The wisest comment on ele subforum

@Jski.6180 said:

@"Dahir.4158" said:Give up. The class has been abandoned.

Mm, didn't they rework mesmer back in like February or March some time around there even though it has always been top teirs?At this point i feel that they just dont care about the ele and its either to difficult to change so they never will or they just dont care to. This games code is super spaghettied i feel any change that can happen will just end up defunking something else so in the end nothing will ever get done.

Also if you want more evidence of a bias twords ele just look in the pvp forums. You are not allowed to post anything related to ele or it gets moved to the ele forum, buut there has been a condi mirage post in the pvp section for weeks. If this isnt the deffinition of bias then idk what that word means.

@Eddbopkins.2630 said:Also if you want more evidence of a bias twords ele just look in the pvp forums. You are not allowed to post anything related to ele or it gets moved to the ele forum, buut there has been a condi mirage post in the pvp section for weeks. If this isnt the deffinition of bias then idk what that word means.

Hey, Mesmer is anets pet class, its allowed to get away with things most of the time :D

@plushiesoda.8150 said:

@Dante.1763 said:Hey, Mesmer is anets pet class, its allowed to get away with things most of the time :D

See, but thats the thing., Ele was MEANT to be a high risk high reward class that was hard to play, that needed 100% perfect complicated rotations to pull those numbers. NOW its a high risk, no reward, but still hard to play class, while needing nearly 100% perfect rotations to maybe pull ahead of other classes in DPS, while still giving up nearly all defenses, other classes can do everything that ele was meant to do, more often than not better at the average or even above average level.

also; i dont pvp with ele, im only referring to PVE, and WvW when i respond. Ele in this game as a class, has gotten so many nerfs to their damage(the thing anet literally describes the class as being capable of doing massive amounts of) that it makes me wonder if anet even knows what they want their classes to be.

@Dante.1763 said:

@plushiesoda.8150 said:

@Dante.1763 said:Hey, Mesmer is anets pet class, its allowed to get away with things most of the time :D

Just wondering but do you think when ele was actually high risk high reward that it got screwed by being a meta build and so everyone was rolling ele, but in actuality no one was hitting the high dps marks and the most people would have been had better dps results with other classes, or was it too easy for ele to out dps other classes? Basically wondering if Anet nerfed ele just because of snowcrows or whoevers benchmark and a high concentration of the class, as opposed to the actual results that were happening.

Ele for pvp in my opinion will always be stuck in a mender/bruiser role so long as traits have no trade offs and that you constantly take a build which consists of the 4 elements, which ultimately brings too much utility to the build for it to have high enough dps.

@plushiesoda.8150 said:

@"Dante.1763" said:Hey, Mesmer is anets pet class, its allowed to get away with things most of the time :D

Actually mirages are way stronger to many bosses like Mathias, Soulless horror, due to confusion, better CC (without disrupting the rotation), sustain/dodges. Same as Renegade with boonstrip, a little sustain to the groupe with the kalla's skill and the +150 ferocity.Elem/weaver is the generic DPS, it's quite good in optimised compo (and sterling companions) in fractals due to burst (but, do you often see 30k+ weaver in fractals pug or average guilds ? I saw better holos, better tempests (ironic) even better DH; this is not weaver's fault, it's just weaver staff is very clumsy and tributary to support/healing) and against "pole" bosses like if you want to speedrun gorseval; but if you look closer the mechanics, like the phases, the kites, the moves, the rate attacks, and, additional, if you want safety about buffs, sustain, CC etc; Elem is no longer optimal *for DPS.

@plushiesoda.8150 said:

@Dante.1763 said:Hey, Mesmer is anets pet class, its allowed to get away with things most of the time :D

can elementalist shit out every single boons with high uptime, solo instant cc most mobs in both raids and fractals, provide means for the group to ignore mechanics, remove boons, and tank, all the while having both a condi dps build that's optimal in several raid bosses and a power dps build that's competitive at the same time?

as for pvp side of things, the recent chronocancer clown fiesta pretty much matches what dd cele ele was at its best with condi/chaos mirages (both before & after mesmer rework) being s tier so far for all pof (and chrono was meta in pretty much all of hot too with its own bunker cancer times).

Folks, with all due respect to both you, and to the arena net as a whole (because using any negative meaning will have impact):If there is lack of communication between players and development, there will never be a proper comparison gravity point. And in the current state of the game, this communication is clouded to put it politely. Do not burn yourselves out with specifics on who can do what, but how much attention is given to who can do what. That's a much wiser question, in the opinion of multiple people in the community.

@Dante.1763 said:See, but thats the thing., Ele was MEANT to be a high risk high reward class that was hard to play, that needed 100% perfect complicated rotations to pull those numbers. NOW its a high risk, no reward, but still hard to play class, while needing nearly 100% perfect rotations to maybe pull ahead of other classes in DPS, while still giving up nearly all defenses, other classes can do everything that ele was meant to do, more often than not better at the average or even above average level.

also; i dont pvp with ele, im only referring to PVE, and WvW when i respond. Ele in this game as a class, has gotten so many nerfs to their damage(the thing anet literally describes the class as being capable of doing massive amounts of) that it makes me wonder if anet even knows what they want their classes to be.

When was elementalist high risk exactly? Elementalist in the vanilla game was a very safe profession to pick with high reward (be it in PvP, WvW or even PvE). With HoT and the specialization system, elementalist became a bit more risky to play but nobody felt it because everybody rushed to the support bot build until the support was nerfed and other profession overcame the tempest support with PoF. I'd even say that tempest in it's dps builds used to be really safe to play and is still safe to play.

In itself the elementalist isn't a risky profession to play. It's when one build and play for high reward in regard of dps that the profession become risky to play. It's understandable that players want to play the most effective dps build available in regard of dps but those players should also uderstand that they have to make sacrifice for it. If anything elementalist have the most freedom in regard of their access to their weapon skills with very short skillset swap CD. This in itself grant the elementalist flexibility in both defense and offense. So what prevent this flexibility to shine? Players! It's not due to the profession being risky, it's just due to players being greedy for damages and refusing to stray from the fabled optimal rotation.

The elementalist have the possibility to build for lower damage ceiling but way higher survivability. Something that other professions are generaly forced to do. An elementalist that refuse to use water or earth because it's not in it's optimal rotation is like, previously, a necromancer that would refuse to use shroud because the shroud deal less damage and they would lose their already pitiful amount of damage. That said, water and earth skill can actually put quite a good amount of damage when properly traited.

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Dante.1763 said:See, but thats the thing., Ele was

MEANT

to be a high risk high reward class that was hard to play, that needed 100% perfect complicated rotations to pull those numbers.

NOW

its a high risk, no reward, but still hard to play class, while needing nearly 100% perfect rotations to

maybe

pull ahead of other classes in DPS, while still giving up nearly all defenses, other classes can do everything that ele was meant to do, more often than not better at the average or even above average level.

also; i dont pvp with ele, im only referring to PVE, and WvW when i respond. Ele in this game as a class, has gotten so many nerfs to their damage(the thing anet literally describes the class as being capable of doing massive amounts of) that it makes me wonder if anet even knows what they want their classes to be.

What kind of post is this?....It's a random collection of whatever...but one thing sure is sure you have no idea how ele works in game and in relation to other professions , neither you have a full knowledge of the past balance setting. There are just dozen ways to dismantle your post but....too much effort and can't really bother

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@"Dante.1763" said:See, but thats the thing., Ele was

MEANT

to be a high risk high reward class that was hard to play, that needed 100% perfect complicated rotations to pull those numbers.

NOW

its a high risk, no reward, but still hard to play class, while needing nearly 100% perfect rotations to

maybe

pull ahead of other classes in DPS, while still giving up nearly all defenses, other classes can do everything that ele was meant to do, more often than not better at the average or even above average level.

also; i dont pvp with ele, im only referring to PVE, and WvW when i respond. Ele in this game as a class, has gotten so many nerfs to their damage(the thing anet literally describes the class as being capable of doing massive amounts of) that it makes me wonder if anet even knows what they want their classes to be.

Other gen. professions? you mean eng? because that can have a crazy high dmg cap and be super def at the same time as well as being a far better support. There are no other classes like ele because anet buffed the other classes because to be like ele is to be not used and if anet keeps with the pop. % you see these classes fall off into non use. Something we must do for the ele class.

I dont want to say your fooling your self into every thing is ok for ele but its as if your not playing gw2 or you found a bubble to live in where ele is ok and other are ok that your running as one. Try to get out of that bubble and see how the "real" world of gw2 and how badly ele as a class is looked down on in every game type in gw2 even solo play you will start to look down on ele lol.

@"Jski.6180" said:I dont want to say your fooling your self into every thing is ok for ele but its as if your not playing gw2 or you found a bubble to live in where ele is ok and other are ok that your running as one. Try to get out of that bubble and see how the "real" world of gw2 and how badly ele as a class is looked down on in every game type in gw2 even solo play you will start to look down on ele lol.

I'll put it simply, I play all professions and I don't need to "fool" myself. The elementalist despiste how negatively you like to see it have a lot of strong point. The issue is not me being stuck into a bubble, the problem is players painting the elementalist in a dark light over and over. People that does this obviously don't like the profession or simply don't want to truly learn to play this profession, pick either of those.

Let's put it simply, in the vanilla game, whatever the gamemode, the elementalist was the top profession of the game. PvE end game was a breeze and more than often the best group were taking 4 ele and 1 thief, the thief only being there to give elementalists stealth. Never in such group did I ever felt any risk by playing elementalist. In WvW this same elementalist could 1vX without the sligthest bit of an issue and in PvP, it was just the same.

With HoT, Tempest arrived and it didn't make the elementalist weaker in any way. There is no point in fooling oneself and painting tempest into a trash e-spec, I'll say it, I've never felt at risk when using tempest. If anything, tempest is very solid. Tempest granted a lot to the elementalist and properly played it is, even now, an amazing spec. In PvE, tempest rocked top dps in raids for almost the whole HoT era. In PvP, Tempest ended up listed as a boon bot and that where the elementalist's players disgust came to bleed onto the forum. The "meta build" ended up being a boon bot and most only follow what metabattle say. Did it mean that tempest was bad at dealing damage? Nope.

With PoF, came weaver. Ah weaver, the eldorado and at the same time the drought. The eldorado for the players that wanna hit hard, with his damage increased trait. And the drought because players just don't want to go for a balanced build and try to do things that are beyond themself. It's not like weaver don't come along with shitload of defense, be it on weapon skills, utility or traits. But still players dare to find it risky. Is weaver still one of the top dps in PvE? Yes. Is it possible to have a lot of survivability in PvP and WvW? Yes, you can even become almost unkillable.

Along all those years the elementalist community always whinned about not being able to deal damage in PvP. When the dev come up with new skills that can potentially help the elementalist to do so, most of the time the elementalist community just reject such skill by saying "there is better options". The problem of the elementalist in PvP is that he struggle to create for himself windows of opportunity to land it burst. Not a problem of damage, just a problem of opportunity. Yet believe it or not the elementalist and especially the weaver have tools to create for himself those opportunities even if it's not "the best option that I wanna take". The "real" GW2 is far wider than the limited GW2 described by players that visibly dislike the elementalist and paint it in dark shade. The "real" GW2 is not limited by the whim to play full dps and disregard option that are seen as non optimal. The elementalist isn't the best at everything anymore but it's far from being "that bad", ultimately the player tend to drag down the profession by being greedy instead of balanced in it's choices, not the opposite.

@"Dadnir.5038" said:(...)Along all those years the elementalist community always whinned about not being able to deal damage in PvP. When the dev come up with new skills that can potentially help the elementalist to do so, most of the time the elementalist community just reject such skill by saying "there is better options". The problem of the elementalist in PvP is that he struggle to create for himself windows of opportunity to land it burst. Not a problem of damage, just a problem of opportunity. Yet believe it or not the elementalist and especially the weaver have tools to create for himself those opportunities even if it's not "the best option that I wanna take". The "real" GW2 is far wider than the limited GW2 described by players that visibly dislike the elementalist and paint it in dark shade. The "real" GW2 is not limited by the whim to play full dps and disregard option that are seen as non optimal. The elementalist isn't the best at everything anymore but it's far from being "that bad", ultimately the player tend to drag down the profession by being greedy instead of balanced in it's choices, not the opposite.

Only talking about PVP.

Ele (basically only weaver now) is in a bad spot. By far the worst of all classes. Even rev has had Herald buffed to meta and nerfed to... well, viability again. The rest are ele-like meme builds indeed. The problem is, it was like this for a year now and there have been zero noticeable attempts to change this. Not a single one. In fact, the survivability was nerfed several times. S/D is definitely not unkillable, especially not in the current meta with all the high power burst, and lacks other tools like damage and mobility, team support or strong AoE pressure at all.

You are right about the ability to land damage though. That is what I proposed months (feels like years) ago. Increase the range of skills, not the damage. What did they do? Increased damage on pure PVE skills like Pyro Vortex. Well, that is why I - and a lot of other PVP eles - feel like there is a serious misunderstanding in what ele currently needs to become viable.

That is what the ele community is mad about. While a lot of other classes got buffs, reworks, and yes, some nerfs and lots of different builds becoming viable or not, nothing at all has changed for elementalist. Not on weaver, not on tempest and surely not to core. They even got rid of FA meme builds, while other builds roam freely with not only more damage but also more disengage potential. I am now trolling with a zerker chrono, and boi, that's some serious AoE damage and huge CC and... pheeew!

Again, only talking about PVP. In PVE ele might be alright, don't really play it, and in WvW zergs it seems to be at least viable, but I don't know much about that either. But there seems to be noone working on ele for PVP. Yes, I am mad about that.

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@"Jski.6180" said:I dont want to say your fooling your self into every thing is ok for ele but its as if your not playing gw2 or you found a bubble to live in where ele is ok and other are ok that your running as one. Try to get out of that bubble and see how the "real" world of gw2 and how badly ele as a class is looked down on in every game type in gw2 even solo play you will start to look down on ele lol.

Eles are making major points that there classes are not used and not wanted its not whining if your class has been countless nerf only to have the nerf revised over and over showing Anet has no ideal what to do with the class but are comply unwilling to come out and say it. This was all when there was an ele dev we lost that dev now there is NO one working solo on ele. Its comply with in reason for ppl who want to play ele to be able to play in all games types how they wish.

There is no balanced in gw2 there never will be and the only real world way to get a fix is to stop playing the class and forces the hand of anet who are seeing pop. % not player sanctification.

I will say this once, in the simplest way possible, with as few words as needed.For the "standards" painted by the developers, from the release of the game, up to now, the elementalist does not fit (anymore) the role described. You can give his skills a 200% damage increase and make him top in everything, the previous statement will not change.When one tries to objectively judge something, they need to see its purpose. In any game, the purpose of a class is to provide X tools, in a Y feel, to solve the various encounters. The X tools of the elementalist have not kept up with the game in a matter of synergy, thus giving an under performing (to put it politely) Y feel of its intention.As far as seeing how the class goes, to play the devil's advocate, lets say we do not understand/comprehend/know how the class works. An announcement / a gameplay video / some streaming of the class, used by the developers to reflect their choices would shed some much needed light, however that has not happened either, with the exception of 2 occasions, showcasing the elites for HoT and PoF respectively. [if i am mistaken about this, by all means DO post a link of the class being used by those who tweak it.]It can be argued, that in an effort to not lock people in a playstyle, leaving it as a free / vague interpretation has pushed the particular kit to the other side of the coin. Until a gravity point of the class is set, and a demonstration of it takes place, you will not be seeing any progress in any way shape or form. And if something as fundamental as a core class (that existed from the previous game) is facing such issues, the rest of it is going down as well, and some fancy shiny pet skins or a 20% damage increase in Lava Font will not fix the holes in this sinking ship.

@"Derkon.7408" said:I will say this once, in the simplest way possible, with as few words as needed.For the "standards" painted by the developers, from the release of the game, up to now, the elementalist does not fit (anymore) the role described. You can give his skills a 200% damage increase and make him top in everything, the previous statement will not change.When one tries to objectively judge something, they need to see its purpose. In any game, the purpose of a class is to provide X tools, in a Y feel, to solve the various encounters. The X tools of the elementalist have not kept up with the game in a matter of synergy, thus giving an under performing (to put it politely) Y feel of its intention.As far as seeing how the class goes, to play the devil's advocate, lets say we do not understand/comprehend/know how the class works. An announcement / a gameplay video / some streaming of the class, used by the developers to reflect their choices would shed some much needed light, however that has not happened either, with the exception of 2 occasions, showcasing the elites for HoT and PoF respectively. [if i am mistaken about this, by all means DO post a link of the class being used by those who tweak it.]It can be argued, that in an effort to not lock people in a playstyle, leaving it as a free / vague interpretation has pushed the particular kit to the other side of the coin. Until a gravity point of the class is set, and a demonstration of it takes place, you will not be seeing any progress in any way shape or form. And if something as fundamental as a core class (that existed from the previous game) is facing such issues, the rest of it is going down as well, and some fancy shiny pet skins or a 20% damage increase in Lava Font will not fix the holes in this sinking ship.

This is pretty accurate.Ele does need buffs, but plain damage buffs are the last thing this class needs.One of the problems with ele that is not noticed as much is how combos have not kept up with the power creep. Elementalist was and still is the best profession at providing its own combo fields and complimenting them with finishers, and it seems like Anet has been trying to expand this by buffing several abilities with new finishers. However, combos are nearly worthless in the current state of the game. There are only like 3 combo types that are not completely negligible, and even those get easily outclassed. Even fire fields with blast finishers are not that amazing anymore, since so much free might can be generated by other classes with much less effort. What are 3 stacks going to do these days? You need to combine several skills for inferior results.

If the combo system gets a rework, then maybe that could make elementalist good, but even that is not guaranteed since it buffs every class to a certain extent.

@Ganathar.4956 said:

@"Derkon.7408" said:I will say this once, in the simplest way possible, with as few words as needed.For the "standards" painted by the developers, from the release of the game, up to now, the elementalist does not fit (anymore) the role described. You can give his skills a 200% damage increase and make him top in everything, the previous statement will not change.When one tries to objectively judge something, they need to see its purpose. In any game, the purpose of a class is to provide X tools, in a Y feel, to solve the various encounters. The X tools of the elementalist have not kept up with the game in a matter of synergy, thus giving an under performing (to put it politely) Y feel of its intention.As far as seeing how the class goes, to play the devil's advocate, lets say we do not understand/comprehend/know how the class works. An announcement / a gameplay video / some streaming of the class, used by the developers to reflect their choices would shed some much needed light, however that has not happened either, with the exception of 2 occasions, showcasing the elites for HoT and PoF respectively. [if i am mistaken about this, by all means DO post a link of the class being used by those who tweak it.]It can be argued, that in an effort to not lock people in a playstyle, leaving it as a free / vague interpretation has pushed the particular kit to the other side of the coin. Until a gravity point of the class is set, and a demonstration of it takes place, you will not be seeing any progress in any way shape or form. And if something as fundamental as a core class (that existed from the previous game) is facing such issues, the rest of it is going down as well, and some fancy shiny pet skins or a 20% damage increase in Lava Font will not fix the holes in this sinking ship.

Totally agree. I also mentioned that in the "suggestions for ele changes"-thread. While I do think water fields are still good - I would like to see them scale more with healing power to nerf holo sustain with offensive amulets though - fire fields are completely obsolete today. 3 stacks of might by blasting? That has not kept up with the power creep and hardly anyone uses it anymore. Remember when you stacked might at game start? Why doesn't anyone still do that? Right, because it is absolutely not relevant anymore and fire fields hardly contribute to anything. Increase the effect and ele might even get some team fight viability (lol).

Again, mainly talking about PVP here.