Why kill power chrono? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Why kill power chrono?

RabbitUp.8294RabbitUp.8294 Member ✭✭✭

The initial class burp was all focused on support chrono and mirage, and then you have this here sneaky little change:

"• Signet of the Ether: This skill's recharge time now begins at the same time as phantasm skills are recharged."

Why? Why completely kill dps chrono without any compensatory buff? Even a nerf to Danger Time without at least reworking it so that it becomes a lot more realistic to take in pve scenarios, since slow uptime is quite limited.

The dps numbers were perfectly in-line with the rest of the meta, the rotation was fun and engaging, and we are not going to get a new expansion for quite a while, so it's not like mesmer was going to get a power spec any time soon. So of course the most logical thing to do was kill power chrono. To say that I'm extremely disappointed is putting it lightly.

<1

Comments

  • kasoki.5180kasoki.5180 Member ✭✭✭

    I have re-read this skill change few times now and I have to admit I am not sure i understand what it exactly means.

    On topic of danger time. Power Chrono was strong and used even before recent changes to danger time. And if i'm not mistaken back then Improved Alacrity was taken. Danger time made it way to strong and its the change that realistically shouldn't have been introduced.

    Overall, I think that power chrono is far from dead with these new changes.

  • First of all I knew SotEther had it coming. It was most likely unintended behaviour.

    Then, power chrono is not dead yet. Focus build will suffer a lot but the GS rota (which is the more interesting one imo) will still be able to 4x cast iZerk&iDisench and 2x cast iDefender. Focus might need to stick to its current rotation and deal with the fact that it looses 1 row of phantasms which decreases the initial burst a bunch. That beeing said it is possible to do a 4x sword 3x disench and 2x defender rotation on that build.


    [1x],[2x],... <--These are cast counters for the phantasms to show how often each phantasm gets cast in total.

    (experimental) new Greatsword opening


    1. Illusionary Leap
    2. Phantasmal Swordsman [1x]
    3. Weapon Swap
    4. Mirror Blade
    5. Mind Stab
    6. Phantasmal Berserker [1x]
    7. Continuum Split
    8. Phantasmal Disenchanter [1x]
    9. Signet of the Ether
    10. Phantasmal Berserker [2x]
    11. Phantasmal Disenchanter [2x]
    12. Continuum Shift (ends)
    13. Phantasmal Berserker [3x]
    14. Phantasmal Disenchanter [3x]
    15. Phantasmal Defender [1x]
    16. Signet of the Ether
    17. Phantasmal Berserker [4x]
    18. Weapon Swap
    19. Phantasmal Swordsman [2x]
    20. Phantasmal Disenchanter [4x]
    21. Phantasmal Defender [2x]

    -> Go into loop (I only did the Opening)


    It might be worth it addind Mirror Blade and Mind Stab between 17 and 18 but I didn't test that.

    (experimental) new Focus opening


    1. Illusionary Leap
    2. Phantasmal Warden [1x]
    3. Weapon Swap
    4. Phantasmal Swordsman [1x]
    5. Continuum Split
    6. Phantasmal Disenchanter [1x]
    7. Signet of the Ether
    8. Phantasmal Swordsman [2x]
    9. Continuum Shift (ends)
    10. Phantasmal Swordsman [3x]
    11. Phantasmal Disenchanter [2x]
    12. Phantasmal Defender [1x]
    13. Signet of the Ether
    14. Phantasmal Swordsman [4x]
    15. Weapon Swap
    16. Phantasmal Warden [2x]
    17. Phantasmal Disenchanter [3x]
    18. Phantasmal Defender [2x]

    -> Go into loop (I only did the Opening)

  • @kasoki.5180 said:
    I have re-read this skill change few times now and I have to admit I am not sure i understand what it exactly means.

    On topic of danger time. Power Chrono was strong and used even before recent changes to danger time. And if i'm not mistaken back then Improved Alacrity was taken. Danger time made it way to strong and its the change that realistically shouldn't have been introduced.

    Overall, I think that power chrono is far from dead with these new changes.

    The common interpretation is that the signet of ether continuum split phantasm refresh feature that allowed you to cast 4 sets of phantasms back to back was removed, and after patch you will only be able to cast 3 sets max. This doesn’t only affect damage via phantasms, but also clone generation and related mods and skills (e.g. mind wrack and ammo for other shatters).

    Power chrono is (currently) strong within certain contexts (solo play, low buff environment) but has fundamental flaws that make it somewhat unfavourable to other options, most of which arise from the the build’s burst potential. pchrono’s dmg layout can be considered condi-like despite actually being power - its burst requires build up, doesn’t really peak but is more spread out and completely flubbers when the target dies or phases. pchrono’s burst is also fairly infrequent and risky to perform, sitting at a 60-105s cd depending on traits and alacrity uptime. A bird instab (frequent blinds), interrupts or forced dodge can ruin most of the csplit combo. This change dumbs down the flawed burst even more.

    The nerf to danger time was warranted, before pchrono sat at 33-34k, DT raised that to 40k+ but now players predict pchrono is going to bench at ~26k, now with an even weaker burst.

    pChrono (main), cWeaver and pReaper. An asura who likes snowflakes.

  • RabbitUp.8294RabbitUp.8294 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 28, 2019

    @Noodle Ant.1605 said:
    The nerf to danger time was warranted, before pchrono sat at 33-34k, DT raised that to 40k+ but now players predict pchrono is going to bench at ~26k, now with an even weaker burst.

    DT was unrealistic and only possible on golem. There's no way you can have perma slow on a boss under normal conditions, unless you bring a couple of condi renegades or something.

    Nerfing it is one thing, but why not rework it? Make it work when chrono has quickness or alacrity or something that's more realistic anyway, so you can reliably have 100% uptime and not have to wear so many assassins pieces.

    @kasoki.5180 said:
    I have re-read this skill change few times now and I have to admit I am not sure i understand what it exactly means.

    SotE refreshes the cooldown of your phantasms before it puts itself on cooldown. So, in that small window, you could cast Continuum Split. What happened was that chrono opening was casting all phantasms and do the SotE trick I mentioned, then go to CS with at least 1 clone. During that CS, your phantasms had already reset, so you could cast them again, then after CS ends, your SotE is reset and your phantasms are still up, so your get a 3rd round of phantasms, then SotE for the 4th round.

    On topic of danger time. Power Chrono was strong and used even before recent changes to danger time. And if i'm not mistaken back then Improved Alacrity was taken. Danger time made it way to strong and its the change that realistically shouldn't have been introduced.

    Improved Alacrity is taken, but Danger Time could have been an option for pChrono to fall back on, since the build uses a lot of assassins pieces. If DT was a reliable way to get that crit chance, pChrono could have replaced those assassins pieces with zerkers. Well, that's not going to happen now.

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 28, 2019

    Signet of Ether bugfix is fine. Danger time should not have been nerfed at least in PvP.

    I really cannot understand how they buff moa in PvE but split it from PvP, even though not a single decent mesmer has used it in PvP since the nerf. Then they nerf danger time due to PvE but DON'T split it in PvP, where no meta build uses it. It should be the exact reverse.

    Now bunker chrono will be even more dominant in PvP than it already was.

    Are the splits completely random?

    // Yanim

  • you still have Lost Time in pvp which is kitten OP

  • RabbitUp.8294RabbitUp.8294 Member ✭✭✭

    @Quadox.7834 said:
    Signet of Ether bugfix is fine. Danger time should not have been nerfed at least in PvP.

    I really cannot understand how they buff moa in PvE but split it from PvP, even though not a single decent mesmer has used it in PvP since the nerf. Then they nerf danger time due to PvE but DON'T split it in PvP, where no meta build uses it. It should be the exact reverse.

    Now bunker chrono will be even more dominant in PvP than it already was.

    Are the splits completely random?

    This thread has nothing to do with pvp, what is it with pvpers that feel the need to make everything a pvp rant?

    This is the death of a perfectly fine and balanced pve dps build for no reason at all. So no, the "bugfix" is not fine.

  • Levetty.1279Levetty.1279 Member ✭✭✭

    @RabbitUp.8294 said:

    @Quadox.7834 said:
    Signet of Ether bugfix is fine. Danger time should not have been nerfed at least in PvP.

    I really cannot understand how they buff moa in PvE but split it from PvP, even though not a single decent mesmer has used it in PvP since the nerf. Then they nerf danger time due to PvE but DON'T split it in PvP, where no meta build uses it. It should be the exact reverse.

    Now bunker chrono will be even more dominant in PvP than it already was.

    Are the splits completely random?

    This thread has nothing to do with pvp, what is it with pvpers that feel the need to make everything a pvp rant?

    This is the death of a perfectly fine and balanced pve dps build for no reason at all. So no, the "bugfix" is not fine.

    Its been a recurring theme since launch that if PvP player want a class nerfed then they want it nerfed in PvE too out of spite.

    "PvE dictates balance changes"
    Yeah I'm sure there was a big PvE outcry to stop a DPS class from dodging out of aoe attacks.

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭

    @Levetty.1279 said:

    @RabbitUp.8294 said:

    @Quadox.7834 said:
    Signet of Ether bugfix is fine. Danger time should not have been nerfed at least in PvP.

    I really cannot understand how they buff moa in PvE but split it from PvP, even though not a single decent mesmer has used it in PvP since the nerf. Then they nerf danger time due to PvE but DON'T split it in PvP, where no meta build uses it. It should be the exact reverse.

    Now bunker chrono will be even more dominant in PvP than it already was.

    Are the splits completely random?

    This thread has nothing to do with pvp, what is it with pvpers that feel the need to make everything a pvp rant?

    This is the death of a perfectly fine and balanced pve dps build for no reason at all. So no, the "bugfix" is not fine.

    Its been a recurring theme since launch that if PvP player want a class nerfed then they want it nerfed in PvE too out of spite.

    "PvE dictates balance changes"
    Yeah I'm sure there was a big PvE outcry to stop a DPS class from dodging out of aoe attacks.

    This very change we are discussing is a prime example of PvE balancing.
    "Its been a recurring theme since launch that if PvP player want a class nerfed then they want it nerfed in PvE too out of spite."
    This is an outright lie if you can't provide any evidence. Why on earth would anyone want that??

    // Yanim

  • Levetty.1279Levetty.1279 Member ✭✭✭

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @Levetty.1279 said:

    @RabbitUp.8294 said:

    @Quadox.7834 said:
    Signet of Ether bugfix is fine. Danger time should not have been nerfed at least in PvP.

    I really cannot understand how they buff moa in PvE but split it from PvP, even though not a single decent mesmer has used it in PvP since the nerf. Then they nerf danger time due to PvE but DON'T split it in PvP, where no meta build uses it. It should be the exact reverse.

    Now bunker chrono will be even more dominant in PvP than it already was.

    Are the splits completely random?

    This thread has nothing to do with pvp, what is it with pvpers that feel the need to make everything a pvp rant?

    This is the death of a perfectly fine and balanced pve dps build for no reason at all. So no, the "bugfix" is not fine.

    Its been a recurring theme since launch that if PvP player want a class nerfed then they want it nerfed in PvE too out of spite.

    "PvE dictates balance changes"
    Yeah I'm sure there was a big PvE outcry to stop a DPS class from dodging out of aoe attacks.

    This very change we are discussing is a prime example of PvE balancing.
    "Its been a recurring theme since launch that if PvP player want a class nerfed then they want it nerfed in PvE too out of spite."
    This is an outright lie if you can't provide any evidence. Why on earth would anyone want that??

    Pro tip, if you don't want people to think you are a troll don't just burst out insulting them and proving them right. There have been hundreds of threads on the old forums and posts on reddit proving it.

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 28, 2019

    @Levetty.1279 said:

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @Levetty.1279 said:

    @RabbitUp.8294 said:

    @Quadox.7834 said:
    Signet of Ether bugfix is fine. Danger time should not have been nerfed at least in PvP.

    I really cannot understand how they buff moa in PvE but split it from PvP, even though not a single decent mesmer has used it in PvP since the nerf. Then they nerf danger time due to PvE but DON'T split it in PvP, where no meta build uses it. It should be the exact reverse.

    Now bunker chrono will be even more dominant in PvP than it already was.

    Are the splits completely random?

    This thread has nothing to do with pvp, what is it with pvpers that feel the need to make everything a pvp rant?

    This is the death of a perfectly fine and balanced pve dps build for no reason at all. So no, the "bugfix" is not fine.

    Its been a recurring theme since launch that if PvP player want a class nerfed then they want it nerfed in PvE too out of spite.

    "PvE dictates balance changes"
    Yeah I'm sure there was a big PvE outcry to stop a DPS class from dodging out of aoe attacks.

    This very change we are discussing is a prime example of PvE balancing.
    "Its been a recurring theme since launch that if PvP player want a class nerfed then they want it nerfed in PvE too out of spite."
    This is an outright lie if you can't provide any evidence. Why on earth would anyone want that??

    Pro tip, if you don't want people to think you are a troll don't just burst out insulting them and proving them right. There have been hundreds of threads on the old forums and posts on reddit proving it.

    1. Never insulted you.
    2. "Proving them right" - never happened. You made that up.
    3. "There have been hundreds of threads on the old forums and posts on reddit proving it" - you haven't shown any. In either case, this is irrelevant, as I don't want a class nerfed in PvE "out of spite". This is a ridiculous idea, as I said I love for power chrono (and support chrono) to be viable in PvE.

    // Yanim

  • >

    The common interpretation is that the signet of ether continuum split phantasm refresh feature that allowed you to cast 4 sets of phantasms back to back was removed, and after patch you will only be able to cast 3 sets max. This doesn’t only affect damage via phantasms, but also clone generation and related mods and skills (e.g. mind wrack and ammo for other shatters).

    As I have said above we'll probably go from using (Sword, Disen, Def) in a 4 4 4 scenario to a 4 3 2 scenario. As swordsman is the highest damaging phantasm we will probably priorize this one. For GS where we did (Zerk, Disen, Def) 4 4 4 we will now probably do 4 4 2 (as we have more initial clones. Keep in mind that a 3 clone start will make it possible to still run 4 4 4 on both builds (e.g. MO Sw4 precasting).

  • Noodle Ant.1605Noodle Ant.1605 Member ✭✭✭

    @Me Games Ma.8426 said:
    As I have said above we'll probably go from using (Sword, Disen, Def) in a 4 4 4 scenario to a 4 3 2 scenario. As swordsman is the highest damaging phantasm we will probably priorize this one. For GS where we did (Zerk, Disen, Def) 4 4 4 we will now probably do 4 4 2 (as we have more initial clones. Keep in mind that a 3 clone start will make it possible to still run 4 4 4 on both builds (e.g. MO Sw4 precasting).

    I’m already pretending that patch already hit, so I’ve replaced mantra with mirror images. This way I get most of my entire burst back, but minus some extra dps from the periodical power spike (which could always be replaced by SoI anyway). I’ve always been playing IA focus so the DT nerf doesn’t mean much personally, and I don’t think the change isn’t completely death-of-spec drastic - maybe still be hovering around 30k, DT at 33-35k post patch, but I don’t do benchmarks. Also the highest benchmarks would likely drop a bit due to bannershave (which sadly hits pchrono harder than a lot of other specs).

    This does however make the pchrono rotation somewhat more interesting because the combo is now longer (3s -> 4.5/6s) with only 1 or 2s of distort to cover because dodging breaks the combo (hello perma-blind birds, consta-rupt molten zerker, siren’s reef and now brazen gladiator, I’ve always hated you since I play this spec), and requires 2 or 3 clones as opposed to 1. The spec definitely won’t be as braindead compared to before.

    Now I’m just waiting for patch to hit to see the differences between ~6 ish variants of pchrono, dom/illu (gs/focus), DT/IA and mantra/images, if people are willing to test them all...

    On a random note, even if the phantasm refresh bug/feature was existent for some time, I don’t think the double heal from SoE was intended. Also for the extra crit chance on DT, I believe it would be better to place it within core mes (maybe duel) so all power mes variants, including future ones, aren’t pigeonholed into assassin gear. The dmg mod could be increased and split two-way between quickness on self and slow on foe, or three-way with quickness, alacrity and slow. And well of calamity, does it even exist anymore?

    pChrono (main), cWeaver and pReaper. An asura who likes snowflakes.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @RabbitUp.8294 said:
    The initial class burp was all focused on support chrono and mirage, and then you have this here sneaky little change:

    "• Signet of the Ether: This skill's recharge time now begins at the same time as phantasm skills are recharged."

    Why? Why completely kill dps chrono without any compensatory buff? Even a nerf to Danger Time without at least reworking it so that it becomes a lot more realistic to take in pve scenarios, since slow uptime is quite limited.

    The dps numbers were perfectly in-line with the rest of the meta, the rotation was fun and engaging, and we are not going to get a new expansion for quite a while, so it's not like mesmer was going to get a power spec any time soon. So of course the most logical thing to do was kill power chrono. To say that I'm extremely disappointed is putting it lightly.

    I never liked Chrono DPS. Chronomancer is the support build that buffs allies with quickness and alacrity as well as having tons of defensive options. Mirage is the DPS spec. Elite specializations need to be balanced around unique niches for them to be in a healthy state. This is like if Druids were suddenly the best ranger DPS build. It's not healthy for the game's balance if Druid does both it's role and Soubleast's role better than Soulbeast did.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @RabbitUp.8294 said:
    The initial class burp was all focused on support chrono and mirage, and then you have this here sneaky little change:

    "• Signet of the Ether: This skill's recharge time now begins at the same time as phantasm skills are recharged."

    Why? Why completely kill dps chrono without any compensatory buff? Even a nerf to Danger Time without at least reworking it so that it becomes a lot more realistic to take in pve scenarios, since slow uptime is quite limited.

    The dps numbers were perfectly in-line with the rest of the meta, the rotation was fun and engaging, and we are not going to get a new expansion for quite a while, so it's not like mesmer was going to get a power spec any time soon. So of course the most logical thing to do was kill power chrono. To say that I'm extremely disappointed is putting it lightly.

    I never liked Chrono DPS. Chronomancer is the support build that buffs allies with quickness and alacrity as well as having tons of defensive options. Mirage is the DPS spec. Elite specializations need to be balanced around unique niches for them to be in a healthy state. This is like if Druids were suddenly the best ranger DPS build. It's not healthy for the game's balance if Druid does both it's role and Soubleast's role better than Soulbeast did.

    Yea it's definitely not healthy if support build would make high dps, but what's ur problem with chrono in zerk dealing meta dps? I don't think chronophantasma was meant to be support trait. It s good for game if 1 spec can do multiple roles

    make prepardness baseline plz

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2, 2019

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @RabbitUp.8294 said:
    The initial class burp was all focused on support chrono and mirage, and then you have this here sneaky little change:

    "• Signet of the Ether: This skill's recharge time now begins at the same time as phantasm skills are recharged."

    Why? Why completely kill dps chrono without any compensatory buff? Even a nerf to Danger Time without at least reworking it so that it becomes a lot more realistic to take in pve scenarios, since slow uptime is quite limited.

    The dps numbers were perfectly in-line with the rest of the meta, the rotation was fun and engaging, and we are not going to get a new expansion for quite a while, so it's not like mesmer was going to get a power spec any time soon. So of course the most logical thing to do was kill power chrono. To say that I'm extremely disappointed is putting it lightly.

    I never liked Chrono DPS. Chronomancer is the support build that buffs allies with quickness and alacrity as well as having tons of defensive options. Mirage is the DPS spec. Elite specializations need to be balanced around unique niches for them to be in a healthy state. This is like if Druids were suddenly the best ranger DPS build. It's not healthy for the game's balance if Druid does both it's role and Soubleast's role better than Soulbeast did.

    Yea it's definitely not healthy if support build would make high dps, but what's ur problem with chrono in zerk dealing meta dps? I don't think chronophantasma was meant to be support trait. It s good for game if 1 spec can do multiple roles

    Chronophantasma was originally built in a way that was only good on support because for PvE Power mesmer before Path of Fire you never wanted to shatter your phantasms. You let them ramp up with Phantasmal Force and leave them be. Where as support frequently did shatter for things like Continuum Split, Distortion, and Distraction.

    Chronophantasma effectively doubling the damage of phantasms was a poorly thought out attempt to try and keep the flavor of old chronophantasma and never really made sense. A lot of things about the phantasm update weren't particularly well thought out.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @RabbitUp.8294 said:
    The initial class burp was all focused on support chrono and mirage, and then you have this here sneaky little change:

    "• Signet of the Ether: This skill's recharge time now begins at the same time as phantasm skills are recharged."

    Why? Why completely kill dps chrono without any compensatory buff? Even a nerf to Danger Time without at least reworking it so that it becomes a lot more realistic to take in pve scenarios, since slow uptime is quite limited.

    The dps numbers were perfectly in-line with the rest of the meta, the rotation was fun and engaging, and we are not going to get a new expansion for quite a while, so it's not like mesmer was going to get a power spec any time soon. So of course the most logical thing to do was kill power chrono. To say that I'm extremely disappointed is putting it lightly.

    I never liked Chrono DPS. Chronomancer is the support build that buffs allies with quickness and alacrity as well as having tons of defensive options. Mirage is the DPS spec. Elite specializations need to be balanced around unique niches for them to be in a healthy state. This is like if Druids were suddenly the best ranger DPS build. It's not healthy for the game's balance if Druid does both it's role and Soubleast's role better than Soulbeast did.

    Yea it's definitely not healthy if support build would make high dps, but what's ur problem with chrono in zerk dealing meta dps? I don't think chronophantasma was meant to be support trait. It s good for game if 1 spec can do multiple roles

    Chronophantasma was originally built in a way that was only good on support because for PvE Power mesmer before Path of Fire you never wanted to shatter your phantasms. You let them ramp up with Phantasmal Force and leave them be. Where as support frequently did shatter for things like Continuum Split, Distortion, and Distraction.

    Chronophantasma effectively doubling the damage of phantasms was a poorly thought out attempt to try and keep the flavor of old chronophantasma and never really made sense. A lot of things about the phantasm update weren't particularly well thought out.

    OK but still what's ur problem with specs having more than 1 role. It would be bad for build diversity

    make prepardness baseline plz

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @RabbitUp.8294 said:
    The initial class burp was all focused on support chrono and mirage, and then you have this here sneaky little change:

    "• Signet of the Ether: This skill's recharge time now begins at the same time as phantasm skills are recharged."

    Why? Why completely kill dps chrono without any compensatory buff? Even a nerf to Danger Time without at least reworking it so that it becomes a lot more realistic to take in pve scenarios, since slow uptime is quite limited.

    The dps numbers were perfectly in-line with the rest of the meta, the rotation was fun and engaging, and we are not going to get a new expansion for quite a while, so it's not like mesmer was going to get a power spec any time soon. So of course the most logical thing to do was kill power chrono. To say that I'm extremely disappointed is putting it lightly.

    I never liked Chrono DPS. Chronomancer is the support build that buffs allies with quickness and alacrity as well as having tons of defensive options. Mirage is the DPS spec. Elite specializations need to be balanced around unique niches for them to be in a healthy state. This is like if Druids were suddenly the best ranger DPS build. It's not healthy for the game's balance if Druid does both it's role and Soubleast's role better than Soulbeast did.

    Yea it's definitely not healthy if support build would make high dps, but what's ur problem with chrono in zerk dealing meta dps? I don't think chronophantasma was meant to be support trait. It s good for game if 1 spec can do multiple roles

    Chronophantasma was originally built in a way that was only good on support because for PvE Power mesmer before Path of Fire you never wanted to shatter your phantasms. You let them ramp up with Phantasmal Force and leave them be. Where as support frequently did shatter for things like Continuum Split, Distortion, and Distraction.

    Chronophantasma effectively doubling the damage of phantasms was a poorly thought out attempt to try and keep the flavor of old chronophantasma and never really made sense. A lot of things about the phantasm update weren't particularly well thought out.

    OK but still what's ur problem with specs having more than 1 role. It would be bad for build diversity

    What's going to be bad for diversity is if the next mesmer elite spec is a dedicated high DPS less bursty power spec and has absolutely no place in the game because if you want Power DPS Chronomancer will be better.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @RabbitUp.8294 said:
    The initial class burp was all focused on support chrono and mirage, and then you have this here sneaky little change:

    "• Signet of the Ether: This skill's recharge time now begins at the same time as phantasm skills are recharged."

    Why? Why completely kill dps chrono without any compensatory buff? Even a nerf to Danger Time without at least reworking it so that it becomes a lot more realistic to take in pve scenarios, since slow uptime is quite limited.

    The dps numbers were perfectly in-line with the rest of the meta, the rotation was fun and engaging, and we are not going to get a new expansion for quite a while, so it's not like mesmer was going to get a power spec any time soon. So of course the most logical thing to do was kill power chrono. To say that I'm extremely disappointed is putting it lightly.

    I never liked Chrono DPS. Chronomancer is the support build that buffs allies with quickness and alacrity as well as having tons of defensive options. Mirage is the DPS spec. Elite specializations need to be balanced around unique niches for them to be in a healthy state. This is like if Druids were suddenly the best ranger DPS build. It's not healthy for the game's balance if Druid does both it's role and Soubleast's role better than Soulbeast did.

    Yea it's definitely not healthy if support build would make high dps, but what's ur problem with chrono in zerk dealing meta dps? I don't think chronophantasma was meant to be support trait. It s good for game if 1 spec can do multiple roles

    Chronophantasma was originally built in a way that was only good on support because for PvE Power mesmer before Path of Fire you never wanted to shatter your phantasms. You let them ramp up with Phantasmal Force and leave them be. Where as support frequently did shatter for things like Continuum Split, Distortion, and Distraction.

    Chronophantasma effectively doubling the damage of phantasms was a poorly thought out attempt to try and keep the flavor of old chronophantasma and never really made sense. A lot of things about the phantasm update weren't particularly well thought out.

    OK but still what's ur problem with specs having more than 1 role. It would be bad for build diversity

    What's going to be bad for diversity is if the next mesmer elite spec is a dedicated high DPS less bursty power spec and has absolutely no place in the game because if you want Power DPS Chronomancer will be better.

    There's something called balance patches, that should make benchmarks equal. If someone like playing chrono than let him play, heal, dps or boonsupport as this class. Don't force him to go mirage cuz it's "dps class"

    make prepardness baseline plz

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @RabbitUp.8294 said:
    The initial class burp was all focused on support chrono and mirage, and then you have this here sneaky little change:

    "• Signet of the Ether: This skill's recharge time now begins at the same time as phantasm skills are recharged."

    Why? Why completely kill dps chrono without any compensatory buff? Even a nerf to Danger Time without at least reworking it so that it becomes a lot more realistic to take in pve scenarios, since slow uptime is quite limited.

    The dps numbers were perfectly in-line with the rest of the meta, the rotation was fun and engaging, and we are not going to get a new expansion for quite a while, so it's not like mesmer was going to get a power spec any time soon. So of course the most logical thing to do was kill power chrono. To say that I'm extremely disappointed is putting it lightly.

    I never liked Chrono DPS. Chronomancer is the support build that buffs allies with quickness and alacrity as well as having tons of defensive options. Mirage is the DPS spec. Elite specializations need to be balanced around unique niches for them to be in a healthy state. This is like if Druids were suddenly the best ranger DPS build. It's not healthy for the game's balance if Druid does both it's role and Soubleast's role better than Soulbeast did.

    Yea it's definitely not healthy if support build would make high dps, but what's ur problem with chrono in zerk dealing meta dps? I don't think chronophantasma was meant to be support trait. It s good for game if 1 spec can do multiple roles

    Chronophantasma was originally built in a way that was only good on support because for PvE Power mesmer before Path of Fire you never wanted to shatter your phantasms. You let them ramp up with Phantasmal Force and leave them be. Where as support frequently did shatter for things like Continuum Split, Distortion, and Distraction.

    Chronophantasma effectively doubling the damage of phantasms was a poorly thought out attempt to try and keep the flavor of old chronophantasma and never really made sense. A lot of things about the phantasm update weren't particularly well thought out.

    OK but still what's ur problem with specs having more than 1 role. It would be bad for build diversity

    What's going to be bad for diversity is if the next mesmer elite spec is a dedicated high DPS less bursty power spec and has absolutely no place in the game because if you want Power DPS Chronomancer will be better.

    There's something called balance patches, that should make benchmarks equal. If someone like playing chrono than let him play, heal, dps or boonsupport as this class. Don't force him to go mirage cuz it's "dps class"

    Because then there's no point in having specializations, elite or otherwise, at all.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @RabbitUp.8294 said:
    The initial class burp was all focused on support chrono and mirage, and then you have this here sneaky little change:

    "• Signet of the Ether: This skill's recharge time now begins at the same time as phantasm skills are recharged."

    Why? Why completely kill dps chrono without any compensatory buff? Even a nerf to Danger Time without at least reworking it so that it becomes a lot more realistic to take in pve scenarios, since slow uptime is quite limited.

    The dps numbers were perfectly in-line with the rest of the meta, the rotation was fun and engaging, and we are not going to get a new expansion for quite a while, so it's not like mesmer was going to get a power spec any time soon. So of course the most logical thing to do was kill power chrono. To say that I'm extremely disappointed is putting it lightly.

    I never liked Chrono DPS. Chronomancer is the support build that buffs allies with quickness and alacrity as well as having tons of defensive options. Mirage is the DPS spec. Elite specializations need to be balanced around unique niches for them to be in a healthy state. This is like if Druids were suddenly the best ranger DPS build. It's not healthy for the game's balance if Druid does both it's role and Soubleast's role better than Soulbeast did.

    Yea it's definitely not healthy if support build would make high dps, but what's ur problem with chrono in zerk dealing meta dps? I don't think chronophantasma was meant to be support trait. It s good for game if 1 spec can do multiple roles

    Chronophantasma was originally built in a way that was only good on support because for PvE Power mesmer before Path of Fire you never wanted to shatter your phantasms. You let them ramp up with Phantasmal Force and leave them be. Where as support frequently did shatter for things like Continuum Split, Distortion, and Distraction.

    Chronophantasma effectively doubling the damage of phantasms was a poorly thought out attempt to try and keep the flavor of old chronophantasma and never really made sense. A lot of things about the phantasm update weren't particularly well thought out.

    OK but still what's ur problem with specs having more than 1 role. It would be bad for build diversity

    What's going to be bad for diversity is if the next mesmer elite spec is a dedicated high DPS less bursty power spec and has absolutely no place in the game because if you want Power DPS Chronomancer will be better.

    There's something called balance patches, that should make benchmarks equal. If someone like playing chrono than let him play, heal, dps or boonsupport as this class. Don't force him to go mirage cuz it's "dps class"

    Because then there's no point in having specializations, elite or otherwise, at all.

    ofc there is. its a game style. some ppl want to be dodgy thief, some want to abuse stealth and pew pew from far away, some ppl want to manipulate time and cd, some want to be invincible kitten, some ppl want to be kitten reaper, some want to manipulate area with shades, some want to read tomes, and some want to put traps and pull enemies into it. but forcing certain playstyle to a role is a mistake

    make prepardness baseline plz

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2, 2019

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @RabbitUp.8294 said:
    The initial class burp was all focused on support chrono and mirage, and then you have this here sneaky little change:

    "• Signet of the Ether: This skill's recharge time now begins at the same time as phantasm skills are recharged."

    Why? Why completely kill dps chrono without any compensatory buff? Even a nerf to Danger Time without at least reworking it so that it becomes a lot more realistic to take in pve scenarios, since slow uptime is quite limited.

    The dps numbers were perfectly in-line with the rest of the meta, the rotation was fun and engaging, and we are not going to get a new expansion for quite a while, so it's not like mesmer was going to get a power spec any time soon. So of course the most logical thing to do was kill power chrono. To say that I'm extremely disappointed is putting it lightly.

    I never liked Chrono DPS. Chronomancer is the support build that buffs allies with quickness and alacrity as well as having tons of defensive options. Mirage is the DPS spec. Elite specializations need to be balanced around unique niches for them to be in a healthy state. This is like if Druids were suddenly the best ranger DPS build. It's not healthy for the game's balance if Druid does both it's role and Soubleast's role better than Soulbeast did.

    Yea it's definitely not healthy if support build would make high dps, but what's ur problem with chrono in zerk dealing meta dps? I don't think chronophantasma was meant to be support trait. It s good for game if 1 spec can do multiple roles

    Chronophantasma was originally built in a way that was only good on support because for PvE Power mesmer before Path of Fire you never wanted to shatter your phantasms. You let them ramp up with Phantasmal Force and leave them be. Where as support frequently did shatter for things like Continuum Split, Distortion, and Distraction.

    Chronophantasma effectively doubling the damage of phantasms was a poorly thought out attempt to try and keep the flavor of old chronophantasma and never really made sense. A lot of things about the phantasm update weren't particularly well thought out.

    OK but still what's ur problem with specs having more than 1 role. It would be bad for build diversity

    What's going to be bad for diversity is if the next mesmer elite spec is a dedicated high DPS less bursty power spec and has absolutely no place in the game because if you want Power DPS Chronomancer will be better.

    There's something called balance patches, that should make benchmarks equal. If someone like playing chrono than let him play, heal, dps or boonsupport as this class. Don't force him to go mirage cuz it's "dps class"

    Because then there's no point in having specializations, elite or otherwise, at all.

    ofc there is. its a game style. some ppl want to be dodgy thief, some want to abuse stealth and pew pew from far away, some ppl want to manipulate time and cd, some want to be invincible kitten, some ppl want to be kitten reaper, some want to manipulate area with shades, some want to read tomes, and some want to put traps and pull enemies into it. but forcing certain playstyle to a role is a mistake

    Okay but what if I want permanent stealth but don't want to take Shadow Arts?! I should be able to have permanent stealth while taking all max damage specializations it's not fair. Why can't I play the way I want to play?!

    And yeah, guess what with Reaper Condi Reaper is not good in PvE or PvP. It's a dedicated power spec. In fact when condi reaper was good people hated it because they wanted the specialization to be power melee orientated and it was terrible at that. Now it's great at that in PvP and workable in PvE. Scourge is a long ranged, AoE condi bomber. It's would be terrible design if reaper was both the best condition spec, the best power damage spec and better at both than Scourge. Scourge would have no place in the game.

    The point of different specializations is that they excel at different unique things. That's where flavor comes from, what you're good at and what you're not so good at. Chronomancer has always been a defensively orientated support spec. There can never be a new Power Damage spec so long as Power Chronomancer exists.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @RabbitUp.8294 said:
    The initial class burp was all focused on support chrono and mirage, and then you have this here sneaky little change:

    "• Signet of the Ether: This skill's recharge time now begins at the same time as phantasm skills are recharged."

    Why? Why completely kill dps chrono without any compensatory buff? Even a nerf to Danger Time without at least reworking it so that it becomes a lot more realistic to take in pve scenarios, since slow uptime is quite limited.

    The dps numbers were perfectly in-line with the rest of the meta, the rotation was fun and engaging, and we are not going to get a new expansion for quite a while, so it's not like mesmer was going to get a power spec any time soon. So of course the most logical thing to do was kill power chrono. To say that I'm extremely disappointed is putting it lightly.

    I never liked Chrono DPS. Chronomancer is the support build that buffs allies with quickness and alacrity as well as having tons of defensive options. Mirage is the DPS spec. Elite specializations need to be balanced around unique niches for them to be in a healthy state. This is like if Druids were suddenly the best ranger DPS build. It's not healthy for the game's balance if Druid does both it's role and Soubleast's role better than Soulbeast did.

    Yea it's definitely not healthy if support build would make high dps, but what's ur problem with chrono in zerk dealing meta dps? I don't think chronophantasma was meant to be support trait. It s good for game if 1 spec can do multiple roles

    Chronophantasma was originally built in a way that was only good on support because for PvE Power mesmer before Path of Fire you never wanted to shatter your phantasms. You let them ramp up with Phantasmal Force and leave them be. Where as support frequently did shatter for things like Continuum Split, Distortion, and Distraction.

    Chronophantasma effectively doubling the damage of phantasms was a poorly thought out attempt to try and keep the flavor of old chronophantasma and never really made sense. A lot of things about the phantasm update weren't particularly well thought out.

    OK but still what's ur problem with specs having more than 1 role. It would be bad for build diversity

    What's going to be bad for diversity is if the next mesmer elite spec is a dedicated high DPS less bursty power spec and has absolutely no place in the game because if you want Power DPS Chronomancer will be better.

    There's something called balance patches, that should make benchmarks equal. If someone like playing chrono than let him play, heal, dps or boonsupport as this class. Don't force him to go mirage cuz it's "dps class"

    Because then there's no point in having specializations, elite or otherwise, at all.

    ofc there is. its a game style. some ppl want to be dodgy thief, some want to abuse stealth and pew pew from far away, some ppl want to manipulate time and cd, some want to be invincible kitten, some ppl want to be kitten reaper, some want to manipulate area with shades, some want to read tomes, and some want to put traps and pull enemies into it. but forcing certain playstyle to a role is a mistake

    Okay but what if I want permanent stealth but don't want to take Shadow Arts?! I should be able to have permanent stealth while taking all max damage specializations it's not fair. Why can't I play the way I want to play?!

    And yeah, guess what with Reaper Condi Reaper is not good in PvE or PvP. It's a dedicated power spec. In fact when condi reaper was good people hated it because they wanted the specialization to be power melee orientated and it was terrible at that. Now it's great at that in PvP and workable in PvE. Scourge is a long ranged, AoE condi bomber. It's would be terrible design if reaper was both the best condition spec, the best power damage spec and better at both than Scourge. Scourge would have no place in the game.

    The point of different specializations is that they excel at different unique things. That's where flavor comes from, what you're good at and what you're not so good at. Chronomancer has always been a defensively orientated support spec. There can never be a new Power Damage spec so long as Power Chronomancer exists.

    in first place permastealth shouldnt exist, 2nd off all if u want perma stealth, u should deal no dmg at all and in the last, u dont need sa for perma stealth.

    make prepardness baseline plz

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @RabbitUp.8294 said:
    The initial class burp was all focused on support chrono and mirage, and then you have this here sneaky little change:

    "• Signet of the Ether: This skill's recharge time now begins at the same time as phantasm skills are recharged."

    Why? Why completely kill dps chrono without any compensatory buff? Even a nerf to Danger Time without at least reworking it so that it becomes a lot more realistic to take in pve scenarios, since slow uptime is quite limited.

    The dps numbers were perfectly in-line with the rest of the meta, the rotation was fun and engaging, and we are not going to get a new expansion for quite a while, so it's not like mesmer was going to get a power spec any time soon. So of course the most logical thing to do was kill power chrono. To say that I'm extremely disappointed is putting it lightly.

    I never liked Chrono DPS. Chronomancer is the support build that buffs allies with quickness and alacrity as well as having tons of defensive options. Mirage is the DPS spec. Elite specializations need to be balanced around unique niches for them to be in a healthy state. This is like if Druids were suddenly the best ranger DPS build. It's not healthy for the game's balance if Druid does both it's role and Soubleast's role better than Soulbeast did.

    Yea it's definitely not healthy if support build would make high dps, but what's ur problem with chrono in zerk dealing meta dps? I don't think chronophantasma was meant to be support trait. It s good for game if 1 spec can do multiple roles

    Chronophantasma was originally built in a way that was only good on support because for PvE Power mesmer before Path of Fire you never wanted to shatter your phantasms. You let them ramp up with Phantasmal Force and leave them be. Where as support frequently did shatter for things like Continuum Split, Distortion, and Distraction.

    Chronophantasma effectively doubling the damage of phantasms was a poorly thought out attempt to try and keep the flavor of old chronophantasma and never really made sense. A lot of things about the phantasm update weren't particularly well thought out.

    OK but still what's ur problem with specs having more than 1 role. It would be bad for build diversity

    What's going to be bad for diversity is if the next mesmer elite spec is a dedicated high DPS less bursty power spec and has absolutely no place in the game because if you want Power DPS Chronomancer will be better.

    There's something called balance patches, that should make benchmarks equal. If someone like playing chrono than let him play, heal, dps or boonsupport as this class. Don't force him to go mirage cuz it's "dps class"

    Because then there's no point in having specializations, elite or otherwise, at all.

    ofc there is. its a game style. some ppl want to be dodgy thief, some want to abuse stealth and pew pew from far away, some ppl want to manipulate time and cd, some want to be invincible kitten, some ppl want to be kitten reaper, some want to manipulate area with shades, some want to read tomes, and some want to put traps and pull enemies into it. but forcing certain playstyle to a role is a mistake

    Okay but what if I want permanent stealth but don't want to take Shadow Arts?! I should be able to have permanent stealth while taking all max damage specializations it's not fair. Why can't I play the way I want to play?!

    And yeah, guess what with Reaper Condi Reaper is not good in PvE or PvP. It's a dedicated power spec. In fact when condi reaper was good people hated it because they wanted the specialization to be power melee orientated and it was terrible at that. Now it's great at that in PvP and workable in PvE. Scourge is a long ranged, AoE condi bomber. It's would be terrible design if reaper was both the best condition spec, the best power damage spec and better at both than Scourge. Scourge would have no place in the game.

    The point of different specializations is that they excel at different unique things. That's where flavor comes from, what you're good at and what you're not so good at. Chronomancer has always been a defensively orientated support spec. There can never be a new Power Damage spec so long as Power Chronomancer exists.

    in first place permastealth shouldnt exist, 2nd off all if u want perma stealth, u should deal no dmg at all and in the last, u dont need sa for perma stealth.

    You're hurting my flavor. I should have permanent stealth and meta DPs at the same time always. It's not like it's hurting anybody. What do you have against my flavor?

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • Me Games Ma.8426Me Games Ma.8426 Member ✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062
    Alright let me confront you with facts here:
    When HoT released Tempest was a DPS god and was able to support a bit. Then they buffed the support capabilities and over time slowly nerfed dps tempest.
    Then when PoF released they brought a patch that caused tempest to fall behind weaver and weaver became the best dps. Tempest as of now is still a playable dps but it is not the best for ele and that is whst I expect to happen to mesmer as well.

    Chrono should stay a good power dps option until they release a dedicated pDPS spec. From that point on chrono should be a viable (but slightly worse) pick if you prefer the playstyle.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2, 2019

    @Me Games Ma.8426 said:
    @mortrialus.3062
    Alright let me confront you with facts here:
    When HoT released Tempest was a DPS god and was able to support a bit. Then they buffed the support capabilities and over time slowly nerfed dps tempest.
    Then when PoF released they brought a patch that caused tempest to fall behind weaver and weaver became the best dps. Tempest as of now is still a playable dps but it is not the best for ele and that is whst I expect to happen to mesmer as well.

    Chrono should stay a good power dps option until they release a dedicated pDPS spec. From that point on chrono should be a viable (but slightly worse) pick if you prefer the playstyle.

    I want my permanent stealth top DPS build. Why are you ruining my flavor? Why can't I play what I want to play in the style I want to plaY?

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • EpicTurtle.8571EpicTurtle.8571 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Mort coming in with the expert bait again.

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 2, 2019

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Me Games Ma.8426 said:
    @mortrialus.3062
    Alright let me confront you with facts here:
    When HoT released Tempest was a DPS god and was able to support a bit. Then they buffed the support capabilities and over time slowly nerfed dps tempest.
    Then when PoF released they brought a patch that caused tempest to fall behind weaver and weaver became the best dps. Tempest as of now is still a playable dps but it is not the best for ele and that is whst I expect to happen to mesmer as well.

    Chrono should stay a good power dps option until they release a dedicated pDPS spec. From that point on chrono should be a viable (but slightly worse) pick if you prefer the playstyle.

    I want my permanent stealth top DPS build. Why are you ruining my flavor? Why can't I play what I want to play in the style I want to plaY?

    It's only bait if it's funny.

    (and no, having multiple playstyles/options be viable does not reduce build diversity, that almost sounds like an oxymoron.)

    You are also wrong about chronomancer flavour being about supporting, in reality the design is based on manipulating time, which fits all playstyles (see condi chrono in pvp).

    You are also wrong about Mirage being "the dps spec". If anything it is the condition spec. So if anything, power suits chrono/core more.

    // Yanim

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 6, 2019

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Me Games Ma.8426 said:
    @mortrialus.3062
    Alright let me confront you with facts here:
    When HoT released Tempest was a DPS god and was able to support a bit. Then they buffed the support capabilities and over time slowly nerfed dps tempest.
    Then when PoF released they brought a patch that caused tempest to fall behind weaver and weaver became the best dps. Tempest as of now is still a playable dps but it is not the best for ele and that is whst I expect to happen to mesmer as well.

    Chrono should stay a good power dps option until they release a dedicated pDPS spec. From that point on chrono should be a viable (but slightly worse) pick if you prefer the playstyle.

    I want my permanent stealth top DPS build. Why are you ruining my flavor? Why can't I play what I want to play in the style I want to plaY?

    It's only bait if it's funny.

    (and no, having multiple playstyles/options be viable does not reduce build diversity, that almost sounds like an oxymoron.)

    I think it's a fitting, sarcastic rebuttle to someone who thinks nonsense like Druid as a specializations should out DPS Soulbeast.

    You are also wrong about chronomancer flavour being about supporting, in reality the design is based on manipulating time, which fits all playstyles (see condi chrono in pvp).

    Chronomancer flavor was always about 1. Supporting allies through time manipulation, speeding up their actions and reducing their cooldowns including resetting your own cooldowns through continuum split. Heck there's even a trait to make wells heal allies. 2. Controlling enemies through stuns, and especially the Slow condition. 3. Having a wealth of defensive options like the Shield skill as well as Well of Precognition.

    Condi Chronomancer in Heart of Thorns was a fallback option that happened when support bunker chronomancer ended up being so overpowered Arenanet smiter's booned that aspect of the spec as well as any build to ever reach that build's level of survivability and sustain ever again by nuking defensive amulets in PvP.

    Power DPS Chronomancer was an accident that happened because of a poorly thought out attempt to keep Chronophantasma's flavor after the Phantasm update despite how fundamentally unbalancable it is. Pre-February 2018 Power PvE Chrono was never a thing.

    You are also wrong about Mirage being "the dps spec". If anything it is the condition spec. So if anything, power suits chrono/core more.

    I'm sorry I didn't realize damaging conditions didn't do damage.

    I sometimes/often agree with your posts but this is just so incredibly wrong.
    The fact that there is one(!) trait that makes wells heal allies has no relevance to the theme of the specialization whatsoever. So let's go through the traits:

    The shield is there because it fills a niche that was lacking in the Mesmer arsenal, in no way is Chronomancer designed around it (there isn't even a trait for it).
    Minors: continuum split (every playstyle), alacrity on shatter (every playstyle esp. clone heavy shatter builds with DE for example), movement speed (every playstyle).
    Adept: one trait for interrupt/cc builds (power), one trait for shatter builds, one trait for support builds.
    Master: one trait for interrupt/cc builds (power), one trait for shatter builds, one trait for support builds (arguably).
    Grandmaster: one trait for interrupt/cc builds (power), one trait for shatter builds, one trait for phantasm builds (arguably).
    Do you see a pattern?

    I mean, I am 100% certain I won't convince you because that is impossible in internet arguments even if I would have a figurative mountain of evidence.

    // Yanim

  • Odik.4587Odik.4587 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2, 2019

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    His assumption chronomancer is about being completely support spec are coming from wells ?
    Tempest is 1 of meta builds (in fractals at least). Who say its BAD?

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Odik.4587 said:

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    His assumption chronomancer is about being completely support spec are coming from wells ?
    Tempest is 1 of meta builds (in fractals at least). Who say its BAD?

    Tempest is not meta in fractals anymore due to lose of boons from chaos chrono

    make prepardness baseline plz

  • Odik.4587Odik.4587 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    His assumption chronomancer is about being completely support spec are coming from wells ?
    Tempest is 1 of meta builds (in fractals at least). Who say its BAD?

    Tempest is not meta in fractals anymore due to lose of boons from chaos chrono

    https://discretize.eu/builds
    Im keep getting old thing... ? They had new with updated builds but cant find it anymore lol...

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Odik.4587 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    His assumption chronomancer is about being completely support spec are coming from wells ?
    Tempest is 1 of meta builds (in fractals at least). Who say its BAD?

    Tempest is not meta in fractals anymore due to lose of boons from chaos chrono

    https://discretize.eu/builds
    Im keep getting old thing... ? They had new with updated builds but cant find it anymore lol...

    It's in "gr8" now. Still good, but can't be compared to dh, sb, weaver anymore. And chrono can't be as well after nerfs.

    make prepardness baseline plz

  • Odik.4587Odik.4587 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    His assumption chronomancer is about being completely support spec are coming from wells ?
    Tempest is 1 of meta builds (in fractals at least). Who say its BAD?

    Tempest is not meta in fractals anymore due to lose of boons from chaos chrono

    https://discretize.eu/builds
    Im keep getting old thing... ? They had new with updated builds but cant find it anymore lol...

    It's in "gr8" now. Still good, but can't be compared to dh, sb, weaver anymore. And chrono can't be as well after nerfs.

    Found it finally . I was playing with good static for a while and ele swapped to tempest at some fractals while CHRONO is still marked as 'great' even without nerf and share same spot with tempest :joy:

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Odik.4587 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    His assumption chronomancer is about being completely support spec are coming from wells ?
    Tempest is 1 of meta builds (in fractals at least). Who say its BAD?

    Tempest is not meta in fractals anymore due to lose of boons from chaos chrono

    https://discretize.eu/builds
    Im keep getting old thing... ? They had new with updated builds but cant find it anymore lol...

    It's in "gr8" now. Still good, but can't be compared to dh, sb, weaver anymore. And chrono can't be as well after nerfs.

    Found it finally . I was playing with good static for a while and ele swapped to tempest at some fractals while CHRONO is still marked as 'great' even without nerf and share same spot with tempest :joy:

    Chrono shines at few bosses, but the main problem is its CD on cs. For example on Arti cm, with good dps and fast cc breaking, u won't get ur cs for next phase. But this nerf is rly not needed imo

    make prepardness baseline plz

  • Solis.4915Solis.4915 Member ✭✭

    Power Chrono was amazing in the short time i got to use it. R.I.P

  • RabbitUp.8294RabbitUp.8294 Member ✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    I never liked Chrono DPS. Chronomancer is the support build that buffs allies with quickness and alacrity as well as having tons of defensive options. Mirage is the DPS spec. Elite specializations need to be balanced around unique niches for them to be in a healthy state. This is like if Druids were suddenly the best ranger DPS build. It's not healthy for the game's balance if Druid does both it's role and Soubleast's role better than Soulbeast did.

    pChrono is power dps, Mirage is condi dps, they can coexist just fine. And it's not like mirage is struggling, it's the meta pick for several raid bosses.

    And you realise this us not limited to mesmer, right? Firebrand can be both support and condi dps, same for Renegade. In general, all classes should have capable builds for both power and condi, Mirage alone is not enough.

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @RabbitUp.8294 said:
    The initial class burp was all focused on support chrono and mirage, and then you have this here sneaky little change:

    "• Signet of the Ether: This skill's recharge time now begins at the same time as phantasm skills are recharged."

    Why? Why completely kill dps chrono without any compensatory buff? Even a nerf to Danger Time without at least reworking it so that it becomes a lot more realistic to take in pve scenarios, since slow uptime is quite limited.

    The dps numbers were perfectly in-line with the rest of the meta, the rotation was fun and engaging, and we are not going to get a new expansion for quite a while, so it's not like mesmer was going to get a power spec any time soon. So of course the most logical thing to do was kill power chrono. To say that I'm extremely disappointed is putting it lightly.

    I never liked Chrono DPS. Chronomancer is the support build that buffs allies with quickness and alacrity as well as having tons of defensive options. Mirage is the DPS spec. Elite specializations need to be balanced around unique niches for them to be in a healthy state. This is like if Druids were suddenly the best ranger DPS build. It's not healthy for the game's balance if Druid does both it's role and Soubleast's role better than Soulbeast did.

    Yea it's definitely not healthy if support build would make high dps, but what's ur problem with chrono in zerk dealing meta dps? I don't think chronophantasma was meant to be support trait. It s good for game if 1 spec can do multiple roles

    Chronophantasma was originally built in a way that was only good on support because for PvE Power mesmer before Path of Fire you never wanted to shatter your phantasms. You let them ramp up with Phantasmal Force and leave them be. Where as support frequently did shatter for things like Continuum Split, Distortion, and Distraction.

    Chronophantasma effectively doubling the damage of phantasms was a poorly thought out attempt to try and keep the flavor of old chronophantasma and never really made sense. A lot of things about the phantasm update weren't particularly well thought out.

    OK but still what's ur problem with specs having more than 1 role. It would be bad for build diversity

    What's going to be bad for diversity is if the next mesmer elite spec is a dedicated high DPS less bursty power spec and has absolutely no place in the game because if you want Power DPS Chronomancer will be better.

    We won't have an expansion for at least 2 years, this is a bad argument. If the next spec is a proper power spec, then chrono can be support only, but until that happens there's no reason to go 2 years without having a viable power build for mesmer.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @RabbitUp.8294 said:
    The initial class burp was all focused on support chrono and mirage, and then you have this here sneaky little change:

    "• Signet of the Ether: This skill's recharge time now begins at the same time as phantasm skills are recharged."

    Why? Why completely kill dps chrono without any compensatory buff? Even a nerf to Danger Time without at least reworking it so that it becomes a lot more realistic to take in pve scenarios, since slow uptime is quite limited.

    The dps numbers were perfectly in-line with the rest of the meta, the rotation was fun and engaging, and we are not going to get a new expansion for quite a while, so it's not like mesmer was going to get a power spec any time soon. So of course the most logical thing to do was kill power chrono. To say that I'm extremely disappointed is putting it lightly.

    I never liked Chrono DPS. Chronomancer is the support build that buffs allies with quickness and alacrity as well as having tons of defensive options. Mirage is the DPS spec. Elite specializations need to be balanced around unique niches for them to be in a healthy state. This is like if Druids were suddenly the best ranger DPS build. It's not healthy for the game's balance if Druid does both it's role and Soubleast's role better than Soulbeast did.

    Yea it's definitely not healthy if support build would make high dps, but what's ur problem with chrono in zerk dealing meta dps? I don't think chronophantasma was meant to be support trait. It s good for game if 1 spec can do multiple roles

    Chronophantasma was originally built in a way that was only good on support because for PvE Power mesmer before Path of Fire you never wanted to shatter your phantasms. You let them ramp up with Phantasmal Force and leave them be. Where as support frequently did shatter for things like Continuum Split, Distortion, and Distraction.

    Chronophantasma effectively doubling the damage of phantasms was a poorly thought out attempt to try and keep the flavor of old chronophantasma and never really made sense. A lot of things about the phantasm update weren't particularly well thought out.

    This is absolutely wrong design philosophy. Originally, core provided of all three facets; power, condi and support. Elites were supposed to add different play style, not a different functionality. If you do different functionality then you are admitting that Elites are nothing more than a gimmick where Anet recycled then power creepred existing content. Is that the case?

    Also, it is not uncommon (at least in PvE. PvP builds are kitten mess) that one elite provides more than one build. Example, FB and renegade. Should we nerf these too?! Chrono is not the only elite that have (or had now) damage and support PvE builds.

  • Levetty.1279Levetty.1279 Member ✭✭✭

    mortrialus has been complaining about Mesmer having a DPS build ever since they got one. He normally does it under the guise of 'PvP balance' but can't quite articulate why they can't do skill splits if that's the case. Glad to see he is finally admitting he just hates Mesmer.

  • flog.3485flog.3485 Member ✭✭✭

    Just wondering, after reading most of the comments, can't you play a full DPS core mesmer ?

  • tim.4596tim.4596 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 6, 2019

    @RabbitUp.8294 said:
    The initial class burp was all focused on support chrono and mirage, and then you have this here sneaky little change:

    "• Signet of the Ether: This skill's recharge time now begins at the same time as phantasm skills are recharged."

    Why? Why completely kill dps chrono without any compensatory buff? Even a nerf to Danger Time without at least reworking it so that it becomes a lot more realistic to take in pve scenarios, since slow uptime is quite limited.

    The dps numbers were perfectly in-line with the rest of the meta, the rotation was fun and engaging, and we are not going to get a new expansion for quite a while, so it's not like mesmer was going to get a power spec any time soon. So of course the most logical thing to do was kill power chrono. To say that I'm extremely disappointed is putting it lightly.

    While I appreciate the fact that Anet is trying to make other support class viable, I would rather that they buff other class and stop hard nerfing Chrono. Invulnerability on distortion got removed, CC got completely destroyed, and now we can't DPS. At this point, I am only curious. What's next ?

    I'd like to suggest that removing quickness or alacrity might be the way to go to completely kill the class. Just in case Anet was wondering what to nerf next.

  • Unknown.3976Unknown.3976 Member ✭✭✭

    @flog.3485 said:
    Just wondering, after reading most of the comments, can't you play a full DPS core mesmer ?

    Core mes has no access to Chronophantasma.

  • flog.3485flog.3485 Member ✭✭✭

    @Unknown.3976 said:

    @flog.3485 said:
    Just wondering, after reading most of the comments, can't you play a full DPS core mesmer ?

    Core mes has no access to Chronophantasma.

    Is it really a problem though with low cooldown on sword off-hand and double disenchanter with mimic ?

  • RabbitUp.8294RabbitUp.8294 Member ✭✭✭

    @flog.3485 said:

    @Unknown.3976 said:

    @flog.3485 said:
    Just wondering, after reading most of the comments, can't you play a full DPS core mesmer ?

    Core mes has no access to Chronophantasma.

    Is it really a problem though with low cooldown on sword off-hand and double disenchanter with mimic ?

    But chrono has access to the same exact stuff, on top of Continuum Split and Chronophantasma. Continuum Split was effectively 2 Signets of the Ether and 1 Gravity Well pre-nerf, now it's one Signet less, and Chronophantasma doubles the effectiveness on all your phantasm skills.

    That been said, base mesmer if I recall correctly benchmarked about 5k lower than chrono before this patch, now the difference should be a lot smaller since the nerf only affects chrono.

  • Noodle Ant.1605Noodle Ant.1605 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 6, 2019

    @flog.3485 said:
    Is it really a problem though with low cooldown on sword off-hand and double disenchanter with mimic ?

    I think there’s a significant difference between being able to summon up to 28 phantasms (split combo + chronophantasma) compared to 8 as part as your burst, which is probably one of the biggest reasons you’d play power dps. Although full dps core mes has probably the most actual dmg modifiers, the fact that phantasms have such low cd (as you have stated) means that CP will usually win because it gets to be used so much, at least for PvE.

    @RabbitUp.8294 said:
    now it's one Signet less

    It’s not one signet less, it’s just way more complex to pull of since it requires more clones and coordination now since all components must be off CD at the same time.

    pChrono (main), cWeaver and pReaper. An asura who likes snowflakes.

  • Xyonon.3987Xyonon.3987 Member ✭✭✭

    Dw, dps Chrono is still fine, just no longer broken. Everyone lost ~2k dps due to Banner nerfs, Chrono recieved a rather small nerf besides that - Signet of the Ether's impact was just overestimated. The current dps is still around 42k opener and 35k final number (raid realistic buffs on golem). It's absolutely fine and dandy.

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭

    @Xyonon.3987 said:
    Dw, dps Chrono is still fine, just no longer broken. Everyone lost ~2k dps due to Banner nerfs, Chrono recieved a rather small nerf besides that - Signet of the Ether's impact was just overestimated. The current dps is still around 42k opener and 35k final number (raid realistic buffs on golem). It's absolutely fine and dandy.

    Which makes this change to Danger Time even worse since it impacts WvW and PvP more than the indented target...

    // Yanim

  • zencow.3651zencow.3651 Member ✭✭✭

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @Xyonon.3987 said:
    Dw, dps Chrono is still fine, just no longer broken. Everyone lost ~2k dps due to Banner nerfs, Chrono recieved a rather small nerf besides that - Signet of the Ether's impact was just overestimated. The current dps is still around 42k opener and 35k final number (raid realistic buffs on golem). It's absolutely fine and dandy.

    Which makes this change to Danger Time even worse since it impacts WvW and PvP more than the indented target...

    Pretty sure it was aimed more at WvW/PvP where the lost time + danger time was too powerful.

  • flog.3485flog.3485 Member ✭✭✭

    @RabbitUp.8294 said:

    @flog.3485 said:

    @Unknown.3976 said:

    @flog.3485 said:
    Just wondering, after reading most of the comments, can't you play a full DPS core mesmer ?

    Core mes has no access to Chronophantasma.

    Is it really a problem though with low cooldown on sword off-hand and double disenchanter with mimic ?

    But chrono has access to the same exact stuff, on top of Continuum Split and Chronophantasma. Continuum Split was effectively 2 Signets of the Ether and 1 Gravity Well pre-nerf, now it's one Signet less, and Chronophantasma doubles the effectiveness on all your phantasm skills.

    That been said, base mesmer if I recall correctly benchmarked about 5k lower than chrono before this patch, now the difference should be a lot smaller since the nerf only affects chrono.

    I see. Thx for the input

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