How do I survive in PvP as a Necro?

I like the monster movie, stalking demon feel of Necro, but I don't know how well I can make it work in PvP and WvW. I had an easy time of it in open world PvE and made some progress in WvW zergs with a build that spammed Staff and Well AoEs while giving people lifedrain, but when up against really good players or solo? Not so much. Are there any general gameplay tips for PvP and WvW I should know if I want to survive on a Necromancer?

@ZombieSlayeR.8702 said:

1. Get yourself an Ele to duo with
2. ???
3. Profit !

This, really. Doesn't necessarily have to be an electronic, but they are the most effective.

So...Just go in with whatever and headbutt my keyboard and have an Ele actually play the game?

I sometimes run with a healing spec druid, using a staff, on a condi build necro. They stay behind me spamming skill 1 and 2 , prolonging the inevitable, while I get the snot beat out of me

@Mercurias.1826 said:So...Just go in with whatever and headbutt my keyboard and have an Ele actually play the game?

The problem with necro is that they're a glass cannon in PvP. Shroud doesn't provide near the defense that people claim it does, and the PvP meta bears this out. The amount of boon convert means you can just take other players apart if they can't avoid you (say, because they're trying to defend a point). The tradeoff to that is that you have almost no mobility. Even with warhorn traited, swiftness isn't enough to "disengage". You also have no active defenses (ala Elixer S or Endure Pain) so there is no downside to someone focusing you down. You don't "waste" damage when someone pops their defense, so people just wail on a necro (often targeting them first in a fight before they can build up LF).

This means your only defense is to just not take the damage, which often means range. You can also deal with this by having someone provide active defense for you - which is the ele comment you see in this thread (Druid or a good Guard will work too). They help you stay alive, and in return you run through the enemy like a wrecking ball. If you're taking more than 10-15s to kill someone on necro, they're either really good or you missed some key abilities on them.

Get a Druid, better healing than an Ele, and they can help you with DPS too.

@Mercurias.1826 said:I like the monster movie, stalking demon feel of Necro, but I don't know how well I can make it work in PvP and WvW. I had an easy time of it in open world PvE and made some progress in WvW zergs with a build that spammed Staff and Well AoEs while giving people lifedrain, but when up against really good players or solo? Not so much. Are there any general gameplay tips for PvP and WvW I should know if I want to survive on a Necromancer?

For WvW only, I'm reading you have the most problems when fighting outside of zergs?Like when you are alone or in a small group fight.

As the posts above mentioned, having a healer partner helps considerably in small group fights. Having good positioning and including some kiting options in your build like spectral walk or Wurm helps too.

When you find yourself alone though and encounter 1 vs 1 fights, knowing what your enemy does and knowing what your build can do against such an enemy goes some way in helping increase your chances of winning.

There are many different foes and builds, though you may encounter the same few 'meta' ones more often.You can either, play the class/build yourself and understand its rotations and how it works, or fight them on your necro often enough till you get an idea of how to fight them.

1. Use a good build (I prefer more all-rounded builds that also allow for quick utility changes when encountering different foes)
2. Know your own burst rotations
3. Know your own defensive options
4. Know your opponent's burst rotations and defensive options
5. Think through points 2 & 3 so that it counters point 4
6. Your chances of winning increase

For example, vs a Thief. There are many Thief builds but the more common ones you see might be the Staff Daredevil.Applying the above points:

1. Use a good build. Lets say I'm using Condi build mainly with all-rounded defensive traits and utilities. Build link here. This was before they changed Speed of Shadows trait...but just for example. Utilities I usually swap on the go depending on the enemy if I spot them in time to change.
2. Know your own burst rotations. My build could apply burst with blinds and chills and fear that trigger bleed stacks via different skills/sigil/runes/food.
3. Know your own defensive options. Shroud is one option. Out of shroud defensive options are critical too, like your choice of utilities and weapons.
4. Know your opponent. Staff thief clears condi on evade, usually have 2 utilities, Shadowstep and Signet of Agility that clears condi too, does massive damage on Staff 5, is also an evade frame that has a window of vulnerability when landing, has a few burst combos, has a block that can be chained into a knockdown, has an elite that dazes etc.
5. Match points 2 & 3 to counter 4. Since the thief clears condi on evade, I need to land condi bursts on him and stop attacking so that he can't clear via evades and has to use his 2 utilities to clear the condi. I need to burst him at least 3 times to have a good chance of winning. Twice to force his utilities and the last time to down him. Since he needs to come close to damage me, I can use Shroud 2 dash blind to chill to bleed stacks to burst him. When I am out of shroud and he comes in to engage me, I can use skills like Spectral Wall to keep him away.
6. Your chances of winning increases.

Video here to help visualize things.Some points I did not mention in the video but was pointed out to me by others:

• The first fight major turning point and reason for my win was probably at the 2min 35 second mark when I landed a dagger 4 blind on the thief right as he was transitioning from block into the knockdown kick. Prevented his burst, destroyed his rotation, and put him on the back-foot.
• The second fight major turning point and reason for my loss was probably at the 4min 33 second mark when I dodged his steal but did not know that his follow up backstab was going to blast a huge hole in me. My subsequent rotations after that went downhill and I lost the fight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umN054KsZZU

That was exactly what I was looking for and I sincerely appreciate that beautiful info bomb.

Easiest way...In PvP, couple yourself with a supportive/bunker Engi, Ele, or Druid and don't just look away and button mash. Necros can survive a long time (even without support) with effective kiting and management of Shroud.

More challenging way: There are quite a few builds that can help you survive engagements, but against some builds/professions (rightfully so), it can get challenging. Learning to fight those challenges obviously takes practice, just mashing your skills all at once isn't the way to survive. Time it.

They had some changes over the years but they are still very sustainable in PvP when not outnumbered too much. Along with their damage output, that's why in PvP these days, people try to focus the necro and take them out of the equation as soon as possible.

This is how it feels sometimes:

Use this build, weapons is greatsword, Axe/Focus. i recovered and get to gold T1 using it. U can tank easily 2x1 with this. Except 2 condis necros. or any other condi spam duo. Note this is PVP Only. For WvW look for the condi build linked by EremiteAngel. WvW involves a lot of things and do not think that being good at PvP will make you good at WvW. On PvP Necros are great on support, so even if you use a build that is good against 2 or solo, avoid as much as you can get involved in this, Pvp is not about duels.

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:

@Mercurias.1826 said:I like the monster movie, stalking demon feel of Necro, but I don't know how well I can make it work in PvP and WvW. I had an easy time of it in open world PvE and made some progress in WvW zergs with a build that spammed Staff and Well AoEs while giving people lifedrain, but when up against really good players or solo? Not so much. Are there any general gameplay tips for PvP and WvW I should know if I want to survive on a Necromancer?

1. Use a good build (I prefer more all-rounded builds that also allow for quick utility changes when encountering different foes)
2. Know your own burst rotations
3. Know your own defensive options
4. Know your opponent's burst rotations and defensive options
5. Think through points 2 & 3 so that it counters point 4
6. Your chances of winning increase

1. Use a good build.
   Lets say I'm using Condi build mainly with all-rounded defensive traits and utilities.
   Build link here
   . This was before they changed Speed of Shadows trait...but just for example. Utilities I usually swap on the go depending on the enemy if I spot them in time to change.
2. Know your own burst rotations.
   My build could apply burst with blinds and chills and fear that trigger bleed stacks via different skills/sigil/runes/food.
3. Know your own defensive options.
   Shroud is one option. Out of shroud defensive options are critical too, like your choice of utilities and weapons.
4. Know your opponent.
   Staff thief clears condi on evade, usually have 2 utilities, Shadowstep and Signet of Agility that clears condi too, does massive damage on Staff 5, is also an evade frame that has a window of vulnerability when landing, has a few burst combos, has a block that can be chained into a knockdown, has an elite that dazes etc.
5. Match points 2 & 3 to counter 4
   . Since the thief clears condi on evade, I need to land condi bursts on him and stop attacking so that he can't clear via evades and has to use his 2 utilities to clear the condi. I need to burst him at least 3 times to have a good chance of winning. Twice to force his utilities and the last time to down him. Since he needs to come close to damage me, I can use Shroud 2 dash blind to chill to bleed stacks to burst him. When I am out of shroud and he comes in to engage me, I can use skills like Spectral Wall to keep him away.
6. Your chances of winning increases.

• The first fight major turning point and reason for my win was probably at the 2min 35 second mark when I landed a dagger 4 blind on the thief right as he was transitioning from block into the knockdown kick. Prevented his burst, destroyed his rotation, and put him on the back-foot.
• The second fight major turning point and reason for my loss was probably at the 4min 33 second mark when I dodged his steal but did not know that his follow up backstab was going to blast a huge hole in me. My subsequent rotations after that went downhill and I lost the fight.

Eremite please stop spreading the condi builds to newer Players. We seriously dont Need any more condi necros facerolling their way through wvw making the gamemode utter shit.

If you wanna start playing nec in wvw your far better off learning the class on power, since you actually learn the mechanics.

@ZombieSlayeR.8702 said:Eremite please stop spreading the condi builds to newer Players. We seriously dont Need any more condi necros facerolling their way through wvw making the gamemode utter kitten.If you wanna start playing nec in wvw your far better off learning the class on power, since you actually learn the mechanics.

lol why waste time on "learning power" for WvW.... WvW inst about duels, he almost goes on guild builds to be true. Perhaps, for Pvp, power is better.

@ugrakarma.9416 said:

@ZombieSlayeR.8702 said:Eremite please stop spreading the condi builds to newer Players. We seriously dont Need any more condi necros facerolling their way through wvw making the gamemode utter kitten.If you wanna start playing nec in wvw your far better off learning the class on power, since you actually learn the mechanics.

Learning a class doesnt really have anything to do with duelling. Besides pvp and wvw are more or less the same, ofc being good at pvp will make you good at wvw since its a pvp gamemode afterall.I dont know any good pvp Player that "sucks" in wvw.

Uhn... let's start... some of the questions were already answer, but leggo... I will start with PvP then go to WvW"How do I survive with Necro?" - you need to find a partner a babysitter - an ele, druid or other support class to q with you...However if you still want to q solo, I suggest to use a power build, now comes to tips from my side.If you are playing silver /low gold you have to adjust your build for how they teams plays the game... Usually players from these tiers make a lot of mistakes, and if I have to summarize how to play Necro agaisnt them is all about AoE and dmg output. Using a build with a lot of mobility (wurm, Spectral walk) will help you to survive if you are playing condi, if playing power go for staff and uses your AoE soft CCs and fear before engage, and just hit hard. Mettabattle build are useless in these tiers. I had a vanilla Necro placed in silver this season took me some time to move to gold specially because teams are pretty much bad in terms of rotations and survival... try to make the build support your team... I see a lot of ppl dying to DH traps, pistol pistol teefs, this kind of useless builds around the game. Adapt I used lich elite to build minions to unlock traps, AoEs, (again it's a F2P account, I guess Rise works fine for this purpose)

Going up in the ranks you have to surprise, in plat I had a very good season using the power wells build (CD heal/wells/CTTB with Demolisher Ammulet, Chrono Runes, GS /Axe/Warhorn - BM/SPITE/REAPER) in the start of the season, but nowadays ppl already learned how to counter it so the build is somehow useless. Makes tons of dmg this build and with the AOEs you create a radio of denial where you can seat somehow "safe". It's very bad against condi compositions. Each well is 5 /6 sec, and now ppl will only avoid the wells and reengage after... or since you need the "melee" to put your combos they will CC your life out.PPl from plat are aware of how to play and what to evade and avoid. when the wells build was new, ppl usually went to focus the necro first you spread your AoEs made tons of damage and still kept suvival due to LS trait in BM... Today they will avoid it completely, so you lose leverage... My suggestion you can kept if in hand due to the damage output (you can really dry ppl out with this build), but not as your main build. It sucks once ppl know you are playing it.

Now Im using the normal Condi build Shout Condi (scepter/warhorn /staff - Wand ammulet with Soldier runes - all shouts - Curses 221, SR 223,reaper132). This last build gives me a lot of condi cleans from shouts... if fighting condi teefs or burn guards I use plague sign ipo of one of my shouts and or sometimes Corrupt boom ipo Unbloackable shout. Usually I build a little of LF spread my condi combo and disengage stay in a safe distance... you will be focused so kite a lot, find the places where Revs, teefs and DH/Guards cannot port to. (there are specific places that gives you access to put your aoes and avoid portaling at the same time, these are the places you want to be, they are specific for each map). Look for team fights don't pick 1 vs 1 fights unless you are sure you will be +1 by your team).I use the shroud 2 to disengage and I avoid to say middle of the fight... TbH I spend most of my time running from chasing ppl around the points, thye will focus you, so soft CC like Chill can prevent them to follow you in places you can jump around the map (suffer helps a lot as a Chilling to avoid chasing). When I see oportunity I go for the condi combo, disengage wand it all starts again... That's the necro's life... kite, hide, combo, kite, jump, combo, hide and improvise. This build is very good when focused and gives you a pretty good amount of survival when qing alone. Meantime I hope my team has some dmg output in order to kill some of enemies before they take you down. (Cause they will be focusing you).So you survival depends on how good you are to avoid ppl to chase you, and how well you know your position in the maps.You have very small cleave potential, and very small capacity to stomp or get rid of downstate enemies during the fights, so count on your team to do that, but let them know...

For WvW:

I use 3 status lets talk about 2 mainly the other I run just to 1 shot ppl, but is hard to get the combo, and easy to end up death... so mainly I do to have fun...Other 2 real status are trailb, pretty much as eremite already explains. the other is celestial (I use in group fights, with Wells and GS ipo staff / axe/dagger)My reason is to stay middle line and corrupt booms from how is entering flanks, them move shourd and make tons of damage and repeat all over again... if you are in a good group (with a good commander) he will call target and you can take it and enjoy the axe damage, or get rid of condi with dagger 4). For these 15 ppl groups I always end up being the top dmg.

The condi build above imo is the best mobility aspect of roam in WvW... I use a lot spectral walk and wurm to move and disengage sincer WvW is harder than PvP to kite.

I hope I could be somehow helpful.

@ZombieSlayeR.8702 said:

Eremite please stop spreading the condi builds to newer Players. We seriously dont Need any more condi necros facerolling their way through wvw making the gamemode utter kitten.

If you wanna start playing nec in wvw your far better off learning the class on power, since you actually learn the mechanics.

Well...I didn't post that with the intention of spreading condi builds...just using it as an example as one of the steps in a series of steps to show OP how he could survive better on a necro...I did hint the build was outdated though...and I don't use it anymore myself...

Secondly, for the record I prefer power over condi/hybrids but power never really kept up with the sustain creep in WvW...

• I stopped using power during the time when Berserkers got their 3 stacks of primal burst healing and Power Reapers just didn't really have the ability to negate their primal bursts and prevent their sustain.
• Condi Reapers on the other hand could keep up the damage ticks and pressure their sustain. Which is also why I'm always very impressed with videos that shows Power Reaper winning against Berserkers.
• Also from my own experience at least, many foes have builds that skew more towards protection against power damage, than protection against condi damage. So condition was naturally a stronger choice in most scenarios.

Thirdly, I agree with your point that power builds are more mechanically demanding, especially the glassier ones, but not so much the order of learning it.

• In fact, for a newer player, I would recommend that they start on tankier condi builds since it allows more room for error for them to learn their rotations and enemy's rotations, before translating that experience into glassier power builds that are less forgiving and more mechanically demanding.
• Personally I don't like using a tankier sustain power build because as of now, our sustain cannot compare to other classes unfortunately.
• Glassier burstier power builds is the way to go for me, and for that, better combination of skills and knowledge is required compared to a condi build where you really just ooze continuous sustained damage from every pore in your Reaper's body and don't really need to chain any form of rotation to win. Just auto-casting skills off cooldown wins you most fights easily.

Fourthly, I disagree that playing well in PvP translate to playing well in WvW across all the different modes, for a Reaper at least.

• The environment, for one, is different. There isn't always a point to fight on, and there isn't always LOS to exploit. One needs to learn fights that take place in a much broader area and learn how to survive without LOS. As Kiritodatrth mentioned in his post above, it is much harder to kite in WvW. I feel the reason why mobility skills like Wurm and Spectral walk isn't made mandatory for small group roaming is because WvW players are generally less skilled at focusing a Necro. If you bring a good PvP party into WvW and they jump on a Necro, the Necro isn't going to have any chance to survive without Wurm/Spectral walk because WvW damage numbers are so much higher.
• Which leads me to my next point, power creeps are much higher in WvW, builds are burstier, focuses are harder to negate. For example, a Reaper shroud might be able to tank and force off a Condi Chrono for quite some time in PvP, but translate that to WvW where condition bursts from them ticks so much harder, Reaper shroud gets chewed off in seconds and one goes down fast.
• I do agree though that one can learn how to fight much faster in PvP than WvW since PvP throws us into almost constant fights while WvW will take a much longer time to learn since fights don't always come all the time.

For WvW if he really want become PRO, first find a dedicated WvW guild and ask for the build they use for necros, run with them. WvW is almost about positioning practice, training to fight with groups, is extremely situacional, and u need follow ur commander orders. Ex: if u are a condi bomber, when he ask for bomb, them u bomb.

I actually started in PvE on tanky condi builds, then came back from a break and rerolled a power Necro to 80. I found myself enjoying it a lot more, though this was back in the era of Blood Well Dagger/Horn monster necros.

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:Build link here. This was before they changed Speed of Shadows trait...but just for example.A little off-topic, but please could you tell me what you're doing now that build got a nerf? I've been running a very similar build for about six months and I haven't found a work-around to the SoS trait issue.

I enjoy necromancer in PvP and do pretty well. The trick is to kill the enemy before they kill you. Run demolisher amulet, soul reaping, spite, runes of strength. keep 25 stacks of might and reap things to the ground. Although as others have said, having support (ele) helps

I don't think PvP and WvW are even close in order to compare...I personally enjoy WvW much more than PvP in terms of requirements (I heard someone saying that WvW is the real war - and I have to agree).In PvP you kind of know what is coming for you, in WvW, other than higher bursts, you have no idea what to find.I play mainly PvP, but that's only because I'm in french server and I don't speak french it's hard to understand what they are saying or asking other than simple commands.I'm considering changing server tho if I find the right guild for me.

Now one thing is for sure, both game modes will make you understand the professions mechanics... I mean, you will be able to predict or read some other classes moves...PvP is less demanding in this sense (maybe because encounters happen so often.... Now with the seasons so close to each other I sbarely have time to WvW... And I completely ignore PvE content...

Pvp is more demanding in the sense of chose the right fights, make matches, know what you can face and when you can face it... You need to have control of the map, so you know what is coming for you, whether a enemy has CDs or not, how to rotate, what class is better to face whatever other class, and take advantage of the map to make the right choices where to be when to be (knowing that the enemy team composition and knowing what they will do).In WvW you dont have any idea, that's what makes a good commander... the capacity to foresee what groups will do and what we might face...

I have problems when I spend too much time in WvW to come to PVP (other than mechanics of profession), but about game play, that imo is completely different.WvW = real warPvP = how you deal with Strategy.

Maybe build diversity can bring more of WvW to PvP and make it more dynamic...

To survive in spvp as necro without much of a hassle follow the following steps:

1. Get a mesmer buddy to duo with.
2. Make your necro look exactly like him (same armor, same dyes, same character model)
3. Agree to both use same weapons out of the following: Staff, Greatsword, Scepter, Focus, Torch
4. Always run behind your mesmer buddy, but not too close.
5. When he attacks an enemy, stop and start auto attacking him. Only slower then usually. Like 1 attack per second. Pause between aa's.
6. Avoid big flashy attacks which give away you're the necro.
7. When he shatters run into enemy and dissapear (flesh wurm hidden out of enemy's line of sight is good for that).
8. If mesmer opens up his portal now is the time to separate. Having him in two places at once is scary, but no one will suspect a thing - with mesmers you can see 10 of them and it's nothing outta ordinary.
9. If he is a chronomancer and pops his continuum shift, you pop spectral walk - it'll let you reset to your old place when he shatters. If they ask why his clone has a green fluorescent trail of farts behind it, let him do the talking. Selling the story about eating a can of beans before match usually does the trick.
10. If downed be sure to not attack and quickly receive stealth as clones aren't stopmed - they dissapear. A friendly ranger behind the scenes to "Search and Rescue" while you're invisible will help you to do the trick.
11. If uncovered and about to get focused by the enemy do the flesh wurm. Blame game engine for shattering a clone of mesmer when he clearly did not use any shatters.

With the above guide you should be well on your way to enchanced necromancer surival rate in spvp. You're welcome!

@Svarty.8019 said:

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:

Build link here

. This was before they changed Speed of Shadows trait...but just for example.A little off-topic, but please could you tell me what you're doing now that build got a nerf? I've been running a very similar build for about six months and I haven't found a work-around to the SoS trait issue.

I didn't find one either :/I just zerged and didn't do much roaming.

The Necro class is so under-developed but yet the "Devs" are destroying the class.  As a Necro, you have no real ability to break stuns, roots, etc..  For starters, Shroud should also have immunity to all stuns, roots, fears, etc because we really don't have any other good abilities that do this and given the limit of spots on the action bar, we don't need a new ability that does this, it just needs to be added to what we already have and Shroud would be a good place to start.

The developers have done a poor job with PvP period.  For instance, you allow a ranger to do 10k damage an arrow, you give them a rapid fire and you allow them to root someone for 8-10 seconds and the roots deal damage....  You're not even giving the target player a chance to fight back... You're allowing the ranger to be a bully by getting a kill with one root and one rapid fire.  How in the "heck" is that balanced PvP!?

I run a Necro condi roamer and I can tell you, we have no mobility.  Once you're rooted, by a ranger...you're done!  Those roots will not break easily and if you could break them, you just wasted your action bar abilities trying to get free but you won't because the rapid fire of 10k damage an arrow will finish you in less than 3 seconds.

Absolute garbage class balance!

It's brain dead to give range players of any class all that damage on range attacks.  I've said it before in posts...  Range attacks should be small DOTs like 100 damage a tick.  You should force ranged players to come close, toe to toe and fight head up in order to do their biggest damage and that goes for all classes.  Necros are build to fight toe to toe already.

Mesmers, rangers, elementalist...  All range damage needs to be reduced to small DOTs or you're allowing them to get wins in the distance without being touched.

The other big problem is all the bullet proofing most classes do.  Too much immunity to all damage, full heals, teleporting, auto evade while moving, you name it!  Bullet proofing makes for bad PvP peroid!  That's the reason why a group of players can move together in WvW and become an unstoppable Gyro/Blob.  All the bullet proofing being concentrated as one unit....  WvW looks like garbage every time a group does that and it happens a lot!

Another example would be the thief....  If you're going to allow them to stay hidden like that, why give them so much damage on attacks?  Again, lame and brain dead.  I watched a thief take out 30 or more solo because he could stay hidden, AOE attack and vanish again.  He killed a whole army of players and only took a scratch of damage at best.

Lower the damage on a thief greatly because they are hidden all the time and can strike and hide, or take away their ability to stay hidden for so long.  You gotta balance things out instead of allowing them to be an untouchable God.

Mesmers are pretty muchl like the thief because they make clones, that's as good as vanishing so it's the same problem with that class.

But yet....  Players of other classes complained about the already weakest class in the game, the Necro.....  Apparently they just wanted to own the Necro in PvP and the "Devs" bought into it and "nefed"/destroyed the Necro class further, instead of improving it with mobility and the ability to immune against all effects that stop actions.  You do it with other classes, so why not the Necro?

Fighting guardians in WvW is like fight God.  They block everything, barely take a scratch and then they have a full instant heal ability.

It's World of Warcraft broken classes balanced PvP all over again and I hope the same fall that took place to "WOW" eventually happens in GW2 because the "Devs" won't do the right things to fix it all!

I bet the new class "Specs" are going to be jacked up as well but you can't worry about the beta stuff when you have to first fix the garbage that's killing PvP now and you can start by fixing the Necro class like they should be instead of "nerfing" what doesn't need and do something about all the enormous long range damage players are doing.

I'm so tired of seeing rangers in WvW kill another player with one rapid fire shot!  That's not even PvP, it's PvR (Player vs Rabbit).  

To be honest... Speed boosting in PvP is stupid.  I would have never added such a thing as a developer because the objective of PvP is the fight, not to run around like a chicken in combat.  You already have dodge, that's enough.  The speed boosting just further adds to the whole bullet proofing mess.

Here's the thing tho..... OP classes love the way things are....  Which is to be expected and that's what the "Devs" have to stop doing, giving in the those players who wanna just stay OP and fix the freaking game!

Can you please stop necro'ing years old threads with your textwalls?

This is not the first time you did this...