suggestion to help balance druid

Arheundel.6451 · February 10, 2018

@jcbroe.4329 said:
@Arheundel.6451 said:
@Dragonzhunter.8506 said:
@EnderzShadow.2506 said:
@jcbroe.4329 said:Nobody here is asking for nerfs. We're just not dumb enough to think that's a matter of choice, when the reality is that's it's only a matter of time before we're the target for nerfs.

Always respect your opinion

need I remind you or anyone else here, that it wasn't that long ago when this bit of regen your talking about could not compete with the destruction and overpowered damage we faced...or that as soon as we entered form, we were blown up with condis.

and now what, we deserve a nerf because a few very overpowered classes got tuned?

Cause look, here's what is going to happen, other classes will become stronger again and that will make this cf regen and regen absolutely insignificant.

Also, there are still counters to druid.condi thiefpewpew thiefengineer with all their knockdowns is ridiculousGood burn guards (still a thing)

You forgot about our worst enemy ... MESMER! they said they fixed/nerfed Mesemer ... Is not true .... Mesmer it is still too OP , even we talk about condi or power one. The fact they change some confusion to torment didn't mean nothing ... Mesmer still can do super huge damage and still has 10000 skills for defence + 1000 invisibility/clones/teleportation etc . This is stupid! I want to see all these rangers who are crying to nerf Druid, going on mesmers forum and ask there for nerf the Mesmer.I am tired to see every week a new post on ranger forum about how to nerf Druid. If I was a moderator I deleted every post from Ranger Forum who ask to nerf this class.

The ones you should be wary of are the same ones, you lot seem to hold in high esteem :

-nerf signet of stone-nerf rugged growth-nerf troll unguent

Anybody with even the min understanding of ranger knows that nerfs like that would do less than zero to address druid balance issues, they're completely irrelevant and the non-sense spouted to justify such nerfs, it's absolutely maddening

-Reduce access to CA?-Easier to counter?

What crap is that? I have a freaking staff with an evasion/dash skill on 1200 range, I have stealth on demand with lb or blast in shadow field still,

you can use WHAO and see absolutely zero difference

which makes the troll unguent claim even more absurd.It's ridiculous to suggest that core ranger nerfs would fix druid issue,

yes ofc being druid a ranger elite, you can expect it to be affected somehow if you nerf the ranger....1+1=2

, but the nerfs suggested by these "pro" rangers would do nothing to reduce druid ability to reset fights at will and instead will greatly affect already underperforming and future specs

You exercise your lack of intelligence and understanding of the class, balance, and game design every time you speak.

You talk about intelligence when you have nothing but this self-styled game design certificate to back up your "balance" claims; which triple A MMO did you launch again?

jcbroe.4329 · February 10, 2018

@Arheundel.6451 said:
@jcbroe.4329 said:
@Arheundel.6451 said:
@Dragonzhunter.8506 said:
@EnderzShadow.2506 said:
@jcbroe.4329 said:Nobody here is asking for nerfs. We're just not dumb enough to think that's a matter of choice, when the reality is that's it's only a matter of time before we're the target for nerfs.

Always respect your opinion

need I remind you or anyone else here, that it wasn't that long ago when this bit of regen your talking about could not compete with the destruction and overpowered damage we faced...or that as soon as we entered form, we were blown up with condis.

and now what, we deserve a nerf because a few very overpowered classes got tuned?

Cause look, here's what is going to happen, other classes will become stronger again and that will make this cf regen and regen absolutely insignificant.

Also, there are still counters to druid.condi thiefpewpew thiefengineer with all their knockdowns is ridiculousGood burn guards (still a thing)

You forgot about our worst enemy ... MESMER! they said they fixed/nerfed Mesemer ... Is not true .... Mesmer it is still too OP , even we talk about condi or power one. The fact they change some confusion to torment didn't mean nothing ... Mesmer still can do super huge damage and still has 10000 skills for defence + 1000 invisibility/clones/teleportation etc . This is stupid! I want to see all these rangers who are crying to nerf Druid, going on mesmers forum and ask there for nerf the Mesmer.I am tired to see every week a new post on ranger forum about how to nerf Druid. If I was a moderator I deleted every post from Ranger Forum who ask to nerf this class.

The ones you should be wary of are the same ones, you lot seem to hold in high esteem :

-nerf signet of stone-nerf rugged growth-nerf troll unguent

Anybody with even the min understanding of ranger knows that nerfs like that would do less than zero to address druid balance issues, they're completely irrelevant and the non-sense spouted to justify such nerfs, it's absolutely maddening

-Reduce access to CA?-Easier to counter?

What crap is that? I have a freaking staff with an evasion/dash skill on 1200 range, I have stealth on demand with lb or blast in shadow field still,

you can use WHAO and see absolutely zero difference

which makes the troll unguent claim even more absurd.It's ridiculous to suggest that core ranger nerfs would fix druid issue,

yes ofc being druid a ranger elite, you can expect it to be affected somehow if you nerf the ranger....1+1=2

, but the nerfs suggested by these "pro" rangers would do nothing to reduce druid ability to reset fights at will and instead will greatly affect already underperforming and future specs

You exercise your lack of intelligence and understanding of the class, balance, and game design every time you speak.

You talk about intelligence when you have nothing but this self-styled game design certificate to back up your "balance" claims; which triple A MMO did you launch again?

They have nothing to do with each other, and you prove my point every time you post something.

Arheundel.6451 · February 10, 2018

@jcbroe.4329 said:
@Arheundel.6451 said:
@jcbroe.4329 said:
@Arheundel.6451 said:
@Dragonzhunter.8506 said:
@EnderzShadow.2506 said:
@jcbroe.4329 said:Nobody here is asking for nerfs. We're just not dumb enough to think that's a matter of choice, when the reality is that's it's only a matter of time before we're the target for nerfs.

Always respect your opinion

need I remind you or anyone else here, that it wasn't that long ago when this bit of regen your talking about could not compete with the destruction and overpowered damage we faced...or that as soon as we entered form, we were blown up with condis.

and now what, we deserve a nerf because a few very overpowered classes got tuned?

Cause look, here's what is going to happen, other classes will become stronger again and that will make this cf regen and regen absolutely insignificant.

Also, there are still counters to druid.condi thiefpewpew thiefengineer with all their knockdowns is ridiculousGood burn guards (still a thing)

You forgot about our worst enemy ... MESMER! they said they fixed/nerfed Mesemer ... Is not true .... Mesmer it is still too OP , even we talk about condi or power one. The fact they change some confusion to torment didn't mean nothing ... Mesmer still can do super huge damage and still has 10000 skills for defence + 1000 invisibility/clones/teleportation etc . This is stupid! I want to see all these rangers who are crying to nerf Druid, going on mesmers forum and ask there for nerf the Mesmer.I am tired to see every week a new post on ranger forum about how to nerf Druid. If I was a moderator I deleted every post from Ranger Forum who ask to nerf this class.

The ones you should be wary of are the same ones, you lot seem to hold in high esteem :

-nerf signet of stone-nerf rugged growth-nerf troll unguent

Anybody with even the min understanding of ranger knows that nerfs like that would do less than zero to address druid balance issues, they're completely irrelevant and the non-sense spouted to justify such nerfs, it's absolutely maddening

-Reduce access to CA?-Easier to counter?

What crap is that? I have a freaking staff with an evasion/dash skill on 1200 range, I have stealth on demand with lb or blast in shadow field still,

you can use WHAO and see absolutely zero difference

which makes the troll unguent claim even more absurd.It's ridiculous to suggest that core ranger nerfs would fix druid issue,

yes ofc being druid a ranger elite, you can expect it to be affected somehow if you nerf the ranger....1+1=2

, but the nerfs suggested by these "pro" rangers would do nothing to reduce druid ability to reset fights at will and instead will greatly affect already underperforming and future specs

You exercise your lack of intelligence and understanding of the class, balance, and game design every time you speak.

You talk about intelligence when you have nothing but this self-styled game design certificate to back up your "balance" claims; which triple A MMO did you launch again?

They have nothing to do with each other, and you prove my point every time you post something.

I take it as "NONE"....hmm..the amount of verbal abuse is more and more noticeable.....

jcbroe.4329 · February 10, 2018

@Arheundel.6451 said:
@jcbroe.4329 said:
@Arheundel.6451 said:
@jcbroe.4329 said:
@Arheundel.6451 said:
@Dragonzhunter.8506 said:
@EnderzShadow.2506 said:
@jcbroe.4329 said:Nobody here is asking for nerfs. We're just not dumb enough to think that's a matter of choice, when the reality is that's it's only a matter of time before we're the target for nerfs.

Always respect your opinion

need I remind you or anyone else here, that it wasn't that long ago when this bit of regen your talking about could not compete with the destruction and overpowered damage we faced...or that as soon as we entered form, we were blown up with condis.

and now what, we deserve a nerf because a few very overpowered classes got tuned?

Cause look, here's what is going to happen, other classes will become stronger again and that will make this cf regen and regen absolutely insignificant.

Also, there are still counters to druid.condi thiefpewpew thiefengineer with all their knockdowns is ridiculousGood burn guards (still a thing)

You forgot about our worst enemy ... MESMER! they said they fixed/nerfed Mesemer ... Is not true .... Mesmer it is still too OP , even we talk about condi or power one. The fact they change some confusion to torment didn't mean nothing ... Mesmer still can do super huge damage and still has 10000 skills for defence + 1000 invisibility/clones/teleportation etc . This is stupid! I want to see all these rangers who are crying to nerf Druid, going on mesmers forum and ask there for nerf the Mesmer.I am tired to see every week a new post on ranger forum about how to nerf Druid. If I was a moderator I deleted every post from Ranger Forum who ask to nerf this class.

The ones you should be wary of are the same ones, you lot seem to hold in high esteem :

-nerf signet of stone-nerf rugged growth-nerf troll unguent

Anybody with even the min understanding of ranger knows that nerfs like that would do less than zero to address druid balance issues, they're completely irrelevant and the non-sense spouted to justify such nerfs, it's absolutely maddening

-Reduce access to CA?-Easier to counter?

What crap is that? I have a freaking staff with an evasion/dash skill on 1200 range, I have stealth on demand with lb or blast in shadow field still,

you can use WHAO and see absolutely zero difference

which makes the troll unguent claim even more absurd.It's ridiculous to suggest that core ranger nerfs would fix druid issue,

yes ofc being druid a ranger elite, you can expect it to be affected somehow if you nerf the ranger....1+1=2

, but the nerfs suggested by these "pro" rangers would do nothing to reduce druid ability to reset fights at will and instead will greatly affect already underperforming and future specs

You exercise your lack of intelligence and understanding of the class, balance, and game design every time you speak.

You talk about intelligence when you have nothing but this self-styled game design certificate to back up your "balance" claims; which triple A MMO did you launch again?

They have nothing to do with each other, and you prove my point every time you post something.

I take it as "NONE".....so from where this game designing knowledge of your come from again?

My degree in Computer Science and Game Development. It's not my career, but it's my education.

How about you, where's your gameplay qualifications or education qualifications? I even posted some video footage for you so that there's some basis of understanding that I know my class and know what I'm talking about.

But other than trolling me and derailing topics, is there anything you can actually contribute to any topic? Or is all you can do dismiss other people and cry very loudly?

Arheundel.6451 · February 10, 2018

I have a question for you : so we assume your suggestions are the actual nerfs ranger get next patch...so why people should opt for a soulbeast over a druid? The first still lack the same levels of disengage of druid and still nobody can explain why a spec designed for team support...has more escape and self-sustain than a dps elite

Dragonzhunter.8506 · February 10, 2018

@Arheundel.6451 and @jcbroe.4329 , guys, please stop fighting each other , here we talk about of rangers, opinions about the game, class ... you don't must to talk rude each other.Let's focus on the game problems ...

jcbroe.4329 · February 10, 2018

@EnderzShadow.2506 said:
@"jcbroe.4329" said:Nobody here is asking for nerfs. We're just not dumb enough to think that's a matter of choice, when the reality is that's it's only a matter of time before we're the target for nerfs.

Always respect your opinion

need I remind you or anyone else here, that it wasn't that long ago when this bit of regen your talking about could not compete with the destruction and overpowered damage we faced...or that as soon as we entered form, we were blown up with condis.

and now what, we deserve a nerf because a few very overpowered classes got tuned?

Cause look, here's what is going to happen, other classes will become stronger again and that will make this cf regen and regen absolutely insignificant.

Also, there are still counters to druid.condi thiefpewpew thiefengineer with all their knockdowns is ridiculousGood burn guards (still a thing)

I understand how you feel, but my reasoning doesn't even really come from the rest of where the balance is for other classes.

Really, my biggest driving point is that one build setup has been vastly out performing all the rest of the options available to us, and that's because, on top of eating nerfs that in retrospect were pointless since they were intended to address exactly what the issue the current metabuild now has, the few buffs we received work with the Druid spec to put that combination WAY over the top compared to any other thing Druid can run.

Now, would I start with the changes I suggested if I was in charge? No. I'd start by removing the PvP shout nerf we received that reduced the Regen down to 4 seconds so that it would be the same as it is in WvW, and then I'd remove Live Vicariously on the Druid line and move Lingering Light to the GM minor and move the GM minor down to replace Live Vicariously.

Then I'd use the new GM slot to throw in this GM: "Fields you blast now remove 1 condition with AoE radius. The detonation from Seed of Light is now a blast finisher." I'd then take the Staff trait and make it activate Lesser Glyph of Equality on weaponswap (not just weaponswap to staff), which would be Glyph of Equality minus the stunbreak.

In list form:

Unsplit Resounding Timbre, removed the PvP only version.
Removed Live Vicariously, replaced with Natural Mender.
Moved Lingering Light to GM minor slot.
New GM: Fields you blast now remove 1 condition AoE. The detonation for Seed of Light is a blast finisher (this blasts itself).
Primal Echoes now drops Lesser Glyph of Equality, and activates on every weaponswap.

I think that this short list would increase build diversity to the point where there wouldn't be an apex predator build anymore.

Now, would it solve people thinking Druid is too strong? Probably not. That's the only reason I keep doing this though, I don't want the class to be nerfed, but I know it's going to be, and I'd much rather the suggestions come from threads like these where people understand the class and would preserve the components of it that make it usable than from people who go "see strong trait, nerf strong trait."

There's nothing wrong with things being strong. Every class has something ridiculously strong, like Adrenal Health or Chronophantasma, that are in line because of how frequently those effects can occur. Druid shouldn't have to have it's whole traitline ripped away from it just because 1 build can abuse access to CA.

jcbroe.4329 · February 10, 2018

@Arheundel.6451 I am apologizing to you and removing my unsavory comment.

I do not know how to make you understand that I have no intention of reducing the power level of core Ranger when you don't understand that my suggestions don't hurt the class.

We may not agree, but please understand that I do not want to make any changes that would leave the class worse off that it was, whether it's core, Druid, or Soulbeast, even if because you don't understand the intent of my suggestions, you disagree with me.

I can promise you that you'd be much happier with me making changes to the class than the general public, even if you don't believe that.

What I think would be healthier for discussion between the 2 of us moving forward is to accept our difference of opinions on this topic and look to instead address what we should have been discussing this whole time since in my mind it should be the balance/design teams most pressing issue; the underpowered state of Soulbeast.

Deal?

kappa.2036 · February 10, 2018

@"Eleazar.9478" said:Due to condis being nerfed druid is a king of points.
What I think is making druid too sustainy is the the rugged growth change, as right now a druid can have near perma protection and have rugged growth scale past 600 per tic which is our old troll ungent.
This problem is two fold
1 the protection up time negates damage and with the Regen completely negates dps (evade and boom your regening your health)
2 all of the passive regen recharges cele avater with little effort.
My "fix"
1) Increase the base rugged growth to 360 and greatly decrease it's scaleing with healing power, in order for the trait to actually help dps builds while preventing it from scaleing so high with menders
2) Change the values on cele Regen. Make it recharge more for doing damage, outgoing healing (edit*)and recharge less for self healing. This would encourage more active game play forceing the druid to stay in the fight, instead just kiting around while you or your pet takes damage and gives you free celestial form.

1) 360 base healing power on rugged growth with less healing power scaling? Let's say we will get...450hp/s with mender amulet, then. Less 100-150 hp/s is your fix? Good change, but nothing noticeable.

2) I think this will push druid to Staff/WS/NM even more since spamming staff11111111 will be mandatory to get enough astral force within the 15 seconds. Also this change will make Dolyak runes almost useless, which i dunno if it's a good thing.

Eleazar.9478 · February 10, 2018

@kappa.2036 said:
@"Eleazar.9478" said:Due to condis being nerfed druid is a king of points.
What I think is making druid too sustainy is the the rugged growth change, as right now a druid can have near perma protection and have rugged growth scale past 600 per tic which is our old troll ungent.
This problem is two fold
1 the protection up time negates damage and with the Regen completely negates dps (evade and boom your regening your health)
2 all of the passive regen recharges cele avater with little effort.
My "fix"
1) Increase the base rugged growth to 360 and greatly decrease it's scaleing with healing power, in order for the trait to actually help dps builds while preventing it from scaleing so high with menders
2) Change the values on cele Regen. Make it recharge more for doing damage, outgoing healing (edit*)and recharge less for self healing. This would encourage more active game play forceing the druid to stay in the fight, instead just kiting around while you or your pet takes damage and gives you free celestial form.

1) 360 base healing power on rugged growth with less healing power scaling? Let's say we will get...450hp/s with mender amulet, then. Less 100-150 hp/s is your fix? Good change, but nothing noticeable.

2) I think this will push druid to Staff/WS/NM even more since spamming staff11111111 will be mandatory to get enough astral force within the 15 seconds. Also this change will make Dolyak runes almost useless, which i dunno if it's a good thing.

Thanks for a solid feedback, and I can see your point I'm trying to think of a way around that with staff, but after thinking about it I have to say that already happens, this would actually be a buff when you use any other ranger weapons though, I'm thinking like it would make warhorn 4 very nice for regening celeform.

Hmmm I'm just trying to think of ways to encourage druids to be more active without destroying the class. Feel free to suggest.

Durzlla.6295 · February 10, 2018

@jcbroe.4329 said:
@EnderzShadow.2506 said:
@jcbroe.4329 said:Nobody here is asking for nerfs. We're just not dumb enough to think that's a matter of choice, when the reality is that's it's only a matter of time before we're the target for nerfs.