Defy Pain, soon 90sec, but do they undo the nerf from 4 to 2sec in PVP?

Some time ago, they changed Defy pain from 4sec duration to 2sec duration.(while still having a 60sec cooldown)

Now they are planning to increase its cooldown to 90sec. fine i get it.But do you revert the 2sec back to 4sec also?

If not, atleast buff the other traits in this Masterline, because we dont have any other good options..A terrible mace trait, like really terribleAnd a stupid 10% toughness to power trait (wich often is around 5% dmg increase.. woooooow!! soo good)

I think they will just kill spellbreaker after all the crying babies complain about it because they keep attacking into full counter, now it was a very balanced spec overall, so I doubt.

This next update will be a the end for the passive traits, probably not worth using them anymore.

Good thing pretty much all classes got those nerfs so we will seehow it will turn out.

Many other classes are getting nerf as well, the nerf will kill warrior or not, we will just see, the patch hasn't even hit us yet.

No. Its called further killing warrior sustain which is too good in spvp.

IMO yes do it to the auto Defy Pain trait, the game needs less of the auto proc traits. But the actual skill you have to bring and actually hit the button shouldn't be nerfed into the ground that hard.

Warrior sustain in general needs to be toned down. This will help a little. One thing will still remain however. Crazy heals that can come out from their traits.Example, warriors can reach very high levels of heal using adrenal health, heal signet, might makes right, etc (I think there are a few others, will need to research it). High enough levels that they can take low defense amulets and gear like berserker's and still function as a tanky damage dealer. I don't say bruiser because they don't bruise, they decimate. Toning down the healing received from some of these traits and skills would help keep a balance, and put the warrior more in line with a bruiser if they run that sort of set up, or a burster if, again, they run that sort of set up.

@Ghos.1326 said:Warrior sustain in general needs to be toned down. This will help a little. One thing will still remain however. Crazy heals that can come out from their traits.Example, warriors can reach very high levels of heal using adrenal health, heal signet, might makes right, etc (I think there are a few others, will need to research it). High enough levels that they can take low defense amulets and gear like berserker's and still function as a tanky damage dealer. I don't say bruiser because they don't bruise, they decimate. Toning down the healing received from some of these traits and skills would help keep a balance, and put the warrior more in line with a bruiser if they run that sort of set up, or a burster if, again, they run that sort of set up.

I'd say that if you tone those down or get rid of them that you'd have to get rid of any blinks, or stealth mechanics. I honestly have trouble hitting those jumpy classes which effects 2/3 of the things you mention. There are other classes that have higher sustain than warrior and hit just as hard. Stop trying to make warrior a free kill just because you don't like them.

@Red Haired Savage.5430 said:

@"Ghos.1326" said:Warrior sustain in general needs to be toned down. This will help a little. One thing will still remain however. Crazy heals that can come out from their traits.Example, warriors can reach very high levels of heal using adrenal health, heal signet, might makes right, etc (I think there are a few others, will need to research it). High enough levels that they can take low defense amulets and gear like berserker's and still function as a tanky damage dealer. I don't say bruiser because they don't bruise, they decimate. Toning down the healing received from some of these traits and skills would help keep a balance, and put the warrior more in line with a bruiser if they run that sort of set up, or a burster if, again, they run that sort of set up.

^Pretty much what Red Haired Savage.5430 said. Warriors got those things with a reason. Do recall how Warriors sustain was before we got the buffed healing signet and adrenal health. Our sustain was non-existent. Other classes have way more active tools to sustain themselves, we do not, unfortunately. People can complain about FC as much as they want, but it's really the only thing that lets me fight cheese such as Scourges and Mirages nowadays.

If you're gonna tone down warrior's sustain and FC, then tone down just about any other class with it. And just FYI, FC is hard enough to land against people that know what they're doing and don't just faceroll the keyboard in a duel/small scale fight. I really have to fuck up hard to get hit by another warrior's FC unless he's great at using it and surprises me in what I intended to be my 100% sure burst.

I find it hard to play against some classes as well, but I don't go around Forums and QQ "Nerf this, nerf that". I rather think on how I could improve my game play to beat that player/class next time. If people worked as hard on improving their game play as they do on QQing about what's OP every time they get beaten by something, this game would be much better off.

@"Ghos.1326" said:

but not unkillable unless "x" profession fights them.

I actually like hard counters. It's easier to balance and promotes teamwork. If you can't handle an enemy maybe a teammate is better suited for them while you go beat up the ones your teammate is helpless against.

@Jinn Galen.2468 said:

@"Ghos.1326" said:

but not unkillable unless "x" profession fights them.

i'm all for hard counters as well, depending on build choice, so I agree with you.

meanwhile ranger signet of stone.

@Ghos.1326 said:Warrior sustain in general needs to be toned down. This will help a little. One thing will still remain however. Crazy heals that can come out from their traits.Example, warriors can reach very high levels of heal using adrenal health, heal signet, might makes right, etc (I think there are a few others, will need to research it). High enough levels that they can take low defense amulets and gear like berserker's and still function as a tanky damage dealer. I don't say bruiser because they don't bruise, they decimate. Toning down the healing received from some of these traits and skills would help keep a balance, and put the warrior more in line with a bruiser if they run that sort of set up, or a burster if, again, they run that sort of set up.

warrior needs the sustain because we dont have tools to blink, stealth, real invuln (endure pain is none), safestomp, have you ever played warrior vs opponents that know what they are doing? its so hard to keep adrenal health up, when your opponent dodges all if your obvious bursts, and 300hp a second, thats a joke when you think about the fact that 3k autohits are pretty standart so one 3k hit needs 10s to be recovered, and 10seconds is a pretty long time

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:Warrior sustain in general needs to be toned down. This will help a little. One thing will still remain however. Crazy heals that can come out from their traits.Example, warriors can reach very high levels of heal using adrenal health, heal signet, might makes right, etc (I think there are a few others, will need to research it). High enough levels that they can take low defense amulets and gear like berserker's and still function as a tanky damage dealer. I don't say bruiser because they don't bruise, they decimate. Toning down the healing received from some of these traits and skills would help keep a balance, and put the warrior more in line with a bruiser if they run that sort of set up, or a burster if, again, they run that sort of set up.

Not to mention that allot of fights can be over in 10-15 seconds, if something goes wrong(you miss a block, miss your full counter, miss your burst, or the enemy stealth's and resets the fight).

Anet doesn't play their own game, explaining how it works doesn't seem to ever help either. They have testers that basically tell Anet what they want to hear, and when concerns are brought up they're never listened to either.

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:Warrior sustain in general needs to be toned down. This will help a little. One thing will still remain however. Crazy heals that can come out from their traits.Example, warriors can reach very high levels of heal using adrenal health, heal signet, might makes right, etc (I think there are a few others, will need to research it). High enough levels that they can take low defense amulets and gear like berserker's and still function as a tanky damage dealer. I don't say bruiser because they don't bruise, they decimate. Toning down the healing received from some of these traits and skills would help keep a balance, and put the warrior more in line with a bruiser if they run that sort of set up, or a burster if, again, they run that sort of set up.

yes, i've played warrior with players who knew what they were doing. Hence my feedback. any other questions?

@Warlord.9074 said:meanwhile ranger signet of stone....nerfed to 3 seconds.

@KrHome.1920Meanwhile on the skill split they will be reducing the CD on signet of stone, and it lasts for 1 extra second than endure pain:

Ranger

Skills

• Signet of Stone: Reduced the duration from 6 seconds to 3 seconds in PvP and WvW. Reduced the cooldown from 80 seconds to 40 in PvP and WvW

@Ghos.1326 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:Warrior sustain in general needs to be toned down. This will help a little. One thing will still remain however. Crazy heals that can come out from their traits.Example, warriors can reach very high levels of heal using adrenal health, heal signet, might makes right, etc (I think there are a few others, will need to research it). High enough levels that they can take low defense amulets and gear like berserker's and still function as a tanky damage dealer. I don't say bruiser because they don't bruise, they decimate. Toning down the healing received from some of these traits and skills would help keep a balance, and put the warrior more in line with a bruiser if they run that sort of set up, or a burster if, again, they run that sort of set up.

ive not just asked that question, you made no points toward my arguments why the sustain is not as good as some ppl believe it to be

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:Warrior sustain in general needs to be toned down. This will help a little. One thing will still remain however. Crazy heals that can come out from their traits.Example, warriors can reach very high levels of heal using adrenal health, heal signet, might makes right, etc (I think there are a few others, will need to research it). High enough levels that they can take low defense amulets and gear like berserker's and still function as a tanky damage dealer. I don't say bruiser because they don't bruise, they decimate. Toning down the healing received from some of these traits and skills would help keep a balance, and put the warrior more in line with a bruiser if they run that sort of set up, or a burster if, again, they run that sort of set up.

Adrenal health does not need a target to hit in order to proc. The current meta build uses many tools to keep adrenaline up to levels sufficient enough to either use full counter frequently, or their burst skills frequently. Mind you, if I am not mistaken, full counter also counts as a "burst" skill, and also procs adrenal health. Said adrenal health lasts 15 seconds, and within those 15 seconds, you recover 2005 health. This effect can also stack. You're almost guaranteed to keep at least 2-3 stacks on you throughout your fight.Healing signet passively heals your damage up by 300 or more health per second, and that's without needing to use healing power stats. I calculated the heal from adrenal health to heal around 133 health every 1 second. The math done to get this number was quiet simple. Now, multiply that by 3. Add that quotient to the other 300 health and you should have around 700 or more health every second that the warrior can pump out as self healing. Not sure if you understand what that is, so I will put that in perspective for you. 300 health healing is around 1-2% per second of health. this is doubled, sometimes reaching 5% due to the number healed being 700+, so healing up 5% per second while in a fight is massive. Consider attacks do around 800 damage, depending on gear. Warriors have high health and high defense (high defense due to heavy armor class, which is fine). Also keep in mind, players are not going to stand there and let you hit them, nor are you going to stand there and let them hit you. Take into consideration that warriors have great battle pressure, decent damages (which they should as SB), and invulns/blocks at the ready on fairly decent cooldowns. Each of these things can grant the warrior periods of time where the enemy can NOT HARM YOU, nor will find it suitable to continue attacking you. There is also the evade frames from GS3 that can help get you out of battle, giving you enough time to passively heal up enough hp to hop back into the fight and start all over again. It's one main reason why so many warriors can jump into zerge of 2-3 in pvp, and more in wvw and come out as the victors.Warriors do need many of these things to be viable bruisers. Again I am not saying gut them. But when you can literally not do much in terms of counter pressure unless you're another warrior or druid, it's a little questionable, especially when running a similar bruiser build with another profession. Also, because of all of this, the warrior can run a berserker amulet and survive just as well as he can if he ran an amulet like paladin's, or demolisher's.Which is why I said before, cut down some of the healing values, and have them scale to better numbers with an amulet that brings in healing power. Part of the problem is, you can't really pressure a warrior unless you're another warrior, a druid (druids are much worse when it comes to counterplay), or you heavily outnumber the warrior. Bruiser builds are bruiser builds. NOT bunker builds, nor should they be bunker builds.

@Ghos.1326 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:Warrior sustain in general needs to be toned down. This will help a little. One thing will still remain however. Crazy heals that can come out from their traits.Example, warriors can reach very high levels of heal using adrenal health, heal signet, might makes right, etc (I think there are a few others, will need to research it). High enough levels that they can take low defense amulets and gear like berserker's and still function as a tanky damage dealer. I don't say bruiser because they don't bruise, they decimate. Toning down the healing received from some of these traits and skills would help keep a balance, and put the warrior more in line with a bruiser if they run that sort of set up, or a burster if, again, they run that sort of set up.

Adrenal health does required to hit in order to trigger, it means only longbow can trigger it without a target. Longbow is out of meta for years in warrior build.

FC required an enemy to trigger adrenal health, which it is harder to happen when fighting a skilled foe. It is also court as level 1 adrenal health only. Require adrenal, enemy to spam skill on you and with a CD, it is not as easy as you claimed to maintain full adrenal health unless fighting a low skill player.

Warrior especially melee oriented must remain high damage pressure as it is what the class is meant to do. A melee class without stealth, teleport, permanent evade, damage pressure and high hp regen is the only way for him to stay competitive. Don’t forget taking healing signet means giving up burst heal, kite a warrior and sustain your damage is the right way to deal with a warrior, it is a thing since launch, you don’t know about it?

@Crossaber.8934 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:Warrior sustain in general needs to be toned down. This will help a little. One thing will still remain however. Crazy heals that can come out from their traits.Example, warriors can reach very high levels of heal using adrenal health, heal signet, might makes right, etc (I think there are a few others, will need to research it). High enough levels that they can take low defense amulets and gear like berserker's and still function as a tanky damage dealer. I don't say bruiser because they don't bruise, they decimate. Toning down the healing received from some of these traits and skills would help keep a balance, and put the warrior more in line with a bruiser if they run that sort of set up, or a burster if, again, they run that sort of set up.

Not what the wiki says, nor what it does when I play warrior so yeah. I can usually trigger it without hitting anything. While I'm disengaging a fight, I use dagger burst skill to distance myself as well as pick up the heal. So not sure if your instance is bugged, or mine. I'll look into it a little later.

@Ghos.1326 said:

@Crossaber.8934 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:Warrior sustain in general needs to be toned down. This will help a little. One thing will still remain however. Crazy heals that can come out from their traits.Example, warriors can reach very high levels of heal using adrenal health, heal signet, might makes right, etc (I think there are a few others, will need to research it). High enough levels that they can take low defense amulets and gear like berserker's and still function as a tanky damage dealer. I don't say bruiser because they don't bruise, they decimate. Toning down the healing received from some of these traits and skills would help keep a balance, and put the warrior more in line with a bruiser if they run that sort of set up, or a burster if, again, they run that sort of set up.

dude i play warrior since release and not hitting a target wont count to any trait that requires to use adrenalin like adrenal health or cleansing ire, except longbow burst, also poison hurts that sustain a ton and you will still get hit and hurt by conditions so stop refering to endure pain as invulns, and yes in zerg fights you keep adrenal health easier up since more ppl and harder to dodge stufg etcand why are you assuming 800dmg hits?? no one who roams or duells dishes out such small numbers

also get off your high horse, talking like you are better or smarter than those around you

Can confirm you do not gain adrenal health if you just use a burst skill and don't hit anything.

I'm also on the side of needing to hit before triggering adrenal health. That's how it always worked for me and that's why I don't see why it should be nerfed especially since I play core warrior.

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:

@Crossaber.8934 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:Warrior sustain in general needs to be toned down. This will help a little. One thing will still remain however. Crazy heals that can come out from their traits.Example, warriors can reach very high levels of heal using adrenal health, heal signet, might makes right, etc (I think there are a few others, will need to research it). High enough levels that they can take low defense amulets and gear like berserker's and still function as a tanky damage dealer. I don't say bruiser because they don't bruise, they decimate. Toning down the healing received from some of these traits and skills would help keep a balance, and put the warrior more in line with a bruiser if they run that sort of set up, or a burster if, again, they run that sort of set up.

The only one talking like that is you man. too much salt, let that loose bro.