Thief - Deadly Ambition - Possible Up-coming change

[Alatar.7364]

Thief

Deadly Ambition: Reduce the poison inflicted by this trait from 2 stacks for 3 seconds to 1 stack for 2 seconds in PvP & WvW. Reduce the internal cooldown from 5s to 2s in PvP & WvW

Well someone failed to think this through big time, +100 Imaginary Score Points to the first person that correctly tells me why =D

[foste.3098]

If true than to avoid a wave of tears on the forum.Such a change would reduce the front loaded condi burst of steal > infiltrator's strike > dodge; but it would make poison uptime more consistent when outside of short bow, making it impossible to not be poisoned when faced against a thief (and this not taking in to account potent poison).I mean if this change is true then a non condi thief might even consider this trait over mug as perma passive poison is not to be underestimated and because it will ensure lotus poison procs on cooldown regardless of the weapon set used.

Could you link the article?

EDIT: on second look doesn't the new variant do more damage over a period of, let's say 10 seconds?

[Alatar.7364]

@"foste.3098" said:EDIT: on second look doesn't the new variant do more damage over a period of, let's say 10 seconds?

Not only that, but what you mentioned about reduced front-loaded burst is insanely inconsequential due to the fact it's now gonna apply poison every two seconds with more stacks than the previous version so basically nothing got reduced even despite duration being lowered by 1 second and passive poison spam got increased, that's like turning a main dmg condi in to both main dmg condi and cover condi at the same time, you simply ain't never gonna see it cleansed and that's already on top of the fact that Poison reduces Heal.

EDIT: Link;https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/86662/future-potential-wvw-centric-balance-changes-september-6th-2019/p1

As I mention in a thread title it is a possible change, but if it gets through we'll have Condi DrD all over the place even more than it is now.

[Trianox.3486]

It's less tactical in application with sword 2, but indeed better overall.

I already uses this trait for P/D DrD, and for staff DrD. Quite decent to be honest for any hybrid build, whether you focus more on power or condi.

For tactical builds which use sword2, the poison on steal would actually be more effective due to super long duration (14-19 sec depending on expertise/condi duration), and to panic strike anyways.

[babazhook.6805]

@Alatar.7364 said:

@"foste.3098" said:EDIT: on second look doesn't the new variant do more damage over a period of, let's say 10 seconds?

Not only that, but what you mentioned about reduced front-loaded burst is insanely inconsequential due to the fact it's now gonna apply poison every two seconds with more stacks than the previous version so basically nothing got reduced even despite duration being lowered by 1 second and passive poison spam got increased, that's like turning a main dmg condi in to both main dmg condi and cover condi at the same time, you simply ain't never gonna see it cleansed and that's already on top of the fact that Poison reduces Heal.

EDIT: Link;

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/86662/future-potential-wvw-centric-balance-changes-september-6th-2019/p1

As I mention in a thread title it is a

possible

change, but if it gets through we'll have Condi DrD all over the place even more than it is now.

I really do not think this trait change going to propel a whole lot more into Condition builds. Condition builds generally look for stacks of poison to accrue rather then poison just to be applied. This change makes that trait much more attractive to Power builds as it perpetual poison uptime so as to inhibit heals. It also much more useful to hybrids which generally have less overall condition sources thus less in the way of covers.

If implemented I forsee more power builds taking deadly ambition over Mug and more Hybrid builds overall . I do not think the number of Condition builds will jump a lot as the current form of the trait is better for them overall.

[Alatar.7364]

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@"foste.3098" said:EDIT: on second look doesn't the new variant do more damage over a period of, let's say 10 seconds?

Not only that, but what you mentioned about reduced front-loaded burst is insanely inconsequential due to the fact it's now gonna apply poison every two seconds with more stacks than the previous version so basically nothing got reduced even despite duration being lowered by 1 second and passive poison spam got increased, that's like turning a main dmg condi in to both main dmg condi and cover condi at the same time, you simply ain't never gonna see it cleansed and that's already on top of the fact that Poison reduces Heal.

EDIT: Link;

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/86662/future-potential-wvw-centric-balance-changes-september-6th-2019/p1

As I mention in a thread title it is a

possible

change, but if it gets through we'll have Condi DrD all over the place even more than it is now.

I really do not think this trait change going to propel a whole lot more into Condition builds. Condition builds generally look for stacks of poison to accrue rather then poison just to be applied. This change makes that trait much more attractive to Power builds as it perpetual poison uptime so as to inhibit heals. It also much more useful to hybrids which generally have less overall condition sources thus less in the way of covers.

If implemented I forsee more power builds taking deadly ambition over Mug and more Hybrid builds overall . I do not think the number of Condition builds will jump a lot as the current form of the trait is better for them overall.

With this change that trait is also gonna apply more stacks of poison than it does as for now, so if condi builds look for stacks of it then there it is.I also do not think its gonna create more condi build, what I ment is that this change is gonna make an already powerful build of DrD Condi S/D even more powerful, be it due to more stacks available or to almost uncleansable frequency of it.

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

I'm not sure what to think about it. It would be good for power builds to take with them. As it means that they can actually reduce any healing of another profession by 33%(sic). And if they keep attacking then they usually are able to keep it up.

That's kinda significant given that a big problem thief suffers right now is just being able to kill someone through their sustain. But that's more like a bandaid than actually addressing a global issue. And the bandaid kinda looses its stickyness when currently thieves can't afford to be in people's faces anymore.

[babazhook.6805]

@Alatar.7364 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@"foste.3098" said:EDIT: on second look doesn't the new variant do more damage over a period of, let's say 10 seconds?

Not only that, but what you mentioned about reduced front-loaded burst is insanely inconsequential due to the fact it's now gonna apply poison every two seconds with more stacks than the previous version so basically nothing got reduced even despite duration being lowered by 1 second and passive poison spam got increased, that's like turning a main dmg condi in to both main dmg condi and cover condi at the same time, you simply ain't never gonna see it cleansed and that's already on top of the fact that Poison reduces Heal.

EDIT: Link;

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/86662/future-potential-wvw-centric-balance-changes-september-6th-2019/p1

As I mention in a thread title it is a

possible

change, but if it gets through we'll have Condi DrD all over the place even more than it is now.

I really do not think this trait change going to propel a whole lot more into Condition builds. Condition builds generally look for stacks of poison to accrue rather then poison just to be applied. This change makes that trait much more attractive to Power builds as it perpetual poison uptime so as to inhibit heals. It also much more useful to hybrids which generally have less overall condition sources thus less in the way of covers.

If implemented I forsee more power builds taking deadly ambition over Mug and more Hybrid builds overall . I do not think the number of Condition builds will jump a lot as the current form of the trait is better for them overall.

With this change that trait is also gonna apply more stacks of poison than it does as for now, so if condi builds look for stacks of it then there it is.I also do not think its gonna create more condi build, what I ment is that this change is gonna make an already powerful build of DrD Condi S/D even more powerful, be it due to more stacks available or to almost uncleansable frequency of it.

I do not see the math behind it applying more. The Lower duration will mean the stacks are falling off earlier an the max app per is 2 stacks. Under the old you could get three stacks per application.

The new will only stack faster if the thief in question attacking and hitting the opponent every 2 seconds consistently > This might happen early in a fight but as it goes on that rate of attacks per second drops as Ini drops and utilities go on cooldown all while the enemy avoiding or blocking some of those attacks.

[Alatar.7364]

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@"foste.3098" said:EDIT: on second look doesn't the new variant do more damage over a period of, let's say 10 seconds?

Not only that, but what you mentioned about reduced front-loaded burst is insanely inconsequential due to the fact it's now gonna apply poison every two seconds with more stacks than the previous version so basically nothing got reduced even despite duration being lowered by 1 second and passive poison spam got increased, that's like turning a main dmg condi in to both main dmg condi and cover condi at the same time, you simply ain't never gonna see it cleansed and that's already on top of the fact that Poison reduces Heal.

EDIT: Link;

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/86662/future-potential-wvw-centric-balance-changes-september-6th-2019/p1

As I mention in a thread title it is a

possible

change, but if it gets through we'll have Condi DrD all over the place even more than it is now.

I really do not think this trait change going to propel a whole lot more into Condition builds. Condition builds generally look for stacks of poison to accrue rather then poison just to be applied. This change makes that trait much more attractive to Power builds as it perpetual poison uptime so as to inhibit heals. It also much more useful to hybrids which generally have less overall condition sources thus less in the way of covers.

If implemented I forsee more power builds taking deadly ambition over Mug and more Hybrid builds overall . I do not think the number of Condition builds will jump a lot as the current form of the trait is better for them overall.

With this change that trait is also gonna apply more stacks of poison than it does as for now, so if condi builds look for stacks of it then there it is.I also do not think its gonna create more condi build, what I ment is that this change is gonna make an already powerful build of DrD Condi S/D even more powerful, be it due to more stacks available or to almost uncleansable frequency of it.

I do not see the math behind it applying more. The Lower duration will mean the stacks are falling off earlier an the max app per is 2 stacks. Under the old you could get three stacks per that carried over duration wise to the next iteration.

If we assume 100 percent poison duration 2 stacks 4 seconds is the max you can pull off. Early in a fight you might get more on then the old but as it progresses and Ini runs low you are not attacking as often.

Condi DrD is used with Deadshot Amulet, Potent Poison and viable option of Rune of Thorns, you will get more stacks with the changed trait than you get now. You'll get 4 stacks every 5 second (every 4 technically) as opposed to current 3 stacks (with potent poison).

[babazhook.6805]

@Alatar.7364 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@"foste.3098" said:EDIT: on second look doesn't the new variant do more damage over a period of, let's say 10 seconds?

Not only that, but what you mentioned about reduced front-loaded burst is insanely inconsequential due to the fact it's now gonna apply poison every two seconds with more stacks than the previous version so basically nothing got reduced even despite duration being lowered by 1 second and passive poison spam got increased, that's like turning a main dmg condi in to both main dmg condi and cover condi at the same time, you simply ain't never gonna see it cleansed and that's already on top of the fact that Poison reduces Heal.

EDIT: Link;

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/86662/future-potential-wvw-centric-balance-changes-september-6th-2019/p1

As I mention in a thread title it is a

possible

change, but if it gets through we'll have Condi DrD all over the place even more than it is now.

I really do not think this trait change going to propel a whole lot more into Condition builds. Condition builds generally look for stacks of poison to accrue rather then poison just to be applied. This change makes that trait much more attractive to Power builds as it perpetual poison uptime so as to inhibit heals. It also much more useful to hybrids which generally have less overall condition sources thus less in the way of covers.

If implemented I forsee more power builds taking deadly ambition over Mug and more Hybrid builds overall . I do not think the number of Condition builds will jump a lot as the current form of the trait is better for them overall.

With this change that trait is also gonna apply more stacks of poison than it does as for now, so if condi builds look for stacks of it then there it is.I also do not think its gonna create more condi build, what I ment is that this change is gonna make an already powerful build of DrD Condi S/D even more powerful, be it due to more stacks available or to almost uncleansable frequency of it.

I do not see the math behind it applying more. The Lower duration will mean the stacks are falling off earlier an the max app per is 2 stacks. Under the old you could get three stacks per that carried over duration wise to the next iteration.

If we assume 100 percent poison duration 2 stacks 4 seconds is the max you can pull off. Early in a fight you might get more on then the old but as it progresses and Ini runs low you are not attacking as often.

Condi DrD is used with Deadshot Amulet, Potent Poison and viable option of Rune of Thorns, you will get more stacks with the changed trait than you get now. You'll get 4 stacks every 5 second

(every 4 technically)

as opposed to current 3 stacks

(with potent poison)

.

You only get more IF all of your extra attacks are hitting in that lower cooldown. It is easier to get 1 attack to hit every 5 seconds then it is to get 1 attack to hit every two seconds. You are presuming ideal conditions where the enemy never blocks or avoids an attack and where an attack being made by the thief every two seconds.

Added to that you have to factor in duration of those stacks , 4 seconds as opposed to 6 seconds. The theoretical max stacks in a 6 second period (albeit it ticks 1 second) on the older is 6 and on the new is four and again to get those 4 max stacks you have to attack and hit with that attack every two seconds. If one is playing p/d condition as example , you are rarely attacking every two seconds as you use time in stealth to setup a more telling attack. In the typical s/d condition build using daredevil line you rarely attack every two seconds. You get in and out as sticking around gets you in trouble.

[Alatar.7364]

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@"foste.3098" said:EDIT: on second look doesn't the new variant do more damage over a period of, let's say 10 seconds?

Not only that, but what you mentioned about reduced front-loaded burst is insanely inconsequential due to the fact it's now gonna apply poison every two seconds with more stacks than the previous version so basically nothing got reduced even despite duration being lowered by 1 second and passive poison spam got increased, that's like turning a main dmg condi in to both main dmg condi and cover condi at the same time, you simply ain't never gonna see it cleansed and that's already on top of the fact that Poison reduces Heal.

EDIT: Link;

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/86662/future-potential-wvw-centric-balance-changes-september-6th-2019/p1

As I mention in a thread title it is a

possible

change, but if it gets through we'll have Condi DrD all over the place even more than it is now.

I really do not think this trait change going to propel a whole lot more into Condition builds. Condition builds generally look for stacks of poison to accrue rather then poison just to be applied. This change makes that trait much more attractive to Power builds as it perpetual poison uptime so as to inhibit heals. It also much more useful to hybrids which generally have less overall condition sources thus less in the way of covers.

If implemented I forsee more power builds taking deadly ambition over Mug and more Hybrid builds overall . I do not think the number of Condition builds will jump a lot as the current form of the trait is better for them overall.

With this change that trait is also gonna apply more stacks of poison than it does as for now, so if condi builds look for stacks of it then there it is.I also do not think its gonna create more condi build, what I ment is that this change is gonna make an already powerful build of DrD Condi S/D even more powerful, be it due to more stacks available or to almost uncleansable frequency of it.

I do not see the math behind it applying more. The Lower duration will mean the stacks are falling off earlier an the max app per is 2 stacks. Under the old you could get three stacks per that carried over duration wise to the next iteration.

If we assume 100 percent poison duration 2 stacks 4 seconds is the max you can pull off. Early in a fight you might get more on then the old but as it progresses and Ini runs low you are not attacking as often.

Condi DrD is used with Deadshot Amulet, Potent Poison and viable option of Rune of Thorns, you will get more stacks with the changed trait than you get now. You'll get 4 stacks every 5 second

(every 4 technically)

as opposed to current 3 stacks

(with potent poison)

.

You only get more IF all of your extra attacks are hitting in that lower cooldown. It is easier to get 1 attack to hit every 5 seconds then it is to get 1 attack to hit every two seconds. You are presuming ideal conditions where the enemy never blocks or avoids an attack and where an attack being made by the thief every two seconds.

Added to that you have to factor in duration of those stacks , 4 seconds as opposed to 6 seconds. The theoretical max stacks in a 6 second period (albeit it ticks 1 second) on the older is 6 and on the new is four and again to get those 4 max stacks you have to attack and hit with that attack every two seconds. If one is playing p/d condition as example , you are rarely attacking every two seconds as you use time in stealth to setup a more telling attack. In the typical s/d condition build using daredevil line you rarely attack every two seconds. You get in and out as sticking around gets you in trouble.

With S/D DrD condi it's super easy to land those attacks, hitting someone once after two second period is not an ideal condition that is a 100% sure thing almost impossible not to especially regarding Thief AA and unblockable Sword#3 it especially benefits Condi S/D since you jump in unload your burst and then just AA or FS for mere 1 second as after IS and a Dodge (which is S/D burst with Steal mixed in if possible) you are already one second in the CD so staying around for one more second is nothing hence with the change S/D condi gets even more powerful, I may have not mentioned it explicitly but I had only DrD condi S/D in mind regarding this change since I suspect that's why Anet came up with it in the first place (as in sPvP there are no other Condi Thief builds and the change affects pvp too)

[Kageseigi.2150]

Wow, is Anet finally coming around? :-D

Now, if only they reduce Lotus Poison's cooldown to 4 seconds for constant Weakness uptime, we'll be cooking! :-D

Deadly Arts may actually become more universally important than Trickery!

[saerni.2584]

Having more consistent application is important in that a cleanse means the cooldown period prevents reapplication for that duration.

You are able to cut into your opponents sustain more so with the proposed change because the downtime is lower.

I agree with @babazhook.6805 that the uptime on attack’s will be a weakness here. You get the advantage most if you run Potent Poison, Poison/condi duration bonuses and can keep pressure even at range.

Maybe they can just change Deadly Ambition to add poison on stealth attack. That would be more active than a 100% uptime on Poison through a passive buff. Then I could add bleed, torment and poison on Sneak Attack :scream:

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

Before:2 stacks every 5s (3 stacks with Potent). Total damage in 10s = 4 stacks worth. With Potent, total of 6 stacks worth.

After:1 stack every 2s (2 stacks with Potent). Total damage in 10s = 5 stacks worth. With Potent, total of 10 stacks worth.

Hmm...I wonder which is better?

[Alatar.7364]

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:Before:2 stacks every 5s (3 stacks with Potent). Total damage in 10s = 4 stacks worth. With Potent, total of 6 stacks worth.

After:1 stack every 2s (2 stacks with Potent). Total damage in 10s = 5 stacks worth. With Potent, total of 10 stacks worth.

Hmm...I wonder which is better?

While I am sure the change will increase DMG in both stacks and over-time due to impossibility of cleansing, it is true as babazhook.6805 pointed out, that with the lower duration it will not carry over up to as high as 10 stacks, but that won't matter since the changed trait will tick dmg where the old one would be cleansed for several seconds give or take more likely some 33% of heal negated in between.

I still have to point out once more that it is a proposed change so I hope Anet will yet reconsider that.

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

@Alatar.7364 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:Before:2 stacks every 5s (3 stacks with Potent). Total damage in 10s = 4 stacks worth. With Potent, total of 6 stacks worth.

After:1 stack every 2s (2 stacks with Potent). Total damage in 10s = 5 stacks worth. With Potent, total of 10 stacks worth.

Hmm...I wonder which is better?

While I am sure the change will increase DMG in both stacks and over-time due to impossibility of cleansing, it is true as babazhook.6805 pointed out, that with the lower duration it will not carry over up to as high as 10 stacks, but that won't matter since the changed trait will tick dmg where the old one would be cleansed for several seconds give or take more likely some 33% of heal negated in between.

I still have to point out once more that it is a proposed change so I hope Anet will yet reconsider that.

I'm talking about 10 stacks worth of condition damage, not 10 stacks of poison. The short duration makes cleanse meaningless since you can reapply poison 2s later.

[babazhook.6805]

The reality is this not as big a boost to a condition build over existing as is being suggested. It will help power/hybrids much more.

Assume 100 per tick poison. The number here not all that important as we just looking at the damage advantages one over the other. We will use a 10 second time slice as that divisible both by 2 seconds and 5 seconds. All other sources of poison (outside potent) ignored. We look at the theoretical limit of damage out from the start of fight to 10 seconds in.

For the first two seconds old style does 300 damage per tick and proposed does 200 damage per tick.After that first 2 seconds the new style will gain a 1 stack advantage now putting out 400 per tick to ten second point. Old style will put out 300 damage per tick to the 10 second point barring one second where it can get 600 damage in that tick.

Total damage 3600 for the proposed change.Total damage 3300 for the existing trait.

Yes the new style will have more damage but not markedly so . However it is predicated on making one successful attack every 2 seconds rather then one every 5. This is not an average it a MUST do to maximize damage out. 1 single failure to make an attack every two seconds and old style does more damage.

At the same time the ability to load poison every two seconds in power builds is going to make those builds much better. The heal amount prevented is going to be a greater factor then the amount of added damage. (33 percent versus a MAXIMUM of 20 percent boost to damage out via the new trait with that damage out boost predicated on a successful attack every 2 seconds)

In game terms I see this as a wash from a condition perspective. I see it as much more helpful to power.

[Trianox.3486]

Just keep in mind that with the current 5 sec cooldown, you can very well hit at sec0, sec4, sec6 or 7...and therefore loose efficiency too just like you would with a 2sec cooldown. If you land many successful hits within 5 sec which does not trigger new poison application, but misses at the 5th, 6th secondes because your target evades, it is still not that great.

5sec is more tactical, 2sec is more spammy.

[foste.3098]

They needed to make the icd 3 seconds to make the new trait mathematically weaker than what we have now.

Regardless of icd i dislike the design of the trait as it is purely passive allowing for no interaction on the the enemy players part.Would be much better if it applied poison when some condition is met: like attacking from stealth, or flaking, or after you drop below x initiative you get a buff which makes your next attack(s) apply poison, ect anything just not what we have now.

[babazhook.6805]

@Trianox.3486 said:Just keep in mind that with the current 5 sec cooldown, you can very well hit at sec0, sec4, sec6 or 7...and therefore loose efficiency too just like you would with a 2sec cooldown. If you land many successful hits within 5 sec which does not trigger new poison application, but misses at the 5th, 6th secondes because your target evades, it is still not that great.

5sec is more tactical, 2sec is more spammy.

Understood , but that said NEEDING to hit a target every 5 seconds is still easier then needing to hit a target every 2 seconds. The main advantage of a 2 second cooldown over a 5 is after a cleanse by the enemy you can get that poison on again quicker but again this more about inhibiting a heal then it about accruing more overall stacks relative to the other. My main point is that this change will not translate to a rush of more players into condition builds. It much more likely to result in more power builds dropping mug to take this over mug.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Honestly I wish they'd just leave it or go thru with their intended change and let it rest. This is arenet u guys are talking about and I look at the previous trait change to what we have now a win which doesn't happen often with this team. I could easily see it changed to somthing very niche or outright useless and left to join the huge list of useless traits that no one uses. Than back to mug being a staple in EVERY build using DA.

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Trianox.3486 said:Just keep in mind that with the current 5 sec cooldown, you can very well hit at sec0, sec4, sec6 or 7...and therefore loose efficiency too just like you would with a 2sec cooldown. If you land many successful hits within 5 sec which does not trigger new poison application, but misses at the 5th, 6th secondes because your target evades, it is still not that great.

5sec is more tactical, 2sec is more spammy.

Understood , but that said NEEDING to hit a target every 5 seconds is still easier then needing to hit a target every 2 seconds. The main advantage of a 2 second cooldown over a 5 is after a cleanse by the enemy you can get that poison on again quicker but again this more about inhibiting a heal then it about accruing more overall stacks relative to the other. My main point is that this change will not translate to a rush of more players into condition builds. It much more likely to result in more power builds dropping mug to take this over mug.

You don't really need to hit a target every 2s, although ideal it's not necessary. Even if you hit 4 out of 5 tries within 10s, this proposed change will still put you ahead of the current iteration.

[babazhook.6805]

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Trianox.3486 said:Just keep in mind that with the current 5 sec cooldown, you can very well hit at sec0, sec4, sec6 or 7...and therefore loose efficiency too just like you would with a 2sec cooldown. If you land many successful hits within 5 sec which does not trigger new poison application, but misses at the 5th, 6th secondes because your target evades, it is still not that great.

5sec is more tactical, 2sec is more spammy.

Understood , but that said NEEDING to hit a target every 5 seconds is still easier then needing to hit a target every 2 seconds. The main advantage of a 2 second cooldown over a 5 is after a cleanse by the enemy you can get that poison on again quicker but again this more about inhibiting a heal then it about accruing more overall stacks relative to the other. My main point is that this change will not translate to a rush of more players into condition builds. It much more likely to result in more power builds dropping mug to take this over mug.

You don't really need to hit a target every 2s, although ideal it's not necessary. Even if you hit 4 out of 5 tries within 10s, this proposed change will still put you ahead of the current iteration.

As the math shows above you are talking a minimal difference. It comes to less then 3 percent IF those 4 attacks are made every two seconds and again that important. It not hitting with 4 attacks in 10 seconds. It is making sure those 4 attacks are two seconds apart. I can hit with the full 5 attacks out of a singular sneak attack in a second but that still only one trigger.

Again in a typical fight the added damage from conditions due to the number of stacks obtained by the proposed version over the old will not be of any great consequence.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

I feel like this is only being debated because poison reduces an opponent's healing, and the short cooldown. If we were talking about bleed, and even if bleed did the same damage that traited poison does, I doubt anyone would care about this change.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

May be a bit too strong now, 2sec easy poison proc, will make things like troll ugant/healing signer pretty useless.