RyuDragnier.9476

Because we DO have a problem. Thief can only do damage, not support. Ele? Multiple attunements for support, multiple builds. Ranger? Druid and spirits. Warrior? Banners. Guardian? It is living support. Mesmer? Mirage and Chronomancer. Necromancer? Wells and Scourge. Engineer? Scrapper. Revenant? Ventari, Herald, and Renegade. Now compare Thief to all of them. What does it have for viable support? Outside of lolVenoms (only Basilisk Venom is useful, and that's only for Defiance bars), there is Signet of Agility to remove condis from allies and restore endurance, Shadow Refuge, and Shadow Portal. That is it, there's no real support to be had for Raids, Strikes, Fractals, or WvW. Thief is the ONLY profession that suffers from a lack of support. So yes, there is a problem for which Specter is the solution to...if Anet would let it excel in support instead of nerfing it.

Won't help your allies, which is what the trait is supposed to be for.

Too late, Druid exists.

I have an answer, but it isn't one anybody likes to hear. They'll likely not do anything with Specter at all should single target healing fail and we'll be left with yet another niche barely taken elite spec.

Ahh yes, the failed mode (IMO) that led to constant nerfs of classes since launch until they finally realized they needed to separate PvE, PvP, and WvW skill changes (something they already should have known from GW1 balancing).

No, it wasn't the trait's fault. It was Shroud's fault. I personally used Consume Shadows without staying in Shroud simply because Shroud was worthless for a Support spec, it did less than Scepter. Specter has better support than Shroud, and that's a design flaw with Shroud, not Consume Shadows. Even with the current change, I will not stay in Shroud when I could just sit out of it and do more healing and support with Scepter and Wells.

While true, they can also mitigate the issue easily through the proper tweaks. Example, if they wished to nerf Firebrand's damage through burning. We all know this is caused by Amplified Wrath in the Radiance traitline. It currently does 15% increased burning damage and 20% duration increase. They could drop the damage increase down to say...13%, resulting in a nerf to Firebrand's condi damage without exactly destroying anything else it has.

I don't even know why they still want Specter to do damage. We asked for Support, which was something thief was lacking and is the main reason why Thief isn't taken much for group content. We already have base thief, Daredevil, and Deadeye (lol) for damage, why do we need another elite spec for that?

Even then they could have just nerfed the heal a little while keeping it as it was, and then buffing the Shroud skills so they're worth using. They don't do enough damage or support to even warrant the Shroud's use.

Thinking on it, I really think they should have made the Shadow Shroud moves work like Scepter. If you're siphoned to an enemy, all the skills do more damage with little support. If you're siphoned to an ally, the skills do more support with little damage. Equalize it so Shroud is something you want to use, but it comes with the downside of being locked out of your slot skills.

You do know other specs have had access to all of this for years, right?

And then they'll continue to not be taken simply because they don't provide anything to the group. No, the idea behind the spec is fine, the problem is rather than have the spec revel in its support, Anet is too terrified of Specter HAVING good support. Look at all the Shroud skills, not a single one of them is good enough support to warrant staying in Shroud. Look at Scepter, rather than keep the 3 person heal/quickness, they nerfed it. The AA for Scepter only hits 1 target instead of being able to hit multiple (at least 1 enemy and ally would work for this). The 2 is just the AA in a stronger form. Look at Consume Shadows, they nerf it instead of dealing with Shroud to solve the problem of CS being a better use of Shroud's gauge. Look at the Well of Bounty, it only gives boons you don't have and Might if you have them all. Anet is TERRIFIED of Thief having actual support, and this spec will suffer unless they get over that fear and just let Thief have something good for once. We already have specs for damage, let us have a spec for support that can compete with the other big supports.

It needs more support in Shadow Shroud and a revert to the changes it just got for Sc/P 3 and Consume Shadows

In the case of some of the specs, the complaints are heavily warranted, and in others...what the hell are you complaining about? Example of a good complaint, the changes to Specter's Consume Shadows and Scepter/Pistol 3 are heavy nerfs to its support ability, something the spec is SUPPOSED to be good at, and don't really go over the reason why Consume Shadows was used without hesitation (because Shroud has no good support options) or why Scepter/Pistol 3 was so well liked (it hit 3 allies instead of just 1 and had quickness). But rather than fix the core of these complaints, being Scepter's single target focus (it should at least hit both an enemy AND a single ally) and Shroud's lack of good support, they instead destroyed what little good support the spec had. Example of a bad complaint, complaining that the specs have X weapon and not Y weapon. Just...questionable complaints instead of complaining about what needs some serious changes for the elite spec to be viable.

Judging from the changes, only if you treat it like Condi Quickbrand. Meaning it's there to throw out the Alacrity while also spamming condi damage on the enemy, and nothing else. I'd just stick with Condi Quickbrand since you have a lot more useful boons overall.

Which isn't a surprise, Guardian has been Anet's "Golden Child" for a while now. I still hate that you could bring a single Guardian and basically have access to any and all possible builds in the game, when no other profession has that.

Scaling with vitality? Oof, that makes this a pretty significant nerf then if it only heals 50% and requires a 5 second setup. Prior to this the Consume Shadows trait was super useful due to how it was instant and could heal for a ton and cap out a barrier easily. But if it's capped at 50% of the max HP, that means it's pretty much useless for healing or barrier in raids or WvW, which is where you'd want it the most. Because that means players who have 14K HP are only being healed for 7K...which actual healers can do more of easily. And since that barrier is tied to overcapping HP, that simultaneously makes the barrier useless due to the long setup period. Add into that the nerf to Sc/P 3's target amounts, and all the support in this spec just got nerfed into the ground save for Alacrity Wells. That basically forces this spec into only condi damage with a hint of alacrity.

How many DEs do you see these days? Legitimate question here. I mostly see Daredevils and base spec Thieves everywhere, I don't remember the last time I saw a Deadeye in open world content.

Alacrity effects utility skill and Shroud cooldowns, so it IS useful. It's just not useful for initiative purposes.

If it was never meant to be an emergency heal, then why does it require the sacrifice of Shroud to heal so much? That sounds like the textbook definition of an emergency heal. It's akin to gauge dumping, something you wouldn't do normally unless it was an emergency.

Which is why Shroud sucks so badly. If I'm going support build, why should I even use the class mechanic then? It serves no purpose, and the very trait they're nerfing is a support trait that people willingly sacrificed Shroud using because Shroud had no good support. Thus to fix the problem, Shroud must have good support, else it's going to be treated as badly as it was before. You weren't taking the Condi to healing power trait if you were going support, because Consume Shadows was better support. You weren't taking Shallow Grave because that's an emergency passive that is only taken if you don't think you can survive. The way to fix this is, once again, buffing Shroud so Consume Shadows comes with an actual big cost. I can tell you right now, if I enter Shroud with this trait now I'm probably only going to touch the #2 (if there are condis to remove), the #5 (if I need Stab), and the #1 (which will be spammed if #2 and #5 are not needed). That's 5 seconds where I feel like I'm wasting time in Shroud when I can do something else better to support. That's 5 seconds of being annoyed that it's absolute crap. That's 5 seconds where you realize that Shroud is horribly built and is the worst part of the elite spec unless you're building Condi, and even then it might be trash compared to your other options.

This wouldn't be a bad idea if Shroud was actually doing good support. Instead it's subpar, with only healing, barrier, and Stability. It should be good enough to where you don't want to leave it willingly, not as bad as it is now to where you never want to use it. Maybe even add a trait that nerfs the damage component but buffs the healing and support and makes them AoE (up to 5 targets). Buff Shroud enough to where Consuming Shadows is a "panic button" you don't want to have to willingly press if you can help it.

I do not agree with the Specter's Scepter nerfs or the change to Consuming Shadows. What you've done is turn Scepter into a single target buffing tool, which nobody is going to use. Why on Tyria would I waste time trying to buff a single ally when I can use another weaponset and actually do damage to the boss? The 3 on Sc/P was the thing that made it worth taking since you were helping multiple allies, not just one. I can say with certainty that with this change, I wouldn't take Scepter in Raids, Fractals, or PvE in general, it's not worth it with this change. Consuming Shadows, the problem with it was never how it made Shroud feel like something you sacrificed, it was the fact that Shroud itself LOCKS YOU OUT OF WELLS, WITH SUBPAR SUPPORT. Almost all the support in Shroud wasn't good enough, so people preferred to sacrifice it simply because that burst heal/barrier was more useful than all of the Shroud skills combined. If I could use Wells in Shroud, I'd use it more. if there was more support than just barriers for your partner, I'd use it more. If there were actual support in there like Aegis, Vigor, Resolution, Protection, etc that effect more than just my Siphon'd ally, I'd use it more. But Shroud itself DOES NOT DO ENOUGH SUPPORT TO WARRANT USE. Fix the support on Shroud, and then maybe it'll be worth using.

It moves you, so yes, that is mobility by definition. Just because it's not as far as you'd like it to be does not mean it's not mobility.

I'd like this as well if it was up to 5 targets. Would be really nice for raids, since you could just target the tank and have your scepter skills both sustain and damage at the same time.