[Suggestion] Map design contest

How about a map design contest so that players either as a single player or group of players could enter a map design for one of the unused areas in core Tyria? Players could design it as an overhead view with map layers on secondary images, event paths / descriptions, NPC and node locations based on a size template packet provided by Arena Net for the contest.

what unused areas in core?

also no

@derd.6413 said:what unused areas in core?

also no

Really? You're gonna 'get off my lawn' that?

@Tekoneiric.6817 said:How about a map design contest so that players either as a single player or group of players could enter a map design for one of the unused areas in core Tyria? Players could design it as an overhead view with map layers on secondary images, event paths / descriptions, NPC and node locations based on a size template packet provided by Arena Net for the contest.

Considering they did the weapon design contest that was considered mostly a success, it's a good idea. Would be cool if they included the submission winner in a point of interest name or something as such.

Putting it in an old core area may be hard secondary to personal story items, but maybe it's used in an instance or something.

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@derd.6413 said:what unused areas in core?

also no

less get of my lan and more that's a stupid idea for very basic ideas

@derd.6413 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@derd.6413 said:what unused areas in core?

also no

Maybe.. but when I look at 'dumb ideas' on this forum, I get to 45 in just two pages. This isn't one of them. And if it's so 'stupid', why even ask for the clarification you did?

Anywho. Hope your day is good.

@derd.6413 said:what unused areas in core?

The Maguuma Wastes area north of Brisban Wildlands which already has a portal which would likely be a bandit stronghold. The Tarnished Coast south of Metrica Province. The narrow zone between Timberline Falls and Sparkfly Fen called Steamspur Mountains. That would be good for a tight flying zone with layers. The zone between Sparkfly Fen and Southsun Cove. There are others also.

also no

Why? People used to design some awesome maps for games like Unreal Tournament. As long as map designs followed any guidelines that ANet puts down it should fit into Tyria without any issues. A contest could help them fill in any gaps they don't plan on doing maps on as part of a LW release.

@Tekoneiric.6817 said:

@derd.6413 said:also no

i kinda expected this response:

the issue is that games like unreal tournament is that the maps are alot simpler and mostly have to be build around the player's abilities (don't want to put to large a sightline in a game with a sniper rifle, etc.). they're also alot smaller iirc

gw2 isn't that simple: you need to consider it's location, it's lore, the current story, and the content you're gonna fill it with. vistas, hero points, nodes, hearts, waypoints you just can't design a map without knowing what you're gonna put in it.

ppl would have to design a map (a big one at that) filled with characters, events and story and in order to do that they would have to asemble a small team of artists content designers and writers. that's a massive undertaking for a simple contest.

and because i know somebody will mention it: a weapon can be desined by one person

@derd.6413 said:

also no

I fully expected there to be some negative responses to my suggestion. I've seen some of the creative artwork put out there by the GW2 community. I doubt I would submit a design but there is plenty of talented people out there that I think they are up to the task.

A small zone like the Steamspur Mountains might be a good place for such a contest. It was once covered in ice but thawed. In my mind I can see a large jagged sinkhole running the length of the map with cliffs, griffons, skritt down in the depths and narrow path along the cliff. It wouldn't have to have a meta or big events; it would just have to be an interesting place with dangers and rewards. We could save skritt from becoming griffon food.

The problem I see with this is that at the moment all new maps are tied to the storyline. So either Anet would have to tell us what's going to happen well in advance to allow players to build a map suited to the story or they'd have to adapt their planned story to suit the chosen map.

The first option has a lot of issues. Firstly it would ruin any surprises that release is supposed to have, but it also runs into the problem that if they give us even a brief description like "there will be a large meta event with a boss fight in this release, so there needs to be a large open area near the middle of the map for the boss to appear" everyone will interpret that their own way and then be left with months to imagine how this new event is going to work. When things like that have happened before people tend to lose track of what Anet actually said and what was player speculation or even their own imagination, and then end up disappointed that the thing they were "promised" isn't exactly what they imagined it would be. Also it limits players creativity because their ideas have to fit the release Anet have planned. (I'm sure that happens to Anet's artists too, but at least they can save those ideas for a later time because they'll have plenty of other opportunities to design maps.)

Doing it the other way around has many of the same problems but in reverse - when they announce the winning map it tells us where in the world it will be and a bit about the format of the event and then we get months of people speculating and building it up into their ideal release while Anet are working on it and probably creating something quite different from each persons dream version. But also they'd have to compromise on the content. Either they pick a winning map which isn't actually the best submission but the one which will fit the planned release best, or they have to twist the story to force it to fit the chosen map. Or both.

Alternatively the new map could be a stand-alone release separate from the living story, but then players have much less of an incentive to go there. Maybe that could be addressed by giving it it's own story, achievements, unique items etc. but then Anet have to do almost as much work as they do for a living story release, but to build something which actually distracts players from what they're building instead of adding to it.

Good suggestion - ANet have done contests in the past for weapons, so why not.

I'd like a variation on it myself - design a fractal (including boss mechanics). It would be more self contained and allow some artistic freedom.

And yes - ANet employ professionals, and far better at this than most of the user base, but it's also great way to get community involved.

It might work better if it was a Fractal or a raid - something which can be a small stand-alone release with little/no connection to the main story. But then it wouldn't be an open-world map.

@Tekoneiric.6817 said:

@derd.6413 said:

also no

this tells me you've got no clue what you're talking abut or you're purpusly ignoring what i've just said and

concept art isn't a map

A small zone like the Steamspur Mountains might be a good place for such a contest. It was once covered in ice but thawed. In my mind I can see a large jagged sinkhole running the length of the map with cliffs, griffons, skritt down in the depths and narrow path along the cliff. It wouldn't have to have a meta or big events; it would just have to be an interesting place with dangers and rewards. We could save skritt from becoming griffon food.

oh, you're just trying to find an excuse for anet to waste their already spread thin resources on making inconsequential maps ppl would visit ones for the sake of map completion and forget about because it'd look nicer when looking at a map.

how about hell no.

@Danikat.8537 said:It might work better if it was a Fractal or a raid - something which can be a small stand-alone release with little/no connection to the main story. But then it wouldn't be an open-world map.

I'd rather see it as a open-world map. I doubt they'll ever do anything with the Steamspur Mountains so it probably wouldn't mean much to their overall storyline to put a player designed map there.

@Tekoneiric.6817 said:

@Danikat.8537 said:It might work better if it was a Fractal or a raid - something which can be a small stand-alone release with little/no connection to the main story. But then it wouldn't be an open-world map.

Once a map is designed (and I strongly suspect it takes several artists a considerable amount of months do design even a small map) it has to be populated, so players have more to do in a map than just go there and look at the scenery. NPCs, mobs, events, gathering nodes, rewards, jps, achievements, hidden chests ... I'm sure there's a lot more that goes into map creation than this, it's just what I've come up with off the top of my head.

If you want a player-designed map integrated into the game (which your post sounds like), it can't just exist in a vacuum. Every piece of loot, every bit of karma and experience earned in the map interacts with all other maps in game. If it's too bland, it'll be mostly empty, which makes it not worth the effort. If it's too profitable, it'll clear the rest of the game off a sizeable number of players and have same or worse effects than Istan and such had.

Personally I'd rather ANet keeps producing the awesome, intricate maps with lots of things to do they have been producing so far, centered around choices they deem fitting. Once they run out of ideas it might be time to spend resources on polishing outside creations to integrate into the game, but as long as their creativity keeps running as high as it has so far, I see no reason to drag a large portion of the creativity and resources to integrate as major a piece of outside content into the game as a new open-world map is.

I could probably make a very basic design for a map. Depending how in depth the design would need to be.

Ofcourse such a contest probably would have a disclaimer that the exact design would only be used for inspiration and they might change stuff according to ideas sprouting from this initial design.

I definitely think such a contest would need to be limited somehow. No single player will ever make a full fledged map. Just like with the weapon contest, the design wouldnt be followed to the pixel.

Lofcourse after the devs are done with the winners original design it might be unrecognizable.

@FrizzFreston.5290 said:I could probably make a very basic design for a map. Depending how in depth the design would need to be.

Ofcourse such a contest probably would have a disclaimer that the exact design would only be used for inspiration and they might change stuff according to ideas sprouting from this initial design.

I definitely think such a contest would need to be limited somehow. No single player will ever make a full fledged map. Just like with the weapon contest, the design wouldnt be followed to the pixel.

Lofcourse after the devs are done with the winners original design it might be unrecognizable.

And I guess that was my thought as well. A general layout for a map that can be integrated into design ideas by the team.

Not one that would be plunked down as is.

Give the winning designer a POI reference or something as the 'reward' along with maybe some gems etc..

I doubt there are enough people with actual game map design qualifications that could pull this off. A game map isn't only about how it looks when you press M on your keyboard.

@maddoctor.2738 said:I doubt there are enough people with actual game map design qualifications that could pull this off. A game map isn't only about how it looks when you press M on your keyboard.

You don't need much more than a rich imagination really.

@FrizzFreston.5290 said:

@"maddoctor.2738" said:I doubt there are enough people with actual game map design qualifications that could pull this off. A game map isn't only about how it looks when you press M on your keyboard.

For a weapon, armor or mount skin yes that's true. But for a zone that players will play on? That's completely different. Graphics is "easy" to design, it mostly takes imagination, but gameplay is fundamentally different. The only thing you could reliably ask the community to design is the splash/loading screen

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@FrizzFreston.5290 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:I doubt there are enough people with actual game map design qualifications that could pull this off. A game map isn't only about how it looks when you press M on your keyboard.

Clearly such a contest wouldnt be top to bottom map design. But a concept just takes brainstorming and imagination. Arenanet would need to develop the map from there.

There has been community input for mapdesign in the beginning and, while of course it was never put in word for word detail for detail, it is technically possible.

But like I said, the format would need to be limitted by some rules. Like describe your ideal map in x words. or use one picture and a few words. Or that template (weapon contest did that too btw).

Ofcourse, designing a full map into the tiniest detail and reward structure is never going to be done in a contest.

@FrizzFreston.5290 said:

Clearly such a contest wouldnt be top to bottom map design. But a concept just takes brainstorming and imagination. Arenanet would need to develop the map from there.

There has been community input for mapdesign in the beginning and, while of course it was never put in word for word detail for detail, it is technically possible.

But like I said, the format would need to be limitted by some rules. Like describe your ideal map in x words. or use one picture and a few words. Or that template (weapon contest did that too btw).

Ofcourse, designing a full map into the tiniest detail and reward structure is never going to be done in a contest.

Yea it would be more of just a basic design idea for a map. To do full map design players would need access to the designer tools that devs use which is not going to happen because the game isn't geared up for player access to developer tools like in the Unreal engine. My suggestion was just designing the overall layout of the map as images showing top view, any layers needed, event abstracts and such. Basically what people see on map or mini-maps. Maps probably start out as something like that to get the basic concept down before doing the actual map. The devs would have to implement it as a functional design.