What's Next After Antitoxin Rune?

[Sugar Min.5834]

For WvW cleansing Scrapper which would be the next best Rune to replace Antitoxin? Full Healing Runes? I have narrowed them down to these :

1. Water+175 healing power+25% boon durationHealing skill removes 1 condi, self and nearby allies (20 sec cooldown)

2. Nature's Bounty+175 healingminus 25% incoming condi durationHealing skill cleanses 1 condi, nearby allies only (10 sec cooldown)

3. Altruism+175 healing+125 healing power+15% boon durationElite skill transfers 1 condi from 5 allies within a 600 radius to yourself

4. Leadership+36 to All Stats+25% boon durationElite skill converts up to 3 condi into boons for nearby allies (45 sec cooldown)

5. Dwayna+175 healing+30% regen duration+20% regen effectiveness+10% max hp

6. Monk+175 healing+15% boon duration+10% healing effectiveness to allies only+1% healing effectiveness for 3 sec after granting a boon to allies (10 stacks max)

7. Rebirth+300 healing power+15% boon durationIgnore the next lethal blow and gain a barrier. (Cooldown: 90 Seconds)

My choice will be Water for condi remove, Monk for more heals or Dwayne for better regen since Scrapper has a few passive and active skills/traits that gives out regen. Did I miss out any better ones?

edit: added for ' WvW 'Thanks to JusticeRetroHunter.7684 for pointing out the difference between Healing and Healing Power ^^

[lostinoz.8659]

I've used both Water and Monk runes on my Medi Scrapper, you really cant go wrong with either. Personally I think the extra healing on the Monks is slightly better than the Water's extra condi cleanse.

[Vagrant.7206]

Leadership would be a logical choice, given boon duration + conversion.

[Za Shaloc.3908]

Assuming you are referring to WvW, I'd say Monk definitely bring the most value if running Sneak Gyro, and perhaps Altruism if running Mortar Kit.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

monk for sure. da heelz!

[Sugar Min.5834]

I already have a well geared Healing Tempest with Monk runes. A WvW heal bot.

I want my Support Scrapper to be a little different. So, I'll go for Water for that extra 10% boon duration and one more condi cleanse. With the trait, my healing gives heals, protection and cleanse + one boon.

I know I will be losing some heals compared to Monk but i believe that extra condi conversion and longer boon duration kinda neutralised the loss and also depending on situations, Water rune could work even better.

And besides, Monk's 10% + 1% healing effectiveness only affects allies not caster, am I right? Boons conversion and duration affects all.

[Dediggefedde.4961]

For WvW support scrapper in organized squads Monch seems to be the best. Purity-of-purpose guarantees a constant +25% outgoing heal + 15% boon duration.

The single group cleanse of Water rune every 20s is below 10% of your total cleanse count. That seems a bit wasted.

Dwana first sounds good since comeback-cure stacks lots of regeneration, but with the nerf of antitoxin will probably increase the amount of scourges and thus corrupts, warrior bubbles etc. So Regen-Duration will probably be completely wasted. +20% effectiveness sounds great, but medical dispersion field is healing more than regeneration (I use cleric gear), so the +25% outgoing heal will be better for the zerg. if you feel glassy and minstrel gear is not enough, it is a nice defensive rune, though.

However, if there's a thief with two smoke fields, I'm a big fan of Altruism + Mortar kit. This grants you 5 cleanse/s if you can survive the stacks. It also makes all zerg cleanse stronger, since you're a catalyst concentrating conditions before cleansing. My guess is that its cleanse is comparable with antitoxin, but with a stronger heal. Be aware of triple-digit-stack conditions, though.

[Dawdler.8521]

The problem with monk is that we are back to the tempest being the better actual healer, unless they got nerfed in the meantime. While there is place for a couple scrappers for the stealth gyro and maybe bulwark bubble, I foresee them being relegated to niche rather than zerg healer.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@Dawdler.8521 said:The problem with monk is that we are back to the tempest being the better actual healer, unless they got nerfed in the meantime. While there is place for a couple scrappers for the stealth gyro and maybe bulwark bubble, I foresee them being relegated to niche rather than zerg healer.

huh? how can tempests high cd's compete with med disperse field and medkit 1 spam?

[solemn.9670]

@op Monk is my favourite, and I would estimate probably the best heals /s choice, but I am not 100% sure anymore as balance patches over the past half a year may have changed things here and there.

We never needed antitoxin runes, I'm so glad it's being nerfed, I won't need to tell scrappers/tempests to stop using it anymore. It was a waste of heal efficiency for the sake of being the highest number in the arc-cleanses window. If nobody uses antitoxin runes in a squad with 3 scrappers, the 3 scrappers will cleanse ALMOST ALL the conditions in a timely manner without antitoxin runes, while doing substantially more heals /s (and if they're not then you need to find better heal scrapper players). Antitoxin rune was a complete waste of a rune for so many healers, I am so glad I don't need to argue about it anymore, it was so frustrating seeing people making such a blatant mistake just because everyone else was doing it.

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:The problem with monk is that we are back to the tempest being the better actual healer, unless they got nerfed in the meantime. While there is place for a couple scrappers for the stealth gyro and maybe bulwark bubble, I foresee them being relegated to niche rather than zerg healer.

huh? how can tempests high cd's compete with med disperse field and medkit 1 spam?

Ya. Scrapper has F1 (massive heal), medkit 4 (massive heal), medkit 2 (medium burst heal), medkit 3 + blast, and elixir gun 5 aoe, plus medkit 1 spam which is just insane, plus condi into boon conversion + regen + any healing scrapper takes is returned in aoe to others. Tempest can burst heal several times as well, and has good passive regen if you're traited for it, as well as good might (possibly fury depending on traits) uptime as well. But it hardly compares to the raw healing output of scrapper.

[coro.3176]

I would probably go with Dwayna or Monk out of those choices.

The ones with effects on elite skill usage are going to be less useful in fights, since commanders tend to want to coordinate Sneak Gyros before engaging so you can't use it mid-fight as an emergency condi clear.

+10% health is also not to be underestimated. It compensates for the -300vit a bit.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@"SoulSlavocracy.4902" said:snips

ye. somewhere a dood did some maths and proved that scrapper actually isn't that far behind ventari rev. so imo for hps its tempest, scrap, then rev at top. dunno where drood would be, close to tempest probs.

edityou do get the soothing mist 10 target thing which is great for groups, but what we're talking about here is heals to one person.

[Dawdler.8521]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:you do get the soothing mist 10 target thing which is great for groups, but what we're talking about here is heals to one person.No we're not, we're talking about WvW zerg healers... not heals to one person.

Oh I remember having that discussion with revs years ago when I was still playing tempest (before scrapper was even an option). They showed these awesome clips of burst healing 1 guy up to 100% fast. And the reaction was just yeah so what? I keep half the zerg alive.

[Dediggefedde.4961]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:you do get the soothing mist 10 target thing which is great for groups, but what we're talking about here is heals to one person.

Scrapper really shines at WvW zerging, though.Soothing mist has a 10 target cap, but comeback cure gives regeneration on every cleanse. And since cleanse is smart enough to target people with conditions instead of just you group, you can stack regeneration on the full zerg. Especially in against arrow carts this gives an insanely high heal in addition.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:you do get the soothing mist 10 target thing which is great for groups, but what we're talking about here is heals to one person.No we're not, we're talking about WvW zerg healers... not heals to one person.

Oh I remember having that discussion with revs years ago when I was still playing tempest (before scrapper was even an option). They showed these awesome clips of burst healing 1 guy up to 100% fast. And the reaction was just yeah so what? I keep half the zerg alive.

hate to break it to you, but you're not keeping the zerg alive lol. don't get me wrong, I think tempest sustain is great, but it can't keep ppl alive thru heavy damage which is the most important thing.

[Dawdler.8521]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:you do get the soothing mist 10 target thing which is great for groups, but what we're talking about here is heals to one person.No we're not, we're talking about WvW zerg healers... not heals to one person.

Oh I remember having that discussion with revs years ago when I was still playing tempest (before scrapper was even an option). They showed these awesome clips of burst healing 1 guy up to 100% fast. And the reaction was just yeah so what? I keep half the zerg alive.

hate to break it to you, but you're not keeping the zerg alive lol. don't get me wrong, I think tempest sustain is great, but it can't keep ppl alive thru heavy damage which is the most important thing.Nothing keeps the zerg alive through heavy damage except good manouvering and dodging. The point is to keep a large amount of people at overall high hp so they can have time to react, rather than keep one person alive. In the same clips I mentioned, I saw those revs just let people run around at < 20% hp and people dying around them getting zero heals that a tempest could have easily kept up only by passive hp regen. But again, I havent played that for

years

. Its not in the current meta. I just wonder if the meta will accept a scrapper that doesnt cleanse as many condis anymore, or if they will go more raw healing. Most commanders already demand more guards instead of anything else if they have a choice and other zergs totally frontload like 70%+ scourges.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@Dawdler.8521 said:snips

outside of bombs, heal rev can keep 5 ppl alive thru most things. also they have higher regen then tempest, altho tempest can hit more ppl. that 1200 per sec or whatever it is from soothing mist is great but its supplemental at best. if revs are letting ppl die around them that's their fault not the build.

[Sugar Min.5834]

~ deleted ~I better not comment about Tempest. I fear ANet's nerf bat.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@Mil.3562 said:~ deleted ~I better not comment about Tempest. I fear ANet's nerf bat.

nah you're good, it already has a built in 'drawback' similar to what they've been adding to other classes.

[Stagar.7216]

@Dawdler.8521 said:The problem with monk is that we are back to the tempest being the better actual healer, unless they got nerfed in the meantime. While there is place for a couple scrappers for the stealth gyro and maybe bulwark bubble, I foresee them being relegated to niche rather than zerg healer.

Scrapper still useful cause of the super speeds and stealth

[Sugar Min.5834]

Are you guys sure that Soothing Mist has a 10 target cap? I thought that trait skill only works on Shouts.

[Sugar Min.5834]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:The problem with monk is that we are back to the tempest being the better actual healer, unless they got nerfed in the meantime. While there is place for a couple scrappers for the stealth gyro and maybe bulwark bubble, I foresee them being relegated to niche rather than zerg healer.

huh? how can tempests high cd's compete with med disperse field and medkit 1 spam?

Tempest has a number of high and sustainable heals if traited correctly. The high cd is never a concern.

Before the antitoxin and quick regen nerf, i will agree that Scrapper gives maybe slightly better heals. But now.... sigh.

[Burn.5021]

Keep in mind that there is a significant difference between Healing and Healing Power.

[PeLi.5498]

Monk using sneak gyro, altruism without the gyro

[Sugar Min.5834]

@Burn.5021 said:Keep in mind that there is a significant difference between Healing and Healing Power.

There is a difference?