The Best Solution To Virtually Annihilate Lag

There is one thing that can reduce all the lag in WvW.

UPDATES!

Anet have continued to make WvW a zerg mode.They need to update WvW so that it requires more small team features, tasks, events etc.They need to split the zerg by force. SO much so that being in a zerg will produce a big disadvantage.They need to concentrate on improving the game made, rather than QoL they have done in the past and continue to do now whenever they can be bothered.

Or reduce the aoe/cleave spam overall, wich IMO it feels they have been increasing while blamming on the server structure stuff itself, while m8 be a problem of the game engine and how the client <-> server relationship behaves dealing with such spam.

I like one thing ur talking in there Apples, "They need to split the zerg by force. " wich means introduce new mechanics to the WvW itself, ther gameplay is basicly full stack build 10-15 catas and melt structures (wich i believe Anet is ok with this), only way to counter is with a full stacked zerg.

But for those changes to happen, map design, stuctures need to be less gimmick, game needs to have importance on the "why alliance wants that stucture" as well.It is all about non gimmick mechanics wich Anet proven themselves they are unable to deliver.

WvW IMO needs to envolve to something more than it was initially designed, question is does Anet agrees with that and do they know what to do?I have my doubts.

Still, one thing for sure, any kind of changes and improvements to WvW in future need to be done only after the alliance stuff hits.

Maybe an actual idea of the number of people as a percentile who have significant lag before taking such steps.

The whole point of WvW is zerg. Roaming and havoc is more akin to pvp (which already exist). The massive, all-encompassing fights is what sets it apart.

There have been suggestions across the board to punish zerg or large group play since the first year. They didn't do anything then, and they won't do it now. Part of the reason is, players go into WvW specifically for fighting or large group fights and could care less about capturing objectives. That means it won't matter what small tasks, features, or events occur, I suspect most players will ignore them, more-so those that are looking for fights would simply run over the small event seekers with a larger group.

They just need to get us servers that can perform better. Or we just need better computers and ISP.

You never, ever improve a video game by punishing players for what they have shown the developers is their preferred behavior. The devs create the world, but the players shape the gameplay.

The point of WvW is large scale combat divided across the entire map.One battle here, a second there, a third over there etc.Not large scale combat concentrated in a single point.

The zerg is not the preferred behaviour of players, it's the behaviour which anet have enforced players to take on.It is also the behaviour of unskilled players who rely on numbers instead of skill.Anet has made the unskilled zerg meta the only option for players to use to win.

A group of skilled players with a balanced group cannot take on a group of unskilled players using the unbalanced, OP condi ridden meta.

WvW is now all about being able to out-condi the enemy zerg; no skill just spamming of condi skills.

@"Buy Some Apples.6390" said:The point of WvW is large scale combat divided across the entire map.One battle here, a second there, a third over there etc.Not large scale combat concentrated in a single point.

The zerg is not the preferred behaviour of players, it's the behaviour which anet have enforced players to take on.It is also the behaviour of unskilled players who rely on numbers instead of skill.Anet has made the unskilled zerg meta the only option for players to use to win.

A group of skilled players with a balanced group cannot take on a group of unskilled players using the unbalanced, OP condi ridden meta.

WvW is now all about being able to out-condi the enemy zerg; no skill just spamming of condi skills.

This statement is what I was mostly responding to;

"They need to split the zerg by force. SO much so that being in a zerg will produce a big disadvantage."

My point still stands. Punishing people doesn't work.

Your response post above is mostly statements of opinion. Banding together in small groups and defending and upgrading structures, maintaining supply lines, and preserving your points per tick is a much better way to win than zerging. But people don't do it. Because zerging is more fun, given the current set up.

If they want people to stop running around smashing into each other in blobs, which is what a significant portion of the population finds fun, they are not going to do it by punishing people for doing it. Punishing people for zerging is not going to make standing around in a tower building arrow carts and waiting for an invader to drop by any more exciting. The gruntwork of wvw is dull as hell, so people zerg for action. Penalizing people for zerging doesn't make sense.

@"diamondgirl.6315" said:You never, ever improve a video game by punishing players for what they have shown the developers is their preferred behavior. The devs create the world, but the players shape the gameplay.

That is a bad thing to say and a bad ideal to improve a game, that's simple and excuse to let the bad design flow normally, that is why gw2 is a bad pvp game, still it is good for casuals.

When u give to much to players to cut the effort and make the game "dumber"/simplier to please casual, it will result in a game that gets out of control, and everything dev's to to try to balance will be seen as punishing players, well in first place because something ha da bad design to start with....

Still that would work if Anet knew how to design decent classes w/o being forcedbly tied to heavy gimmicks...but they dont or choose not to get out of the basic gameplay that gimmick is , reason that ideal of punishing players dont aply well in this game since they will end punishing players due how they design classes to behave.The classes progression ended being a excuse to add more stuff to the classes from expantion to expantion, so they will always be forced to punish players compared the new elite trait release overperformance, due its bad design forced by the gimmick gameplay design this game has.

This affects players limitation to pick up builds, wich affects gameplay, and force players as well to 1 best option to play and try to leech due how everything ends convergin in 1 gimmick gameplay only, wich ends in zerg mostly.

So splitting a zerg is not punishing a zerg but create another way to play, problem is players that want zerg to insta cap everything, drop 10-15catas + shield gend and bomb that wall in less than 50sec they are on inner on a t3... even with defenders due how PUNISHING defense is.Dividing the zerg would be a better experience for both defenders and atackers, so it cannot be seen as a punishive thing, you cant see if from your perspective only, but see the gameplay overall.

But that is a bit harder i imagine to fix, since the stuctures are just mend to be ktrained by default, structures need to be desirable to create gameplay, rather than being the ktrain vs cap back to create gameplay.

./sorry about the bad english or if it sounded a bit confuse to read :astonished:

What are you going to do about the lack of commanders to run these extra groups? they don't exactly grow off trees, nevermind ones good enough for people to trust to run behind.

@jacksmith.6028 said:The whole point of WvW is zerg. Roaming and havoc is more akin to pvp (which already exist). The massive, all-encompassing fights is what sets it apart.

There's a difference between Masive All-encompassing Fights and the blobs we have right now. To the point that people will concentrate on so small an area that it wouldn't even be physically possible in reality (and is actually detrimental).

Best way to fix WvW lag is make all skills limitless in targets. So if everyone in a Ele AoE is damaged by that AoE, people will quickly learn to keep a distance.

But OP is right, rewarding tactics as opposed to brainless brawls would definitely improve the quality and enjoyment of the content.

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@jacksmith.6028 said:The whole point of WvW is zerg. Roaming and havoc is more akin to pvp (which already exist). The massive, all-encompassing fights is what sets it apart.

As long as people continued to stay together, the amount of calculations necessary to do this would actually increase lag.

That being said, it would certainly be a way to split people up more.

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@jacksmith.6028 said:The whole point of WvW is zerg. Roaming and havoc is more akin to pvp (which already exist). The massive, all-encompassing fights is what sets it apart.

You're not wrong. But after a while it would work out, maybe.WvW was a good idea on paper, but it deteriorated to a mindless game. And the changes with the Objective Upgrades (mainly Watchtowers) worsened that, because it greatly reduced the need for scouts.

And in general commanders haven't got a lick of tactics in their brains. Hammering at the same point vs a strong objective instead of using feints and spreading out people to get an advantage. The best proof of this is how many people complain that defending is too strong (when it's actually broken and disadvantageous since GW2 came out) because they can't easily crack a T3 Keep when it has roughly the same number of defenders as you have attackers.

@"Aeolus.3615" said:That is a bad thing to say and a bad ideal to improve a game, that's simple and excuse to let the bad design flow normally, that is why gw2 is a bad pvp game, still it is good for casuals.

When u give to much to players to cut the effort and make the game "dumber"/simplier to please casual, it will result in a game that gets out of control, and everything dev's to to try to balance will be seen as punishing players, well in first place because something ha da bad design to start with....

I would argue that punishing the players for playing the way they find the most enjoyable within the framework they have been given IS terrible. I am not sure why you think it means encouraging bad design. I do think the mode needs help, heavy help, and I am eager to see what the restructuring brings. But you fix bad design by introducing good design that encourages different gameplay, not by looking at how players have adapted to bad design and punishing them. I would argue that if players are playing in a way that your design does not encourage, that means you need to change your design, not keep the existing design and make it harder for your players to find fun in it. It sounds like you thought I was saying kind of the opposite of what I was saying.

Also, refusing to hand out punishment updates does not equate to dumbing down or simplifying, I am not sure why you got that impression.

Your English is way better than my anything else. ♪♫

@diamondgirl.6315, tks for clarifying it :), still from HoT to PoF feels Anet does the oposite of what we are talking :(

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@jacksmith.6028 said:The whole point of WvW is zerg. Roaming and havoc is more akin to pvp (which already exist). The massive, all-encompassing fights is what sets it apart.

Honestly, if people used their heads, watchtowers actually benefit the artackers more.. people rely on it too much. And with feints, it could clearly be used to a servers advantage.

But again, that takes spreading out some, and hitting places on multiple BLs. But people have kind of lost that imagination.

@Buy Some Apples.6390 said:There is one thing that can reduce all the lag in WvW.

UPDATES!

Anet have continued to make WvW a zerg mode.They need to update WvW so that it requires more small team features, tasks, events etc.They need to split the zerg by force. SO much so that being in a zerg will produce a big disadvantage.They need to concentrate on improving the game made, rather than QoL they have done in the past and continue to do now whenever they can be bothered.

Just get a better PC, lag is over GG, WvW is meant for big scale fights, want smal man do PvP like a normal person

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@jacksmith.6028 said:The whole point of WvW is zerg. Roaming and havoc is more akin to pvp (which already exist). The massive, all-encompassing fights is what sets it apart.

@Aeolus.3615 said:@diamondgirl.6315, tks for clarifying it :), still from HoT to PoF feels Anet does the oposite of what we are talking :(

I agree, but they are doing this restructuring, so I have my fingers crossed. Let's see what happens.

@diamondgirl.6315 said:

@Aeolus.3615 said:@diamondgirl.6315, tks for clarifying it :), still from HoT to PoF feels Anet does the oposite of what we are talking :(

Well, ive been 5yers waiting them to fix SW on guard, they are still not working, shield SW dont even gets casted while on combat after a few usages, just consumes that ammo and does nothing, hamemr and sword(the range trap spirit weapon lol), are easilly kited, target dont even need to burn a dodge.

Shield SW was dammn good against the plesky scales pet druid, when u were on a mace shield with low mobility build, while u could focus on the druid, Anet had to kill it ofc...

If they cant even fix skills over this time..... Reason ic this changes more like a placebo than anything else, i guess they only care about aoe spam game nowadays :\ that is what the game ended enforcing on players..

@diamondgirl.6315 said:Your response post above is mostly statements of opinion. Banding together in small groups and defending and upgrading structures, maintaining supply lines, and >preserving your points per tick is a much better way to win than zerging. But people don't do it. Because zerging is more fun, given the current set up.

Let's be honest here though. Small groups might be better. Maintaining supplies and all of those things which I've had fun with in the past is well and good, but all it takes is for your matchup to change, and suddenly you find yourself against a server that does nothing but take their fun from rolling over smaller groups with thirty plus blobs and calling it 'skill' to ruin that fun.

This behaviour has its roots back in DAoC and there isn't any one good solution to it. Much of it had to do with stupid stealth classes. We used to have smaller groups doing things there before they were ambushed by assassin/archer classes roaming in packs. Blobs were purely defencive so that we even had a chance to make it to a keep before warning went out and the enemy realms showed up en masse. But this is only one half of the story. The other half came from incentivisation.

The truly cancerous blob play came after the periods in which realm points were introduced. This introduced not only a leader board for points scored by players but a post-fifty levelling system -realm abilities. That was when realms quit actively going after keeps as anything but a means of drawing large fights. Otherwise they ran around emain macha(the widest flattest terrain minus trees buildings or hills) in large blobs with drivers using radar. Small stealth blobs were still a thing and they hung out at mile gates but by then it was too late. Before this point, realm defence was absolutely a matter of pride for the respective realms. Realm hopping was impossible- you selected your faction when you made your first character on a respective server. Server transfers weren't a thing. You rolled a separate character on another server if you wanted to try another realm. Or, you deleted and rerolled.

Point of all this is that WvW is an even bigger mess than DAoC. There's going to be no servers so there's no realm pride to fight for. The only thing left to play for is score, whether that's for the associated wvw-centric abilities purchased through the system, or for the weapon/armour/accessory incentives. As long as you have those things around they'll be something to be ground out in the quickest amount of time.(emain macha) So long as there's a desire to do that you're going to have blob on blob play. Short of small groups gathering in out of the way maps and trading wipes(which happened in DAoC as well) Blob on blob is still the most efficient.

Will there be cheating and radar use by drivers still? Absolutely. Apart from a few high profile bannings in DAoC, mythic couldn't keep the cheaters down. Anet's gone one further by tacitly accepting most cheats and admitting they're incapable of catching the cheaters short of no clips, one thousand speed, and flyers. And an Anet employee has to witness this to do anything.

As such, WvW and PvP in GW2 have officially been consigned to zombie game modes. Devs have their part in it but the truth is it's mostly players who ruin good multiplayer games. The flip side is- if you enjoy it here you might as well stay. Camelot unchained isn't going to be the second coming- unless it's the second coming of cheaters. Jacobs couldn't solve these problems in DAoC and probably won't in CU. Not with his shoestring budget and not without a massive performance hit/lag.

This thread was about lag, seems to,be off topic now. I do not have any issue with lag no matter the number of players on map. My frame rate may drop a bit when zergs come in sight, but no lag during fights. I am aware it is not the same for everyone else.

Get better internet cause lag seems fine. Maybe it's just you. Most likely

@Buy Some Apples.6390 said:Anet have continued to make WvW a zerg mode.They need to update WvW so that it requires more small team features, tasks, events etc.They need to split the zerg by force. SO much so that being in a zerg will produce a big disadvantage.They need to concentrate on improving the game made, rather than QoL they have done in the past and continue to do now whenever they can be bothered.

Zerg splitting is never going to happen. People actually like playing in zergs. If you want small scale then go play sPvP.