.... Still reaching for that low-hanging fruit!! :expressionless:

So much hypocrisy...unfortunately they removed the old forum if not it's be easy to dig previous posts of rangers demanding nerfs on other classes while talking about unicorn balance, when then the fire comes under their favourite spec..all come down singing the holy gospel and going in defensive mode

@Arheundel.6451 said:So much hypocrisy...unfortunately they removed the old forum if not it's be easy to dig previous posts of rangers demanding nerfs on other classes while talking about unicorn balance, when then the fire comes under their favourite spec..all come down singing the holy gospel and going in defensive mode

Really, please share what profession is struggling to out dps a druid?

@jcbroe.4329 said:Nobody here is asking for nerfs. We're just not dumb enough to think that's a matter of choice, when the reality is that's it's only a matter of time before we're the target for nerfs.

Always respect your opinion

need I remind you or anyone else here, that it wasn't that long ago when this bit of regen your talking about could not compete with the destruction and overpowered damage we faced...or that as soon as we entered form, we were blown up with condis.

and now what, we deserve a nerf because a few very overpowered classes got tuned?

Cause look, here's what is going to happen, other classes will become stronger again and that will make this cf regen and regen absolutely insignificant.

Also, there are still counters to druid.condi thiefpewpew thiefengineer with all their knockdowns is ridiculousGood burn guards (still a thing)

@EnderzShadow.2506 said:

@jcbroe.4329 said:Nobody here is asking for nerfs. We're just not dumb enough to think that's a matter of choice, when the reality is that's it's only a matter of time before we're the target for nerfs.

You forgot about our worst enemy ... MESMER! they said they fixed/nerfed Mesemer ... Is not true .... Mesmer it is still too OP , even we talk about condi or power one. The fact they change some confusion to torment didn't mean nothing ... Mesmer still can do super huge damage and still has 10000 skills for defence + 1000 invisibility/clones/teleportation etc . This is stupid! I want to see all these rangers who are crying to nerf Druid, going on mesmers forum and ask there for nerf the Mesmer.I am tired to see every week a new post on ranger forum about how to nerf Druid. If I was a moderator I deleted every post from Ranger Forum who ask to nerf this class.

@Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

@EnderzShadow.2506 said:

@"jcbroe.4329" said:Nobody here is asking for nerfs. We're just not dumb enough to think that's a matter of choice, when the reality is that's it's only a matter of time before we're the target for nerfs.

The ones you should be wary of are the same ones, you lot seem to hold in high esteem :

-nerf signet of stone-nerf rugged growth-nerf troll unguent

Anybody with even the min understanding of ranger knows that nerfs like that would do less than zero to address druid balance issues, they're completely irrelevant and the non-sense spouted to justify such nerfs, it's absolutely maddening

-Reduce access to CA?-Easier to counter?

What crap is that? I have a freaking staff with an evasion/dash skill on 1200 range, I have stealth on demand with lb or blast in shadow field still, you can use WHAO and see absolutely zero difference which makes the troll unguent claim even more absurd.It's ridiculous to suggest that core ranger nerfs would fix druid issue, yes ofc being druid a ranger elite, you can expect it to be affected somehow if you nerf the ranger....1+1=2, but the nerfs suggested by these "pro" rangers would do nothing to reduce druid ability to reset fights at will and instead will greatly affect already underperforming and future specs

Druid must be like it is now! Point! If something must be done in this game it's about fix/nerf the Mesmer. This class is just too OP, too broken. After patch they seems to be more powerful and not balanced like Anet said.

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

@EnderzShadow.2506 said:

@"jcbroe.4329" said:Nobody here is asking for nerfs. We're just not dumb enough to think that's a matter of choice, when the reality is that's it's only a matter of time before we're the target for nerfs.

http://www.twitch.tv/itsjroh/v/221023154?sr=a&t=0s

I'm a Ranger main, not a Druid main. It's all encompassing of course, but you still don't seem to grasp that.