Fix Flame Blast — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Fix Flame Blast

santenal.1054santenal.1054 Member ✭✭✭
edited December 15, 2019 in Engineer

Just started playing around with flamethrower since a long time ago.
My observations/complaints about FLAME BLAST.

Give it more range!
Compared to the old version the ground targeting makes this skill lose forwards travel distance ( 200-300 range) while running forwards , making this skill quite useless when chasing someone (this is because the final location is determined before the cast animation begins while previously the max distance would be determined after the initial cast animation was done)

The loss of manual detonation makes this skill clunky and slow to use.
In the past you could just double click the skill and you had near instant damage and a blast finisher. Now you have to first position your cursor correctly (takes time) and hope you have chosen the right location (the correct location is determined by the direction you are traveling in and the speed you are traveling with) The farther you are off, the longer the skill takes to detonate. Time you often just don’t have in a fight.

Give it back proper power damage !
So power oriented builds can start using this kit again.

EDIT:
4th complaint:
Now that this skill does not track the enemy anymore the "damage by rolling through the enemy " portion should just be added to the damage on explosion because making it roll through an enemy is not reasonably achievable with such a slow ground targeted projectile against moving enemies.

Comments

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 13, 2019

    yeah I miss flame thrower power damage. eliminating build diversity for "purity of purpose" is stupid.

    Te lazla otstara.

  • Skotlex.7580Skotlex.7580 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I think there was a greater number of people that approved the change to skill 2. Before it was pretty twitchy as one had to pretty much double press 2 every 5 seconds, the new version is much more relaxing. Granted, it may make targeting harder in some scenarios.

  • More than anything else, I'd like to see an increased projectile speed. It feels dreadfully slow at the moment. Like throwing Grenades without Grenadier.

    Oh, and can we have Backdraft back? 🥰

  • santenal.1054santenal.1054 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 13, 2019

    @Skotlex.7580 said:
    I think there was a greater number of people that approved the change to skill 2. Before it was pretty twitchy as one had to pretty much double press 2 every 5 seconds, the new version is much more relaxing. Granted, it may make targeting harder in some scenarios.

    Non of my complaints is against the change to ground targeting, but ground targeting needs a farther range to maintain its "chasing" capability and the removal of manual detonation was unnecessary and a step back. Look at thief shortbow #2 it has 900 range, is ground targeted and has manual detonation capability, that is how flame blast should work like imo.

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Elmo Benchwarmer.3025 said:
    More than anything else, I'd like to see an increased projectile speed. It feels dreadfully slow at the moment. Like throwing Grenades without Grenadier.

    Oh, and can we have Backdraft back? 🥰

    Yeah, mortar kit, grenade kit, and FT flame blast are all awfully slow.

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 16, 2019

    Here is the deal ...

    you should probably stop using this in PVP ... because even if they fix the things you think are broken, you're just going to complain about how you kill yourself on someone's retaliation ... and then ask for basically a whole new weapon.

    FT isn't a great PVP weapon ... and that's OK. As it works, it's just fine for PVE ... and it's actually really good if you play to it's strength. It's theme is clear and that's what Anet cares about. But someone complaining they can't chase players with #2 wouldn't likely recognize that strength anyways and have no idea what I'm talking about when I say 'theme'. If you consider the theme, you're ideas don't actually make much sense. You just want a weapon that works exactly for what you want to use it for. Not compelling reasons for change.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Vade retro satana.

  • santenal.1054santenal.1054 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 16, 2019

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    you should probably stop using this in PVP ... because even if they fix the things you think are broken, you're just going to complain about how you kill yourself on someone's retaliation ... and then ask for basically a whole new weapon.

    Attack me on what I have written, not on what you think I might write in the future.
    I played with flamethrower for a long time and never complained about retal. But I fully respect and understand the people who request that flame jet has its damage spread over a smaller amount of damage procs and that the burning condition would be spread out instead of only being applied on the last proc. It is a reasonable request.

    FT isn't a great PVP weapon ... and that's OK.

    How do you determine what is and isn't OK? Are you trying to tell me to just BE OK with how things are?

    If you consider the theme, you're ideas don't actually make much sense.

    The "theme" wouldn't change at all (it being a short to mid range flamethrower weapon), but if you mean that the mechanics I suggest dont make much sense when compared to what is possible in real life you might have a point, but if that is the goal, anet can start deleting a whole lot of skills in this fantasy game. ( If you mean something else with "theme" please elaborate, instead of being all mysterious about it while talking down on me).

    You just want a weapon that works exactly for what you want to use it for. Not compelling reasons for change.

    I want the kit to be more usefull in small scale player vs player fights so more people can start using it again and start having fun with it. That is not exactly an unimportant aspect of the game imo.

  • Ghos.1326Ghos.1326 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 16, 2019

    I agree with the 4th complaint, but I disagree with the others (besides adding a bit more power damage co-efficient to FT skill 2, to an extent). I think the whole rolling through foes thing is outdated considering how the FT skill 2 functions now.
    Though I don't quite understand the whole theme launching fireballs out of a flamethrower in general. A bit goofy to me.
    I still use flamethrower in pvp, and I run it as power. The power variant focuses more on dealing damage with its autos, using burning as a source of augmentation to its damage, whereas the condition variant focuses on using burning as its main damage source.

    The greatest enemy to improvement, is ignorance. But the desire to learn will cast ignorance into the fire.

  • @Obtena.7952 said:
    snips

    theme over functionality is a bad argument to make.

    Te lazla otstara.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 16, 2019

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    snips

    theme over functionality is a bad argument to make.

    Maybe, but it's the one Anet uses most of the time to justify their class changes. If people want change ... and we know Anet is going to be the one to make it ... it's the justification that's most likely to get you what you want.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 16, 2019

    @santenal.1054 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    you should probably stop using this in PVP ... because even if they fix the things you think are broken, you're just going to complain about how you kill yourself on someone's retaliation ... and then ask for basically a whole new weapon.

    Attack me on what I have written, not on what you think I might write in the future.
    I played with flamethrower for a long time and never complained about retal. But I fully respect and understand the people who request that flame jet has its damage spread over a smaller amount of damage procs and that the burning condition would be spread out instead of only being applied on the last proc. It is a reasonable request.

    FT isn't a great PVP weapon ... and that's OK.

    How do you determine what is and isn't OK? Are you trying to tell me to just BE OK with how things are?

    I don't ... Anet does. If they wanted FT to be some amazing PVP weapon, it would ALREADY be. It is my opinion that since wedon't have a glut of weapon to choose from for any game mode, it's not a problem if FT isn't good in PVP. I'm simply telling you that if your premise to change a skill on FT is simply because of PVP, I'm going to wish you luck, because that's not ever been a significant reason for Anet to change a weapon skill.

    If you consider the theme, you're ideas don't actually make much sense.

    The "theme" wouldn't change at all (it being a short to mid range flamethrower weapon), but if you mean that the mechanics I suggest dont make much sense when compared to what is possible in real life you might have a point, but if that is the goal, anet can start deleting a whole lot of skills in this fantasy game. ( If you mean something else with "theme" please elaborate, instead of being all mysterious about it while talking down on me).

    You just want a weapon that works exactly for what you want to use it for. Not compelling reasons for change.

    I want the kit to be more usefull in small scale player vs player fights so more people can start using it again and start having fun with it. That is not exactly an unimportant aspect of the game imo.

    I know you do and I totally get why. It's simply not compelling if you look at how Anet makes class changes. PVP being important or not has nothing to do with FT being a good PVP weapon or not.

    Frankly, just based on the suggestion, I don't think it's a good change. Clearly, the idea of FT is to be hybrid-based and the short range is necessary to limit the scope of the weapon in the first place. Any ideas that pull it away from that just aren't going to go anywhere. Being hybrid doesn't prevent power users from benefiting from this weapon use. It might not be optimal for them, but that's not a reason to change it.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Nephalem.8921Nephalem.8921 Member ✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    Here is the deal ...

    you should probably stop using this in PVP ... because even if they fix the things you think are broken, you're just going to complain about how you kill yourself on someone's retaliation ... and then ask for basically a whole new weapon.

    FT isn't a great PVP weapon ... and that's OK. As it works, it's just fine for PVE ... and it's actually really good if you play to it's strength. It's theme is clear and that's what Anet cares about. But someone complaining they can't chase players with #2 wouldn't likely recognize that strength anyways and have no idea what I'm talking about when I say 'theme'. If you consider the theme, you're ideas don't actually make much sense. You just want a weapon that works exactly for what you want to use it for. Not compelling reasons for change.

    What strength? the napalm on a condi set or do you mean the meme open world ft build? Thats only useful because its good at tagging while it does nothing else so perfect for open world.

  • As a FT main, I actually like the new 2 as the old one was clunky and slow to use. It's easier now that you can fire (hurr) and forget. This kit has other problems I'd rather see addressed. The only thing I agree with is the range being low.

    3's cooldown is too low for how short lived and it is as a defense.
    Ever since the removal of Toss U's wall, 4 needs to destroy projectiles.
    5 needs more range, or become a smoke field, or both even.
    Also the 1 skill. Getting a single 4 second burn stack at the end of the auto is... weird to say the least. I'd change it to a half second of burning per damage tick. Also instead of getting a burst animation every 3 seconds, it really should be "hold to fire continuously". This will be.. what.. a mild damage boost at best?

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nephalem.8921 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    Here is the deal ...

    you should probably stop using this in PVP ... because even if they fix the things you think are broken, you're just going to complain about how you kill yourself on someone's retaliation ... and then ask for basically a whole new weapon.

    FT isn't a great PVP weapon ... and that's OK. As it works, it's just fine for PVE ... and it's actually really good if you play to it's strength. It's theme is clear and that's what Anet cares about. But someone complaining they can't chase players with #2 wouldn't likely recognize that strength anyways and have no idea what I'm talking about when I say 'theme'. If you consider the theme, you're ideas don't actually make much sense. You just want a weapon that works exactly for what you want to use it for. Not compelling reasons for change.

    What strength? the napalm on a condi set or do you mean the meme open world ft build? Thats only useful because its good at tagging while it does nothing else so perfect for open world.

    The strength of that weapon is its crit frequency in addition to it's AOE. Maybe that's not a big deal to you ... doesn't mean it's not a big deal and it doesn't change what I said either. IT's not a problem that FT is n't a great PVP weapon ... that's not unique to this weapon or this class. The way #2 works now is an improvement on how it used to work as well, so it's a relevant context.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • knite.1542knite.1542 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 18, 2019

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Nephalem.8921 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    Here is the deal ...

    you should probably stop using this in PVP ... because even if they fix the things you think are broken, you're just going to complain about how you kill yourself on someone's retaliation ... and then ask for basically a whole new weapon.

    FT isn't a great PVP weapon ... and that's OK. As it works, it's just fine for PVE ... and it's actually really good if you play to it's strength. It's theme is clear and that's what Anet cares about. But someone complaining they can't chase players with #2 wouldn't likely recognize that strength anyways and have no idea what I'm talking about when I say 'theme'. If you consider the theme, you're ideas don't actually make much sense. You just want a weapon that works exactly for what you want to use it for. Not compelling reasons for change.

    What strength? the napalm on a condi set or do you mean the meme open world ft build? Thats only useful because its good at tagging while it does nothing else so perfect for open world.

    The strength of that weapon is its crit frequency in addition to it's AOE. Maybe that's not a big deal to you ... doesn't mean it's not a big deal and it doesn't change what I said either. IT's not a problem that FT is n't a great PVP weapon ... that's not unique to this weapon or this class. The way #2 works now is an improvement on how it used to work as well, so it's a relevant context.

    Can you explain what you mean by crit frequency please?

    Time gates = content

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @knite.1542 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Nephalem.8921 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    Here is the deal ...

    you should probably stop using this in PVP ... because even if they fix the things you think are broken, you're just going to complain about how you kill yourself on someone's retaliation ... and then ask for basically a whole new weapon.

    FT isn't a great PVP weapon ... and that's OK. As it works, it's just fine for PVE ... and it's actually really good if you play to it's strength. It's theme is clear and that's what Anet cares about. But someone complaining they can't chase players with #2 wouldn't likely recognize that strength anyways and have no idea what I'm talking about when I say 'theme'. If you consider the theme, you're ideas don't actually make much sense. You just want a weapon that works exactly for what you want to use it for. Not compelling reasons for change.

    What strength? the napalm on a condi set or do you mean the meme open world ft build? Thats only useful because its good at tagging while it does nothing else so perfect for open world.

    The strength of that weapon is its crit frequency in addition to it's AOE. Maybe that's not a big deal to you ... doesn't mean it's not a big deal and it doesn't change what I said either. IT's not a problem that FT is n't a great PVP weapon ... that's not unique to this weapon or this class. The way #2 works now is an improvement on how it used to work as well, so it's a relevant context.

    Can you explain what you mean by crit frequency please?

    Ah, yes, what I mean is ... it procs crit based effects almost immediately on CD.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Nephalem.8921Nephalem.8921 Member ✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    Ah, yes, what I mean is ... it procs crit based effects almost immediately on CD.

    You mean bleed on crit? Because almost all the other stuff has an internal cooldown so the high rate of fire adds really nothing except of killing you vs retaliation + flamethrower has such awful low damage that spaming bomb 1 with 0 might does as much damage as ft with 25.
    FT is a very very badly designed weapon. The skill nr 2 change was some nice qol improvement which should have been in the game from the start though. Engineer kits just need a rework. Guard got like 50000 weapon and trait reworks. Its time for engi to get something useful. Engi weapons are just bad. Thats why everyone is playing scrapper or holo or full kits in every gamemode

  • Ghos.1326Ghos.1326 Member ✭✭✭

    @Nephalem.8921 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    Ah, yes, what I mean is ... it procs crit based effects almost immediately on CD.

    You mean bleed on crit? Because almost all the other stuff has an internal cooldown so the high rate of fire adds really nothing except of killing you vs retaliation + flamethrower has such awful low damage that spaming bomb 1 with 0 might does as much damage as ft with 25.
    FT is a very very badly designed weapon. The skill nr 2 change was some nice qol improvement which should have been in the game from the start though. Engineer kits just need a rework. Guard got like 50000 weapon and trait reworks. Its time for engi to get something useful. Engi weapons are just bad. Thats why everyone is playing scrapper or holo or full kits in every gamemode

    Sorry, I'll have to chime in here. What you said near the beginning about bomb 1 with no might doing as much damage as an FT auto with 25 might is absolutely false. Several factors play into this.
    Flamethrower is a unique weapon kit that really benefits off of 2 things: Crit chance and Quickness. High crit chance and high uptime of quickness can really see substantial increases in overall DPS. Because of the nature of the flamethrower entirely really (string of multiple hits that have their own separate crit chances). Not only the direct damage is effected, but the utils that the passive traits in the Firearms trait line offer are affected and increased in potency as well, because of the high crit chance. Which is why I always recommend, with running FT as a hybrid or power weapon, to run Firearms bot-bot-top (High Caliber for the increased crit chance when in range, and No Scope for the fury proc when you crit, which also augments ferocity). The bomb kit does deal high damage, but FT with crits outdamages it by a long shot. I'd try playing around with the aforementioned set up while running Scrapper bot-bot-bot (Mass Momentum for the might while you have stab every second, Object in Motion to better supplement damage increases while you have swiftness, stab, and superspeed, and Applied Force to gain more power while you have quickness while you gain might a or above the threshold).
    The FT skill 2 change, I agree, was a great QoL change. They just need to now get rid of that whole "rolling through foes" thing and just implement that initial aspects' damage and effect into the explosion part of the skill.
    Not all Engineer weapons are bad, it's just that the elite specs are currently over the top.

    The greatest enemy to improvement, is ignorance. But the desire to learn will cast ignorance into the fire.

  • Nephalem.8921Nephalem.8921 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ghos.1326 said:
    Sorry, I'll have to chime in here. What you said near the beginning about bomb 1 with no might doing as much damage as an FT auto with 25 might is absolutely false. Several factors play into this.
    Flamethrower is a unique weapon kit that really benefits off of 2 things: Crit chance and Quickness. High crit chance and high uptime of quickness can really see substantial increases in overall DPS. Because of the nature of the flamethrower entirely really (string of multiple hits that have their own separate crit chances). Not only the direct damage is effected, but the utils that the passive traits in the Firearms trait line offer are affected and increased in potency as well, because of the high crit chance. Which is why I always recommend, with running FT as a hybrid or power weapon, to run Firearms bot-bot-top (High Caliber for the increased crit chance when in range, and No Scope for the fury proc when you crit, which also augments ferocity). The bomb kit does deal high damage, but FT with crits outdamages it by a long shot. I'd try playing around with the aforementioned set up while running Scrapper bot-bot-bot (Mass Momentum for the might while you have stab every second, Object in Motion to better supplement damage increases while you have swiftness, stab, and superspeed, and Applied Force to gain more power while you have quickness while you gain might a or above the threshold).
    The FT skill 2 change, I agree, was a great QoL change. They just need to now get rid of that whole "rolling through foes" thing and just implement that initial aspects' damage and effect into the explosion part of the skill.
    Not all Engineer weapons are bad, it's just that the elite specs are currently over the top.

    Bombs scale with quickness aswell and they can also crit. The minor bleed in crit is the only trait that will procc more or golden dumplings but who uses them in open world anyways.
    And like i said. Bombs without might do as much damage as ft with 20-23. Juggernaut is a terrible trait to run. Just try it on golem. Add a strength sigil and you will have 10+ might with just pressing 1 on bombs while running around and they cleave 5 targets. And since you are not running juggernaut you can even swap to other kits/weapons and use good skills together with modified ammunition.
    I tried multiple builds after this and got way higher results using bombs or hammer. the braindead hammer + gyro build spam all off cd was also much higher than ft with skills. Standard raid holo with just self buffs did also twice the dps of the scrapper build.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nephalem.8921 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    Ah, yes, what I mean is ... it procs crit based effects almost immediately on CD.

    You mean bleed on crit? Because almost all the other stuff has an internal cooldown so the high rate of fire adds really nothing except of killing you vs retaliation + flamethrower has such awful low damage that spaming bomb 1 with 0 might does as much damage as ft with 25.
    FT is a very very badly designed weapon. The skill nr 2 change was some nice qol improvement which should have been in the game from the start though. Engineer kits just need a rework. Guard got like 50000 weapon and trait reworks. Its time for engi to get something useful. Engi weapons are just bad. Thats why everyone is playing scrapper or holo or full kits in every gamemode

    I don't honestly get your post because killing yourself on retal has NOTHING to do with using FT to proc on crits. TWO COMPLETELY separate issues.

    Hey, if you think spamming bomb 1 with no might does as much damage as FT with 25 stacks ... that's your OPTION to take and that's why FT as it is, isn't a problem. Bomb doing more DPS ISN"T a reason to change FT either, so it's a moot point. If you don't think crit procing is a valuable, that's fine, but it IS what FT does as part of it's strenght ... and if you have a clue how to take advantage of that, it does it really well ... but don't let me stop you from thinking spamming bomb 1 is better. I'm not going to tell you how to play.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Nephalem.8921Nephalem.8921 Member ✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    Hey, if you think spamming bomb 1 with no might does as much damage as FT with 25 stacks ... that's your OPTION to take and that's why FT as it is, isn't a problem. Bomb doing more DPS ISN"T a reason to change FT either, so it's a moot point. If you don't think crit procing is a valuable, that's fine, but it IS what FT does as part of it's strenght ... and if you have a clue how to take advantage of that, it does it really well ... but don't let me stop you from thinking spamming bomb 1 is better. I'm not going to tell you how to play.

    Everyone runs around with 50% critchance minimum. I really don't understand why "crit proccing" should matter when almost everything has an internal cd on it anyways and that one trait that works with it is even barely worth it.
    Its a garbage kit outside of the full condi pve engi for just 2 skills or lab farm as tag weapon. "Its part of its strength" has to be a joke. Every autoattack on core engi except bombs is garbage. That is a problem.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 19, 2019

    @Nephalem.8921 said:
    Everyone runs around with 50% critchance minimum.

    You think so? This is coming from the same guy that compares FT auto at full might stacks worse than unbuffed bomb AA? OK, whatever you say man ... That doesn't change what I said anyways and it should give you a hint of why this is a strength of the FT kit. BUT ... if you think that capability is not valuable to you or you can't figure out how to use that your advantage, you have better choices and aren't forced to use it.

    @Nephalem.8921 said:
    Its a garbage kit outside of the full condi pve engi for just 2 skills or lab farm as tag weapon. "Its part of its strength" has to be a joke. Every autoattack on core engi except bombs is garbage. That is a problem.

    No, that's not a problem. It's NEVER been a problem in this game. It's normal. Not every weapon is good for everything players want to use it for. Again ... you aren't recognizing our options aren't here to placate people's desire for a whole bunch of options in optimal performance ... it's THEME driven. I can't explain this to you. If you don't get it, you will simply have to sit and wonder why you can't figure out why Anet acts how they do.

    BTW, when did this thread become a 'let's fix AA on FT' ...

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Ghos.1326Ghos.1326 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 19, 2019

    @Nephalem.8921 said:

    @Ghos.1326 said:
    Sorry, I'll have to chime in here. What you said near the beginning about bomb 1 with no might doing as much damage as an FT auto with 25 might is absolutely false. Several factors play into this.
    Flamethrower is a unique weapon kit that really benefits off of 2 things: Crit chance and Quickness. High crit chance and high uptime of quickness can really see substantial increases in overall DPS. Because of the nature of the flamethrower entirely really (string of multiple hits that have their own separate crit chances). Not only the direct damage is effected, but the utils that the passive traits in the Firearms trait line offer are affected and increased in potency as well, because of the high crit chance. Which is why I always recommend, with running FT as a hybrid or power weapon, to run Firearms bot-bot-top (High Caliber for the increased crit chance when in range, and No Scope for the fury proc when you crit, which also augments ferocity). The bomb kit does deal high damage, but FT with crits outdamages it by a long shot. I'd try playing around with the aforementioned set up while running Scrapper bot-bot-bot (Mass Momentum for the might while you have stab every second, Object in Motion to better supplement damage increases while you have swiftness, stab, and superspeed, and Applied Force to gain more power while you have quickness while you gain might a or above the threshold).
    The FT skill 2 change, I agree, was a great QoL change. They just need to now get rid of that whole "rolling through foes" thing and just implement that initial aspects' damage and effect into the explosion part of the skill.
    Not all Engineer weapons are bad, it's just that the elite specs are currently over the top.

    Bombs scale with quickness aswell and they can also crit. The minor bleed in crit is the only trait that will procc more or golden dumplings but who uses them in open world anyways.
    And like i said. Bombs without might do as much damage as ft with 20-23. Juggernaut is a terrible trait to run. Just try it on golem. Add a strength sigil and you will have 10+ might with just pressing 1 on bombs while running around and they cleave 5 targets. And since you are not running juggernaut you can even swap to other kits/weapons and use good skills together with modified ammunition.
    I tried multiple builds after this and got way higher results using bombs or hammer. the braindead hammer + gyro build spam all off cd was also much higher than ft with skills. Standard raid holo with just self buffs did also twice the dps of the scrapper build.

    I'll showcase some of my damage on a golem, because on other player characters, with one flamethrower auto, i can hit anywhere up from 6-7k. I know because I use Juggernaut Flamethrower in PvP.

    EDIT: as a power build, to boot.

    The greatest enemy to improvement, is ignorance. But the desire to learn will cast ignorance into the fire.

  • Chaith.8256Chaith.8256 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I've been suggesting for years to make Flame Blast the way it is now, a ground targeted blast with roll-through damage, exactly the way Elementalist's Phoenix is.

    I'm a fan, I don't see a lot wrong here. It doesn't have to have a long-range chase or power damage to be 'fixed!'

    twitch.tv/chaithh
    Forum Lord Chaith

  • santenal.1054santenal.1054 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 24, 2019

    @Chaith.8256 said:
    I've been suggesting for years to make Flame Blast the way it is now, a ground targeted blast with roll-through damage, exactly the way Elementalist's Phoenix is.

    I'm a fan, I don't see a lot wrong here. It doesn't have to have a long-range chase or power damage to be 'fixed!'

    Phoenix has 300 more range and returns. The roll through path is also quite a bit wider on Phoenix (more likely to hit) (the camera angle isn't the same, but I Think the footage shows that what I am claiming is true, no?). How that skill works is significantly superior over Flame Blast. If flame blast worked like that, then I could get over the fact that I can't manually detonate anymore.


  • Chaith.8256Chaith.8256 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @santenal.1054 said:
    Phoenix has 300 more range and returns.
    How that skill works is superior over Flame Blast.

    I know, what is your point? No sense in a pointless cross profession comparison - the Phoenix is more user friendly and its good that flame blast has inherited the more user friendly tech.

    How quick to forget the old flame blast was being absorbed into walls and all the detonating bugs

    twitch.tv/chaithh
    Forum Lord Chaith

  • Ghos.1326Ghos.1326 Member ✭✭✭

    @Chaith.8256 said:

    @santenal.1054 said:
    Phoenix has 300 more range and returns.
    How that skill works is superior over Flame Blast.

    I know, what is your point? No sense in a pointless cross profession comparison - the Phoenix is more user friendly and its good that flame blast has inherited the more user friendly tech.

    How quick to forget the old flame blast was being absorbed into walls and all the detonating bugs

    The detonating bug (where in some instances, you couldn't even detonate it, and had to wait 5+ extra seconds until the skill went on cd) was one of the biggest reasons why I wanted the change to Flame Blast to be as it is now. I think they should either expand the roll-through effect, or get rid of it entirely and combine it all into its blast once it reaches its targeted area.
    For the most part though, I love the FT 2 change.

    The greatest enemy to improvement, is ignorance. But the desire to learn will cast ignorance into the fire.

  • santenal.1054santenal.1054 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 24, 2019

    @Chaith.8256 said:

    @santenal.1054 said:
    Phoenix has 300 more range and returns.
    How that skill works is superior over Flame Blast.

    I know, what is your point? No sense in a pointless cross profession comparison - the Phoenix is more user friendly and its good that flame blast has inherited the more user friendly tech.

    You asked for a "ground targeted blast with roll-through damage", but the roll-through damage path is so narrow it hardly even mathers it exists when used against moving targets (unlike with phoenix ). I just wanted to point that out because maybe you didn't notice that fact. (I'm trying to say that mechanics should be reasonably usable and I dont think that is currently the case with this portion of the skill).
    Because the skill is now ground targeted , it would be reasonable that they would increase the width to make it more usable or just add the damage to the explosion. (increasing the width is the beter option if you want to reward beter gameplay)

    You said :

    exactly the way Elementalist's Phoenix is.

    I (wrongfully) interpreted that as you saying that flame blast works exactly how Phoenix works.

    How quick to forget the old flame blast was being absorbed into walls and all the detonating bugs

    That bug didn't bother me much and besides, bugs can be fixed (in most cases). I dont ask for the old skill back, I just make suggestions to improve (imo) the current one.

  • Chaith.8256Chaith.8256 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @santenal.1054 said:.
    I (wrongfully) interpreted that as you saying that flame blast works exactly how Phoenix works.

    Yes, first half of that sentence was the context, it was the groundtargeting and roll through I said was exactly shared (and more as you've expertly pointed out) by the Phoenix.

    twitch.tv/chaithh
    Forum Lord Chaith

  • Ghos.1326Ghos.1326 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 28, 2019

    @Nephalem.8921 said:

    @Ghos.1326 said:
    Sorry, I'll have to chime in here. What you said near the beginning about bomb 1 with no might doing as much damage as an FT auto with 25 might is absolutely false. Several factors play into this.
    Flamethrower is a unique weapon kit that really benefits off of 2 things: Crit chance and Quickness. High crit chance and high uptime of quickness can really see substantial increases in overall DPS. Because of the nature of the flamethrower entirely really (string of multiple hits that have their own separate crit chances). Not only the direct damage is effected, but the utils that the passive traits in the Firearms trait line offer are affected and increased in potency as well, because of the high crit chance. Which is why I always recommend, with running FT as a hybrid or power weapon, to run Firearms bot-bot-top (High Caliber for the increased crit chance when in range, and No Scope for the fury proc when you crit, which also augments ferocity). The bomb kit does deal high damage, but FT with crits outdamages it by a long shot. I'd try playing around with the aforementioned set up while running Scrapper bot-bot-bot (Mass Momentum for the might while you have stab every second, Object in Motion to better supplement damage increases while you have swiftness, stab, and superspeed, and Applied Force to gain more power while you have quickness while you gain might a or above the threshold).
    The FT skill 2 change, I agree, was a great QoL change. They just need to now get rid of that whole "rolling through foes" thing and just implement that initial aspects' damage and effect into the explosion part of the skill.
    Not all Engineer weapons are bad, it's just that the elite specs are currently over the top.

    Bombs scale with quickness aswell and they can also crit. The minor bleed in crit is the only trait that will procc more or golden dumplings but who uses them in open world anyways.
    And like i said. Bombs without might do as much damage as ft with 20-23. Juggernaut is a terrible trait to run. Just try it on golem. Add a strength sigil and you will have 10+ might with just pressing 1 on bombs while running around and they cleave 5 targets. And since you are not running juggernaut you can even swap to other kits/weapons and use good skills together with modified ammunition.
    I tried multiple builds after this and got way higher results using bombs or hammer. the braindead hammer + gyro build spam all off cd was also much higher than ft with skills. Standard raid holo with just self buffs did also twice the dps of the scrapper build.

    I tried to link a photo, Let me know if it works. https://ibb.co/18kJWY6
    This is from one auto attack with 25 might.

    The greatest enemy to improvement, is ignorance. But the desire to learn will cast ignorance into the fire.