Ritualist as a Class? Or Elite Spec? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Ritualist as a Class? Or Elite Spec?

Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

This has been a topic I've been thinking about for quite some time. Ritualist is one of if not the most requested Profession from GW1 to be made into an elite spec. Assassin being close. I'm not sure if its because of their overall popularity in GW1, rose tinted glasses or the bias much of the community has for Factions over other expansions, but it is very clear that many of us want to see the ritualist return in some form or another. I've been milling this about in my head for some time, trying to determine just how Viable Ritualist would be as its stand along profession as well as determine just which profession could make the best use of the ritualist's unique set of skills and themes. And I've come to a few conclusions.

Potential as a profession

I want to start here since most players haven't considered this as an option to my knowledge. So I want to pull this up first. I think the ritualist has some advantages and disadvantages as a profession in the design potential in GW1. For starters in terms of its Mechanics and how to best utilize them the Engineer does that job fairly well. If they were to get their own profession their design with the Urns, Spirits, Spirit weapons would all have fairly similar functionality to Engineer skills like turrets, Kits and Gyros. Although aesthetically they are quite different this really isn't a strong enough justification to make them a unique profession. They were a unique support class with Damage reduction, Spirit support and high raw healing. All things easily replicated by the engineer.

Thematically The Ritualist has other problems as well. And that problems comes in the form of the Necromancer who is everything the ritualist is and some. A Dark conjurer of undead horrors, vengeful spirits and otherworldly afflictions. All very much tied into the Necromancer's core design. The idea that the Ritualist does Rituals isn't unique to them either. Necromancer's have always done rituals and continues to do them. Even in the lore as priests of Grenth again necromancers had always taken up that mantle and now almost exclusively take that mantle on themselves. Guiding lost spirits, conjuring dark energies, summoning the dead, these are all aspects achieved by the necromancer. In its theme it really doesn't work all that well with that in consideration the idea of having 2 professions heavily focused on death it makes sense to just have the one.

With that said, the Ritualist also has the opportunity not to be locked into the same trappings as the engineer or the necromancer. It neither needs to be as complex as the engineer or as tied down by shroud like the necromancer. It can be built from the ground up as a true support class. Its urns used as its identity to conjure aspects of Protection, healing and damage. They could take on that role without the need of an elite spec. Unlike Engineer who's healing ability has a few strange kinks ritualist can just be that from the start.

As for play feel, no profession truly feels like the ritualist. Yes the Engineer mechanically is supposed to be its successor but the visual and auditory effects really does impact the player's sense of enjoyment of the class even if mechanically it might be identical to another. Some people in fighting games prefer fighting as the clone character as opposed to the original. And they might say it feels just different enough to increase their engagement with the game. Some prefer Ryu while others prefer Ken. Those two fighters are almost identical to each other with minor variation, but they are both beloved characters of their franchise.

For how the Ritualist could expand with the game using elite specializations this is were the ritualist really steps on the toes of the necromancer. What themes and ideas could they pull from? Summoning minions makes sense for them, a strong Melee spectral brawler also makes sense but both of these are themes the necromancer is already doing. Would they just be some weird variation of what the necromancer could be doing? Would this be good design space for the game or would this be too much bloat on the profession end?

I know I am the one who suggested it as a possibility and yet I'm kinda dumping on the idea, but don't get me wrong. Even with all the negative aspects of the ritualist's inclusion of it were to happen I'd still be both excited and happy to see it in the game as its own unique profession. I feel that it is the strongest way to really succeed the ritualist's identity in GW2 even if it also comes with the most complications.

Potential as an Elite Specialization

As an Elite spec, it becomes much easier to find space for the Ritualist. its theme and style of gameplay is rip for the picking and actually slots perfectly as a puzzle piece for one particular profession. The necromancer! I've mentioned it a few times in the above post, but the necromancer is everything the ritualist is thematically and beyond. With the Elite specialization system in place it becomes thematically and lore wise the best possible fit for its inclusion. No profession comes even remotely close to the Theme's and play styles required by this elite spec to give it the respect it deserves in GW2.

Advantages of the Necromancer as its core spec

  • Urns: One of the most forgotten Aspects of the Ritualist is their Urns. The GW2 translation of this mechanic are kits, so in the GW2 space these are supposed to be bundles that provide extra skills for the user to use. With this in mind, the necromancer actually has the perfect design space to include these without the need for them to take up their Utility skills which would be a crime if it wasn't saved for Spirits. The Shroud mechanic is already similar to a kit in many ways and it wouldn't be a stretch to say their shroud was replaced by an Urn. This also has an advantage to it since a few urns had summon and drop effects that could heal, provide energy or deal damage in GW1. GW2, the necromancer has a few traits that function similarly. Although I'd make the request that Life from death, Spiteful Spirit and Foot on the grave all be changed in fuction to be entering and exiting shroud for their effect. This could increase the nostalgic feel that the Urn users of GW1 remember. Other professions really don't have a mechanic similar enough to pull this off well. They don't have the traits or skills and it would need to be crammed on just 9 traits along with all the other design space we need to cover, which is unreasonable.
  • Spirit Weapons: This took me a long time of milling it over in my head how to best represent the weapon spells from GW1 in GW2. And only a couple could be available to any class let along necromancer, but I feel I have a compromise that might just work. Putting these skills on 2-3 of the Urn skills and/or weapon skills could give necromancer's a temporary unique buff they can apply to allies. The necromancer is sorely lacking in damage buffs and there are a few that come to mind that could give the party a short burst of damage. Both Nightmare weapon and Splinter weapon have these properties. Although this wouldn't have to be unique to the necromancer, the other professions that could get ritualist already have unique party buffs they can give out. Guardian has its Ashes of the Just, Revenant has Soulcleave's Summit, Ranger has Glyph of Alignment and its spirits. But the necromancer only has a passive buff in Vampiric presence, which all or almost all professions has one of these passive buffs. Giving something like this to necromancer would go a longer way on them for a support spec than it would for other professions who already have all the pieces. How this could work is very similar to how it worked in GW1. Rather than targeting an ally individually though you could use a ground target or aoe burst to grant these unique weapon buffs to allies. Most likely they'd fade after a few strikes. The other advantage is that some weapon spells were defensive. Although they reduced damage allies could take usually and would steal life from the attacking foe, on a necromancer it could just block the attack and steal life from the attacker. A minor damage buff while giving minor healing with appropriate protection.
  • Spirits: Spirits of course would need to be the utility skills of choice. If there is one thing everyone can agree on its this. Necromancer once again has the design space advantage here. You might wonder how that's possible but I'll explain. The necromancer has some uniqueness to it that the Ritualist never had which can change the function of spirits to be more of a real aid to the party. The Ritualist Spirits weren't just offensive spirits but also defensive. And the best design for spirits in this regard would be a 3/3 approach. 3 defensive spirits and 3 offensive spirits. The 3 defensive being the heal which could take on the identity of Preservation and Life to help fit that support healer theme that is part of the ritualists design as well as 2 utility which can embody aspects of Shelter and Union but not so absurdly powerful. Beyond just that the unique flavor of the necromancer could use a defensive spirit as its own personal martyr, drawing in conditions from allies with a turn over skill that allows it to burst those conditions outward. Offensively the obvious choices would be Pain, Wonderlust (only inflicting torment rather than knock down with a flip fear skill), and Call to the Spirit Realm as the elite. The necromancer already has a trait called Vampiric which could be adjusted to include spirits as well as minions giving further synergy and allowing for a painful bond feel in some aspects. There is also the advantage of using traits in combination with the "shroud" or urn that could modify the spirits in some way, likely though recharge much like they did with Ritual lord and Soul Twisting. The tech to fill out these spirits is all available to the necromancer. Some aspects could be replicated by other professions, but not all which would be a short sight in this part.
  • The Ritualist cares about summoning: One thing to note on the ritualist is that it was designed with the expressed intention of being able to synergise with necromancer minions and any other hypothetical future profession that might have summoned something. This is a part of the ritualist's identity with skills like Boon of Creation, Explosive Growth and Spirit's Gift. It would be an absolute shame for the ritualist elite spec not to have some cross synergy with both spirits and minions as this was built into their identity in GW1. One of my favorite builds was the Ritualist Minion bomber and it would be an absolute shame to lose it.
  • The necromancer is Lacking a lot of what the Ritualist can offer it: Unlike other professions, the necromancer really hasn't gotten along too well in the realms of support. They have some interesting options, but nothing that really has stood out. This makes them the prime target for a solid support spec which the ritualist absolutely would be. While other professions already have much of what the ritualist would offer, the necromancer doesn't. A solid healing spec? Revenant has Legendary centaur stance, Ranger has druid and Guardian has the tome of resolve. You can argue how effective these are or aren't in comparison to each other, but the fact is that these professions already have the capability to heal and rather adding more healing options on a single profession, branching out would be better in my opinion. Spirits? The ranger already has spirits, the Revenant has something similar but can't have the diversity the spirits would require. Although Guardian Could use the spirits to similar effectiveness as the necromancer this isn't something they really need. The necromancer lacks support for allies, and the scourge really isn't cutting it for them. And even if it did in some way it still couldn't fill the same design space or niche that the Ritualist would offer.

Mechanical Themes and abilities
* Cares about life force: Life force is a unique mechanic in a lot of ways in GW2. And the necromancer seems mostly to ignore it aside from generating and spending it. There doesn't seem to be traits that modify this in anyway or give benefits to it. For me I feel that rather than this elite spec caring about a specific condition like with reaper and scourge it could care about life force and how its used or generated. Minor traits that give a bonus when gaining or spending life force. I always feel that life force should be an important focus for the necromancer and this allows for space to open up to bursting strategies and conservation strategies.
* Trident: For the weapon it was a tough choice, but I have to pick the Trident. I Milled about back and forth on what to choose and what fits best thematically and in truth the Staff does. And although I wouldn't mind doubling up on staff skills for the necromancer I feel that other players might not be so happy with that. So a Trident on land seems like it could be a fairly decent choice and would give the freedom with skills to offer a greater support package.
* Summoning: The Ritualist cares a great deal about summoning so at least a couple of traits would need to care about summoning and impact the field in this way. This wouldn't just include spirits but minions as well.
* The Urn itself: The urn being a replacement for shroud makes sense in a lot of ways, but the mechanic of shroud is a little limited. My idea would be that the urn would be summoned, replacing your skill bar but the life force would be used to fuel the abilities available with the urn as opposed to providing extra health. This would allow the skills to have stronger support elements to them without making the Ritualist just the absolute tankiest support spec in the game. With this in mind, it also wouldn't lock your utility skills or yourself out of being healed.
* Unique urns: Another idea I was milling about in my head was the idea that the urn's skills would dramatically change based on which grandmaster you decided to choose. Be it damage support, Healing support or Summoning modification. Something to really build on the themes available to the Ritualist to really diversify it from other specs.

Lore Justification possibility
It wouldn't be a stretch to imagine that the necromancer priests of grenth in Cantha would keep the ritualist practices alive considering how closely tied their magic and beliefs are. So this was never really an issue for me. It would be really simple to make this the reason why the ritualist is an elite spec of the necromancer, specializing in spirits and souls. As for why a trident this could have some interesting lore connections to Tyria and the Elder Dragons. And I'll explain.

My hypothesis is that the reason we'd go to Cantha in the first place would be because the Deep Sea Dragon is active and at the coast of Cantha. This could have huge ramifications for the Canthans already there since the rise of an Elder dragon has caused the sinking of Much of Lion's Arch. So something similar could happen to much of Shing Jea Island and Kaineng City. This pet idea of mine lead to an Idea of literally thousands of souls being lost at sea and people without identification who died being cremated on mass giving the vibe that the urn the Ritualist would summon would be the Urn of the Drowned. Necromancers would Likely take on the role of cremation here as the bodies of the drowned would most likely be brought to them. Thus the role connectivity can continue. The Ritualist is very much a part of Canthan culture so this would make perfect sense for them to do as a part of their societal job. But this is how I'd justify the Trident as well as nameless urns that any race could use. The Urn being ashes of the drowned allows for more design space freedom while also giving players a compelling story and culture to explore.

Additional Notes
Its very difficult to design and conceptualize an elite specialization or a profession. And its especially difficult for an individual to do it on their own without aid or impute. There are a lot of Specialization suggestions were the players get into the nitty gritty of what they want and rarely do I actually like them to any extent. This is just a proof of concept on some ideas on how I think it could work and some of its potential. Ritualist has been something I've wanted to see since HoT and the teasing Arena Net did with Marjory in her story really got me excited for the prospect of its eventual return to the game. Marjory really gave off a Ritualist vibe to me, and she was the spark to my long standing hypothesis of an elite spec of the Ritualist. Every new expansion has only reinvigorated my passion for this pet obsession of mine as they expand what each of the elite specializations can achieve. I hope you enjoyed the read. You're welcome to agree or disagree, but please keep it civil.

<13

Comments

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I would like to hear other people's perspectives on how it could be implemented. Perhaps someone has a solution to making it's own unique profession I didn't think about?

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 25, 2018

    @Justine.6351 said:
    Revenant and more specifically, Renegade.

    Revenant mechanically is more similar to the Dervish. When Anet brought Dervish bosses into Gw2 they functioned like what you'd expect a revenant would function.

    Now Ritualist has always been stepping in the toes of the necromancer and it was even acknowledged in GW1 to an extend. Many didn't see their identity as different enough back in gw1 to justify a new class.

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Well as a profession i doubt it. Engi is basically ritualist when you look at the mechanics.
    But i agree with you on necro would fit the theme just due to the fact that rev has something like a ritu spec and would rather benefit from a dervish like e-spec next time.

    Instead of "Urns" i would give the ritu the mechanic if spiritshroud or ashenshroud.
    Which focusses on supporting allies and dealing direct dmg in front of you. They could go with the conal AoE of firebrand IMO.
    Weapon choice is a difficult one, you could go with double sword and make it wraith themed or go shortbow for a safe ranged weapon.
    I would actually like double sword more as AoE focussed mid ranged weapon, so basically an Axe and GS hybrid. Would also ho well with other weapons. OH should provide utility and defense and MH should provide dmg and offense.

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    Well as a profession i doubt it. Engi is basically ritualist when you look at the mechanics.
    But i agree with you on necro would fit the theme just due to the fact that rev has something like a ritu spec and would rather benefit from a dervish like e-spec next time.

    Instead of "Urns" i would give the ritu the mechanic if spiritshroud or ashenshroud.
    Which focusses on supporting allies and dealing direct dmg in front of you. They could go with the conal AoE of firebrand IMO.
    Weapon choice is a difficult one, you could go with double sword and make it wraith themed or go shortbow for a safe ranged weapon.
    I would actually like double sword more as AoE focussed mid ranged weapon, so basically an Axe and GS hybrid. Would also ho well with other weapons. OH should provide utility and defense and MH should provide dmg and offense.

    Mechanically there wouldn't really be a difference between shroud and urns. Sword was a consideration. But I personally would like to keep the support theme going of the spec. So giving unique buffs to allies as well as boon support and minor damage is what I'd be looking for. And of course life force generation because that's always needed.

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    Well as a profession i doubt it. Engi is basically ritualist when you look at the mechanics.
    But i agree with you on necro would fit the theme just due to the fact that rev has something like a ritu spec and would rather benefit from a dervish like e-spec next time.

    Instead of "Urns" i would give the ritu the mechanic if spiritshroud or ashenshroud.
    Which focusses on supporting allies and dealing direct dmg in front of you. They could go with the conal AoE of firebrand IMO.
    Weapon choice is a difficult one, you could go with double sword and make it wraith themed or go shortbow for a safe ranged weapon.
    I would actually like double sword more as AoE focussed mid ranged weapon, so basically an Axe and GS hybrid. Would also ho well with other weapons. OH should provide utility and defense and MH should provide dmg and offense.

    Mechanically there wouldn't really be a difference between shroud and urns. Sword was a consideration. But I personally would like to keep the support theme going of the spec. So giving unique buffs to allies as well as boon support and minor damage is what I'd be looking for. And of course life force generation because that's always needed.

    Ou i thought you were going into the kit direction like tomes of FB,my bad.
    The shroud could have urns you can place on the ground that have special effects and you can trigger them with other skills to further support your group or something like that.
    Sword as a support weapon wasnt a thing till now but it would be something new to consider,so why not?

  • starlinvf.1358starlinvf.1358 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @Justine.6351 said:
    Revenant and more specifically, Renegade.

    Revenant mechanically is more similar to the Dervish. When Anet brought Dervish bosses into Gw2 they functioned like what you'd expect a revenant would function.

    Now Ritualist has always been stepping in the toes of the necromancer and it was even acknowledged in GW1 to an extend. Many didn't see their identity as different enough back in gw1 to justify a new class.

    Errr.... no. The Dervish is a melee class designed to generate and consume buffs for secondary effects.... which is the entire MO of the SpellBreaker. The ONLY thing they could arguably have in common with the Dervish is the Elite Transforms, which were limited to 5 Gods and added passive effects, not active skills. Its only similar in one thematical aspect, but none of the uniquely mechanical ones.

    Meanwhile, the Ritualist is a hybrid support spell caster, whose claim to fame is Communing with Spirits, and manifesting it into a the physical plane. This comes in the form of Totems, Objects, enchanting weapons, summoning unstable energy, and protective auras made from spirit stuff. Rev even has the Rit's trademark blind fold, 3rd eye Icon, and their power is drawn not from nature, but ancestral spirits that reside in the mists. Renegade brought with them the Totems. Even if we ignore that, Core Engineer has many of the mechanical aspects, sans Urns (which only lightly came over in the form of environmental weapons).

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @starlinvf.1358 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @Justine.6351 said:
    Revenant and more specifically, Renegade.

    Revenant mechanically is more similar to the Dervish. When Anet brought Dervish bosses into Gw2 they functioned like what you'd expect a revenant would function.

    Now Ritualist has always been stepping in the toes of the necromancer and it was even acknowledged in GW1 to an extend. Many didn't see their identity as different enough back in gw1 to justify a new class.

    Errr.... no. The Dervish is a melee class designed to generate and consume buffs for secondary effects.... which is the entire MO of the SpellBreaker. The ONLY thing they could arguably have in common with the Dervish is the Elite Transforms, which were limited to 5 Gods and added passive effects, not active skills. Its only similar in one thematical aspect, but none of the uniquely mechanical ones.

    Meanwhile, the Ritualist is a hybrid support spell caster, whose claim to fame is Communing with Spirits, and manifesting it into a the physical plane. This comes in the form of Totems, Objects, enchanting weapons, summoning unstable energy, and protective auras made from spirit stuff. Rev even has the Rit's trademark blind fold, 3rd eye Icon, and their power is drawn not from nature, but ancestral spirits that reside in the mists. Renegade brought with them the Totems. Even if we ignore that, Core Engineer has many of the mechanical aspects, sans Urns (which only lightly came over in the form of environmental weapons).

    Actually yes. The idea of the Dervish and its Avatar forms was to modify their skills in some way. In this case enchantments. When we look at dervish bosses in GW2 when Priestess Amala Channels one of the 5 gods she goes through a pretty drastic skill change to her abilities. Much like the Revenant. She is infusing herself with the power of the gods much like the Revenant is infusing themselves with legends of the Mists.

    Also, Blindfolds are a poor argument and honestly it was shown just to be a training measure for Rytlock and he didn't need or want it long term. And its not like necromancers don't use blindfolds already. Its honestly a weak argument and it doesn't account for everything else that connects the necromancer and the ritualist already. They both deal in death, they both use souls and spirits, they both were priests of grenth. Not only that but part of the Ritualist's design was that it was supposed to preform rituals, More like dances or rhythmic movements. Something you can't easily do in heavy plat. The Ritualist is a caster not a martial profession.

    You can disagree all you want, but the facts and evidence are overwhelmingly in the necromancer's favor.

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    Well as a profession i doubt it. Engi is basically ritualist when you look at the mechanics.
    But i agree with you on necro would fit the theme just due to the fact that rev has something like a ritu spec and would rather benefit from a dervish like e-spec next time.

    Instead of "Urns" i would give the ritu the mechanic if spiritshroud or ashenshroud.
    Which focusses on supporting allies and dealing direct dmg in front of you. They could go with the conal AoE of firebrand IMO.
    Weapon choice is a difficult one, you could go with double sword and make it wraith themed or go shortbow for a safe ranged weapon.
    I would actually like double sword more as AoE focussed mid ranged weapon, so basically an Axe and GS hybrid. Would also ho well with other weapons. OH should provide utility and defense and MH should provide dmg and offense.

    Mechanically there wouldn't really be a difference between shroud and urns. Sword was a consideration. But I personally would like to keep the support theme going of the spec. So giving unique buffs to allies as well as boon support and minor damage is what I'd be looking for. And of course life force generation because that's always needed.

    Ou i thought you were going into the kit direction like tomes of FB,my bad.
    The shroud could have urns you can place on the ground that have special effects and you can trigger them with other skills to further support your group or something like that.
    Sword as a support weapon wasnt a thing till now but it would be something new to consider,so why not?

    I don't think placing urns is really a thing I'd like to do. It seems like a retreading of the Scourge in some ways if that was done and as much as I love scourge, I'd like to differentiate them. a bit more.

    As for swords as support weapons? I'm not sure how that could work. I personally feel that Ritualist should be long ranged, but that's just me. Hammer seems to poll well too. So that's a possibility... I'm not a fan of hammer on necro but I could be convinced of just about anything if it was done right.

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Justine.6351 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:
    I would like to hear other people's perspectives on how it could be implemented. Perhaps someone has a solution to making it's own unique profession I didn't think about?

    Doesn't really seem like you are that interested in what we think after all.

    Sure I am. About the topic. Renegade isn't really relevant.

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 25, 2018

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    Well as a profession i doubt it. Engi is basically ritualist when you look at the mechanics.
    But i agree with you on necro would fit the theme just due to the fact that rev has something like a ritu spec and would rather benefit from a dervish like e-spec next time.

    Instead of "Urns" i would give the ritu the mechanic if spiritshroud or ashenshroud.
    Which focusses on supporting allies and dealing direct dmg in front of you. They could go with the conal AoE of firebrand IMO.
    Weapon choice is a difficult one, you could go with double sword and make it wraith themed or go shortbow for a safe ranged weapon.
    I would actually like double sword more as AoE focussed mid ranged weapon, so basically an Axe and GS hybrid. Would also ho well with other weapons. OH should provide utility and defense and MH should provide dmg and offense.

    Mechanically there wouldn't really be a difference between shroud and urns. Sword was a consideration. But I personally would like to keep the support theme going of the spec. So giving unique buffs to allies as well as boon support and minor damage is what I'd be looking for. And of course life force generation because that's always needed.

    Ou i thought you were going into the kit direction like tomes of FB,my bad.
    The shroud could have urns you can place on the ground that have special effects and you can trigger them with other skills to further support your group or something like that.
    Sword as a support weapon wasnt a thing till now but it would be something new to consider,so why not?

    I don't think placing urns is really a thing I'd like to do. It seems like a retreading of the Scourge in some ways if that was done and as much as I love scourge, I'd like to differentiate them. a bit more.

    As for swords as support weapons? I'm not sure how that could work. I personally feel that Ritualist should be long ranged, but that's just me. Hammer seems to poll well too. So that's a possibility... I'm not a fan of hammer on necro but I could be convinced of just about anything if it was done right.

    Well yeah thats a fair point about the urn placement and scourge.
    But sword can easily be a ranged support weapon.
    MH should focus on direct dmg and control together with boon share to allies and OH should provide utility like mobility and defense on you and allies.

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    Well as a profession i doubt it. Engi is basically ritualist when you look at the mechanics.
    But i agree with you on necro would fit the theme just due to the fact that rev has something like a ritu spec and would rather benefit from a dervish like e-spec next time.

    Instead of "Urns" i would give the ritu the mechanic if spiritshroud or ashenshroud.
    Which focusses on supporting allies and dealing direct dmg in front of you. They could go with the conal AoE of firebrand IMO.
    Weapon choice is a difficult one, you could go with double sword and make it wraith themed or go shortbow for a safe ranged weapon.
    I would actually like double sword more as AoE focussed mid ranged weapon, so basically an Axe and GS hybrid. Would also ho well with other weapons. OH should provide utility and defense and MH should provide dmg and offense.

    Mechanically there wouldn't really be a difference between shroud and urns. Sword was a consideration. But I personally would like to keep the support theme going of the spec. So giving unique buffs to allies as well as boon support and minor damage is what I'd be looking for. And of course life force generation because that's always needed.

    Ou i thought you were going into the kit direction like tomes of FB,my bad.
    The shroud could have urns you can place on the ground that have special effects and you can trigger them with other skills to further support your group or something like that.
    Sword as a support weapon wasnt a thing till now but it would be something new to consider,so why not?

    I don't think placing urns is really a thing I'd like to do. It seems like a retreading of the Scourge in some ways if that was done and as much as I love scourge, I'd like to differentiate them. a bit more.

    As for swords as support weapons? I'm not sure how that could work. I personally feel that Ritualist should be long ranged, but that's just me. Hammer seems to poll well too. So that's a possibility... I'm not a fan of hammer on necro but I could be convinced of just about anything if it was done right.

    Well yeah thats a fair point about the urn placement and scourge.
    But sword can easily be a ranged support weapon.
    MH should focus on direct dmg and control together with boon share to allies and OH should provide utility like mobility and defense on you and allies.

    It could work. But what about Animations?

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 25, 2018

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    Well as a profession i doubt it. Engi is basically ritualist when you look at the mechanics.
    But i agree with you on necro would fit the theme just due to the fact that rev has something like a ritu spec and would rather benefit from a dervish like e-spec next time.

    Instead of "Urns" i would give the ritu the mechanic if spiritshroud or ashenshroud.
    Which focusses on supporting allies and dealing direct dmg in front of you. They could go with the conal AoE of firebrand IMO.
    Weapon choice is a difficult one, you could go with double sword and make it wraith themed or go shortbow for a safe ranged weapon.
    I would actually like double sword more as AoE focussed mid ranged weapon, so basically an Axe and GS hybrid. Would also ho well with other weapons. OH should provide utility and defense and MH should provide dmg and offense.

    Mechanically there wouldn't really be a difference between shroud and urns. Sword was a consideration. But I personally would like to keep the support theme going of the spec. So giving unique buffs to allies as well as boon support and minor damage is what I'd be looking for. And of course life force generation because that's always needed.

    Ou i thought you were going into the kit direction like tomes of FB,my bad.
    The shroud could have urns you can place on the ground that have special effects and you can trigger them with other skills to further support your group or something like that.
    Sword as a support weapon wasnt a thing till now but it would be something new to consider,so why not?

    I don't think placing urns is really a thing I'd like to do. It seems like a retreading of the Scourge in some ways if that was done and as much as I love scourge, I'd like to differentiate them. a bit more.

    As for swords as support weapons? I'm not sure how that could work. I personally feel that Ritualist should be long ranged, but that's just me. Hammer seems to poll well too. So that's a possibility... I'm not a fan of hammer on necro but I could be convinced of just about anything if it was done right.

    Well yeah thats a fair point about the urn placement and scourge.
    But sword can easily be a ranged support weapon.
    MH should focus on direct dmg and control together with boon share to allies and OH should provide utility like mobility and defense on you and allies.

    It could work. But what about Animations?

    Well ranged cleave animations are already of sonewhat present with axe and scepter so it wouldn't be a stretch to put similar ones one sword and hammer of rev could be a good reference too with the shock waves.
    Ofc you could have also similar things to ele scepter and so on.
    MH id say its AA is dmg oriented steals life, second should be pure AoE dmg and buffing allies and third propavbly sonething that is a disengage that stuns in an area in front if you.
    For OH it would be neat to have sonething like a groind targeted Projectile denying area that removes conditions and gap closer similar to druid staff 3 that also blasts fields but flips condis instead of healing.
    Via traits there could be something like: flipping boons shares them with your allies, would give a great GM IMO.

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Elric.4713 said:

    @Justine.6351 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:
    I would like to hear other people's perspectives on how it could be implemented. Perhaps someone has a solution to making it's own unique profession I didn't think about?

    Doesn't really seem like you are that interested in what we think after all.

    Pretty much this. What the OP just wrote seems like fan fiction without the Revenant not even being considered even tho in reality it is the profession that has the most in common with Ritualist theme wise.

    Third eye icon ✓
    Blindfolds ✓
    Invoking power of beings from the Mists ✓
    Champion Ritualist Pvp title ✓

    Yes, sure, Revenant is not a carbon copy of the GW1 profession, but it undeniably has the most thematic similarities with the Ritualist, just like Engineer has mechanic similarities.

    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ritualist
    http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Ritualist
    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Necromancer
    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/necromancer/
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Marjory's_Story:The_Last_Straw
    https://heartofthorns.guildwars2.com/game/revenant/
    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/21/ad/c3/21adc3995958f67c9f2581c7a10ec798.jpg
    https://artfiles.alphacoders.com/198/19836.jpg
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Priest_of_Grenth
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Scourge
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shade
    (mythology)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necromancy

    You might want to give those a read before you make such a bold claim. I've been through this song and dance many times before. There are many reasons the Revenant doesn't fit the ritualist thematically and why the necromancer does both in the game and using real world parallels of what they were inspired from. Revenant has SOME elements, but nothing that isn't superficial like a blind fold, which I've shown the necromancer has in a previous post, a title in PvP which doesn't actually mean anything when talking about the lore of the game.

    But read all that first. Tell me after that that there is a significant difference in the lore and ideology of the ritualist and necromancer after that. Because their differences are minor and whenever the Ritualist is described in GW1 its always compared to the necromancer. Sometimes monk and sometimes ranger. There are two pictures in there too for viewing pleasure. Showing how these two professions were always meant to be two sides of the same coin. Its not a fan fiction that I'm creating, its just the raw data that I've collected over years of playing and scouring through the GW1 and GW2 wikis. It's been interesting reading about them.

    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Dervish
    http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Dervish

    Also the Dervish has some interesting descriptions in it. The Trivia is interesting too. Its not super relevant to the overall conversation, although it does have more in common with revenant than you think it does. Its still worth a read.

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    Well as a profession i doubt it. Engi is basically ritualist when you look at the mechanics.
    But i agree with you on necro would fit the theme just due to the fact that rev has something like a ritu spec and would rather benefit from a dervish like e-spec next time.

    Instead of "Urns" i would give the ritu the mechanic if spiritshroud or ashenshroud.
    Which focusses on supporting allies and dealing direct dmg in front of you. They could go with the conal AoE of firebrand IMO.
    Weapon choice is a difficult one, you could go with double sword and make it wraith themed or go shortbow for a safe ranged weapon.
    I would actually like double sword more as AoE focussed mid ranged weapon, so basically an Axe and GS hybrid. Would also ho well with other weapons. OH should provide utility and defense and MH should provide dmg and offense.

    Mechanically there wouldn't really be a difference between shroud and urns. Sword was a consideration. But I personally would like to keep the support theme going of the spec. So giving unique buffs to allies as well as boon support and minor damage is what I'd be looking for. And of course life force generation because that's always needed.

    Ou i thought you were going into the kit direction like tomes of FB,my bad.
    The shroud could have urns you can place on the ground that have special effects and you can trigger them with other skills to further support your group or something like that.
    Sword as a support weapon wasnt a thing till now but it would be something new to consider,so why not?

    I don't think placing urns is really a thing I'd like to do. It seems like a retreading of the Scourge in some ways if that was done and as much as I love scourge, I'd like to differentiate them. a bit more.

    As for swords as support weapons? I'm not sure how that could work. I personally feel that Ritualist should be long ranged, but that's just me. Hammer seems to poll well too. So that's a possibility... I'm not a fan of hammer on necro but I could be convinced of just about anything if it was done right.

    Well yeah thats a fair point about the urn placement and scourge.
    But sword can easily be a ranged support weapon.
    MH should focus on direct dmg and control together with boon share to allies and OH should provide utility like mobility and defense on you and allies.

    It could work. But what about Animations?

    Well ranged cleave animations are already of sonewhat present with axe and scepter so it wouldn't be a stretch to put similar ones one sword and hammer of rev could be a good reference too with the shock waves.
    Ofc you could have also similar things to ele scepter and so on.
    MH id say its AA is dmg oriented steals life, second should be pure AoE dmg and buffing allies and third propavbly sonething that is a disengage that stuns in an area in front if you.
    For OH it would be neat to have sonething like a groind targeted Projectile denying area that removes conditions and gap closer similar to druid staff 3 that also blasts fields but flips condis instead of healing.
    Via traits there could be something like: flipping boons shares them with your allies, would give a great GM IMO.

    I'm having a little bit of a hard time seeing it. Main hand sword I could see, but off hand looks a bit clumsy in my head. I'd have really liked Torch but scourge already has that. Hmm. A sword is more elegant which helps with that sort of Shamanistic spirit dancer type feel that the GW1 ritualist had. So perhaps Unique animations that really embody the identity of the ritualist's unique movement? It was something I always loved about their design and it would be an absolute shame to let that go. This would be so much of an easier design decision to make if necromancer just had a decent support off hand weapon... Lol..

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    Well as a profession i doubt it. Engi is basically ritualist when you look at the mechanics.
    But i agree with you on necro would fit the theme just due to the fact that rev has something like a ritu spec and would rather benefit from a dervish like e-spec next time.

    Instead of "Urns" i would give the ritu the mechanic if spiritshroud or ashenshroud.
    Which focusses on supporting allies and dealing direct dmg in front of you. They could go with the conal AoE of firebrand IMO.
    Weapon choice is a difficult one, you could go with double sword and make it wraith themed or go shortbow for a safe ranged weapon.
    I would actually like double sword more as AoE focussed mid ranged weapon, so basically an Axe and GS hybrid. Would also ho well with other weapons. OH should provide utility and defense and MH should provide dmg and offense.

    Mechanically there wouldn't really be a difference between shroud and urns. Sword was a consideration. But I personally would like to keep the support theme going of the spec. So giving unique buffs to allies as well as boon support and minor damage is what I'd be looking for. And of course life force generation because that's always needed.

    Ou i thought you were going into the kit direction like tomes of FB,my bad.
    The shroud could have urns you can place on the ground that have special effects and you can trigger them with other skills to further support your group or something like that.
    Sword as a support weapon wasnt a thing till now but it would be something new to consider,so why not?

    I don't think placing urns is really a thing I'd like to do. It seems like a retreading of the Scourge in some ways if that was done and as much as I love scourge, I'd like to differentiate them. a bit more.

    As for swords as support weapons? I'm not sure how that could work. I personally feel that Ritualist should be long ranged, but that's just me. Hammer seems to poll well too. So that's a possibility... I'm not a fan of hammer on necro but I could be convinced of just about anything if it was done right.

    Well yeah thats a fair point about the urn placement and scourge.
    But sword can easily be a ranged support weapon.
    MH should focus on direct dmg and control together with boon share to allies and OH should provide utility like mobility and defense on you and allies.

    It could work. But what about Animations?

    Well ranged cleave animations are already of sonewhat present with axe and scepter so it wouldn't be a stretch to put similar ones one sword and hammer of rev could be a good reference too with the shock waves.
    Ofc you could have also similar things to ele scepter and so on.
    MH id say its AA is dmg oriented steals life, second should be pure AoE dmg and buffing allies and third propavbly sonething that is a disengage that stuns in an area in front if you.
    For OH it would be neat to have sonething like a groind targeted Projectile denying area that removes conditions and gap closer similar to druid staff 3 that also blasts fields but flips condis instead of healing.
    Via traits there could be something like: flipping boons shares them with your allies, would give a great GM IMO.

    I'm having a little bit of a hard time seeing it. Main hand sword I could see, but off hand looks a bit clumsy in my head. I'd have really liked Torch but scourge already has that. Hmm. A sword is more elegant which helps with that sort of Shamanistic spirit dancer type feel that the GW1 ritualist had. So perhaps Unique animations that really embody the identity of the ritualist's unique movement? It was something I always loved about their design and it would be an absolute shame to let that go. This would be so much of an easier design decision to make if necromancer just had a decent support off hand weapon... Lol..

    Yeah i think giving sword OH strong support abilities would be nice overall for the class.
    The 2 skills i proposed for OH are more or less skills that helps your allies/intervenes with your enemies action. Packing both into one could be cool too. Like traveling to one spot that creates a condi flipping projectile killing field. So one spot is free for a AoE pull or somethibg like that.

    For necro i want a crowd controlling, condi manipulating/flipping spec that shares boons to allies and heals via lifesteal.
    Reaper is more or less the power Dps meat shield and scourge is the condi dps Area denying dmg mitigator. So ritualist/specter should be the heavy CC boonsupport, something we havent got.

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    Well as a profession i doubt it. Engi is basically ritualist when you look at the mechanics.
    But i agree with you on necro would fit the theme just due to the fact that rev has something like a ritu spec and would rather benefit from a dervish like e-spec next time.

    Instead of "Urns" i would give the ritu the mechanic if spiritshroud or ashenshroud.
    Which focusses on supporting allies and dealing direct dmg in front of you. They could go with the conal AoE of firebrand IMO.
    Weapon choice is a difficult one, you could go with double sword and make it wraith themed or go shortbow for a safe ranged weapon.
    I would actually like double sword more as AoE focussed mid ranged weapon, so basically an Axe and GS hybrid. Would also ho well with other weapons. OH should provide utility and defense and MH should provide dmg and offense.

    Mechanically there wouldn't really be a difference between shroud and urns. Sword was a consideration. But I personally would like to keep the support theme going of the spec. So giving unique buffs to allies as well as boon support and minor damage is what I'd be looking for. And of course life force generation because that's always needed.

    Ou i thought you were going into the kit direction like tomes of FB,my bad.
    The shroud could have urns you can place on the ground that have special effects and you can trigger them with other skills to further support your group or something like that.
    Sword as a support weapon wasnt a thing till now but it would be something new to consider,so why not?

    I don't think placing urns is really a thing I'd like to do. It seems like a retreading of the Scourge in some ways if that was done and as much as I love scourge, I'd like to differentiate them. a bit more.

    As for swords as support weapons? I'm not sure how that could work. I personally feel that Ritualist should be long ranged, but that's just me. Hammer seems to poll well too. So that's a possibility... I'm not a fan of hammer on necro but I could be convinced of just about anything if it was done right.

    Well yeah thats a fair point about the urn placement and scourge.
    But sword can easily be a ranged support weapon.
    MH should focus on direct dmg and control together with boon share to allies and OH should provide utility like mobility and defense on you and allies.

    It could work. But what about Animations?

    Well ranged cleave animations are already of sonewhat present with axe and scepter so it wouldn't be a stretch to put similar ones one sword and hammer of rev could be a good reference too with the shock waves.
    Ofc you could have also similar things to ele scepter and so on.
    MH id say its AA is dmg oriented steals life, second should be pure AoE dmg and buffing allies and third propavbly sonething that is a disengage that stuns in an area in front if you.
    For OH it would be neat to have sonething like a groind targeted Projectile denying area that removes conditions and gap closer similar to druid staff 3 that also blasts fields but flips condis instead of healing.
    Via traits there could be something like: flipping boons shares them with your allies, would give a great GM IMO.

    I'm having a little bit of a hard time seeing it. Main hand sword I could see, but off hand looks a bit clumsy in my head. I'd have really liked Torch but scourge already has that. Hmm. A sword is more elegant which helps with that sort of Shamanistic spirit dancer type feel that the GW1 ritualist had. So perhaps Unique animations that really embody the identity of the ritualist's unique movement? It was something I always loved about their design and it would be an absolute shame to let that go. This would be so much of an easier design decision to make if necromancer just had a decent support off hand weapon... Lol..

    Yeah i think giving sword OH strong support abilities would be nice overall for the class.
    The 2 skills i proposed for OH are more or less skills that helps your allies/intervenes with your enemies action. Packing both into one could be cool too. Like traveling to one spot that creates a condi flipping projectile killing field. So one spot is free for a AoE pull or somethibg like that.

    For necro i want a crowd controlling, condi manipulating/flipping spec that shares boons to allies and heals via lifesteal.
    Reaper is more or less the power Dps meat shield and scourge is the condi dps Area denying dmg mitigator. So ritualist/specter should be the heavy CC boonsupport, something we havent got.

    I certainly agree that 5 skills would be the best in this case. I really wish staff was the support weapon we've always wanted but it just isn't. Like I said above, I wouldn't mind doubling up on weapons. If Arena net did something like Sword with focus or torch being changed on the Ritualist to better combo and function in unison with the spec that could be really cool. I'm of the opinion though though that not every profession needs every weapon available to them in the game. But that's just my opinion.

    I would really like it if they could provide some boons to allies through their skills. Protection and regeneration reliably would be wonderful. Might would be nice but not required as I feel some skills should embody weapon skills that give a temporary buff like Venoms or Ashes of the Just that have a couple of charges. My thought was always Splinter weapon which could be a buff that is applied to allies in the target area were their next 2-3 attacks strike an aoe damage burst. Or Nightmare weapon which gives life stealing. The last buff I was thinking was inspired by Vengeful weapon, Weapon of Remedy, and of course Xinrae's Weapon. Rather than just stealing life when they get struck though, it could actually just block the attack and steal life. Which would great for the necromancer since they can't really do that.

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 25, 2018

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    Well as a profession i doubt it. Engi is basically ritualist when you look at the mechanics.
    But i agree with you on necro would fit the theme just due to the fact that rev has something like a ritu spec and would rather benefit from a dervish like e-spec next time.

    Instead of "Urns" i would give the ritu the mechanic if spiritshroud or ashenshroud.
    Which focusses on supporting allies and dealing direct dmg in front of you. They could go with the conal AoE of firebrand IMO.
    Weapon choice is a difficult one, you could go with double sword and make it wraith themed or go shortbow for a safe ranged weapon.
    I would actually like double sword more as AoE focussed mid ranged weapon, so basically an Axe and GS hybrid. Would also ho well with other weapons. OH should provide utility and defense and MH should provide dmg and offense.

    Mechanically there wouldn't really be a difference between shroud and urns. Sword was a consideration. But I personally would like to keep the support theme going of the spec. So giving unique buffs to allies as well as boon support and minor damage is what I'd be looking for. And of course life force generation because that's always needed.

    Ou i thought you were going into the kit direction like tomes of FB,my bad.
    The shroud could have urns you can place on the ground that have special effects and you can trigger them with other skills to further support your group or something like that.
    Sword as a support weapon wasnt a thing till now but it would be something new to consider,so why not?

    I don't think placing urns is really a thing I'd like to do. It seems like a retreading of the Scourge in some ways if that was done and as much as I love scourge, I'd like to differentiate them. a bit more.

    As for swords as support weapons? I'm not sure how that could work. I personally feel that Ritualist should be long ranged, but that's just me. Hammer seems to poll well too. So that's a possibility... I'm not a fan of hammer on necro but I could be convinced of just about anything if it was done right.

    Well yeah thats a fair point about the urn placement and scourge.
    But sword can easily be a ranged support weapon.
    MH should focus on direct dmg and control together with boon share to allies and OH should provide utility like mobility and defense on you and allies.

    It could work. But what about Animations?

    Well ranged cleave animations are already of sonewhat present with axe and scepter so it wouldn't be a stretch to put similar ones one sword and hammer of rev could be a good reference too with the shock waves.
    Ofc you could have also similar things to ele scepter and so on.
    MH id say its AA is dmg oriented steals life, second should be pure AoE dmg and buffing allies and third propavbly sonething that is a disengage that stuns in an area in front if you.
    For OH it would be neat to have sonething like a groind targeted Projectile denying area that removes conditions and gap closer similar to druid staff 3 that also blasts fields but flips condis instead of healing.
    Via traits there could be something like: flipping boons shares them with your allies, would give a great GM IMO.

    I'm having a little bit of a hard time seeing it. Main hand sword I could see, but off hand looks a bit clumsy in my head. I'd have really liked Torch but scourge already has that. Hmm. A sword is more elegant which helps with that sort of Shamanistic spirit dancer type feel that the GW1 ritualist had. So perhaps Unique animations that really embody the identity of the ritualist's unique movement? It was something I always loved about their design and it would be an absolute shame to let that go. This would be so much of an easier design decision to make if necromancer just had a decent support off hand weapon... Lol..

    Yeah i think giving sword OH strong support abilities would be nice overall for the class.
    The 2 skills i proposed for OH are more or less skills that helps your allies/intervenes with your enemies action. Packing both into one could be cool too. Like traveling to one spot that creates a condi flipping projectile killing field. So one spot is free for a AoE pull or somethibg like that.

    For necro i want a crowd controlling, condi manipulating/flipping spec that shares boons to allies and heals via lifesteal.
    Reaper is more or less the power Dps meat shield and scourge is the condi dps Area denying dmg mitigator. So ritualist/specter should be the heavy CC boonsupport, something we havent got.

    I certainly agree that 5 skills would be the best in this case. I really wish staff was the support weapon we've always wanted but it just isn't. Like I said above, I wouldn't mind doubling up on weapons. If Arena net did something like Sword with focus or torch being changed on the Ritualist to better combo and function in unison with the spec that could be really cool. I'm of the opinion though though that not every profession needs every weapon available to them in the game. But that's just my opinion.

    I would really like it if they could provide some boons to allies through their skills. Protection and regeneration reliably would be wonderful. Might would be nice but not required as I feel some skills should embody weapon skills that give a temporary buff like Venoms or Ashes of the Just that have a couple of charges. My thought was always Splinter weapon which could be a buff that is applied to allies in the target area were their next 2-3 attacks strike an aoe damage burst. Or Nightmare weapon which gives life stealing. The last buff I was thinking was inspired by Vengeful weapon, Weapon of Remedy, and of course Xinrae's Weapon. Rather than just stealing life when they get struck though, it could actually just block the attack and steal life. Which would great for the necromancer since they can't really do that.

    What if necro would get a shroud and a weapon enchantment on the 3rd skill depending on which weapon is wielded? Similar to weaver or thief dualwields. Would be weird for staff though but would give atlest 4 new skills ,5 with staff included.

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    Well as a profession i doubt it. Engi is basically ritualist when you look at the mechanics.
    But i agree with you on necro would fit the theme just due to the fact that rev has something like a ritu spec and would rather benefit from a dervish like e-spec next time.

    Instead of "Urns" i would give the ritu the mechanic if spiritshroud or ashenshroud.
    Which focusses on supporting allies and dealing direct dmg in front of you. They could go with the conal AoE of firebrand IMO.
    Weapon choice is a difficult one, you could go with double sword and make it wraith themed or go shortbow for a safe ranged weapon.
    I would actually like double sword more as AoE focussed mid ranged weapon, so basically an Axe and GS hybrid. Would also ho well with other weapons. OH should provide utility and defense and MH should provide dmg and offense.

    Mechanically there wouldn't really be a difference between shroud and urns. Sword was a consideration. But I personally would like to keep the support theme going of the spec. So giving unique buffs to allies as well as boon support and minor damage is what I'd be looking for. And of course life force generation because that's always needed.

    Ou i thought you were going into the kit direction like tomes of FB,my bad.
    The shroud could have urns you can place on the ground that have special effects and you can trigger them with other skills to further support your group or something like that.
    Sword as a support weapon wasnt a thing till now but it would be something new to consider,so why not?

    I don't think placing urns is really a thing I'd like to do. It seems like a retreading of the Scourge in some ways if that was done and as much as I love scourge, I'd like to differentiate them. a bit more.

    As for swords as support weapons? I'm not sure how that could work. I personally feel that Ritualist should be long ranged, but that's just me. Hammer seems to poll well too. So that's a possibility... I'm not a fan of hammer on necro but I could be convinced of just about anything if it was done right.

    Well yeah thats a fair point about the urn placement and scourge.
    But sword can easily be a ranged support weapon.
    MH should focus on direct dmg and control together with boon share to allies and OH should provide utility like mobility and defense on you and allies.

    It could work. But what about Animations?

    Well ranged cleave animations are already of sonewhat present with axe and scepter so it wouldn't be a stretch to put similar ones one sword and hammer of rev could be a good reference too with the shock waves.
    Ofc you could have also similar things to ele scepter and so on.
    MH id say its AA is dmg oriented steals life, second should be pure AoE dmg and buffing allies and third propavbly sonething that is a disengage that stuns in an area in front if you.
    For OH it would be neat to have sonething like a groind targeted Projectile denying area that removes conditions and gap closer similar to druid staff 3 that also blasts fields but flips condis instead of healing.
    Via traits there could be something like: flipping boons shares them with your allies, would give a great GM IMO.

    I'm having a little bit of a hard time seeing it. Main hand sword I could see, but off hand looks a bit clumsy in my head. I'd have really liked Torch but scourge already has that. Hmm. A sword is more elegant which helps with that sort of Shamanistic spirit dancer type feel that the GW1 ritualist had. So perhaps Unique animations that really embody the identity of the ritualist's unique movement? It was something I always loved about their design and it would be an absolute shame to let that go. This would be so much of an easier design decision to make if necromancer just had a decent support off hand weapon... Lol..

    Yeah i think giving sword OH strong support abilities would be nice overall for the class.
    The 2 skills i proposed for OH are more or less skills that helps your allies/intervenes with your enemies action. Packing both into one could be cool too. Like traveling to one spot that creates a condi flipping projectile killing field. So one spot is free for a AoE pull or somethibg like that.

    For necro i want a crowd controlling, condi manipulating/flipping spec that shares boons to allies and heals via lifesteal.
    Reaper is more or less the power Dps meat shield and scourge is the condi dps Area denying dmg mitigator. So ritualist/specter should be the heavy CC boonsupport, something we havent got.

    I certainly agree that 5 skills would be the best in this case. I really wish staff was the support weapon we've always wanted but it just isn't. Like I said above, I wouldn't mind doubling up on weapons. If Arena net did something like Sword with focus or torch being changed on the Ritualist to better combo and function in unison with the spec that could be really cool. I'm of the opinion though though that not every profession needs every weapon available to them in the game. But that's just my opinion.

    I would really like it if they could provide some boons to allies through their skills. Protection and regeneration reliably would be wonderful. Might would be nice but not required as I feel some skills should embody weapon skills that give a temporary buff like Venoms or Ashes of the Just that have a couple of charges. My thought was always Splinter weapon which could be a buff that is applied to allies in the target area were their next 2-3 attacks strike an aoe damage burst. Or Nightmare weapon which gives life stealing. The last buff I was thinking was inspired by Vengeful weapon, Weapon of Remedy, and of course Xinrae's Weapon. Rather than just stealing life when they get struck though, it could actually just block the attack and steal life. Which would great for the necromancer since they can't really do that.

    What if necro would get a shroud and a weapon enchantment on the 3rd skill depending on which weapon is wielded? Similar to weaver or thief dualwields. Would be weird for staff though but would give atlest 4 new skills ,5 with staff included.

    Interesting proposal. I think its a neat idea for sure, but the question is how well could it be executed? Not everyone weapon will be that good on a spec like Ritualist so how would we give Value to each of them?

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    Well as a profession i doubt it. Engi is basically ritualist when you look at the mechanics.
    But i agree with you on necro would fit the theme just due to the fact that rev has something like a ritu spec and would rather benefit from a dervish like e-spec next time.

    Instead of "Urns" i would give the ritu the mechanic if spiritshroud or ashenshroud.
    Which focusses on supporting allies and dealing direct dmg in front of you. They could go with the conal AoE of firebrand IMO.
    Weapon choice is a difficult one, you could go with double sword and make it wraith themed or go shortbow for a safe ranged weapon.
    I would actually like double sword more as AoE focussed mid ranged weapon, so basically an Axe and GS hybrid. Would also ho well with other weapons. OH should provide utility and defense and MH should provide dmg and offense.

    Mechanically there wouldn't really be a difference between shroud and urns. Sword was a consideration. But I personally would like to keep the support theme going of the spec. So giving unique buffs to allies as well as boon support and minor damage is what I'd be looking for. And of course life force generation because that's always needed.

    Ou i thought you were going into the kit direction like tomes of FB,my bad.
    The shroud could have urns you can place on the ground that have special effects and you can trigger them with other skills to further support your group or something like that.
    Sword as a support weapon wasnt a thing till now but it would be something new to consider,so why not?

    I don't think placing urns is really a thing I'd like to do. It seems like a retreading of the Scourge in some ways if that was done and as much as I love scourge, I'd like to differentiate them. a bit more.

    As for swords as support weapons? I'm not sure how that could work. I personally feel that Ritualist should be long ranged, but that's just me. Hammer seems to poll well too. So that's a possibility... I'm not a fan of hammer on necro but I could be convinced of just about anything if it was done right.

    Well yeah thats a fair point about the urn placement and scourge.
    But sword can easily be a ranged support weapon.
    MH should focus on direct dmg and control together with boon share to allies and OH should provide utility like mobility and defense on you and allies.

    It could work. But what about Animations?

    Well ranged cleave animations are already of sonewhat present with axe and scepter so it wouldn't be a stretch to put similar ones one sword and hammer of rev could be a good reference too with the shock waves.
    Ofc you could have also similar things to ele scepter and so on.
    MH id say its AA is dmg oriented steals life, second should be pure AoE dmg and buffing allies and third propavbly sonething that is a disengage that stuns in an area in front if you.
    For OH it would be neat to have sonething like a groind targeted Projectile denying area that removes conditions and gap closer similar to druid staff 3 that also blasts fields but flips condis instead of healing.
    Via traits there could be something like: flipping boons shares them with your allies, would give a great GM IMO.

    I'm having a little bit of a hard time seeing it. Main hand sword I could see, but off hand looks a bit clumsy in my head. I'd have really liked Torch but scourge already has that. Hmm. A sword is more elegant which helps with that sort of Shamanistic spirit dancer type feel that the GW1 ritualist had. So perhaps Unique animations that really embody the identity of the ritualist's unique movement? It was something I always loved about their design and it would be an absolute shame to let that go. This would be so much of an easier design decision to make if necromancer just had a decent support off hand weapon... Lol..

    Yeah i think giving sword OH strong support abilities would be nice overall for the class.
    The 2 skills i proposed for OH are more or less skills that helps your allies/intervenes with your enemies action. Packing both into one could be cool too. Like traveling to one spot that creates a condi flipping projectile killing field. So one spot is free for a AoE pull or somethibg like that.

    For necro i want a crowd controlling, condi manipulating/flipping spec that shares boons to allies and heals via lifesteal.
    Reaper is more or less the power Dps meat shield and scourge is the condi dps Area denying dmg mitigator. So ritualist/specter should be the heavy CC boonsupport, something we havent got.

    I certainly agree that 5 skills would be the best in this case. I really wish staff was the support weapon we've always wanted but it just isn't. Like I said above, I wouldn't mind doubling up on weapons. If Arena net did something like Sword with focus or torch being changed on the Ritualist to better combo and function in unison with the spec that could be really cool. I'm of the opinion though though that not every profession needs every weapon available to them in the game. But that's just my opinion.

    I would really like it if they could provide some boons to allies through their skills. Protection and regeneration reliably would be wonderful. Might would be nice but not required as I feel some skills should embody weapon skills that give a temporary buff like Venoms or Ashes of the Just that have a couple of charges. My thought was always Splinter weapon which could be a buff that is applied to allies in the target area were their next 2-3 attacks strike an aoe damage burst. Or Nightmare weapon which gives life stealing. The last buff I was thinking was inspired by Vengeful weapon, Weapon of Remedy, and of course Xinrae's Weapon. Rather than just stealing life when they get struck though, it could actually just block the attack and steal life. Which would great for the necromancer since they can't really do that.

    What if necro would get a shroud and a weapon enchantment on the 3rd skill depending on which weapon is wielded? Similar to weaver or thief dualwields. Would be weird for staff though but would give atlest 4 new skills ,5 with staff included.

    Interesting proposal. I think its a neat idea for sure, but the question is how well could it be executed? Not everyone weapon will be that good on a spec like Ritualist so how would we give Value to each of them?

    Well:
    Dagger gives lifesteal, scepter boon corrupt swordboons, warhorn applies CC, Focus increases dmg and the combination out if them are the dualwield skills in weapon enchantment form. Ofc they could vary. Fir example scepter sword could transfer cobditions instead of corrupting boons and dagger sword could give direct healing and so on.
    The udea is vague and before we would get that i rather want a staff rework and make signs similar to zeals of guardian just ground targeted and every weapon gets a sign.
    Staff would get totally new skills and the dualwield skill could provide even more options.
    Another interesting condept would be if you could "swap the shroud". So it would behave similar to scourges shroud but you could swap its beahviour from offensive to defensive and depending on that and your main weapon you get a different 3rd skill.

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    Well as a profession i doubt it. Engi is basically ritualist when you look at the mechanics.
    But i agree with you on necro would fit the theme just due to the fact that rev has something like a ritu spec and would rather benefit from a dervish like e-spec next time.

    Instead of "Urns" i would give the ritu the mechanic if spiritshroud or ashenshroud.
    Which focusses on supporting allies and dealing direct dmg in front of you. They could go with the conal AoE of firebrand IMO.
    Weapon choice is a difficult one, you could go with double sword and make it wraith themed or go shortbow for a safe ranged weapon.
    I would actually like double sword more as AoE focussed mid ranged weapon, so basically an Axe and GS hybrid. Would also ho well with other weapons. OH should provide utility and defense and MH should provide dmg and offense.

    Mechanically there wouldn't really be a difference between shroud and urns. Sword was a consideration. But I personally would like to keep the support theme going of the spec. So giving unique buffs to allies as well as boon support and minor damage is what I'd be looking for. And of course life force generation because that's always needed.

    Ou i thought you were going into the kit direction like tomes of FB,my bad.
    The shroud could have urns you can place on the ground that have special effects and you can trigger them with other skills to further support your group or something like that.
    Sword as a support weapon wasnt a thing till now but it would be something new to consider,so why not?

    I don't think placing urns is really a thing I'd like to do. It seems like a retreading of the Scourge in some ways if that was done and as much as I love scourge, I'd like to differentiate them. a bit more.

    As for swords as support weapons? I'm not sure how that could work. I personally feel that Ritualist should be long ranged, but that's just me. Hammer seems to poll well too. So that's a possibility... I'm not a fan of hammer on necro but I could be convinced of just about anything if it was done right.

    Well yeah thats a fair point about the urn placement and scourge.
    But sword can easily be a ranged support weapon.
    MH should focus on direct dmg and control together with boon share to allies and OH should provide utility like mobility and defense on you and allies.

    It could work. But what about Animations?

    Well ranged cleave animations are already of sonewhat present with axe and scepter so it wouldn't be a stretch to put similar ones one sword and hammer of rev could be a good reference too with the shock waves.
    Ofc you could have also similar things to ele scepter and so on.
    MH id say its AA is dmg oriented steals life, second should be pure AoE dmg and buffing allies and third propavbly sonething that is a disengage that stuns in an area in front if you.
    For OH it would be neat to have sonething like a groind targeted Projectile denying area that removes conditions and gap closer similar to druid staff 3 that also blasts fields but flips condis instead of healing.
    Via traits there could be something like: flipping boons shares them with your allies, would give a great GM IMO.

    I'm having a little bit of a hard time seeing it. Main hand sword I could see, but off hand looks a bit clumsy in my head. I'd have really liked Torch but scourge already has that. Hmm. A sword is more elegant which helps with that sort of Shamanistic spirit dancer type feel that the GW1 ritualist had. So perhaps Unique animations that really embody the identity of the ritualist's unique movement? It was something I always loved about their design and it would be an absolute shame to let that go. This would be so much of an easier design decision to make if necromancer just had a decent support off hand weapon... Lol..

    Yeah i think giving sword OH strong support abilities would be nice overall for the class.
    The 2 skills i proposed for OH are more or less skills that helps your allies/intervenes with your enemies action. Packing both into one could be cool too. Like traveling to one spot that creates a condi flipping projectile killing field. So one spot is free for a AoE pull or somethibg like that.

    For necro i want a crowd controlling, condi manipulating/flipping spec that shares boons to allies and heals via lifesteal.
    Reaper is more or less the power Dps meat shield and scourge is the condi dps Area denying dmg mitigator. So ritualist/specter should be the heavy CC boonsupport, something we havent got.

    I certainly agree that 5 skills would be the best in this case. I really wish staff was the support weapon we've always wanted but it just isn't. Like I said above, I wouldn't mind doubling up on weapons. If Arena net did something like Sword with focus or torch being changed on the Ritualist to better combo and function in unison with the spec that could be really cool. I'm of the opinion though though that not every profession needs every weapon available to them in the game. But that's just my opinion.

    I would really like it if they could provide some boons to allies through their skills. Protection and regeneration reliably would be wonderful. Might would be nice but not required as I feel some skills should embody weapon skills that give a temporary buff like Venoms or Ashes of the Just that have a couple of charges. My thought was always Splinter weapon which could be a buff that is applied to allies in the target area were their next 2-3 attacks strike an aoe damage burst. Or Nightmare weapon which gives life stealing. The last buff I was thinking was inspired by Vengeful weapon, Weapon of Remedy, and of course Xinrae's Weapon. Rather than just stealing life when they get struck though, it could actually just block the attack and steal life. Which would great for the necromancer since they can't really do that.

    What if necro would get a shroud and a weapon enchantment on the 3rd skill depending on which weapon is wielded? Similar to weaver or thief dualwields. Would be weird for staff though but would give atlest 4 new skills ,5 with staff included.

    Interesting proposal. I think its a neat idea for sure, but the question is how well could it be executed? Not everyone weapon will be that good on a spec like Ritualist so how would we give Value to each of them?

    Well:
    Dagger gives lifesteal, scepter boon corrupt swordboons, warhorn applies CC, Focus increases dmg and the combination out if them are the dualwield skills in weapon enchantment form. Ofc they could vary. Fir example scepter sword could transfer cobditions instead of corrupting boons and dagger sword could give direct healing and so on.
    The udea is vague and before we would get that i rather want a staff rework and make signs similar to zeals of guardian just ground targeted and every weapon gets a sign.
    Staff would get totally new skills and the dualwield skill could provide even more options.
    Another interesting condept would be if you could "swap the shroud". So it would behave similar to scourges shroud but you could swap its beahviour from offensive to defensive and depending on that and your main weapon you get a different 3rd skill.

    That's sorta what I was thinking, only instead of being reliant on weapons it would be based on the grandmaster.

  • Anchoku.8142Anchoku.8142 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 26, 2018

    Lily, your literary enthusiasm is OP. Unfortunately, I have not played GW so I had to use the Wiki, which made Ritualist remind me of a minion master using Death Magic.

    I may not understand your concept but a few random brain cells fired, spurriously, in response.

    F1-F5 would consume LF, like Scourge, to create urns/shades/banners that could buff and/or debuff.

    Utilities might be spirit-minions that can buff as well as debuff.

    In terms of GW2 mechanics, what profession mechanics are similar enough to be "lifted" to provide Ritualist-like skills to Necromancer?

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Anchoku.8142 said:
    Lily, your literary enthusiasm is OP. Unfortunately, I have not played GW so I had to use the Wiki, which made Ritualist remind me of a minion master using Death Magic.

    I may not understand your concept but a few random brain cells fired, spurriously, in response.

    F1-F5 would consume LF, like Scourge, to create urns/shades/banners that could buff and/or debuff.

    Utilities might be spirit-minions that can buff as well as debuff.

    In terms of GW2 mechanics, what profession mechanics are similar enough to be "lifted" to provide Ritualist-like skills to Necromancer?

    I'm not quite sure what you mean by "lifted. But I'll give my best interpretation. If i'm mistaken please feel free to correct my mistake.

    In terms of Mechanics, the Ritualist is most Similar to Engineer. The Big elements of the ritualist's design are their unique urns which provide some bonus to the ritualist and have a summoning effect as well as a drop effect depending on the urn. Then we have Spirits, which have some similar functionality to Engineer Gyros and Turrets. They can be explosive, hitting the field and instantly make an impact, much like shredder gyro or Blast gyro. They can Sustain as a guard sort of effect, much like Flame Turret or Net turret. They can be highly defensive, like Purge Gyro, Bulwark Gyro or Stealth Gyro. They are also healers, much like Medkit Engineer in a few ways, using internal synergies with spirits and urns to execute massive healing. Which has similarities to Engineer healing which has synergy with blast finishers and bonuses with Gyros and turrets. And lastly they have weapon spells which usually give a short burst of damage or life stealing to allies. This last one isn't something the engineer really has access to although it was in their design space consideration during the Alpha version of GW2 were their kits could be picked up by allies.

    Really what I'm looking at is seeing how the necromancer could Achieve some of the same Goals without treading on the same ground. Engineer takes a more Chaotic approach to these types of abilities, while I feel that the Main difference of Engineer and Ritualist mechanically was their speed. Engineer is very rhythmic and plays beat by beat. Its quite an involved and fast class. Ritualist can be involved too, but they are much slower and a bit more performative in their approach. So, the idea would be that how a Necromancer Ritualist elite spec could diversify itself would be through a slower support class who's abilities are singularly impactful with their synergies with having these urns or spirits rather than the engineer's low impact high synergy traits and abilities that string a long chain of heal's and support abilities.... I hope that makes sense, but I might just be rambling a bit too much.

    The Urn in GW1 was a bundle item. Bundles didn't have skills attached to them in GW1 like they do in GW2. And mechanically Urns in GW2 were supposed to be Kits, much Iike I mentioned above. But Kits are honestly not that different from Shroud or Conjure weapons. For me personally, it wouldn't be a stretch To feed Life force into an Urn to summon forth its powers in terms of flavor. But You do have a good idea there. I still feel that it should most closely resemble a Kit with life force costs, but having a dropped Urn act as a pulsing AoE buff/debuff sounds like an awesome idea.

  • Personally I'd prefer Ritualist to be a profession in its own right rather than an elite spec. I don't think it's really too similar to Engineer. They look similar on paper, but in practice, nobody plays pure turret spammer or gyro spammer Engineer because kits are too valuable - plus Engineer attack skills are nothing like Ritualist spells, and don't really synergise with the presence of turrets. The only similarity I see between healing Engineer and Restoration Ritualist is that they both do healing.

    That said, we're not likely to get new professions because of the elite spec format, and I agree that Necro is the best fit for a Ritualist elite spec. Revenant has some thematic similarities, but they're superficial and vastly outweighed by the differences (plus for my money they're weaker than the thematic similarities with the Necromancer).

    My main question about your suggestions is: where do the Ritualist's lightning spells fit into it? For me, those were an important part of the Ritualist's identity. Would they be the skills given by the urns? Or the weapon skills for the new weapon? Would the Ritualist spec change the Necro's other weapon skills to lightning spells? (Presumably just changing the visual effect.)

    Also, how would you avoid the urns being too similar to the Firebrand's tomes? I'm imagining that there would be a damage urn, a healing urn, and a support urn, and that seems very like tomes to me.

  • They could translate spirit spam into being something like the new Symmetra from Overwatch. Basically the spirits would be realitvely weak individually but you would get ammo for them so you could shoot them out and place them within a medium sized range and try to create nests of them to add up damage. This could allow for more mobility that is typically lacking in turret classes, and a faster paced combattant who could summon a bunch of spirits as they go along, and can easily replace them. And then you could have more specialty spirits that are more durable and longer lasting, possibly even mobile or at least bound to the ritualist.

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tommo Chocolate.5870 said:
    Personally I'd prefer Ritualist to be a profession in its own right rather than an elite spec. I don't think it's really too similar to Engineer. They look similar on paper, but in practice, nobody plays pure turret spammer or gyro spammer Engineer because kits are too valuable - plus Engineer attack skills are nothing like Ritualist spells, and don't really synergise with the presence of turrets. The only similarity I see between healing Engineer and Restoration Ritualist is that they both do healing.

    That said, we're not likely to get new professions because of the elite spec format, and I agree that Necro is the best fit for a Ritualist elite spec. Revenant has some thematic similarities, but they're superficial and vastly outweighed by the differences (plus for my money they're weaker than the thematic similarities with the Necromancer).

    My main question about your suggestions is: where do the Ritualist's lightning spells fit into it? For me, those were an important part of the Ritualist's identity. Would they be the skills given by the urns? Or the weapon skills for the new weapon? Would the Ritualist spec change the Necro's other weapon skills to lightning spells? (Presumably just changing the visual effect.)

    Also, how would you avoid the urns being too similar to the Firebrand's tomes? I'm imagining that there would be a damage urn, a healing urn, and a support urn, and that seems very like tomes to me.

    Lighting effects would be on their weapon of Choice and the Urn. Also their would be only one urn available at a time.

  • BlaqueFyre.5678BlaqueFyre.5678 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Ritualist falls closer to Revenant, and is thematically closer to Revenant based on ingame descriptions and certain mechanics portrayal of skills, I could see it being given as a ES but doubt it since it’s spiritual successor is already in game.

    At the person who keeps saying that Revenants aren’t close to Ritualists if you go to the links on Ritualist and Revenant respectively, the descriptions of their classes are very similar in where/how they get their powers, how they help focus their powers, and how they function, ie Channeling Spirits/Legends from the mists to supply their abilities, the blindfold is only aesthetic in game, while in the lore of both classes they share the same purpose to assist them in channeling their powers better, they have a similar class icon of an Eye, they are both support oriented and combat oriented.

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:
    Ritualist falls closer to Revenant, and is thematically closer to Revenant based on ingame descriptions and certain mechanics portrayal of skills, I could see it being given as a ES but doubt it since it’s spiritual successor is already in game.

    At the person who keeps saying that Revenants aren’t close to Ritualists if you go to the links on Ritualist and Revenant respectively, the descriptions of their classes are very similar in where/how they get their powers, how they help focus their powers, and how they function, ie Channeling Spirits/Legends from the mists to supply their abilities, the blindfold is only aesthetic in game, while in the lore of both classes they share the same purpose to assist them in channeling their powers better, they have a similar class icon of an Eye, they are both support oriented and combat oriented.

    Except the necromancer is closer. We see this in the multiple likes I've provided. Actually read it please.

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:
    Ritualist falls closer to Revenant, and is thematically closer to Revenant based on ingame descriptions and certain mechanics portrayal of skills, I could see it being given as a ES but doubt it since it’s spiritual successor is already in game.

    At the person who keeps saying that Revenants aren’t close to Ritualists if you go to the links on Ritualist and Revenant respectively, the descriptions of their classes are very similar in where/how they get their powers, how they help focus their powers, and how they function, ie Channeling Spirits/Legends from the mists to supply their abilities, the blindfold is only aesthetic in game, while in the lore of both classes they share the same purpose to assist them in channeling their powers better, they have a similar class icon of an Eye, they are both support oriented and combat oriented.

    The revenant does not perform rituals in the way they are described in game. The revenant isn't a priest and no revenant has become a priest. They don't honor their ancestors. The revenant channels legends of the mists much like the dervish channels the power of the gods. Both revenant and necromancer does commune with the mists. But the you are limiting their scope a bit too much by comparing them.m to ritualist. The ritualist only communes with spirits of the underworld and realm of torment. Which the necromancer currently does. The necromancer does channel sprits. The revenant borrows knowledge from the legends they channel as well as magic. And lose that magic and seems to lose their unique knowledge when they release them. The revenant isn't limited to the dead. We have this suggested in the story but its possible they could channel living legends trapped in the mists or even legends of the future. The revenant also uses their own body as the medium. Something the ritualist does not do nor would they ever do it. The revenant also is a martial profession. And their identity is centered around using the legends to enhance their own performance. Like a dervish does with God magic. Ritualist and necromancer are both capable of this to a lesser extent but they don't maintain the identity of the spirits they absorb. The revenant has effectively perfected a single spell. They have very poor magic abilities aside from that one spell. Canonically the necromancer performs all the rights and rultiuals the ritualist would be doing.

    And to help further drive the point home. https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/White_Mantle_Ritualist

  • BlaqueFyre.5678BlaqueFyre.5678 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 28, 2018

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:
    Ritualist falls closer to Revenant, and is thematically closer to Revenant based on ingame descriptions and certain mechanics portrayal of skills, I could see it being given as a ES but doubt it since it’s spiritual successor is already in game.

    At the person who keeps saying that Revenants aren’t close to Ritualists if you go to the links on Ritualist and Revenant respectively, the descriptions of their classes are very similar in where/how they get their powers, how they help focus their powers, and how they function, ie Channeling Spirits/Legends from the mists to supply their abilities, the blindfold is only aesthetic in game, while in the lore of both classes they share the same purpose to assist them in channeling their powers better, they have a similar class icon of an Eye, they are both support oriented and combat oriented.

    Except the necromancer is closer. We see this in the multiple likes I've provided. Actually read it please.

    I did read them, and if you read the descriptions of the classes aka portions of he classes lore, both Revenant and Revenant channel spirits from the mists, they both use blindfolds to focus their channeling, and the spirits they channel bestow their abilities to the character, and their class symbol is very similar, Necromancer don’t do either of those. And even the Ritualist page talks about how their interaction with Dead is completely different from the Necromancers...

    Again Revenants are the spiritual successor to the Ritualist.

    The Ritualist aren’t priests look at the class description, it doesn’t use that term at all.

  • BlaqueFyre.5678BlaqueFyre.5678 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 28, 2018

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:
    Ritualist falls closer to Revenant, and is thematically closer to Revenant based on ingame descriptions and certain mechanics portrayal of skills, I could see it being given as a ES but doubt it since it’s spiritual successor is already in game.

    At the person who keeps saying that Revenants aren’t close to Ritualists if you go to the links on Ritualist and Revenant respectively, the descriptions of their classes are very similar in where/how they get their powers, how they help focus their powers, and how they function, ie Channeling Spirits/Legends from the mists to supply their abilities, the blindfold is only aesthetic in game, while in the lore of both classes they share the same purpose to assist them in channeling their powers better, they have a similar class icon of an Eye, they are both support oriented and combat oriented.

    The revenant does not perform rituals in the way they are described in game. The revenant isn't a priest and no revenant has become a priest. They don't honor their ancestors. The revenant channels legends of the mists much like the dervish channels the power of the gods. Both revenant and necromancer does commune with the mists. But the you are limiting their scope a bit too much by comparing them.m to ritualist. The ritualist only communes with spirits of the underworld and realm of torment. Which the necromancer currently does. The necromancer does channel sprits. The revenant borrows knowledge from the legends they channel as well as magic. And lose that magic and seems to lose their unique knowledge when they release them. The revenant isn't limited to the dead. We have this suggested in the story but its possible they could channel living legends trapped in the mists or even legends of the future. The revenant also uses their own body as the medium. Something the ritualist does not do nor would they ever do it. The revenant also is a martial profession. And their identity is centered around using the legends to enhance their own performance. Like a dervish does with God magic. Ritualist and necromancer are both capable of this to a lesser extent but they don't maintain the identity of the spirits they absorb. The revenant has effectively perfected a single spell. They have very poor magic abilities aside from that one spell. Canonically the necromancer performs all the rights and rultiuals the ritualist would be doing.

    And to help further drive the point home. https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/White_Mantle_Ritualist

    Sorry but the name of that NPC doesn’t drive home the point since it clearly states that the Npc can be one of 4 professions and the Necromancer is one of them and why it has Necromancer skills listed and not Ritualist skills and it even states that they aren’t the ritual profession from prophecies.

    And dervishes assume an avatar of a god not channel it, while Revenants channel spirits.

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:
    Ritualist falls closer to Revenant, and is thematically closer to Revenant based on ingame descriptions and certain mechanics portrayal of skills, I could see it being given as a ES but doubt it since it’s spiritual successor is already in game.

    At the person who keeps saying that Revenants aren’t close to Ritualists if you go to the links on Ritualist and Revenant respectively, the descriptions of their classes are very similar in where/how they get their powers, how they help focus their powers, and how they function, ie Channeling Spirits/Legends from the mists to supply their abilities, the blindfold is only aesthetic in game, while in the lore of both classes they share the same purpose to assist them in channeling their powers better, they have a similar class icon of an Eye, they are both support oriented and combat oriented.

    The revenant does not perform rituals in the way they are described in game. The revenant isn't a priest and no revenant has become a priest. They don't honor their ancestors. The revenant channels legends of the mists much like the dervish channels the power of the gods. Both revenant and necromancer does commune with the mists. But the you are limiting their scope a bit too much by comparing them.m to ritualist. The ritualist only communes with spirits of the underworld and realm of torment. Which the necromancer currently does. The necromancer does channel sprits. The revenant borrows knowledge from the legends they channel as well as magic. And lose that magic and seems to lose their unique knowledge when they release them. The revenant isn't limited to the dead. We have this suggested in the story but its possible they could channel living legends trapped in the mists or even legends of the future. The revenant also uses their own body as the medium. Something the ritualist does not do nor would they ever do it. The revenant also is a martial profession. And their identity is centered around using the legends to enhance their own performance. Like a dervish does with God magic. Ritualist and necromancer are both capable of this to a lesser extent but they don't maintain the identity of the spirits they absorb. The revenant has effectively perfected a single spell. They have very poor magic abilities aside from that one spell. Canonically the necromancer performs all the rights and rultiuals the ritualist would be doing.

    And to help further drive the point home. https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/White_Mantle_Ritualist

    Sorry but the name of that NPC doesn’t drive home the point since it clearly states that the Npc can be one of 4 professions and the Necromancer is one of them and why it has Necromancer skills listed and not Ritualist skills and it even states that they aren’t the ritual profession from prophecies.

    And dervishes assume an avatar of a god not channel it, while Revenants channel spirits.

    Look at the original. They were ritualist without being ritualist class in game. Also, they were priests. I played a lot of gw1. And I know that they would often act as the priests of grenth in Cantha. It was in the GW factions panflet I believe. I have it at home but can't get to it right now. But I will find it. You're working with lacking information which explains the confusion. And the GW1 wiki is t the easiest thing to navigate.... used to spend hours on it just reading. Showering for new information.

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:
    Ritualist falls closer to Revenant, and is thematically closer to Revenant based on ingame descriptions and certain mechanics portrayal of skills, I could see it being given as a ES but doubt it since it’s spiritual successor is already in game.

    At the person who keeps saying that Revenants aren’t close to Ritualists if you go to the links on Ritualist and Revenant respectively, the descriptions of their classes are very similar in where/how they get their powers, how they help focus their powers, and how they function, ie Channeling Spirits/Legends from the mists to supply their abilities, the blindfold is only aesthetic in game, while in the lore of both classes they share the same purpose to assist them in channeling their powers better, they have a similar class icon of an Eye, they are both support oriented and combat oriented.

    The revenant does not perform rituals in the way they are described in game. The revenant isn't a priest and no revenant has become a priest. They don't honor their ancestors. The revenant channels legends of the mists much like the dervish channels the power of the gods. Both revenant and necromancer does commune with the mists. But the you are limiting their scope a bit too much by comparing them.m to ritualist. The ritualist only communes with spirits of the underworld and realm of torment. Which the necromancer currently does. The necromancer does channel sprits. The revenant borrows knowledge from the legends they channel as well as magic. And lose that magic and seems to lose their unique knowledge when they release them. The revenant isn't limited to the dead. We have this suggested in the story but its possible they could channel living legends trapped in the mists or even legends of the future. The revenant also uses their own body as the medium. Something the ritualist does not do nor would they ever do it. The revenant also is a martial profession. And their identity is centered around using the legends to enhance their own performance. Like a dervish does with God magic. Ritualist and necromancer are both capable of this to a lesser extent but they don't maintain the identity of the spirits they absorb. The revenant has effectively perfected a single spell. They have very poor magic abilities aside from that one spell. Canonically the necromancer performs all the rights and rultiuals the ritualist would be doing.

    And to help further drive the point home. https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/White_Mantle_Ritualist

    Sorry but the name of that NPC doesn’t drive home the point since it clearly states that the Npc can be one of 4 professions and the Necromancer is one of them and why it has Necromancer skills listed and not Ritualist skills and it even states that they aren’t the ritual profession from prophecies.

    And dervishes assume an avatar of a god not channel it, while Revenants channel spirits.

    For a profession that supposedly doesn't have anything in common with the necromancer they sure talk about death and harnessing the power of death a lot.... I'm reading some quotes from Ritualist NPCs from GW1.

  • BlaqueFyre.5678BlaqueFyre.5678 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:
    Ritualist falls closer to Revenant, and is thematically closer to Revenant based on ingame descriptions and certain mechanics portrayal of skills, I could see it being given as a ES but doubt it since it’s spiritual successor is already in game.

    At the person who keeps saying that Revenants aren’t close to Ritualists if you go to the links on Ritualist and Revenant respectively, the descriptions of their classes are very similar in where/how they get their powers, how they help focus their powers, and how they function, ie Channeling Spirits/Legends from the mists to supply their abilities, the blindfold is only aesthetic in game, while in the lore of both classes they share the same purpose to assist them in channeling their powers better, they have a similar class icon of an Eye, they are both support oriented and combat oriented.

    The revenant does not perform rituals in the way they are described in game. The revenant isn't a priest and no revenant has become a priest. They don't honor their ancestors. The revenant channels legends of the mists much like the dervish channels the power of the gods. Both revenant and necromancer does commune with the mists. But the you are limiting their scope a bit too much by comparing them.m to ritualist. The ritualist only communes with spirits of the underworld and realm of torment. Which the necromancer currently does. The necromancer does channel sprits. The revenant borrows knowledge from the legends they channel as well as magic. And lose that magic and seems to lose their unique knowledge when they release them. The revenant isn't limited to the dead. We have this suggested in the story but its possible they could channel living legends trapped in the mists or even legends of the future. The revenant also uses their own body as the medium. Something the ritualist does not do nor would they ever do it. The revenant also is a martial profession. And their identity is centered around using the legends to enhance their own performance. Like a dervish does with God magic. Ritualist and necromancer are both capable of this to a lesser extent but they don't maintain the identity of the spirits they absorb. The revenant has effectively perfected a single spell. They have very poor magic abilities aside from that one spell. Canonically the necromancer performs all the rights and rultiuals the ritualist would be doing.

    And to help further drive the point home. https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/White_Mantle_Ritualist

    Sorry but the name of that NPC doesn’t drive home the point since it clearly states that the Npc can be one of 4 professions and the Necromancer is one of them and why it has Necromancer skills listed and not Ritualist skills and it even states that they aren’t the ritual profession from prophecies.

    And dervishes assume an avatar of a god not channel it, while Revenants channel spirits.

    Look at the original. They were ritualist without being ritualist class in game. Also, they were priests. I played a lot of gw1. And I know that they would often act as the priests of grenth in Cantha. It was in the GW factions panflet I believe. I have it at home but can't get to it right now. But I will find it. You're working with lacking information which explains the confusion. And the GW1 wiki is t the easiest thing to navigate.... used to spend hours on it just reading. Showering for new information.

    Direct description from Anet:

    “Ritualists channel otherworldly energies that summon allies from the void. Mystic binding rituals bend those allies to the Ritualist's will. Ritualists hood their eyes to commune with spirits that grant great power and protection. The energy they channel drives Ritualist skills.”

    “The Ritualist can also use the remains of the dead to defend the living, not by reanimating corpses as a Necromancer would, but through the ritual use of urns and ashes.”

    And those excerpts are from the booklet.

    Necromancers don’t channel Spirits from the Mists Revenants do, the little excerpt that mentions “rituals” for Wells is a far cry since Wells were a skill from GW of exploiting corpses which isn’t mechanically available in GW2 so they removed that portion and made the skills work in GW2s game environment.

    And again that Npc was a Necromancer not a Ritualist, it’s just the “name” of the Npc.

  • BlaqueFyre.5678BlaqueFyre.5678 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:
    Ritualist falls closer to Revenant, and is thematically closer to Revenant based on ingame descriptions and certain mechanics portrayal of skills, I could see it being given as a ES but doubt it since it’s spiritual successor is already in game.

    At the person who keeps saying that Revenants aren’t close to Ritualists if you go to the links on Ritualist and Revenant respectively, the descriptions of their classes are very similar in where/how they get their powers, how they help focus their powers, and how they function, ie Channeling Spirits/Legends from the mists to supply their abilities, the blindfold is only aesthetic in game, while in the lore of both classes they share the same purpose to assist them in channeling their powers better, they have a similar class icon of an Eye, they are both support oriented and combat oriented.

    The revenant does not perform rituals in the way they are described in game. The revenant isn't a priest and no revenant has become a priest. They don't honor their ancestors. The revenant channels legends of the mists much like the dervish channels the power of the gods. Both revenant and necromancer does commune with the mists. But the you are limiting their scope a bit too much by comparing them.m to ritualist. The ritualist only communes with spirits of the underworld and realm of torment. Which the necromancer currently does. The necromancer does channel sprits. The revenant borrows knowledge from the legends they channel as well as magic. And lose that magic and seems to lose their unique knowledge when they release them. The revenant isn't limited to the dead. We have this suggested in the story but its possible they could channel living legends trapped in the mists or even legends of the future. The revenant also uses their own body as the medium. Something the ritualist does not do nor would they ever do it. The revenant also is a martial profession. And their identity is centered around using the legends to enhance their own performance. Like a dervish does with God magic. Ritualist and necromancer are both capable of this to a lesser extent but they don't maintain the identity of the spirits they absorb. The revenant has effectively perfected a single spell. They have very poor magic abilities aside from that one spell. Canonically the necromancer performs all the rights and rultiuals the ritualist would be doing.

    And to help further drive the point home. https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/White_Mantle_Ritualist

    Sorry but the name of that NPC doesn’t drive home the point since it clearly states that the Npc can be one of 4 professions and the Necromancer is one of them and why it has Necromancer skills listed and not Ritualist skills and it even states that they aren’t the ritual profession from prophecies.

    And dervishes assume an avatar of a god not channel it, while Revenants channel spirits.

    For a profession that supposedly doesn't have anything in common with the necromancer they sure talk about death and harnessing the power of death a lot.... I'm reading some quotes from Ritualist NPCs from GW1.

    They channel spirits which are from the dead, so yeah they would talk about the dead, but they aren’t using death magic..... Necromancers don’t do that, they Reanimate corpses and exploit those while using Death Magic..

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:
    Ritualist falls closer to Revenant, and is thematically closer to Revenant based on ingame descriptions and certain mechanics portrayal of skills, I could see it being given as a ES but doubt it since it’s spiritual successor is already in game.

    At the person who keeps saying that Revenants aren’t close to Ritualists if you go to the links on Ritualist and Revenant respectively, the descriptions of their classes are very similar in where/how they get their powers, how they help focus their powers, and how they function, ie Channeling Spirits/Legends from the mists to supply their abilities, the blindfold is only aesthetic in game, while in the lore of both classes they share the same purpose to assist them in channeling their powers better, they have a similar class icon of an Eye, they are both support oriented and combat oriented.

    The revenant does not perform rituals in the way they are described in game. The revenant isn't a priest and no revenant has become a priest. They don't honor their ancestors. The revenant channels legends of the mists much like the dervish channels the power of the gods. Both revenant and necromancer does commune with the mists. But the you are limiting their scope a bit too much by comparing them.m to ritualist. The ritualist only communes with spirits of the underworld and realm of torment. Which the necromancer currently does. The necromancer does channel sprits. The revenant borrows knowledge from the legends they channel as well as magic. And lose that magic and seems to lose their unique knowledge when they release them. The revenant isn't limited to the dead. We have this suggested in the story but its possible they could channel living legends trapped in the mists or even legends of the future. The revenant also uses their own body as the medium. Something the ritualist does not do nor would they ever do it. The revenant also is a martial profession. And their identity is centered around using the legends to enhance their own performance. Like a dervish does with God magic. Ritualist and necromancer are both capable of this to a lesser extent but they don't maintain the identity of the spirits they absorb. The revenant has effectively perfected a single spell. They have very poor magic abilities aside from that one spell. Canonically the necromancer performs all the rights and rultiuals the ritualist would be doing.

    And to help further drive the point home. https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/White_Mantle_Ritualist

    Sorry but the name of that NPC doesn’t drive home the point since it clearly states that the Npc can be one of 4 professions and the Necromancer is one of them and why it has Necromancer skills listed and not Ritualist skills and it even states that they aren’t the ritual profession from prophecies.

    And dervishes assume an avatar of a god not channel it, while Revenants channel spirits.

    For a profession that supposedly doesn't have anything in common with the necromancer they sure talk about death and harnessing the power of death a lot.... I'm reading some quotes from Ritualist NPCs from GW1.

    They channel spirits which are from the dead, so yeah they would talk about the dead, but they aren’t using death magic..... Necromancers don’t do that, they Reanimate corpses and exploit those while using Death Magic..

    The necromancer absolutely does channel spirits. This is cannon. It happens in the personal story. Hell, Trahearne does it right next to you. And if you actually read Last straw Marjory channels a spirit of a young boy to help her solve his murder. You can't say you've read the links if you've overlooked that major detail.

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:
    Ritualist falls closer to Revenant, and is thematically closer to Revenant based on ingame descriptions and certain mechanics portrayal of skills, I could see it being given as a ES but doubt it since it’s spiritual successor is already in game.

    At the person who keeps saying that Revenants aren’t close to Ritualists if you go to the links on Ritualist and Revenant respectively, the descriptions of their classes are very similar in where/how they get their powers, how they help focus their powers, and how they function, ie Channeling Spirits/Legends from the mists to supply their abilities, the blindfold is only aesthetic in game, while in the lore of both classes they share the same purpose to assist them in channeling their powers better, they have a similar class icon of an Eye, they are both support oriented and combat oriented.

    The revenant does not perform rituals in the way they are described in game. The revenant isn't a priest and no revenant has become a priest. They don't honor their ancestors. The revenant channels legends of the mists much like the dervish channels the power of the gods. Both revenant and necromancer does commune with the mists. But the you are limiting their scope a bit too much by comparing them.m to ritualist. The ritualist only communes with spirits of the underworld and realm of torment. Which the necromancer currently does. The necromancer does channel sprits. The revenant borrows knowledge from the legends they channel as well as magic. And lose that magic and seems to lose their unique knowledge when they release them. The revenant isn't limited to the dead. We have this suggested in the story but its possible they could channel living legends trapped in the mists or even legends of the future. The revenant also uses their own body as the medium. Something the ritualist does not do nor would they ever do it. The revenant also is a martial profession. And their identity is centered around using the legends to enhance their own performance. Like a dervish does with God magic. Ritualist and necromancer are both capable of this to a lesser extent but they don't maintain the identity of the spirits they absorb. The revenant has effectively perfected a single spell. They have very poor magic abilities aside from that one spell. Canonically the necromancer performs all the rights and rultiuals the ritualist would be doing.

    And to help further drive the point home. https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/White_Mantle_Ritualist

    Sorry but the name of that NPC doesn’t drive home the point since it clearly states that the Npc can be one of 4 professions and the Necromancer is one of them and why it has Necromancer skills listed and not Ritualist skills and it even states that they aren’t the ritual profession from prophecies.

    And dervishes assume an avatar of a god not channel it, while Revenants channel spirits.

    For a profession that supposedly doesn't have anything in common with the necromancer they sure talk about death and harnessing the power of death a lot.... I'm reading some quotes from Ritualist NPCs from GW1.

    They channel spirits which are from the dead, so yeah they would talk about the dead, but they aren’t using death magic..... Necromancers don’t do that, they Reanimate corpses and exploit those while using Death Magic..

    Life force is a special type of energy that necromancers draw from their enemies. Once they’ve collected enough life force, necromancers can activate their Death Shroud, entering a spirit form. Life force can be gathered from certain weapon attacks and especially from deaths that happen near the necromancer.

    In Death Shroud, a necromancer’s stored life force acts as a secondary health bar, and they gain access to a special set of skills that can only be used in Death Shroud.

    It's like you didn't even read any of it. Seriously death shroud is literally made of spirits.

  • BlaqueFyre.5678BlaqueFyre.5678 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:
    Ritualist falls closer to Revenant, and is thematically closer to Revenant based on ingame descriptions and certain mechanics portrayal of skills, I could see it being given as a ES but doubt it since it’s spiritual successor is already in game.

    At the person who keeps saying that Revenants aren’t close to Ritualists if you go to the links on Ritualist and Revenant respectively, the descriptions of their classes are very similar in where/how they get their powers, how they help focus their powers, and how they function, ie Channeling Spirits/Legends from the mists to supply their abilities, the blindfold is only aesthetic in game, while in the lore of both classes they share the same purpose to assist them in channeling their powers better, they have a similar class icon of an Eye, they are both support oriented and combat oriented.

    The revenant does not perform rituals in the way they are described in game. The revenant isn't a priest and no revenant has become a priest. They don't honor their ancestors. The revenant channels legends of the mists much like the dervish channels the power of the gods. Both revenant and necromancer does commune with the mists. But the you are limiting their scope a bit too much by comparing them.m to ritualist. The ritualist only communes with spirits of the underworld and realm of torment. Which the necromancer currently does. The necromancer does channel sprits. The revenant borrows knowledge from the legends they channel as well as magic. And lose that magic and seems to lose their unique knowledge when they release them. The revenant isn't limited to the dead. We have this suggested in the story but its possible they could channel living legends trapped in the mists or even legends of the future. The revenant also uses their own body as the medium. Something the ritualist does not do nor would they ever do it. The revenant also is a martial profession. And their identity is centered around using the legends to enhance their own performance. Like a dervish does with God magic. Ritualist and necromancer are both capable of this to a lesser extent but they don't maintain the identity of the spirits they absorb. The revenant has effectively perfected a single spell. They have very poor magic abilities aside from that one spell. Canonically the necromancer performs all the rights and rultiuals the ritualist would be doing.

    And to help further drive the point home. https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/White_Mantle_Ritualist

    Sorry but the name of that NPC doesn’t drive home the point since it clearly states that the Npc can be one of 4 professions and the Necromancer is one of them and why it has Necromancer skills listed and not Ritualist skills and it even states that they aren’t the ritual profession from prophecies.

    And dervishes assume an avatar of a god not channel it, while Revenants channel spirits.

    For a profession that supposedly doesn't have anything in common with the necromancer they sure talk about death and harnessing the power of death a lot.... I'm reading some quotes from Ritualist NPCs from GW1.

    They channel spirits which are from the dead, so yeah they would talk about the dead, but they aren’t using death magic..... Necromancers don’t do that, they Reanimate corpses and exploit those while using Death Magic..

    The necromancer absolutely does channel spirits. This is cannon. It happens in the personal story. Hell, Trahearne does it right next to you. And if you actually read Last straw Marjory channels a spirit of a young boy to help her solve his murder. You can't say you've read the links if you've overlooked that major detail.

    The little boy wasn’t being channeled... that’s like saying anyone that interacts with the spirits of Ascalon are channeling them...

    And Traeherne wasn’t channelinng spirits he channels the magic of Orr when he performed the spell that cleansed the waters of Orr...

    For someone that says they know the lore has some gaps and leaps and bounds.

  • BlaqueFyre.5678BlaqueFyre.5678 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:
    Ritualist falls closer to Revenant, and is thematically closer to Revenant based on ingame descriptions and certain mechanics portrayal of skills, I could see it being given as a ES but doubt it since it’s spiritual successor is already in game.

    At the person who keeps saying that Revenants aren’t close to Ritualists if you go to the links on Ritualist and Revenant respectively, the descriptions of their classes are very similar in where/how they get their powers, how they help focus their powers, and how they function, ie Channeling Spirits/Legends from the mists to supply their abilities, the blindfold is only aesthetic in game, while in the lore of both classes they share the same purpose to assist them in channeling their powers better, they have a similar class icon of an Eye, they are both support oriented and combat oriented.

    The revenant does not perform rituals in the way they are described in game. The revenant isn't a priest and no revenant has become a priest. They don't honor their ancestors. The revenant channels legends of the mists much like the dervish channels the power of the gods. Both revenant and necromancer does commune with the mists. But the you are limiting their scope a bit too much by comparing them.m to ritualist. The ritualist only communes with spirits of the underworld and realm of torment. Which the necromancer currently does. The necromancer does channel sprits. The revenant borrows knowledge from the legends they channel as well as magic. And lose that magic and seems to lose their unique knowledge when they release them. The revenant isn't limited to the dead. We have this suggested in the story but its possible they could channel living legends trapped in the mists or even legends of the future. The revenant also uses their own body as the medium. Something the ritualist does not do nor would they ever do it. The revenant also is a martial profession. And their identity is centered around using the legends to enhance their own performance. Like a dervish does with God magic. Ritualist and necromancer are both capable of this to a lesser extent but they don't maintain the identity of the spirits they absorb. The revenant has effectively perfected a single spell. They have very poor magic abilities aside from that one spell. Canonically the necromancer performs all the rights and rultiuals the ritualist would be doing.

    And to help further drive the point home. https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/White_Mantle_Ritualist

    Sorry but the name of that NPC doesn’t drive home the point since it clearly states that the Npc can be one of 4 professions and the Necromancer is one of them and why it has Necromancer skills listed and not Ritualist skills and it even states that they aren’t the ritual profession from prophecies.

    And dervishes assume an avatar of a god not channel it, while Revenants channel spirits.

    For a profession that supposedly doesn't have anything in common with the necromancer they sure talk about death and harnessing the power of death a lot.... I'm reading some quotes from Ritualist NPCs from GW1.

    They channel spirits which are from the dead, so yeah they would talk about the dead, but they aren’t using death magic..... Necromancers don’t do that, they Reanimate corpses and exploit those while using Death Magic..

    Life force is a special type of energy that necromancers draw from their enemies. Once they’ve collected enough life force, necromancers can activate their Death Shroud, entering a spirit form. Life force can be gathered from certain weapon attacks and especially from deaths that happen near the necromancer.

    In Death Shroud, a necromancer’s stored life force acts as a secondary health bar, and they gain access to a special set of skills that can only be used in Death Shroud.

    It's like you didn't even read any of it. Seriously death shroud is literally made of spirits.

    That doesn’t say Death Shroud is made of spirits that saying a spirit form not channeling a spirit or made of spirits,... leaps and bounds.

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:
    Ritualist falls closer to Revenant, and is thematically closer to Revenant based on ingame descriptions and certain mechanics portrayal of skills, I could see it being given as a ES but doubt it since it’s spiritual successor is already in game.

    At the person who keeps saying that Revenants aren’t close to Ritualists if you go to the links on Ritualist and Revenant respectively, the descriptions of their classes are very similar in where/how they get their powers, how they help focus their powers, and how they function, ie Channeling Spirits/Legends from the mists to supply their abilities, the blindfold is only aesthetic in game, while in the lore of both classes they share the same purpose to assist them in channeling their powers better, they have a similar class icon of an Eye, they are both support oriented and combat oriented.

    The revenant does not perform rituals in the way they are described in game. The revenant isn't a priest and no revenant has become a priest. They don't honor their ancestors. The revenant channels legends of the mists much like the dervish channels the power of the gods. Both revenant and necromancer does commune with the mists. But the you are limiting their scope a bit too much by comparing them.m to ritualist. The ritualist only communes with spirits of the underworld and realm of torment. Which the necromancer currently does. The necromancer does channel sprits. The revenant borrows knowledge from the legends they channel as well as magic. And lose that magic and seems to lose their unique knowledge when they release them. The revenant isn't limited to the dead. We have this suggested in the story but its possible they could channel living legends trapped in the mists or even legends of the future. The revenant also uses their own body as the medium. Something the ritualist does not do nor would they ever do it. The revenant also is a martial profession. And their identity is centered around using the legends to enhance their own performance. Like a dervish does with God magic. Ritualist and necromancer are both capable of this to a lesser extent but they don't maintain the identity of the spirits they absorb. The revenant has effectively perfected a single spell. They have very poor magic abilities aside from that one spell. Canonically the necromancer performs all the rights and rultiuals the ritualist would be doing.

    And to help further drive the point home. https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/White_Mantle_Ritualist

    Sorry but the name of that NPC doesn’t drive home the point since it clearly states that the Npc can be one of 4 professions and the Necromancer is one of them and why it has Necromancer skills listed and not Ritualist skills and it even states that they aren’t the ritual profession from prophecies.

    And dervishes assume an avatar of a god not channel it, while Revenants channel spirits.

    For a profession that supposedly doesn't have anything in common with the necromancer they sure talk about death and harnessing the power of death a lot.... I'm reading some quotes from Ritualist NPCs from GW1.

    They channel spirits which are from the dead, so yeah they would talk about the dead, but they aren’t using death magic..... Necromancers don’t do that, they Reanimate corpses and exploit those while using Death Magic..

    The necromancer absolutely does channel spirits. This is cannon. It happens in the personal story. Hell, Trahearne does it right next to you. And if you actually read Last straw Marjory channels a spirit of a young boy to help her solve his murder. You can't say you've read the links if you've overlooked that major detail.

    The little boy wasn’t being channeled... that’s like saying anyone that interacts with the spirits of Ascalon are channeling them...

    And Traeherne wasn’t channelinng spirits he channels the magic of Orr when he performed the spell that cleansed the waters of Orr...

    For someone that says they know the lore has some gaps and leaps and bounds.

    I wasn't talking about that part. It was earlier in the story. He channels beings from the underworld when the group was surrounded by risen. Also there was a risen lich. Don't remember the story name.

    Also, she did channel his spirit. He wasn't just roaming the streets like that. And its stated that another necromancer banished him. Something that ritualists are capable of doing. You're really trying to split hairs to disprove it, but the facts don't lie. Necromancer channel the dead, they commune with spirits, they call forth energies and beings from the underworld and realm of torment. Clearly we can see the only difference between them is the ritualist is just more limited in the scope of what they can do.

  • BlaqueFyre.5678BlaqueFyre.5678 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:
    Ritualist falls closer to Revenant, and is thematically closer to Revenant based on ingame descriptions and certain mechanics portrayal of skills, I could see it being given as a ES but doubt it since it’s spiritual successor is already in game.

    At the person who keeps saying that Revenants aren’t close to Ritualists if you go to the links on Ritualist and Revenant respectively, the descriptions of their classes are very similar in where/how they get their powers, how they help focus their powers, and how they function, ie Channeling Spirits/Legends from the mists to supply their abilities, the blindfold is only aesthetic in game, while in the lore of both classes they share the same purpose to assist them in channeling their powers better, they have a similar class icon of an Eye, they are both support oriented and combat oriented.

    The revenant does not perform rituals in the way they are described in game. The revenant isn't a priest and no revenant has become a priest. They don't honor their ancestors. The revenant channels legends of the mists much like the dervish channels the power of the gods. Both revenant and necromancer does commune with the mists. But the you are limiting their scope a bit too much by comparing them.m to ritualist. The ritualist only communes with spirits of the underworld and realm of torment. Which the necromancer currently does. The necromancer does channel sprits. The revenant borrows knowledge from the legends they channel as well as magic. And lose that magic and seems to lose their unique knowledge when they release them. The revenant isn't limited to the dead. We have this suggested in the story but its possible they could channel living legends trapped in the mists or even legends of the future. The revenant also uses their own body as the medium. Something the ritualist does not do nor would they ever do it. The revenant also is a martial profession. And their identity is centered around using the legends to enhance their own performance. Like a dervish does with God magic. Ritualist and necromancer are both capable of this to a lesser extent but they don't maintain the identity of the spirits they absorb. The revenant has effectively perfected a single spell. They have very poor magic abilities aside from that one spell. Canonically the necromancer performs all the rights and rultiuals the ritualist would be doing.

    And to help further drive the point home. https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/White_Mantle_Ritualist

    Sorry but the name of that NPC doesn’t drive home the point since it clearly states that the Npc can be one of 4 professions and the Necromancer is one of them and why it has Necromancer skills listed and not Ritualist skills and it even states that they aren’t the ritual profession from prophecies.

    And dervishes assume an avatar of a god not channel it, while Revenants channel spirits.

    For a profession that supposedly doesn't have anything in common with the necromancer they sure talk about death and harnessing the power of death a lot.... I'm reading some quotes from Ritualist NPCs from GW1.

    They channel spirits which are from the dead, so yeah they would talk about the dead, but they aren’t using death magic..... Necromancers don’t do that, they Reanimate corpses and exploit those while using Death Magic..

    The necromancer absolutely does channel spirits. This is cannon. It happens in the personal story. Hell, Trahearne does it right next to you. And if you actually read Last straw Marjory channels a spirit of a young boy to help her solve his murder. You can't say you've read the links if you've overlooked that major detail.

    The little boy wasn’t being channeled... that’s like saying anyone that interacts with the spirits of Ascalon are channeling them...

    And Traeherne wasn’t channelinng spirits he channels the magic of Orr when he performed the spell that cleansed the waters of Orr...

    For someone that says they know the lore has some gaps and leaps and bounds.

    I wasn't talking about that part. It was earlier in the story. He channels beings from the underworld when the group was surrounded by risen. Also there was a risen lich. Don't remember the story name.

    Also, she did channel his spirit. He wasn't just roaming the streets like that. And its stated that another necromancer banished him. Something that ritualists are capable of doing. You're really trying to split hairs to disprove it, but the facts don't lie. Necromancer channel the dead, they commune with spirits, they call forth energies and beings from the underworld and realm of torment. Clearly we can see the only difference between them is the ritualist is just more limited in the scope of what they can do.

    They don’t channel the dead they Reanimate the dead, and you keep making these claims without the parts to back them up Traeherne never channeled a Lich, the dead kids Spirit was there right after his death not from her channeling his spirit into herself or her magic she didn’t call upon his spirit from the Mists, you are stretching to make something fit that clearly doesn’t.

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:
    Ritualist falls closer to Revenant, and is thematically closer to Revenant based on ingame descriptions and certain mechanics portrayal of skills, I could see it being given as a ES but doubt it since it’s spiritual successor is already in game.

    At the person who keeps saying that Revenants aren’t close to Ritualists if you go to the links on Ritualist and Revenant respectively, the descriptions of their classes are very similar in where/how they get their powers, how they help focus their powers, and how they function, ie Channeling Spirits/Legends from the mists to supply their abilities, the blindfold is only aesthetic in game, while in the lore of both classes they share the same purpose to assist them in channeling their powers better, they have a similar class icon of an Eye, they are both support oriented and combat oriented.

    The revenant does not perform rituals in the way they are described in game. The revenant isn't a priest and no revenant has become a priest. They don't honor their ancestors. The revenant channels legends of the mists much like the dervish channels the power of the gods. Both revenant and necromancer does commune with the mists. But the you are limiting their scope a bit too much by comparing them.m to ritualist. The ritualist only communes with spirits of the underworld and realm of torment. Which the necromancer currently does. The necromancer does channel sprits. The revenant borrows knowledge from the legends they channel as well as magic. And lose that magic and seems to lose their unique knowledge when they release them. The revenant isn't limited to the dead. We have this suggested in the story but its possible they could channel living legends trapped in the mists or even legends of the future. The revenant also uses their own body as the medium. Something the ritualist does not do nor would they ever do it. The revenant also is a martial profession. And their identity is centered around using the legends to enhance their own performance. Like a dervish does with God magic. Ritualist and necromancer are both capable of this to a lesser extent but they don't maintain the identity of the spirits they absorb. The revenant has effectively perfected a single spell. They have very poor magic abilities aside from that one spell. Canonically the necromancer performs all the rights and rultiuals the ritualist would be doing.

    And to help further drive the point home. https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/White_Mantle_Ritualist

    Sorry but the name of that NPC doesn’t drive home the point since it clearly states that the Npc can be one of 4 professions and the Necromancer is one of them and why it has Necromancer skills listed and not Ritualist skills and it even states that they aren’t the ritual profession from prophecies.

    And dervishes assume an avatar of a god not channel it, while Revenants channel spirits.

    For a profession that supposedly doesn't have anything in common with the necromancer they sure talk about death and harnessing the power of death a lot.... I'm reading some quotes from Ritualist NPCs from GW1.

    They channel spirits which are from the dead, so yeah they would talk about the dead, but they aren’t using death magic..... Necromancers don’t do that, they Reanimate corpses and exploit those while using Death Magic..

    The necromancer absolutely does channel spirits. This is cannon. It happens in the personal story. Hell, Trahearne does it right next to you. And if you actually read Last straw Marjory channels a spirit of a young boy to help her solve his murder. You can't say you've read the links if you've overlooked that major detail.

    The little boy wasn’t being channeled... that’s like saying anyone that interacts with the spirits of Ascalon are channeling them...

    And Traeherne wasn’t channelinng spirits he channels the magic of Orr when he performed the spell that cleansed the waters of Orr...

    For someone that says they know the lore has some gaps and leaps and bounds.

    I wasn't talking about that part. It was earlier in the story. He channels beings from the underworld when the group was surrounded by risen. Also there was a risen lich. Don't remember the story name.

    Also, she did channel his spirit. He wasn't just roaming the streets like that. And its stated that another necromancer banished him. Something that ritualists are capable of doing. You're really trying to split hairs to disprove it, but the facts don't lie. Necromancer channel the dead, they commune with spirits, they call forth energies and beings from the underworld and realm of torment. Clearly we can see the only difference between them is the ritualist is just more limited in the scope of what they can do.

    They don’t channel the dead they Reanimate the dead, and you keep making these claims without the parts to back them up Traeherne never channeled a Lich, the dead kids Spirit was there right after his death not from her channeling his spirit into herself or her magic she didn’t call upon his spirit from the Mists, you are stretching to make something fit that clearly doesn’t.

    Yes they do. Read the skill descriptions. They say summon. The necromancer from gw2 doesn't reanimate corpses anymore. They channel them from the underworld. Cannon. I believe there was an AMA about it before. But again you are just factually wrong.

  • BlaqueFyre.5678BlaqueFyre.5678 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:
    Ritualist falls closer to Revenant, and is thematically closer to Revenant based on ingame descriptions and certain mechanics portrayal of skills, I could see it being given as a ES but doubt it since it’s spiritual successor is already in game.

    At the person who keeps saying that Revenants aren’t close to Ritualists if you go to the links on Ritualist and Revenant respectively, the descriptions of their classes are very similar in where/how they get their powers, how they help focus their powers, and how they function, ie Channeling Spirits/Legends from the mists to supply their abilities, the blindfold is only aesthetic in game, while in the lore of both classes they share the same purpose to assist them in channeling their powers better, they have a similar class icon of an Eye, they are both support oriented and combat oriented.

    The revenant does not perform rituals in the way they are described in game. The revenant isn't a priest and no revenant has become a priest. They don't honor their ancestors. The revenant channels legends of the mists much like the dervish channels the power of the gods. Both revenant and necromancer does commune with the mists. But the you are limiting their scope a bit too much by comparing them.m to ritualist. The ritualist only communes with spirits of the underworld and realm of torment. Which the necromancer currently does. The necromancer does channel sprits. The revenant borrows knowledge from the legends they channel as well as magic. And lose that magic and seems to lose their unique knowledge when they release them. The revenant isn't limited to the dead. We have this suggested in the story but its possible they could channel living legends trapped in the mists or even legends of the future. The revenant also uses their own body as the medium. Something the ritualist does not do nor would they ever do it. The revenant also is a martial profession. And their identity is centered around using the legends to enhance their own performance. Like a dervish does with God magic. Ritualist and necromancer are both capable of this to a lesser extent but they don't maintain the identity of the spirits they absorb. The revenant has effectively perfected a single spell. They have very poor magic abilities aside from that one spell. Canonically the necromancer performs all the rights and rultiuals the ritualist would be doing.

    And to help further drive the point home. https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/White_Mantle_Ritualist

    Sorry but the name of that NPC doesn’t drive home the point since it clearly states that the Npc can be one of 4 professions and the Necromancer is one of them and why it has Necromancer skills listed and not Ritualist skills and it even states that they aren’t the ritual profession from prophecies.

    And dervishes assume an avatar of a god not channel it, while Revenants channel spirits.

    For a profession that supposedly doesn't have anything in common with the necromancer they sure talk about death and harnessing the power of death a lot.... I'm reading some quotes from Ritualist NPCs from GW1.

    They channel spirits which are from the dead, so yeah they would talk about the dead, but they aren’t using death magic..... Necromancers don’t do that, they Reanimate corpses and exploit those while using Death Magic..

    The necromancer absolutely does channel spirits. This is cannon. It happens in the personal story. Hell, Trahearne does it right next to you. And if you actually read Last straw Marjory channels a spirit of a young boy to help her solve his murder. You can't say you've read the links if you've overlooked that major detail.

    The little boy wasn’t being channeled... that’s like saying anyone that interacts with the spirits of Ascalon are channeling them...

    And Traeherne wasn’t channelinng spirits he channels the magic of Orr when he performed the spell that cleansed the waters of Orr...

    For someone that says they know the lore has some gaps and leaps and bounds.

    I wasn't talking about that part. It was earlier in the story. He channels beings from the underworld when the group was surrounded by risen. Also there was a risen lich. Don't remember the story name.

    Also, she did channel his spirit. He wasn't just roaming the streets like that. And its stated that another necromancer banished him. Something that ritualists are capable of doing. You're really trying to split hairs to disprove it, but the facts don't lie. Necromancer channel the dead, they commune with spirits, they call forth energies and beings from the underworld and realm of torment. Clearly we can see the only difference between them is the ritualist is just more limited in the scope of what they can do.

    They don’t channel the dead they Reanimate the dead, and you keep making these claims without the parts to back them up Traeherne never channeled a Lich, the dead kids Spirit was there right after his death not from her channeling his spirit into herself or her magic she didn’t call upon his spirit from the Mists, you are stretching to make something fit that clearly doesn’t.

    Yes they do. Read the skill descriptions. They say summon. The necromancer from gw2 doesn't reanimate corpses anymore. They channel them from the underworld. Cannon. I believe there was an AMA about it before. But again you are just factually wrong.

    Summoning isn’t channeling.... and it doesn’t say that they are summoned from the Mists, and minions aren’t Spirits the only one close would be Shadow Fiend. And remember corpses aren’t exploitable objects due to game Engine and mechanics so no reanimating the minions from the actual dead bodies, same as how wells just erupt from the ground and not exploitable dead bodies.

    Please show me where it says that Necromancers channel Spirits from the Mists to fuel their spells.

    Only one class in Gw2 has that description on their magic.

    Please link the AMA again another claim without the link to them stating that.

  • ethanzephyr.7298ethanzephyr.7298 Member ✭✭✭

    Pragmatically, it's more likely to be given to Revenant. Razah is basically the grandfather of the class, they still have neither scepter nor focus, and possibly could give them kits in the form of urns, giving them a multitude of skill options. And we all know how Revenants complain about build diversity... ;)

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:
    Ritualist falls closer to Revenant, and is thematically closer to Revenant based on ingame descriptions and certain mechanics portrayal of skills, I could see it being given as a ES but doubt it since it’s spiritual successor is already in game.

    At the person who keeps saying that Revenants aren’t close to Ritualists if you go to the links on Ritualist and Revenant respectively, the descriptions of their classes are very similar in where/how they get their powers, how they help focus their powers, and how they function, ie Channeling Spirits/Legends from the mists to supply their abilities, the blindfold is only aesthetic in game, while in the lore of both classes they share the same purpose to assist them in channeling their powers better, they have a similar class icon of an Eye, they are both support oriented and combat oriented.

    The revenant does not perform rituals in the way they are described in game. The revenant isn't a priest and no revenant has become a priest. They don't honor their ancestors. The revenant channels legends of the mists much like the dervish channels the power of the gods. Both revenant and necromancer does commune with the mists. But the you are limiting their scope a bit too much by comparing them.m to ritualist. The ritualist only communes with spirits of the underworld and realm of torment. Which the necromancer currently does. The necromancer does channel sprits. The revenant borrows knowledge from the legends they channel as well as magic. And lose that magic and seems to lose their unique knowledge when they release them. The revenant isn't limited to the dead. We have this suggested in the story but its possible they could channel living legends trapped in the mists or even legends of the future. The revenant also uses their own body as the medium. Something the ritualist does not do nor would they ever do it. The revenant also is a martial profession. And their identity is centered around using the legends to enhance their own performance. Like a dervish does with God magic. Ritualist and necromancer are both capable of this to a lesser extent but they don't maintain the identity of the spirits they absorb. The revenant has effectively perfected a single spell. They have very poor magic abilities aside from that one spell. Canonically the necromancer performs all the rights and rultiuals the ritualist would be doing.

    And to help further drive the point home. https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/White_Mantle_Ritualist

    Sorry but the name of that NPC doesn’t drive home the point since it clearly states that the Npc can be one of 4 professions and the Necromancer is one of them and why it has Necromancer skills listed and not Ritualist skills and it even states that they aren’t the ritual profession from prophecies.

    And dervishes assume an avatar of a god not channel it, while Revenants channel spirits.

    For a profession that supposedly doesn't have anything in common with the necromancer they sure talk about death and harnessing the power of death a lot.... I'm reading some quotes from Ritualist NPCs from GW1.

    They channel spirits which are from the dead, so yeah they would talk about the dead, but they aren’t using death magic..... Necromancers don’t do that, they Reanimate corpses and exploit those while using Death Magic..

    The necromancer absolutely does channel spirits. This is cannon. It happens in the personal story. Hell, Trahearne does it right next to you. And if you actually read Last straw Marjory channels a spirit of a young boy to help her solve his murder. You can't say you've read the links if you've overlooked that major detail.

    The little boy wasn’t being channeled... that’s like saying anyone that interacts with the spirits of Ascalon are channeling them...

    And Traeherne wasn’t channelinng spirits he channels the magic of Orr when he performed the spell that cleansed the waters of Orr...

    For someone that says they know the lore has some gaps and leaps and bounds.

    I wasn't talking about that part. It was earlier in the story. He channels beings from the underworld when the group was surrounded by risen. Also there was a risen lich. Don't remember the story name.

    Also, she did channel his spirit. He wasn't just roaming the streets like that. And its stated that another necromancer banished him. Something that ritualists are capable of doing. You're really trying to split hairs to disprove it, but the facts don't lie. Necromancer channel the dead, they commune with spirits, they call forth energies and beings from the underworld and realm of torment. Clearly we can see the only difference between them is the ritualist is just more limited in the scope of what they can do.

    They don’t channel the dead they Reanimate the dead, and you keep making these claims without the parts to back them up Traeherne never channeled a Lich, the dead kids Spirit was there right after his death not from her channeling his spirit into herself or her magic she didn’t call upon his spirit from the Mists, you are stretching to make something fit that clearly doesn’t.

    Yes they do. Read the skill descriptions. They say summon. The necromancer from gw2 doesn't reanimate corpses anymore. They channel them from the underworld. Cannon. I believe there was an AMA about it before. But again you are just factually wrong.

    Summoning isn’t channeling.... and it doesn’t say that they are summoned from the Mists, and minions aren’t Spirits the only one close would be Shadow Fiend. And remember corpses aren’t exploitable objects due to game Engine and mechanics so no reanimating the minions from the actual dead bodies, same as how wells just erupt from the ground and not exploitable dead bodies.

    Please show me where it says that Necromancers channel Spirits from the Mists to fuel their spells.

    Only one class in Gw2 has that description on their magic.

    Please link the AMA again another claim without the link to them stating that.

    Actually They do. It's in the names of their skills. Spiteful spirit was a pretty popular one in gw1. You have your proof all over the game. You're just ignoring it. Blatantly for no reason other than a rev bias. Also I said I believe. Trying to find a minor comment back in 2012 would be like trying to find a needle in a haystack. Which they did talk about the ritualist being assimilated into other professions. Primarily necromancer and some guarding and a bit for ranger and maybe elementalist.

    Also to channel something is to direct towards something or some place. So yes, summoning is channeling.

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ethanzephyr.7298 said:
    Pragmatically, it's more likely to be given to Revenant. Razah is basically the grandfather of the class, they still have neither scepter nor focus, and possibly could give them kits in the form of urns, giving them a multitude of skill options. And we all know how Revenants complain about build diversity... ;)

    Pragmatically it's best given to necromancer. Revenant got the closet thing they're going to get to ritualist and it plays nothing like a ritualist. The revenant players can't even justify ritualist without channeling a ritualist legend. Which he'll at that point they could just channel a necromancer and be done with it. Mechanically the list of problems the rev would have with such a slow moving, preparation based support healer spec the rev suggestions I've read don't even try. They request basically what was already given to them in Kalla.

  • BlaqueFyre.5678BlaqueFyre.5678 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 28, 2018

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:
    Ritualist falls closer to Revenant, and is thematically closer to Revenant based on ingame descriptions and certain mechanics portrayal of skills, I could see it being given as a ES but doubt it since it’s spiritual successor is already in game.

    At the person who keeps saying that Revenants aren’t close to Ritualists if you go to the links on Ritualist and Revenant respectively, the descriptions of their classes are very similar in where/how they get their powers, how they help focus their powers, and how they function, ie Channeling Spirits/Legends from the mists to supply their abilities, the blindfold is only aesthetic in game, while in the lore of both classes they share the same purpose to assist them in channeling their powers better, they have a similar class icon of an Eye, they are both support oriented and combat oriented.

    The revenant does not perform rituals in the way they are described in game. The revenant isn't a priest and no revenant has become a priest. They don't honor their ancestors. The revenant channels legends of the mists much like the dervish channels the power of the gods. Both revenant and necromancer does commune with the mists. But the you are limiting their scope a bit too much by comparing them.m to ritualist. The ritualist only communes with spirits of the underworld and realm of torment. Which the necromancer currently does. The necromancer does channel sprits. The revenant borrows knowledge from the legends they channel as well as magic. And lose that magic and seems to lose their unique knowledge when they release them. The revenant isn't limited to the dead. We have this suggested in the story but its possible they could channel living legends trapped in the mists or even legends of the future. The revenant also uses their own body as the medium. Something the ritualist does not do nor would they ever do it. The revenant also is a martial profession. And their identity is centered around using the legends to enhance their own performance. Like a dervish does with God magic. Ritualist and necromancer are both capable of this to a lesser extent but they don't maintain the identity of the spirits they absorb. The revenant has effectively perfected a single spell. They have very poor magic abilities aside from that one spell. Canonically the necromancer performs all the rights and rultiuals the ritualist would be doing.

    And to help further drive the point home. https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/White_Mantle_Ritualist

    Sorry but the name of that NPC doesn’t drive home the point since it clearly states that the Npc can be one of 4 professions and the Necromancer is one of them and why it has Necromancer skills listed and not Ritualist skills and it even states that they aren’t the ritual profession from prophecies.

    And dervishes assume an avatar of a god not channel it, while Revenants channel spirits.

    For a profession that supposedly doesn't have anything in common with the necromancer they sure talk about death and harnessing the power of death a lot.... I'm reading some quotes from Ritualist NPCs from GW1.

    They channel spirits which are from the dead, so yeah they would talk about the dead, but they aren’t using death magic..... Necromancers don’t do that, they Reanimate corpses and exploit those while using Death Magic..

    The necromancer absolutely does channel spirits. This is cannon. It happens in the personal story. Hell, Trahearne does it right next to you. And if you actually read Last straw Marjory channels a spirit of a young boy to help her solve his murder. You can't say you've read the links if you've overlooked that major detail.

    The little boy wasn’t being channeled... that’s like saying anyone that interacts with the spirits of Ascalon are channeling them...

    And Traeherne wasn’t channelinng spirits he channels the magic of Orr when he performed the spell that cleansed the waters of Orr...

    For someone that says they know the lore has some gaps and leaps and bounds.

    I wasn't talking about that part. It was earlier in the story. He channels beings from the underworld when the group was surrounded by risen. Also there was a risen lich. Don't remember the story name.

    Also, she did channel his spirit. He wasn't just roaming the streets like that. And its stated that another necromancer banished him. Something that ritualists are capable of doing. You're really trying to split hairs to disprove it, but the facts don't lie. Necromancer channel the dead, they commune with spirits, they call forth energies and beings from the underworld and realm of torment. Clearly we can see the only difference between them is the ritualist is just more limited in the scope of what they can do.

    They don’t channel the dead they Reanimate the dead, and you keep making these claims without the parts to back them up Traeherne never channeled a Lich, the dead kids Spirit was there right after his death not from her channeling his spirit into herself or her magic she didn’t call upon his spirit from the Mists, you are stretching to make something fit that clearly doesn’t.

    Yes they do. Read the skill descriptions. They say summon. The necromancer from gw2 doesn't reanimate corpses anymore. They channel them from the underworld. Cannon. I believe there was an AMA about it before. But again you are just factually wrong.

    Summoning isn’t channeling.... and it doesn’t say that they are summoned from the Mists, and minions aren’t Spirits the only one close would be Shadow Fiend. And remember corpses aren’t exploitable objects due to game Engine and mechanics so no reanimating the minions from the actual dead bodies, same as how wells just erupt from the ground and not exploitable dead bodies.

    Please show me where it says that Necromancers channel Spirits from the Mists to fuel their spells.

    Only one class in Gw2 has that description on their magic.

    Please link the AMA again another claim without the link to them stating that.

    Actually They do. It's in the names of their skills. Spiteful spirit was a pretty popular one in gw1. You have your proof all over the game. You're just ignoring it. Blatantly for no reason other than a rev bias. Also I said I believe. Trying to find a minor comment back in 2012 would be like trying to find a needle in a haystack. Which they did talk about the ritualist being assimilated into other professions. Primarily necromancer and some guarding and a bit for ranger and maybe elementalist.

    Also to channel something is to direct towards something or some place. So yes, summoning is channeling.

    Summoning isn’t channeling morning the slightest, I can summon someone to me that doesn’t mean that I am handling that person. Again stretching.

    Are they channeling that spirit to fuel their spells? No. And Spiteful spirit is a hex not a spirit, and hexes are essentially curses.... again stretching.

    Channeling and communing

    Let’s look at what Revenant has that matches Ritualist.

    • Channel Legends(aka spirits) from the Mists to Power their spells/abilities
    • Communing with the spirits from the Mist(Revenants actually hold conversations with the Legends that they are channeling.)
    • Use Blindfolds to help focus/channel from the Mists
    • Class symbol is extremely similar (its and Eye just like Ritualist’s)
    • Can summon members of Kalla’s Warband with Renegade(essentially spirits from the Mists.)
    • Empower allies with the powers granted by the Legends(aka spirits)

    Let’s look what Necromancer has.

    • ...
    • ...

    Right. They don’t Do any of those things.

    TLDR

    Both Thematically and Mechanically Revenants are the spiritual successor of Ritualists, there is no way around that, they channel long gone figures of the past to grant them spells and abilities, they commune with those Legends of the past, they can summon spirits, they can empower allies with the abilities granted by the Legends, they share the same signature blindfold for the same reasons as the Ritualists, they have a similar class icon as the Ritualist.

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:
    Ritualist falls closer to Revenant, and is thematically closer to Revenant based on ingame descriptions and certain mechanics portrayal of skills, I could see it being given as a ES but doubt it since it’s spiritual successor is already in game.

    At the person who keeps saying that Revenants aren’t close to Ritualists if you go to the links on Ritualist and Revenant respectively, the descriptions of their classes are very similar in where/how they get their powers, how they help focus their powers, and how they function, ie Channeling Spirits/Legends from the mists to supply their abilities, the blindfold is only aesthetic in game, while in the lore of both classes they share the same purpose to assist them in channeling their powers better, they have a similar class icon of an Eye, they are both support oriented and combat oriented.

    The revenant does not perform rituals in the way they are described in game. The revenant isn't a priest and no revenant has become a priest. They don't honor their ancestors. The revenant channels legends of the mists much like the dervish channels the power of the gods. Both revenant and necromancer does commune with the mists. But the you are limiting their scope a bit too much by comparing them.m to ritualist. The ritualist only communes with spirits of the underworld and realm of torment. Which the necromancer currently does. The necromancer does channel sprits. The revenant borrows knowledge from the legends they channel as well as magic. And lose that magic and seems to lose their unique knowledge when they release them. The revenant isn't limited to the dead. We have this suggested in the story but its possible they could channel living legends trapped in the mists or even legends of the future. The revenant also uses their own body as the medium. Something the ritualist does not do nor would they ever do it. The revenant also is a martial profession. And their identity is centered around using the legends to enhance their own performance. Like a dervish does with God magic. Ritualist and necromancer are both capable of this to a lesser extent but they don't maintain the identity of the spirits they absorb. The revenant has effectively perfected a single spell. They have very poor magic abilities aside from that one spell. Canonically the necromancer performs all the rights and rultiuals the ritualist would be doing.

    And to help further drive the point home. https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/White_Mantle_Ritualist

    Sorry but the name of that NPC doesn’t drive home the point since it clearly states that the Npc can be one of 4 professions and the Necromancer is one of them and why it has Necromancer skills listed and not Ritualist skills and it even states that they aren’t the ritual profession from prophecies.

    And dervishes assume an avatar of a god not channel it, while Revenants channel spirits.

    For a profession that supposedly doesn't have anything in common with the necromancer they sure talk about death and harnessing the power of death a lot.... I'm reading some quotes from Ritualist NPCs from GW1.

    They channel spirits which are from the dead, so yeah they would talk about the dead, but they aren’t using death magic..... Necromancers don’t do that, they Reanimate corpses and exploit those while using Death Magic..

    The necromancer absolutely does channel spirits. This is cannon. It happens in the personal story. Hell, Trahearne does it right next to you. And if you actually read Last straw Marjory channels a spirit of a young boy to help her solve his murder. You can't say you've read the links if you've overlooked that major detail.

    The little boy wasn’t being channeled... that’s like saying anyone that interacts with the spirits of Ascalon are channeling them...

    And Traeherne wasn’t channelinng spirits he channels the magic of Orr when he performed the spell that cleansed the waters of Orr...

    For someone that says they know the lore has some gaps and leaps and bounds.

    I wasn't talking about that part. It was earlier in the story. He channels beings from the underworld when the group was surrounded by risen. Also there was a risen lich. Don't remember the story name.

    Also, she did channel his spirit. He wasn't just roaming the streets like that. And its stated that another necromancer banished him. Something that ritualists are capable of doing. You're really trying to split hairs to disprove it, but the facts don't lie. Necromancer channel the dead, they commune with spirits, they call forth energies and beings from the underworld and realm of torment. Clearly we can see the only difference between them is the ritualist is just more limited in the scope of what they can do.

    They don’t channel the dead they Reanimate the dead, and you keep making these claims without the parts to back them up Traeherne never channeled a Lich, the dead kids Spirit was there right after his death not from her channeling his spirit into herself or her magic she didn’t call upon his spirit from the Mists, you are stretching to make something fit that clearly doesn’t.

    Yes they do. Read the skill descriptions. They say summon. The necromancer from gw2 doesn't reanimate corpses anymore. They channel them from the underworld. Cannon. I believe there was an AMA about it before. But again you are just factually wrong.

    Summoning isn’t channeling.... and it doesn’t say that they are summoned from the Mists, and minions aren’t Spirits the only one close would be Shadow Fiend. And remember corpses aren’t exploitable objects due to game Engine and mechanics so no reanimating the minions from the actual dead bodies, same as how wells just erupt from the ground and not exploitable dead bodies.

    Please show me where it says that Necromancers channel Spirits from the Mists to fuel their spells.

    Only one class in Gw2 has that description on their magic.

    Please link the AMA again another claim without the link to them stating that.

    Actually They do. It's in the names of their skills. Spiteful spirit was a pretty popular one in gw1. You have your proof all over the game. You're just ignoring it. Blatantly for no reason other than a rev bias. Also I said I believe. Trying to find a minor comment back in 2012 would be like trying to find a needle in a haystack. Which they did talk about the ritualist being assimilated into other professions. Primarily necromancer and some guarding and a bit for ranger and maybe elementalist.

    Also to channel something is to direct towards something or some place. So yes, summoning is channeling.

    Summoning isn’t channeling morning the slightest, I can summon someone to me that doesn’t mean that I am handling that person. Again stretching.

    Are they channeling that spirit to fuel their spells? No. And Spiteful spirit is a hex not a spirit, and hexes are essentially curses.... again stretching.

    Channeling and communing

    Let’s look at what Revenant has that matches Ritualist.

    • Channel Legends(aka spirits) from the Mists to Power their spells/abilities
    • Communing with the spirits from the Mist(Revenants actually hold conversations with the Legends that they are channeling.)
    • Use Blindfolds to help focus/channel from the Mists
    • Class symbol is extremely similar (its and Eye just like Ritualist’s)
    • Can summon members of Kalla’s Warband with Renegade(essentially spirits from the Mists.)
    • Empower allies with the powers granted by the Legends(aka spirits)

    Let’s look what Necromancer has.

    • ...
    • ...

    Right. They don’t Do any of those things.

    TLDR

    Both Thematically and Mechanically Revenants are the spiritual successor of Ritualists, there is no way around that, they channel long gone figures of the past to grant them spells and abilities, they commune with those Legends of the past, they can summon spirits, they can empower allies with the abilities granted by the Legends, they share the same signature blindfold for the same reasons as the Ritualists, they have a similar class icon as the Ritualist.

    You clearly have never played gw1. I doubt you've played necro or the personal story either otherwise there is no way you'd make these claims. But welcome to the game!

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