Unbalanced and Unfun WvW

[KrHome.1920]

The problem is to allow transfers right after the linkings are done.

This is easy to fix (1. transfer window, then 2. linkings, then 3. closed servers until next transfer window) ... if you want to fix it at all.

[subversiontwo.7501]

I've said this elsewhere but (assuming it wasn't here, I'm losing track) it suffices to be mentioned again:

Things are usually not as simple as people here portray it. There are plenty of guild-less and relatively faceless players in WvW these days because that is a direction that Anet has encouraged in various ways. That is a big difference compared to the past. In fact, most people posting here are likely that kind of player and has that perspective as a result.

OneWhen these kind of transfers go down it is more likely that you have two guilds who are friends who decides to move. Then you have a couple of other guilds who want to hang out with them and then you have everyone else who wants to hang out with them. For example, I doubt that all the 5 guilds who transfered to Ranik did so together. If they did some criticism could be warranted because there isn't really anyone else around with a 5-guild core anymore. However, until convinced otherwise I would assume that it is 2-3 guilds getting together. That is just being friends and social. Either way, that leads into #2.

TwoIt is not those guilds fault that every comparable opposition has died. Even a 5-guild core used to be a reasonably-sized community a few years back. That it has grown comparatively larger, powerful and impactful is on ArenaNet and not on the players. ArenaNet have made players quit by not giving WvW due attention. That is especially true for WvW-first players in guilds. There's nothing else to say about that. A 5-guild core is nothing different than the typical Alliance that was envisioned in the announcement almost 3 years ago. The game mode has just died to the point of making the normal abnormal.

ThreeNow, to go full circle. The reason guilds decide to move tend to be one of two things that both involve having to take measures to keep your guild alive and friends from being scattered: Either part of their guild is on the link because they can't recruit to their full server. That forces them to leave when they get unlinked or just give up on their guild or the players in it: Players who are already doing what they can to be constructive and helpful. The other common reason would be that their server is just so bloated so the guild is having difficulty getting their players to play together. Queues are especially not fun when you create the content that causes the queue. Then they transfer to get away from "everyone else". It is then not their fault when everyone else transfers after them - (re)creating the size issues, coverage issues, queue issues and full-server recruitment issues.

YouThe people who criticize the guilds for this tend to be in the "everyone else" clique who - if I'm allowed to be a bit blunt - are the the real problem if any part of the playerbase can be seen as the problem. They just don't see these things because they lack the necessary experience for the perspective or can not get past the bias. The guilds do not owe you anything, you are meant to make your own guilds and help create the content. When the guilds transfer the problem more so lie in the "everyone else" that transfers after them rather than making guilds of their own. However, I still maintain that ArenaNet is the real culprit here because they have done absolutely nothing to encourage players creating new guilds and done everything to encourage players to just anonymously consume the content that exists. That is why we are down this path. The concrete discussion lies in examples like Alliances and GvG but the abstract discussion lies in exactly that: ArenaNet creating an unsustainable culture of player behaviour, taking the exisiting content for granted. That is why we are here now, because all of the little attention that has been given to WvW overall has been given to make it easier for existing players to consume the pickup content that dwindedly exists.

MeI can also honestly admit that after all these years of neglect and trying to fight the uphill battle, I am now part of the problem myself. All my friends are quitting, go on haitus or are scattered over the entire region so I too have just made a hobo account that I transfer around to whereever I please to check out the content. That is afterall the behaviour that the developer is encouraging. It is nothing out of the ordinary. I've tried to make new guilds only to see unsurmountable transfer fees ahead of us and having problems convincing our friends to pay to just play together. I have tags but I'm not interested in solo-leading 49 faceless players who don't even have the decency to talk to me etc. This may be a social game but those players are not even social and that is yet another standard that ArenaNet has failed to uphold. You can discuss hardcore vs. casual but quite alot of the issues we see in WvW these days are problems of where we fail to even meet the standard of being social. So I've just resigned to stay in touch with small cliques of friends here and there, safari-transfering and multi-accounting. I, like other players I'm sure, will keep doing that until Alliances come out and if that is never, then that is never - we'll just free-ride the content out just like the developer is doing.

[Diku.2546]

@subversiontwo.7501

I agree with your personal observation on what Server Linking has done to WvW.

At least we both can find comfort saying Told you so...

2017.05.09World Linking is systematically destroying the lower levels of an ecosystem that took years to evolveTold you so

Credibility requires critical insight & time.

[CrimsonRise.7650]

@Vardy.3592 said:Players transferring is not the problem. It's the symptom, not the cause.

It's about time we seriously considered deleting tier 5, thats either by deleting the now dead servers in it, or just going back to 3-server links.

It actually might be a good time to do just shrink the EU down to Four Tiers now, but I wonder how many are left on Kodash who would complain about their community dissappearing. It also depends on whether people transfer before the next relink.

[Smoosh.2718]

Imagine if there was a server loyalty for WvW, gain greater rewards the longer you are part of one server.

[Jilora.9524]

@"subversiontwo.7501" said:I've said this elsewhere but (assuming it wasn't here, I'm losing track) it suffices to be mentioned again:

Things are usually not as simple as people here portray it. There are plenty of guild-less and relatively faceless players in WvW these days because that is a direction that Anet has encouraged in various ways. That is a big difference compared to the past. In fact, most people posting here are likely that kind of player and has that perspective as a result.

OneWhen these kind of transfers go down it is more likely that you have two guilds who are friends who decides to move. Then you have a couple of other guilds who want to hang out with them and then you have everyone else who wants to hang out with them. For example, I doubt that all the 5 guilds who transfered to Ranik did so together. If they did some criticism could be warranted because there isn't really anyone else around with a 5-guild core anymore. However, until convinced otherwise I would assume that it is 2-3 guilds getting together. That is just being friends and social. Either way, that leads into #2.

How can you possibly doubt the mass transfer by a half dozen guilds and 150 players as coincidence and not coordinated? This happened 2 times by dzag and wsr mass exodus because they got no link and couldv'e at least stayed in t4 maybe t3 but chose to all abandon a server.

TwoIt is not those guilds fault that every comparable opposition has died. Even a 5-guild core used to be a reasonably-sized community a few years back. That it has grown comparatively larger, powerful and impactful is on ArenaNet and not on the players. ArenaNet have made players quit by not giving WvW due attention. That is especially true for WvW-first players in guilds. There's nothing else to say about that. A 5-guild core is nothing different than the typical Alliance that was envisioned in the announcement almost 3 years ago. The game mode has just died to the point of making the normal abnormal.

It's not each individual guilds fault but this situation it absolutely is those guilds fault that they need to always be together so in the rare instances they get no link they have to previously complain our 120 players can't play with those 30 others that used to transfer to our link because we don't have one lets mass stack a medium.

ThreeNow, to go full circle. The reason guilds decide to move tend to be one of two things that both involve having to take measures to keep your guild alive and friends from being scattered: Either part of their guild is on the link because they can't recruit to their full server. That forces them to leave when they get unlinked or just give up on their guild or the players in it: Players who are already doing what they can to be constructive and helpful. The other common reason would be that their server is just so bloated so the guild is having difficulty getting their players to play together. Queues are especially not fun when you create the content that causes the queue. Then they transfer to get away from "everyone else". It is then not their fault when everyone else transfers after them - (re)creating the size issues, coverage issues, queue issues and full-server recruitment issues.

Sure again a guild may have that issue and of course guilds should move occasionally and no one minds that. You are trying to use a legit excuse a guild may run into to again justify a mass exodus and stack with massive implications. Now next link you know They will transfer back to wsr and dzag and then they screw the servers they just were on and most likely get linked with gunners hold and Deso or something dumb and now you got 2 huge full servers together again. And that is to say if the other 2 random servers who get no link don't mass exodus now leaving 4 dead servers and the cycle continues and grows.

YouThe people who criticize the guilds for this tend to be in the "everyone else" clique who - if I'm allowed to be a bit blunt - are the the real problem if any part of the playerbase can be seen as the problem. They just don't see these things because they lack the necessary experience for the perspective or can not get past the bias. The guilds do not owe you anything, you are meant to make your own guilds and help create the content. When the guilds transfer the problem more so lie in the "everyone else" that transfers after them rather than making guilds of their own. However, I still maintain that ArenaNet is the real culprit here because they have done absolutely nothing to encourage players creating new guilds and done everything to encourage players to just anonymously consume the content that exists. That is why we are down this path. The concrete discussion lies in examples like Alliances and GvG but the abstract discussion lies in exactly that: ArenaNet creating an unsustainable culture of player behaviour, taking the exisiting content for granted. That is why we are here now, because all of the little attention that has been given to WvW overall has been given to make it easier for existing players to consume the pickup content that dwindedly exists.

This is by far the worst blaming those left on dzag and wsr as "everyone else" click. Imaging being a non-wvw player but seeing a double exp event and logging into wvw to play and your rocking 8 ppt and own nothing getting spawned camped. Yeah anet allows these transfers and needs a better system but players from dzag and wsr are the problem taking advantage of the system to this extent.

MeI can also honestly admit that after all these years of neglect and trying to fight the uphill battle, I am now part of the problem myself. All my friends are quitting, go on haitus or are scattered over the entire region so I too have just made a hobo account that I transfer around to whereever I please to check out the content. That is afterall the behaviour that the developer is encouraging. It is nothing out of the ordinary. I've tried to make new guilds only to see unsurmountable transfer fees ahead of us and having problems convincing our friends to pay to just play together. I have tags but I'm not interested in solo-leading 49 faceless players who don't even have the decency to talk to me etc. This may be a social game but those players are not even social and that is yet another standard that ArenaNet has failed to uphold. You can discuss hardcore vs. casual but quite alot of the issues we see in WvW these days are problems of where we fail to even meet the standard of being social. So I've just resigned to stay in touch with small cliques of friends here and there, safari-transfering and multi-accounting. I, like other players I'm sure, will keep doing that until Alliances come out and if that is never, then that is never - we'll just free-ride the content out just like the developer is doing.

Yeah it's become part of the problem or actually be able to deal with being in t5 and struggling like Dzag and Wsr might of if no one mass transferred but the score would be 500k-320-280k. But because of not wanting to struggle the score is 900k-125kto70k. Complete embarrassment what they did and you make a wall of text thread defending it.

[Diku.2546]

@Jilora.9524@subversiontwo.7501

Common denominator of both your discussions based on my perspective.

Left to themselves...players will actively do whatever it takes to selfishly get to the fun aspects of WvW...even if it means destroying their own Long-Term communities.

World Linking - Creating Links between Servers by ANetAlliance Linking - Creating Links between Guilds by ANet

Team Creation Solutions will be manipulated by players for their own benefit.

2017.04.27Don’t balance population. Let players stackTold you so

Credibility requires critical insight & time.

[Jilora.9524]

@Diku.2546 said:@Jilora.9524@subversiontwo.7501

Common denominator of both your discussions based on my perspective.

Left to themselves...players will actively do whatever it takes to selfishly get to the fun aspects of WvW...even if it means destroying their own Long-Term communities.

World Linking - Creating Links between Servers by ANetAlliance Linking - Creating Links between Guilds by ANet

Team Creation Solutions will be manipulated by players for their own benefit.

2017.04.27Don’t balance population. Let players stackTold you so

Credibility requires critical insight & time.

Diku you meme this always. You are kinda like the players who say GW2 is dying or will die. Eventually they will be right. Just like with your I told you so. Anyone can predict that if players left unchecked in a competitive mode eventually they will abuse it and ruin said mode.

[Diku.2546]

@"Jilora.9524" said:

You are kinda like the players who say GW2 is dying or will die. Eventually they will be right.

Sorry...have to disagree with your statement, but can we both agree that we want WvW to get better?

The "Diku" meme has a long history that explains the problem & directly provides a good solution for WvW.

I seriously DO NOT want WvW to die & be "right".

I want to see WvW thrive & flourish.

---

I seriously DO want WvW to engage players to return to GW2 because it encourages healthy competition.

Where the WvW game mode can annually host tournaments.

2019.11.28WvG TOURNAMENTS - Using New Match-Up Mechanics based on a Globe Raiding Modelhttps://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1064956/#Comment_1064956

There are real world examples of what a "competitive sport" can be like that's very lucrative for both owners & players in the "game".

Super Bowlhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl

World Serieshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Series

---

Design the Match-Up right & the eSport can be very lucrative...the potential for WvW has always been there...imho

Sadly...instead of being able to have exciting discussion as rivals between Team names from the AFL or NFL in anticipation to an annual Super Bowl event...

We're reduced to discussing polls like this for WvW:

Most enjoyable colour to be?https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/110320/most-enjoyable-colour-to-be

2015-12-29Go Purple Splatoon…yay…I’m so excited over a color.Watch the video links...pretty funny on how it relates to this poll.Chuckles...Told you so

I hope we can both agree that WvW can be better than this Poll on Color.

Once again...Credibility requires critical insight & time.

[subversiontwo.7501]

@"Jilora.9524" said:How can you possibly doubt the mass transfer by a half dozen guilds and 150 players as coincidence and not coordinated? This happened 2 times by dzag and wsr mass exodus because they got no link and couldv'e at least stayed in t4 maybe t3 but chose to all abandon a server.Listen to yourself, 150 players is not alot. It fits into a single guild. It is 1/3 of a single Alliance as those were envisioned. You also missed what I said. I don't think 100 of those players are uncoordinated amd coincidental. However, the 100 players did probably not directly talk to the second wave of 250 players or the corresponding waves that turned that server from medium to full. 100 or 150 players do not turn a server from medium to full. That's is likely 1000's.

This is by far the worst blaming those left on dzag and wsr as "everyone else" click. Imaging being a non-wvw player but seeing a double exp event and logging into wvw to play and your rocking 8 ppt and own nothing getting spawned camped. Yeah anet allows these transfers and needs a better system but players from dzag and wsr are the problem taking advantage of the system to this extent.You failed to understand what was said here as well, even though it was put plainly. It was not a reference to the people who stayed on the dead server (though, in all fairness, they should also make guilds of their own, as everyone should). The "everyone else" was in the plain context of those who moved.

People moving after the guilds who are not in those guilds or in a direct symbiotic relation to them (ie., friends of people in those guilds where both sides wants to play together). If you take the guilds and their friends the initial waves are likely much larger than 150 but also not larger than 500. The problem is the people who transfer after the guilds whome the guilds do not want to transfer after them. At the same time, those people are not doing anything malicious, they just want access to the content. However, that is where the developer needs to step in, that is where the systems fail to effectively govern, encourage and discourage.

If you look at the Alliance system, it is things like that which is baked into the finer details of the system. It's also why Alliances remain relevant today even after 3 years and all the damage done to the communities in this mode. The issues with Wsranik and Dzillers are prime examples of why we need the Alliance system as soon as is humanly possible. Not because those 100, 150 or 500 players should behave differently but because more of everyone else needs to be given better tools to behave similarily (ie., create alliances, create guilds, create tags, create content). There are still plenty of people who can do the things that Bez, Killu, Sky or anyone else there does (or Swaggy and Shin etc.), however, they are not motivated to do it under the existing system. They are not prepared to jump as many hurdles and be as patient. Their guilds are dead, their friends are scattered etc.

As a little aside here: The funniest thing about this whole ordeal with WvW is that WvW is the only mode in the game that inherently promotes building a guild, building community. So with WvW being so underattended so is the entire premise of building guilds and building communities. Raids require statics, sPvP require teams etc. WvW is the place for which to build a guild and foster a community makes sense. That is also the worst attended of the major modes in the game.

[Jilora.9524]

@subversiontwo.7501 said:

@"Jilora.9524" said:How can you possibly doubt the mass transfer by a half dozen guilds and 150 players as coincidence and not coordinated? This happened 2 times by dzag and wsr mass exodus because they got no link and couldv'e at least stayed in t4 maybe t3 but chose to all abandon a server.Listen to yourself, 150 players is not alot. It fits into a single guild. It is 1/3 of a single Alliance as those were envisioned. You also missed what I said. I don't think 100 of those players are uncoordinated amd coincidental. However, the 100 players did probably not directly talk to the second wave of 250 players or the corresponding waves that turned that server from medium to full. 100 or 150 players do not turn a server from medium to full.

This is by far the worst blaming those left on dzag and wsr as "everyone else" click. Imaging being a non-wvw player but seeing a double exp event and logging into wvw to play and your rocking 8 ppt and own nothing getting spawned camped. Yeah anet allows these transfers and needs a better system but players from dzag and wsr are the problem taking advantage of the system to this extent.You failed to understand what was said here as well, even though it was put plainly. It was not a reference to the people who stayed on the dead server (though, in all fairness, they should also make guilds of their own, as everyone should). The "everyone else" was in the plain context of those who moved. People moving after the guilds who are not in those guilds or in a direct symbiotic relation to them (ie., friends of people in those guilds where both sides wants to play together). If you take the guilds and their friends the initial waves are likely much larger than 150 but also not larger than 500. The problem is the people who transfer after the guilds whome the guilds do not want to transfer after them. At the same time, those people are not doing anything malicious, they just want access to the content. However, that is where the developer needs to step in, that is where the systems fail to effectively govern, encourage and discourage.

If you look at the Alliance system, it is things like that which is baked into the finer details of the system. It's also why Alliances remain relevant today even after 3 years and all the damage done to the communities in this mode. The issues with Wsranik and Dzillers are prime examples of why we need the Alliance system as soon as is humanly possible. Not because those 100, 150 or 500 players should behave differently but because more of everyone else needs to be given better tools to behave similarily (ie., create alliances, create guilds, create tags, create content). There are still plenty of people who can do the things that Bez, Killu, Sky or anyone else there does (or Swaggy and Shin etc.), however, they are not motivated to do it under the existing system. They are not prepared to jump as many hurdles and be as patient.

I use 150 as a guess. A few 30 man guilds. Idk where you are thinking there are 150 man WvW guilds and say 150 off one server isn't alot. I don't have access to the tranfer numbers. I would hope anet has some update to population from med to high to vh to full in the event a mass tranfer starts not all 300 timing it in discord to transfer at the same time so they all can get in at 500 gems. That's where "your everyone else fades because no way 2 hours after 150 transfer would it be only medium thus costing the "everyone else" more. It jumped from med to full so alot transferred. You watch NA and 50 players bandwagon BG link and that rarely even results in a med-high jump.

"You failed to understand what was said here as well, even though it was put plainly" I mean it is a nice way of saying someone's stupid I guess but watch the insults.

Alliance will not save us. It will be run by players. The 1st alliance will stack as perfect as they can across all time zones. The next will be close. And it will deteriorate to imbalance just like now. The only saving grace would be every 2 months you can try to build a better alliance to beat the top one's.

You obviously seem to be involved in this og transfer and now blame the others who followed. Why did you just not suck it up and play w/o a link. It wouldn't of been terrible. I mean Deso and BG and many servers have dropped a few tiers but didn't abandon entire servers to a deserted wasteland.

[subversiontwo.7501]

@"Jilora.9524" said:I don't have access to the tranfer numbers. I would hope anet has some update to population from med to high to vh to full in the event a mass tranfer starts not all 300 timing it in discord to transfer at the same time so they all can get in at 500 gems. That's where "your everyone else fades because no way 2 hours after 150 transfer would it be only medium thus costing the "everyone else" more. It jumped from med to full so alot transferred. You watch NA and 50 players bandwagon BG link and that rarely even results in a med-high jump.Well in all fairness, in both of the examples you mentioned: Ranik and Millers, there are only two guilds that really matters (Kill+Lays and tC+iY respectively). Any of them feeling compelled to move is what started this avalanche. No one else matters and that is not me trying to be mean, that is just how things are. It is highly unlikely that there is some grand conspiracy at work here. It is simply any of them wanting to move and "everyone else" following.

Alliance will not save us. It will be run by players. The 1st alliance will stack as perfect as they can across all time zones. The next will be close. And it will deteriorate to imbalance just like now.

I have no idea if Alliances will save us or not. That remains to be seen and the train may have left the station. What I do know, because it has been revealed as fact, is that Alliances will be 500 players (so that is my reference for many discussions here) and they will come with systems that makes a server full for unaffiliated players before it is regarded as full for affilliated players and gives affiliated players the option to move by just joining a guild. Those things mean that guilds may not have to transfer because they can still recruit and transfer members in when reclusive players can not transfer. It will also let them recruit players who do not have 1800 gems or 600 gold on hand. That is pretty significant. They can just recruit every two months and have players appear on their server. If you want to make a new guild you can put everyone in it on the same server every two months and not have to pay 36.000 gems or 12.000 gold for the pleasure of (re-)making a guild and getting the chance to play the game you paid for, with your friends. If your friend from WoW, FFXIV, AA, BDO, ESO or whatever wants to buy the game and play with you, you can just put him/her in your guild and they will be on your server. That's very positive.

The only saving grace would be every 2 months you can try to build a better alliance to beat the top one's.

You consider that a small thing? That is a hugely positive thing for the potential content in this mode. It essentially IS the mode.

You obviously seem to be involved in this og transfer and now blame the others who followed. Why did you just not suck it up and play w/o a link.I'm not on either Ranik or Millers (well, technically I have an account on AG which has been there since 2013, so I could play with Ranik but I am not).

What I am involved with is guilds, that is why I know these things that you seem not to. You can expect almost anyone who is a member of a relatively good guild to see and know these things. Many of them know it better than me. However, very few of them post here. For example, the only reason I know it was 5 guilds transfering to Ranik is because I was told so by Vardy who has posted in this thread. Yet, again, in both of these cases only two guilds for each server really matters. I could probably name a couple of more guilds but like I said, and no offense to them, they're not really relevant for this discussion.

[Jilora.9524]

@subversiontwo.7501 said:

@"Jilora.9524" said:

Well in all fairness, in both of the examples you mentioned: Ranik and Millers, there are only two guilds that really matters (Kill+Lays and tC+iY respectively). Any of them feeling compelled to move is what started this avalanche. No one else matters and that is not me trying to be mean, that is just how things are. It is highly unlikely that there is some grand conspiracy at work here. It is simply any of them wanting to move and "everyone else" following.

What compelled them was having no link and didn't want to struggle so they stacked. To me that's poor behavior and a detriment to this mode. I'm getting wrecked in 3rd everyday and I didn't go hey guys lets all 90 of us tranfer to a stacked servers link.

I have no idea if Alliances will save us or not. That remains to be seen and the train may have left the station. What I do know, because it has been revealed as fact, is that Alliances will be 500 players (so that is my reference for many discussions here) and they will come with systems that makes a server full for unaffiliated players before it is regarded as full for affilliated players and gives affiliated players the option to move by just joining a guild. Those things mean that guilds may not have to transfer because they can still recruit and transfer members in when reclusive players can not transfer. It will also let them recruit players who do not have 1800 gems or 600 gold on hand. That is pretty significant. They can just recruit every two months and have players appear on their server. If you want to make a new guild you can put everyone in it on the same server every two months and not have to pay 36.000 gems or 12.000 gold for the pleasure of (re-)making a guild and getting the chance to play the game you paid for, with your friends.

The only saving grace would be every 2 months you can try to build a better alliance to beat the top one's.

You consider that a small thing? That is a hugely positive thing for the potential content in this mode.

I don't consider that a small thing but like I said the 1st alliance built on both EU and NA will be stacked AF with most of the best guilds with as close to even coverage as you can get across all timezones. Even with the ability for the rest of the alliances to restructure they will never be able to defeat that 1st stack.

What I am involved with is guilds, that is why I know these things that you seem not to. You can expect almost anyone who is a member of a relatively good guild to see and know these things. Many of them know it better than me. However, very few of them post here. For example, the only reason I know it was 5 guilds transfering to Ranik is because I was told so by Vardy who has posted in this thread. Yet, again, in both of these cases only two guilds for each server really matters. I could probably name a couple of more guilds but like I said, and no offense to them, they're not really relevant for this discussion.

That's great. You have some inside info I am not privy too. But it's second hand info from a guy who has some info not all because even he doesn't know every single player who transferred so you info is not complete. Again what do I seem not to know? That this mass transfers is bad for the game. That dzag and WSR are desolate for 2 months. That they will magically repopulate next relink. That players abuse this system. That anet needs to act soon to stop this snowball that is getting worse and ruining the mode for many servers and players? I don't need to be a member of guilds like you to figure stuff out. In fact you with all this info is defending this behavior is absurd so I feel I have more insight to how this affects the mode then you do.

[Jilora.9524]

delete plz

[dnouknow.4763]

@Jilora.9524 said:

@subversiontwo.7501 said:

@Jilora.9524 said:

Well in all fairness, in both of the examples you mentioned: Ranik and Millers, there are only two guilds that really matters (Kill+Lays and tC+iY respectively). Any of them feeling compelled to move is what started this avalanche. No one else matters and that is not me trying to be mean, that is just how things are. It is highly unlikely that there is some grand conspiracy at work here. It is simply any of them wanting to move and "everyone else" following.

What compelled them was having no link and didn't want to struggle so they stacked. To me that's poor behavior and a detriment to this mode. I'm getting wrecked in 3rd everyday and I didn't go hey guys lets all 90 of us tranfer to a stacked servers link.

What compelled them was their members beeing split on different servers , but that obviously doesnt fit the Forum narrative , so what i meant to say they only transfer for easy fights . ;) Gotta keep on hating.

[Jilora.9524]

@dnouknow.4763 said:

@Jilora.9524 said:

@subversiontwo.7501 said:

@Jilora.9524 said:

Well in all fairness, in both of the examples you mentioned: Ranik and Millers, there are only two guilds that really matters (Kill+Lays and tC+iY respectively). Any of them feeling compelled to move is what started this avalanche. No one else matters and that is not me trying to be mean, that is just how things are. It is highly unlikely that there is some grand conspiracy at work here. It is simply any of them wanting to move and "everyone else" following.

What compelled them was having no link and didn't want to struggle so they stacked. To me that's poor behavior and a detriment to this mode. I'm getting wrecked in 3rd everyday and I didn't go hey guys lets all 90 of us tranfer to a stacked servers link.

What compelled them was their members beeing split on different servers , but that obviously doesnt fit the Forum narrative , so what i meant to say they only transfer for easy fights . ;) Gotta keep on hating.

That's definitely possible. 200 could have transferred off to play with the 35 on the link. It went from full to med right after re-linking so I find your guess unlikely.

[dnouknow.4763]

The 3 Main WSR guilds that transferred were split, problem is they got a huge fanboy following that always transfers after them, so its no suprise the Server went full. Doubt they like it, but there is nothing they can do about it .

[Jilora.9524]

W/e the reasons it's just bad for the mode and those left on WSR and Dzago. It's the i wanna play with my friends type thing. It just happens they seem to have too many friends to fit on one server

[Jilora.9524]

Here's the thing. I'm sure Deso and BG(NA) have players who are linked to them and join their guilds. Thus making their guilds fractured as you said. But never did all of Deso or BG transfer off when they had no link and leave their server empty. Now Jade Sea last link was dead too. Maybe they did the same thing as Dzago and WSR just did. All I am saying is that this new mass exodus thing is going to affect EU especially more and more and needs to be addressed.

[phreeak.1023]

Kill and Layz transferred because they have no link who is going to ppt for them. Nothing else.. They want to fight 3-4 hours a day and leave the work to the linked server.

[Diku.2546]

It's more efficient to fix something by directly fixing the source of the problem...imho

Hmm...Unbalanced and Unfun WvW

Can we agree that Unfun is because Match-Ups are Unbalanced?

If we can agree on this...

How can we "Balance" Match-Ups?

IN-DIRECT - Team CreationMatch-Up Model - WvW Match-Ups are broken into 3 Tiers of Bronze, Silver, and Gold / 3 Teams battle within each TierSolution(s) - Forcefully make the Teams equal to each other

DIRECT - Re-Design the Match-UpsMatch-Up Model - WvW Match-Ups are based on a Server Raiding Mechanic that is player driven, but ANet controlledSolution - Change the Match-Up Model & tweak the ANet controls

Full context for Server Raiding

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