Community Class Counter Guide

Rules: If you feel you understand a class/profession's 'new' elite enough, post a short guide on how to counter them in wvsw situations. You can leave it open ended, so just part of the story if you only know part of the story.

Ex)

Scourge: Kite them from range. Understand they have limited mobility, they have no invulnerabilities really so they rely on pure hp to survive, and most damage comes from short casting giant aoe. Dodging and proper distance. Definitely the open ended part of the story example....

Spellbreaker: Same as normal warrior really. You proc their invulnerabilities (1-2x endure pain (4-5s each), berserker stance (10s or so)), then you kite from range till they are done, then you deal damage till they fall or the next invul procs. In terms of their ultimate.....just don't fight inside it, if used in a zerg situation just be aware that the thing infront of the zerg is where its gonna be casted. Also be aware that unblockable projectiles can pierce through their ultimate.Other than that....just a normal warrior with vanilla f1's instead of the longer range f2's of berserker. If they have a rifle you only have to watch for killshot, very easy to see and dodge. If they use bow...they are gonna be condi based in their damage so you are safe from all ranged damage so long as you have resistance (dont have to worry about long ranged boonstrips). Kiting them is easy if you kno the limits of their 2 ranged weapons. Full counter, their new f2, is just a 1/2 second evade really that blocks 1 attack and then procs the evade. They are tankier vanilla warriors really...thats it. Be aware that almost all of them have an endure pain that procs when their hp hits under 50%...so time ur attack to either burst the 50% hp or just to proc the endure pain and breakoff. And that some take rousing resilience or cleansing ire, or rather most. Most will use defense line, spellbreaker line.....and third line more up in the air but mainly im guessing discipline for fasthands (5second weaponswap). Look over what those things do and ur fine usually. For utilities Most take: endure pain, berserker stance....then one open slot that is likely a stunbreak/stability, chance it could be something more specialized like bull rush tho, so try to figure out what they take while you are kiting them.

Range the scourge is a really good advice. Feels like they loose half of their dmg if you are not in melee range.

Avoid hitting the spellbreaker works for some classes in 1v1 situations. But there are clones, pets, aoes that make it really easy for the warrior to proc it. In anything other than a duel it is almost guarantee to proc.

I play mirage with a build with a lot of condition cleasing and mobility ( illusions ,inspirations, mirage) with signet of illusion , blink , sword and jaunt for mobility.Killing a scourge is hard but in 1 vs 1 i can do it : i kyte him for all the time avoiding aoe marks. WHen he comes on me with his aoe centric condition skill i use jaunt or blink or staff 2 to reposition my self and i run away from him attaccking it with staff in circle. Only when his health is down i use sword to take it down. If you don't do mistakes it is possible to kill it but it is really really long. It is a great problem on spvp becouse for all that time the point is capped by scourge and u kill it in 2 or 3 minutes ... it is a nonsense in a spvp match , but for wvw it is not a real problem in 1 vs 1. Arcane thiever, if used properly and with luck can helps .Spellbreakers in wvw are hard to kill for the combination of their survivability with food . The "way" to kill them is the same with scourge : kyte them .for all the time. I usually try to melee them only if i have distortion available and sword 2 ,especially when they pop up resistence or bonus sword autoattack can help for the boon removal.The kill mechanic is always the same .. kyte, bunker them and slowly take down their vitalityThief with rifle : boring to kill .. you have to avoid their burst ( stealth ,teleport .. ). When you see them you have to teleport on them as fast as you can , block them and condi burst them , usually i prefer to fight them staying is word . Ambush evasion helps quite a lot to kill them but they can be dangerouse if you don't see them

Basicly.... RIP melee combat, play a range class or aoe caster or GTFO that is what it feels...

@Aeolus.3615 said:Basicly.... RIP melee combat, play a range class or aoe caster or GTFO that is what it feels...

It is not true, it depends on what are u playing and the matchup. I usually play mesmer and, except for scourge, i play switching between range and melee. I think that , at least for roaming/ dueling playing all melee or all range for many classes does not work . For scourge you can only kyte and avoid aoe damage, going melee for me it is a suicide but for example for other classes like all warrior specs or dh i try to kyte and avoid their burst and then melee ..(obsviously i don't jump in traps to melee , the gamestyle depends on classes, weapons and so on )

Good initiative, here's a few more, feel free to add/fix to these:

-> Firebrand - Dodge back their initial burst, most FB will open with Judge's Intervention (teleport) then try to keep you in melee range while dishing out burns with Tome of Justice so the key is to deny them that opening combo that will catch most players by surprise with the amount of burn stacks they can put out in a short timer. Fight back with CC and range if possible while their teleports are down, if you're melee only, block/dodge/cleanse/resistance Tome of Justice until it runs out of pages and then retaliate. Don't allow them to spend too much time on their other tomes as they can sustain and clean conditions at a very fast rate.

- Best counter against Firebrand: -> CC and Power burst damage

-> Power Soulbeast - Most of them have a Longbow and a melee weapon (GS or Sword/Warhorn), the main problem lies in their Unblockable attacks they gain from merging with their pet and from Warhorn #5, so dodging and evading are the best counter for their burst. They are equally dangerous in melee and range, however fighting them melee is still the best option since they lack stability outside of their survival elite if they have it slotted so closing the gap and CC is a good counter. Condi bursts are also an effective counter.

- Best counter against Power Soulbeast: -> Condition burst and CC

-> Condi Mirage - A difficult match-up if you don't have moderate condition cleansing or you're not a Spellbreaker. The key to this fight is to avoid their melee condi bursts which happen in a small window and can leave you in a very bad spot. The best way to fight them is by dodging/evading the melee condition bursts and fight back with melee/range power burst damage since they are very slippery thanks to their dodging/invulns/stealth. They can be very hard to CC because of their break stun on dodge trait and great mobility from Mirage utilities & elite.

- Best counter against Condi Mirage: -> Range/melee burst

@Lahm.7056 said:Good initiative, here's a few more, feel free to add/fix to these:

-> Firebrand - Dodge back their initial burst, most FB will open with Judge's Intervention (teleport) then try to keep you in melee range while dishing out burns with Tome of Justice so the key is to deny them that opening combo that will catch most players by surprise with the amount of burn stacks they can put out in a short timer. Fight back with CC and range if possible while their teleports are down, if you're melee only, block/dodge/cleanse/resistance Tome of Justice until it runs out of pages and then retaliate. Don't allow them to spend too much time on their other tomes as they can sustain and clean conditions at a very fast rate.

- Best counter against Firebrand: -> CC and Power burst damageI can add to this a bit:http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQFA3EFCxyhA/Qkg4A7hTD-j1AXgAPKBB2fU+1r+TAAEAn38m38m380mZzs5NvZSBMwyI-wYou can kinda see here on the first page the kinda utilities to watchout for in the combo. Also that axe 3 ability worth noting.Its the same combo dragonhunter who went condi would use. Most use sword MH as part of their gearset, so check out their sword 2 teleport as well (likely to engage with sword drawn, then swap)

Other specific things to mention:I'll add Bane signet and renewed focus. Always look to see if they have bane signet equipped (flame icon on a yellow signet). 1200 range 3 second knockdown.....that can destroy you if you lack stunbreaks/stability. They'll use it with their opening strike generally, before or after they port to you. Also renewed focus, their 3 second invulnerability, is something you need to care for cause they often cast their jump burst then proc this thing and run towards you making it impossible to proc any skills against them. Any attacks they cast before using it will stilll damage you.....especially deadly with the burn aoe's, and its pretty safe to say they ALL run condi gear with burn duration increases. So if you use unblockables or evade skills that rely on a proc....you really gotta watchout for when they use renewed focus, since it could waste all your counters.

Even as a gunflame bunker killer, where my build is specifically strong against guardians and block spammers, guardians can completely counter depending on how they use their skillset. They have the tools to counter their counters.....its just a case of how they react to your skills and how you react to theirs that determines what happens. ONce in a bluemoon i'll meet a guardian who just floors me cause they actually know both what I'm doing and what they are doing...and their build has more utility than mine does even though mine still should counter theirs. Guardians/dh/fb are very well rounded and powerful if used competently. You can think of firebrand as just a dragonhunter who runs condi gear, since were only talking about wvsws.

Ranger/Druid/Soulbeast: Any form of CC spam. Doesnt matter what build they run. Doesnt matter what specialization they run. Whole class sucks against CC spam

S/d thief can kite and keep up the Presure on a spell breaker but you need to react to stow weapon vs full counter, can bit a bit hard vs scourge though with limited condi cleanse and since both shortbow and infiltrations strike are 900/600 range so they can condi bomb you if you don't pay attention, also the barrier forces you to kite a lot more then reaper. Not really tried deadeye but I heard you can pretty much afk and win.

Can this be moved to the spvp section? Or the 1v1 section.
This is the wvw section, not the solo roaming and how to counter solo builds section.
I appreciate some people might want to discuss how to counter 1v1, which is more appropriate to the spvp section.The real issues in wvw aren't 1v1, it's when you get e pile of players in one area that the real issue with Point Of Failure skills and elites becomes obvious.

Or this is how to counter 1v1 enemy roamers trying to take your camps...

Not everyone likes to mindlessly pressing buttons in a zerg on zerg fest

@PierPiero.9142 said:

@Aeolus.3615 said:Basicly.... RIP melee combat, play a range class or aoe caster or GTFO that is what it feels...

Well scourge is just one specialization, but half of the game is running it now. It is a problem for people running melee.

@Baldrick.8967 said:Can this be moved to the spvp section? Or the 1v1 section.

This is the wvw section, not the solo roaming and how to counter solo builds section.

I appreciate some people might want to discuss how to counter 1v1, which is more appropriate to the spvp section.The real issues in wvw aren't 1v1, it's when you get e pile of players in one area that the real issue with Point Of Failure skills and elites becomes obvious.

Lol, not everyone plays wvw nestled in the warm embrace of a blob mindlessly spamming skills and soaking up free heals and clears.

Besides a thread like this can even be helpful for zerglings desperately trying to make it back to the mothership but who are impeded by a single roamer.

There's more to wvw than just 1 on 1 or zerg on zerg.

I play small group roaming of 4-5 player size. Just yesterday, my group took on an equivalent sized group. We wiped the first time from a scourge condi.

The second time - we identified and focussed down the scourge first and down the rest easily after. This group then came back with 3 scourges instead and this was UNCOUNTERABLE.

We can down 1 or maybe 2 of the scourges but not all 3 before the group wiped us. Is there a solution? Yes - have my team switch to more scourges but that would be distasteful.

The fun part of small group wvw is coordinating and synergising different classes together. I have several builds of every class on my account and i switch frequently to balance out my team.

With the introduction of scourge - it seems that the only consistent counter is to be the team with the more scourges. (Refering to group play, not 1 on 1. I agree 1 on 1 - any semi range class can counter scourge). This is not a healthy or fun gameplay.

Here is a simple guide:Scourge: Killed by ranged pew pewSpellbreaker: Bring a zerg or a +1 ScourgeThief - SpellbreakerRanger - SpellbreakerMesmer - SpellbreakerGuardian - SpellbreakerRev - SpellbreakerEle- SpellbreakerEngi - Spellbreaker

You get the idea.

@roamzero.9486 said:Here is a simple guide:Scourge: Killed by ranged pew pewSpellbreaker: Bring a zerg or a +1 ScourgeThief - SpellbreakerRanger - SpellbreakerMesmer - SpellbreakerGuardian - SpellbreakerRev - SpellbreakerEle- SpellbreakerEngi - Spellbreaker

You get the idea.

Sounds like you haven't figured out how to kill Spellbreakers yet. Ranger pew pew can destroy them, condi scourge can destroy them, a power chrono roaming buddy of mine hasn't lost to one yet.... Just keep range if you can't control whether an FC gets popped. I play melee warrior core and I generally tear them up, even in groups.

Scourge, CC them. They run one stability for 6 seconds and no mobility. Just stun and burst, or burst while invuln. GG

From a ranger perspective.

Deadeye is a fun class to fight against you basically need to burst it before they get you.I prefer to show them who truly is the boss at range :p

I'm slowly starting to be able to beat spell breakers and way more break evens against them. As previously mentioned you need to kite them and control your pet.

Necros are no issue at all as a ranger.

Mesmers are a mixed bag and most tend to run away. Just gotta dodge there opening burst if power or bring some anti cancer for condi.

I find holosmiths difficult because they are either trash or the best players in game with so much sustain and hit me like a truck. I have no real gameplan.

Then there's the granite ele's I have no way of dealing with boon heavy classes, no corrupts/removal so it's just a battle of sustain.

And finally to kill a ranger just pressure it until they've popped there sos and wipe up the mess.

Holosmiths do all their damage short to mid range, so keep your distance if your class/loadout allows it. I see some run rifle, but its really the same thing....their heavy hitting abilities are still all done short-midrange. I had to take stability into my build to deal with them (that 1 stack for 7 seconds on entering combat trait...not really a real stability but it works)....which is a pretty big deal for my build since I'd always taken 0 stability and 0 stunbreaks for all my zerg-roaming fights.

I haven't played them since demo, but they were kinda weak against condition spammage back then same as normal engie/scrapper...relying on clears rather than resistance.....not sure if its any different now.

And ya with beastmasters (or ranger/druid) if you don't know what signet of stone is..... that's definitely something you should lookup and learn about. Only like 1/4 the beastmasters I see actually have signet of stone on them though....guess they generally fine with opting for damage. Either that or they don't think it matters since it only negates power damage and not the prevalent condi damage of late. Defintely makes them easy to kill without it, as a power user.