Class Ratings — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Class Ratings

ParanoidKami.2867ParanoidKami.2867 Member ✭✭✭

Each class on an account should have a separate ranked rating. Bullet points:

  • Make people feel they can play different classes in ranked without affecting their rating
  • Would enable the ability to try things out more. Example: One serious class and others to try out fun builds
  • Stop people from queuing one class and then switching to another when a game is found. Can't purposefully make double Necro or Mesmer(or whatever flavour of the month there is)
  • Can have class leaderboards so we can see who is the best per class. Best players can aim to be top in multiple classes
  • People will have to learn more about their class and switch builds rather than classes

Anyways, discuss.

Comments

  • BlaqueFyre.5678BlaqueFyre.5678 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ParanoidKami.2867 said:
    Each class on an account should have a separate ranked rating. Bullet points:

    • Make people feel they can play different classes in ranked without affecting their rating
    • Would enable the ability to try things out more. Example: One serious class and others to try out fun builds
    • Stop people from queuing one class and then switching to another when a game is found. Can't purposefully make double Necro or Mesmer(or whatever flavour of the month there is)
    • Can have class leaderboards so we can see who is the best per class. Best players can aim to be top in multiple classes
    • People will have to learn more about their class and switch builds rather than classes

    Anyways, discuss.

    Has been discussed and requested for years, we used to have it the Devs said they won’t go back to it.

  • @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @ParanoidKami.2867 said:
    Each class on an account should have a separate ranked rating. Bullet points:

    • Make people feel they can play different classes in ranked without affecting their rating
    • Would enable the ability to try things out more. Example: One serious class and others to try out fun builds
    • Stop people from queuing one class and then switching to another when a game is found. Can't purposefully make double Necro or Mesmer(or whatever flavour of the month there is)
    • Can have class leaderboards so we can see who is the best per class. Best players can aim to be top in multiple classes
    • People will have to learn more about their class and switch builds rather than classes

    Anyways, discuss.

    Has been discussed and requested for years, we used to have it the Devs said they won’t go back to it.

    Do you have a link? Couldn't find that topic.

  • BlaqueFyre.5678BlaqueFyre.5678 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ParanoidKami.2867 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @ParanoidKami.2867 said:
    Each class on an account should have a separate ranked rating. Bullet points:

    • Make people feel they can play different classes in ranked without affecting their rating
    • Would enable the ability to try things out more. Example: One serious class and others to try out fun builds
    • Stop people from queuing one class and then switching to another when a game is found. Can't purposefully make double Necro or Mesmer(or whatever flavour of the month there is)
    • Can have class leaderboards so we can see who is the best per class. Best players can aim to be top in multiple classes
    • People will have to learn more about their class and switch builds rather than classes

    Anyways, discuss.

    Has been discussed and requested for years, we used to have it the Devs said they won’t go back to it.

    Do you have a link? Couldn't find that topic.

    Iirc a lot of those discussions were on the old forums, only a few on these ones near the beginning. You can find the archived forums. Like we didn’t have the class Leaderboards back then but yeah they said they won’t go back to locking classes or class rating.

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @ParanoidKami.2867 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @ParanoidKami.2867 said:
    Each class on an account should have a separate ranked rating. Bullet points:

    • Make people feel they can play different classes in ranked without affecting their rating
    • Would enable the ability to try things out more. Example: One serious class and others to try out fun builds
    • Stop people from queuing one class and then switching to another when a game is found. Can't purposefully make double Necro or Mesmer(or whatever flavour of the month there is)
    • Can have class leaderboards so we can see who is the best per class. Best players can aim to be top in multiple classes
    • People will have to learn more about their class and switch builds rather than classes

    Anyways, discuss.

    Has been discussed and requested for years, we used to have it the Devs said they won’t go back to it.

    Do you have a link? Couldn't find that topic.

    Iirc a lot of those discussions were on the old forums, only a few on these ones near the beginning. You can find the archived forums. Like we didn’t have the class Leaderboards back then but yeah they said they won’t go back to locking classes or class rating.

    They asked to trial it after they trialed duo and solo queue but some like myself couldnt take it seriously after they forgot to repoll everyone on the duo queue trial, trust issues.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    PvP forum members must be making a new football oval judging by the way they move the goalposts of every post.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I would settle for at least having individual class MMR in just unranked, for the sake of practice. I really don't think too many people are going to find incentive to abuse or exploit this function in unranked. This should have happened a long time ago.

    The 10 Commandments Of Conquest
    Abide by the commandments or God shalt deliver unto thee a packet of salt as often as thou did break them
    -> https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/38081/the-10-commandments-of-conquest#1

  • Fortus.6175Fortus.6175 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 10, 2019

    That sounds interesting. I would like to see how it plays out for certain speccs as well, but rating based on class regardless of build sounds like it would promote interesting builds, strategies and allow us to judge people's skills closer to an actual truth.

    MMR tied to account works for games like overwatch or league of legend where its part of the game to pick different champions/heroes. In GW2 you cant switch characters mid game, and some people have such long loading screens (specially if u parked your character in LA or other populated areas) that you cant consider switching classes "strategic" unless you get a stack of idk, 3 renegades or 3 eles.

    I would also like to see all these "skilled" players do well with classes outside of soulbeast or mirage.

    Lastly, Im more of a ele/guardian player myself, I got their skills down with muscle memory, the CD on skills are intrinsic, but Im not as comfortable with other classes, so I dont use them in ranked due to not wanting to drag my team down. I would feel a lot less guilty if when Im playing renegade (which im enjoying quite a bit lately) I wasnt potentially not giving my best due to not having my reactions, CD-counting and skill finger mapping down to automatic.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 10, 2019

    I think the rating should be class based instead of account based. I am around P2 on my guardian, but when I play rev and warrior, I am barely G3. Even lower when I play Mesmer and probably would not make it to gold on anything else.

    It makes much more sense to separate ranking by class in both ranked and I in ranked.

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'd like that too, but Anet has reasons that reason ignores. Not profitable, maybe?

  • phokus.8934phokus.8934 Member ✭✭✭

    @MyPuppy.8970 said:
    I'd like that too, but Anet has reasons that reason ignores. Not profitable, maybe?

    It's not ANet per se but this community. They put a vote on the forums and no one wanted separate class MMR and kept it to account based MMR.

  • Mbelch.9028Mbelch.9028 Member ✭✭✭

    @phokus.8934 said:

    @MyPuppy.8970 said:
    I'd like that too, but Anet has reasons that reason ignores. Not profitable, maybe?

    It's not ANet per se but this community. They put a vote on the forums and no one wanted separate class MMR and kept it to account based MMR.

    Link to this?

  • BlaqueFyre.5678BlaqueFyre.5678 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @phokus.8934 said:

    @MyPuppy.8970 said:
    I'd like that too, but Anet has reasons that reason ignores. Not profitable, maybe?

    It's not ANet per se but this community. They put a vote on the forums and no one wanted separate class MMR and kept it to account based MMR.

    They worded that so badly that so many people didn’t understand the wording or what the choices actually meant.

  • Megametzler.5729Megametzler.5729 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 10, 2019

    @Mbelch.9028 said:

    @phokus.8934 said:

    @MyPuppy.8970 said:
    I'd like that too, but Anet has reasons that reason ignores. Not profitable, maybe?

    It's not ANet per se but this community. They put a vote on the forums and no one wanted separate class MMR and kept it to account based MMR.

    Link to this?

    I guess what he means is: There was a vote two years or so ago. "Class based MMR without class changing during match start" or "account based MMR with current switching possibilities". Most people preferred the second.

    It was a time when I played mainly power mes and thief was a hard counter, so I voted against this. Needing to adjust your team comp is still important, even though a lot of meta classes can fulfill lots of roles. For off-meta builds it's often essential (e.g. mirage preventing any builds without lots of condi mitigation).

    I might be wrong though, then I don't know what he means. :lol:

  • Dahkeus.8243Dahkeus.8243 Member ✭✭✭

    If I remember right, this got abused quite a bit since people would queue for games on a class they never played and then switch to their main before the game started in order to face off against people they could wipe easily.

  • Spartacus.3192Spartacus.3192 Member ✭✭✭

    @ParanoidKami.2867 said:
    Each class on an account should have a separate ranked rating. Bullet points:

    • Make people feel they can play different classes in ranked without affecting their rating
    • Would enable the ability to try things out more. Example: One serious class and others to try out fun builds
    • Stop people from queuing one class and then switching to another when a game is found. Can't purposefully make double Necro or Mesmer(or whatever flavour of the month there is)
    • Can have class leaderboards so we can see who is the best per class. Best players can aim to be top in multiple classes
    • People will have to learn more about their class and switch builds rather than classes

    Anyways, discuss.

    been discussed to death. ANET made a poll. Pvp PLAYERS voted it down.

    End of story.

  • Spartacus.3192Spartacus.3192 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dahkeus.8243 said:
    If I remember right, this got abused quite a bit since people would queue for games on a class they never played and then switch to their main before the game started in order to face off against people they could wipe easily.

    ANET said they would only implement class based MMR rating if class switching was disabled once a person accepted a match. players voted it down. So ANET didnt implement it.

    Nothing more to discuss unless you can persuade ANET to make another poll asking the same question again.

    Its very simple if you want class based mmr you need to prevented from switching classes once you have accepted the match pop window.

  • Dahkeus.8243Dahkeus.8243 Member ✭✭✭

    @Spartacus.3192 said:

    @Dahkeus.8243 said:
    If I remember right, this got abused quite a bit since people would queue for games on a class they never played and then switch to their main before the game started in order to face off against people they could wipe easily.

    ANET said they would only implement class based MMR rating if class switching was disabled once a person accepted a match. players voted it down. So ANET didnt implement it.

    Nothing more to discuss unless you can persuade ANET to make another poll asking the same question again.

    Its very simple if you want class based mmr you need to prevented from switching classes once you have accepted the match pop window.

    Oh gawd, I can only imagine the uproar that would happen over double-thief games and such if the community ever convinced ANet to do this. Admittedly, these team comps seem to be a lot more rare than they used to be, but there would be massive QQ over people not being able to character swap, particularly since some people just swap characters to another of the same class in order to change their build.

  • Spartacus.3192Spartacus.3192 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 10, 2019

    @Dahkeus.8243 said:
    there would be massive QQ over people not being able to character swap, particularly since some people just swap characters to another of the same class in order to change their build.

    Hence why the poll showed more than 50% of the voters preferred to keep the freedom of character switching rather than have class based MMR.

    Democracy in action.

    Now i do feel we should have the poll again as players come and go and the results could be different on a new poll.

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 10, 2019

    Why wasn't the poll proposed/publicised/discussed in game? Forumers represent only a small fraction of the playerbase... It feels like asking yes/no for a mirage/boonbeast/holo nerf on ele subforum.

  • ParanoidKami.2867ParanoidKami.2867 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 11, 2019

    2-3 years ago was HoT. In HoT the elite specializations were ridiculously overpowered. You couldn't change builds because other builds were terrible compared to the op elite specs. It's different now and more builds are viable.

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 11, 2019

    @phokus.8934 said:

    @MyPuppy.8970 said:
    I'd like that too, but Anet has reasons that reason ignores. Not profitable, maybe?

    It's not ANet per se but this community. They put a vote on the forums and no one wanted separate class MMR and kept it to account based MMR.

    We wanted it but we wanted the trial of solo queue to finish up first...
    Wasnt until later we found out that there was no intention to repoll about solo queue when they stated to Crab they had no intention to bring back team queue.

    I believe one of the other reasons people were against it was because of match making... people didnt want to be in a team with no guardian or necro while the other team has 2 of each.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    PvP forum members must be making a new football oval judging by the way they move the goalposts of every post.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    You know I was thinking, and I'll bet the one big reason why individual class ratings will never happen in any game mode, is because of the question of "How would it even work with class swapping before matches start?" There are problems here.

    Example: Guy plays Plat 2 as a Necro but only Gold 2 as a Thief. Guy ques match as his Thief, planning on swapping to Reaper when the match starts.

    Problems to point out here:

    • He is making the match easier, which is a direct form of match manipulation. This would enable anyone to perform exploits such as purposely tanking 1 character down to bronze 1 and using it to que matches with full intention to swap to an actual main after entering the match.
    • How would this even work with how the system would read the win and what class leaderboard would it counts it towards? Is he upping his Thief leaderboard stats by winning that match with a Reaper? Is he upping his Reaper leaderboard status by winning an easy match that was designed for the Thief? If you sit back and give this some thought, this is a mess that cannot be sorted out.
    • After considering the above 2nd asterisk, the only answer would be to remove class swapping after entering a match, to ensure that the player must play as the class that the algorithm designed his class for. This comes with its own whole unopened can of worms that I'm not even going to go into discussion on here. Enabling or disabling class swapping is a different debacle entirely, but an unfortunately important one concerning the topic of this thread.

    If everyone was sincere enough to not exploit such a system, and to actually play the match on the character that they qued with, it would work perfectly with no problems, and we wouldn't need class swapping to be removed. But since that would never happen and people would indeed frequently match manipulate, class swapping would need to be removed completely. I personally would be willing to run a beta season with no class swapping that had individual class leaderboards and MMRs. I think it sounds fun, but not so sure many others would agree.

    Then I started thinking "Is there a way to keep account wide MMR but also have individual class leaderboards?" I mean, actual MMR and season to season rating are two different things after all. But when you sit down and think about it and actually take a look at how this would work, you'll see that it just couldn't, for all of the reasons that were already listed.

    After giving it a good 30 minutes of thought over a hot cup of coffee, I can see why Arenanet says this is never going to happen.

    The 10 Commandments Of Conquest
    Abide by the commandments or God shalt deliver unto thee a packet of salt as often as thou did break them
    -> https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/38081/the-10-commandments-of-conquest#1

  • @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Example: Guy plays Plat 2 as a Necro but only Gold 2 as a Thief. Guy ques match as his Thief, planning on swapping to Reaper when the match starts.
    @Spartacus.3192 said:

    @Dahkeus.8243 said:
    If I remember right, this got abused quite a bit since people would queue for games on a class they never played and then switch to their main before the game started in order to face off against people they could wipe easily.

    ANET said they would only implement class based MMR rating if class switching was disabled once a person accepted a match. players voted it down. So ANET didnt implement it.

    Nothing more to discuss unless you can persuade ANET to make another poll asking the same question again.

    Its very simple if you want class based mmr you need to prevented from switching classes once you have accepted the match pop window.

  • Would just like to state right now if you play one class you're good with and another you're not you will go on a losing streak until your rating reflects your lower skilled class and then go to 50/50. If you switch back to your good class you go on a winning streak until you go back to your previous rating and then it 50/50's. I did this a few times.

  • Dahkeus.8243Dahkeus.8243 Member ✭✭✭

    @ParanoidKami.2867 said:
    Would just like to state right now if you play one class you're good with and another you're not you will go on a losing streak until your rating reflects your lower skilled class and then go to 50/50. If you switch back to your good class you go on a winning streak until you go back to your previous rating and then it 50/50's. I did this a few times.

    Sounds like a pretty shady way to manipulate your matches. Probably not technically against ToS, but definitely seems against the spirit of the rules since you're intentionally tanking your rating in order to stomp people of lower ranking.

  • @Dahkeus.8243 said:

    @ParanoidKami.2867 said:
    Would just like to state right now if you play one class you're good with and another you're not you will go on a losing streak until your rating reflects your lower skilled class and then go to 50/50. If you switch back to your good class you go on a winning streak until you go back to your previous rating and then it 50/50's. I did this a few times.

    Sounds like a pretty shady way to manipulate your matches. Probably not technically against ToS, but definitely seems against the spirit of the rules since you're intentionally tanking your rating in order to stomp people of lower ranking.

    Lol, no I'm not. Read more carefully. I want to play multiple classes and that's just what happens when I switch because I'm either at a different skill level with another class or using a fun build that's not so good competively.

  • After such a change asm spliting rankings between professions, people would not be able switch after matchmaking.

    Call me mr Obvious but the saltiness of pvp forum will rise by 100%

  • Even it is good idea from my point of view

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