Which Elder Dragon and forces were most well presented so far? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Which Elder Dragon and forces were most well presented so far?

Slowpokeking.8720Slowpokeking.8720 Member ✭✭✭

Zhaitan has amazing story against his Risen. The Risen has a very strict structure with many champions and cunning tactics. The whole war was epic but the dragon itself's fight was terribly done.

Mordremoth had some interesting twist and a fine battle if we put the bugs aside.

Kralkatorrik itself had a lot of screentime but his minions were very poorly done compare to Zhaitan and Mordremoth.

Primordus' destroyers were hive mind army as it was shown in GW1.

Jormag was interesting, we saw a lot of his manipulative personality in the novels but the dragon itself and Drakkar hasn't shown up yet. He also has a cult following him.

Comments

  • Slowpokeking.8720Slowpokeking.8720 Member ✭✭✭

    Also the battle against the Risen Navy leading by Indomitable in Seas of Sorrows was the most epic fight against the dragons among the 3 novels, other than that the fight against Jormag's Dragonspawn was cool as well.

  • Aaron Ansari.1604Aaron Ansari.1604 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Hm... I would say Mordremoth. Every other dragon has the issue of sitting with a thumb up their tail for long years at a time, which may be a handy handwave for how civilization is still intact but does a lot to compromise their menace. Mordremoth was a dynamic and pressing threat for his whole run, and the one to hand us the worst defeat we've had so far, even if the final resolution was badly kludged.

    R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.

  • Slowpokeking.8720Slowpokeking.8720 Member ✭✭✭

    @Aaron Ansari.1604 said:
    Hm... I would say Mordremoth. Every other dragon has the issue of sitting with a thumb up their tail for long years at a time, which may be a handy handwave for how civilization is still intact but does a lot to compromise their menace. Mordremoth was a dynamic and pressing threat for his whole run, and the one to hand us the worst defeat we've had so far, even if the final resolution was badly kludged.

    Zhaitan and Kralkatorrik at least got a reason, Kralkatorrik was almost killed after awakened and Zhaitan did keep press attack after its awakening, just ppl were enough to drive his navy back.

  • Aaron Ansari.1604Aaron Ansari.1604 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Slowpokeking.8720 said:

    @Aaron Ansari.1604 said:
    Hm... I would say Mordremoth. Every other dragon has the issue of sitting with a thumb up their tail for long years at a time, which may be a handy handwave for how civilization is still intact but does a lot to compromise their menace. Mordremoth was a dynamic and pressing threat for his whole run, and the one to hand us the worst defeat we've had so far, even if the final resolution was badly kludged.

    Zhaitan and Kralkatorrik at least got a reason, Kralkatorrik was almost killed after awakened and Zhaitan did keep press attack after its awakening, just ppl were enough to drive his navy back.

    Even there, though, the reasons seem flimsy. Kralkatorrik's near-death was more like a semi running the light a foot ahead of you- a very unpleasant shock, but no lasting injury. It makes for a good explanation of why he left Destiny's Edge alive, and it could even justify a few months spent entrenching himself, but it's really not sufficient to explain how he was a close neighbor to Amnoon for eight years without causing it, or even its outposts, any damage.

    With Zhaitan, on the other hand, we're talking a naval battle every couple of years, and no major land battles. It's true that Lion's Arch claimed a few naval victories, but apparently not enough to permanently impact his capacity. The Movement of the World and Edge of Destiny both paint Zhaitan as retaining the largest naval force on the continent, it's just that he had them on permanent defensive stations, even though he didn't face any credible attacks until the Pact came along. And all the while, his land forces were... hanging out in swamps. Over the course of a century, they just about managed to take out the majority of hylek villages in a single region. There, too, he kept all of his true heavy hitters in Orr.

    The major issue, though, is the dragons. As Scarlet ably proved, Lion's Arch had no credible defenses against air assault. Two or three dragons would probably suffice to level the old city, and Zhaitan had dozens... but the PS says he never sent any north until Claw Island, and that was just one.

    R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.

  • ChronoPinoyX.7923ChronoPinoyX.7923 Member ✭✭✭

    I'm basing these off their personality mostly

    So far, I still think Zhaitan's overall presentation in terms of as a character is still the best one. Zhaitan was an Elder Dragon that knew how to manipulate its enemies by working the villain trope of taking the protagonist's friends and loved ones to hurt them to the point of submission. The Risen really played this against us especially when it came to certain characters like Tybalt. And this was all Zhaitan's doing. I know Zhaitan never spoke directly to us but to speak to Zhaitan's specialised champions (so Eyes of Zhaitan for example) is to speak directly to the Elder Dragon itself. The parley moment by the fountain was even a great presentation that Zhaitan can be talked with but as per the narrative direction of most villains, the gentlemanly act is only done to manipulate the protagonist into a false sense of security. In terms of actual gameplay, there's no doubt Zhaitan is the weakest. Zhaitan's areas were the first parts of GW2 and most of the development for better gameplay happened after that so Zhaitan got the short end of the stick on that. If they had continued their plan to expand Zhaitan's fights after the Airship battle, that would have sealed the deal for me as Zhaitan being the current best presented Elder in terms of gameplay and story.

    Kralkatorrik comes second. I think Kralkatorrik's relations to major characters are the strongest presentation regarding this Elder but the actual presentation of Kralkatorrik itself is minimal until War Eternal since we don't really have a lot to go with on what he was doing and why he was doing it until War Eternal. One could argue that Kralk's story is best presented because of how each characters that come in Path of Fire interlink with him but I think most of the character development was for Aurene and the other characters, not Kralkatorrik. Kralk's character development was small in comparison to Zhaitan because Zhaitan was our direct focus during the Personal Storyline whereas in PoF, our focus shifts between Balthazar, then Joko then Kralk, meaning Kralk had lesser character development compared to Zhaitan. The biggest thing about Kralk was killing Aurene and most of that impact was more to do with Aurene than it is with Kralk (since the development was all Aurene). In terms of actual gameplay though, Kralk is hands down the best. Aerial fight during the beginning, can't really beat that. Could have used some tweaking cuz it felt clunky at times but it's a new gameplay style. The Maps during LWS4 were some of the best, and their metas weren't overly difficult nor easy. Kralkatorrik is mechanically, the best Elder Dragon so far just because of the gameplay potentials ANet showed they can do.

    Mordremoth is last and the reason being Mordremoth had literally no character development. Mordremoth's whole character development can be described in one word: Narcissism. Everything about Mordremoth just screamed narcissist. There was literally no progression whatsoever to his personality. He was simply there because "I AM DA JUNGLE DRAGON". Everything Mordremoth did felt lackluster compared to the other 2 Elders. The Mordrem were just there because Modremoth needed minions apparently despite the fact that he's meant to be "the jungle itself". In terms of gameplay, Mordremoth comes second. The maps were ok, it's expected to be a like a puzzle because that's what a jungle is for the most part but in terms of the presentation of Man vs. Nature, didn't really feel like nature was doing anything substantial outside of sending minions. Kralk's maps showed us Kralk actually attacking us by launching Brand storms periodically whereas Mordremoth's maps consisted of mostly kill this mob. Dragon Stand is also hardly ever done because it's stuck under a timer and has a set reset time so if you started with 15 mins left till reset, you have 15 mins to do a whole meta event.

  • The Greyhawk.9107The Greyhawk.9107 Member ✭✭✭

    @ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:
    I'm basing these off their personality mostly

    ....Dragon Stand is also hardly ever done because it's stuck under a timer and has a set reset time so if you started with 15 mins left till reset, you have 15 mins to do a whole meta event.

    I know this is an aside, but actually full DS maps are actually pretty common, though I do suppose it depends on when you're on. I also used to think no one did DS, but if you pay attention to the LFG its pretty easy to get in an organized map.

    And since I'm anyways, overall I'd judge it like this: Mordy Meta Battle First, Kralk Instanced Areial Battle Second, Kralk Torment Battle Third, Zhaitan Dungeon Battle Fourth, Kralk Meta Battle Fifth, and Mordy Instanced Battle Sixth. As for anything outside those final battle, minions and dragon personalities, etc...I dunno, its all kinda the same to me, 'cept branded don't have over-used battle and death lines.

    Hate Is Fuel.

  • ChronoPinoyX.7923ChronoPinoyX.7923 Member ✭✭✭

    @The Greyhawk.9107 said:

    @ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:
    I'm basing these off their personality mostly

    ....Dragon Stand is also hardly ever done because it's stuck under a timer and has a set reset time so if you started with 15 mins left till reset, you have 15 mins to do a whole meta event.

    I know this is an aside, but actually full DS maps are actually pretty common, though I do suppose it depends on when you're on. I also used to think no one did DS, but if you pay attention to the LFG its pretty easy to get in an organized map.

    EU region seems very quiet when it comes to DS. I'm always checkin LFG on different times, it's usually empty. And that includes weekends. Might just be happening at really odd times but the usual times I expect people to be on it's mostly empty and other map metas are filled.

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 27, 2019

    I thought they hurt Kralk pretty badly with the “tormented” ending. It didn’t need it at all. Being an entity of rage and malice works fine - the depth of story should have revolved around DE and Glints Legacy (although the latter was a naff narrative anyway). Sometimes a monster can just be a monster. Kralk was at his finest in PoF and had some decent moment mid ls4 and Dragonfall. The aerial fight, the last instance count as awful implementation to me

    Jormag is potentially very interesting, esp given he has voluntary followers. With the Norn regaining their land and the story around the Tooth (sadly now utterly wasted), we had a great prologue to build from

    Zhaitan had all the right ideas just not presented strongly. I think it came down to being rushed and not really knowing where they wanted to go. The idea though was sound.

    Mordy should have been the best given we had to deal with the rise of a Dragon and S2 was an excellent set up. HoT made a complete farce of the story choosing not to fully explore all the lore and set up. The DReam, The Nightmare, the affect of the Sylvari turning on the wider world, Malyk - all thrown under a bus. Inexcusable - it came down to poor planning and poor management. I don't really blame the writers here. Whilst I have huge issues with their ability to write a story arc, it dosn't help when they aren't given sufficient time and resources to tell a story. GW2 existed to help tell a better story without the restrictions GW1 had. So far, it has almost been a catastrophic failure and Mordremoth central story is a classic example of that

    Primordus has been fine so far. Keeping to the background whilst still being a massive threat.

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • The Greyhawk.9107The Greyhawk.9107 Member ✭✭✭

    @ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

    @The Greyhawk.9107 said:

    @ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:
    I'm basing these off their personality mostly

    ....Dragon Stand is also hardly ever done because it's stuck under a timer and has a set reset time so if you started with 15 mins left till reset, you have 15 mins to do a whole meta event.

    I know this is an aside, but actually full DS maps are actually pretty common, though I do suppose it depends on when you're on. I also used to think no one did DS, but if you pay attention to the LFG its pretty easy to get in an organized map.

    EU region seems very quiet when it comes to DS. I'm always checkin LFG on different times, it's usually empty. And that includes weekends. Might just be happening at really odd times but the usual times I expect people to be on it's mostly empty and other map metas are filled.

    Ah, I'm in NA so that might explain it.

    Hate Is Fuel.

  • Ultramex.1506Ultramex.1506 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 28, 2019

    EH....i can't really tell:
    Mordremoth is so.......cartoony and not the good type, i can hardly take him seriously i'm ok with villain being evil because they are evil not because they have tragic past(overused trope) but he barely does anything that memorable beside killing Eir (which got no reaction from me).
    Zhaitan at least killed our mentor then use our fear against us but he got the worst boss fight ever, spent all that time hyping him up for his grand entrance and Anet decided to make us fight him by spamming 1111111.
    Kralkatorrik affected Tyira just by flying other than that we mostly fight his minions with no personality what-so-ever
    That seem to be my problem with Elder Dragon overall, we fought so much of their minion with ease that i forgot about the Big Man himself.
    3 down 3 more to go, let see how will they handle other 3 this time.
    BONUS ROUND: remember Zaishen Zealot?

  • Eekasqueak.7850Eekasqueak.7850 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 28, 2019

    I actually think Kralkatorric has had the best ED story overall so far, the torment angle is cool and the horrors of branding are pretty well explored like how we fought that branded Djinn who was able to communicate the torment he was in. Mordy's minions... honestly they had the personality of Saturday morning cartoon villain henchmen and so did Zhaitan's...

  • brenda.9723brenda.9723 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 14, 2019

    from best to worst:
    1: kralky (i liked the fact that they went for a different route then the standard "You cannot defeat me, you are just a mere mortal")
    2: zhaitan (the fight itself is not the best, but the storytelling before is pretty nice)
    3: Steve the deep sea dragon (nice and mysterious)
    4: That one time use of Primey was hilarious (My boyfriend said : "he, is that primordus?" I turned the camera around and it scared me to death XD). Apart from that Primey is pretty boring to me.
    5: jormag (i dont care so much for jormag)
    6: mordy (i dont like it bc the start of his boss fight is random "lets attack the dragon of mind in his mind". Which sounds like the most stupid idea ever + there were too many sylvari lore parts missing)

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