Imba.9451

Oh, it's very clear. I just suggested that you do for all the wrong reasons, wich is, as I put it, bias. Was that not clear? Like I said: Bad faith.

Good thing it's this easy and the other comments on reddit didn't bring up any other issues they had with this at all. /s I am unwilling to simply copy-paste other peoples arguments in that reddit thread, simply because you are unwilling to aknowledge them. It is not my job to course-correct your dishonesty in this regard. That is quite the assumption and clearly shows a bias towards Bobbys position. There is actually ALOT of well put opinions and critique. Here, on youtube, and even on reddit. Acting as if the community is the big bad with nothing substantial to say is, again, dishonest. Well, no need to argue any further if you step down into that rethoric territory. You know what? You are actually correct. You did not personally attack me, the correct semantic would have been "strawmanning". My mistake. Additionally, let me point out that you asking in your first post of this thread for opinions, only to go out this hard against what you (seemingly) wanted to hear is rather unbecoming.

I don't write it off. I said most. And I think that, unless you want to come up in bad faith, it's pretty clear that this is based on my personal experience. There are actually a few anime that I like. They are just very few, as what I get to see else usually devolves into heavy exposition. Feel free to recomend me examples of the contrary, instead of approaching in condescending personal attacks. Also, I called for humility, as "You just don't get it" is rarely a good approach. What is a good approach is a conversation about what was intended and getting into conversation about what of that worked, what didn't and WHY it didn't. This is a strawman and a willfull misrepresentation of what me, and others in that reddit thread, take issue with, as well as falsely portraying to points brought up in the thread and additionally infering that Bobby is right and others are just "kitten". Wich is not really an honest approach to this topic. Please, try to not devolve this conversation into personal attacks, strawmen and bad faith arguments, just because you disagree with my point of view.

1. Who said that this was all I do enjoy? 2. How does this matter in the context of the discussion about the lowest denominator? What exactly are you even aiming at with that comment?

Lets take shows like breaking bad, Better call Saul or Bojack Horseman as examples. These shows have an immense following, for their "show, don't tell" approach and for giving the viewer 2+2 instead of 4. It's not like this doesn't get appreciated in general, but maybe some humility is in order and one has to ask themselves: Why did this not work? I totally agree with you though, the lowest denominator should never be settled for. Thats why I heavily dislike most anime for example, because there rarely is any subtlety at all involved (at least i am not willing to look up the few good ones under the mountains of mediocrity). Also, not only WHAT is offered in the story matters, but also HOW it is presented.

Here, let me quote it for you: "I think some folks are stuck on the idea that the only emotions one can have when playing a game story is "Make me cry about dead character" or "make me mad about bad guy." These releases were meant to go in a different direction but because we used some familiar callbacks I think they assumed we were just retreading old ground instead of reframing the emotional burden on the Commander. I mean, I'm not surprised some folks didn't get it. They weren't looking for it. Hence, me needing to clear up some of the misunderstanding. Some folks did get it, though, so that makes me happy. And for the folks who didn't, that's OK. I hope they're having fun playing the game or trying to peel back the layers of the story but they may not be used to that kind of analytical thinking." Either you haven't read the thread carefully, or you are just intelectually dishonest. Hardly qualifies for decent conversation either way, wich is ironic for someone claiming that other are not capable of having a conversation simply for not agreeing with you. Honestly, I disagree here. Cinders death wasn't more the comanders fault than the others, especially Demi, who we allowed to get herself into danger. Being obsessed with pointing this out is an obsession in itself though. The simple fact remains, that the rushed development of IBS caused heavy cracks in the storytelling and damaged the suspense. Alot. As pointed out in the thread. So, you try to go the ad hominem route now (although "now" is hardly the correct term, considering you have shown a rather condescending attitude on a regular basis by now)? Wasn't your main point of quitting this conversation to stop the loop? Again, glasshouse.

Then maybe read his comments again. It's pretty much what he wrote. And Cinders death was, 100% a result of the commanders decision? Except it's not. (Shall we continue this childish semantics?) And talking about obsession, while keeping to write the same comments about IBS even after all those years? Again, glass house. I am simply a very stubborn person when it comes to disingenious arguing, and again, I won't let it slip that you, repeatedly, refuse to adress points brought up only to regurgitate what has been discussed in every thread as off-topic spam.

As I already wrote, the reasoning for this does seem meek. Also, I take offense on Bobbys "You just didn't get it" attitude. Except thats not what happened. You cherry picked what you answered towards and then I adressed the points you repeated as much as I had to, no matter how hard you tried to get away with simply repeating yourself. Basically everything you try to reproach me for is something you commited yourself, as evident in the linked threat, acting as if the points I made are "debunked", even when they were not, as you failed to adress them repeatedly, and are trying to do so again. You left the conversation, because you lacked the ability to refute my points, and after I made it clear, that you simply repeating yours won't sit with me. Additionally, "arguing" against me for several pages and then trying to claim the high ground by leaving the conversation for not wanting to loop (wich you did many, many times) only to loop it here AGAIN is the worlds thinnest glasshouse.

Then feel free to elaborate what made Cinder a worthy choice. Arguing against me for several pages while willfully ignoring many of the points I made and abandoning the conversation, only to bring up the same points AGAIN in other threads as an off-topic-discussion is, indeed, spam. I kinda get what they tried to fo for then, but it doesn't really feel connected for me. I mean, Chul Moo and the commander are ways apart and these situations do not really seem comparabe, given the context. Couldn't Trahearne fill this gap as well? Or Eir? Or Demi? Arguably, Demi is as much a side character as Cinder in that regard, but arguing to choose Cinder because of not every player might have played the base game does seem like disregarding quality of storytelling.

Funny, because the exact opposite happened, with you disregarding much of what I said, evident for everyone to read up, no matter how hard you try to push your narrative. Please stop spamming about this topic. We already had this conversation, and your comments got deleted. Take the hint. My problem with IBS always was the storytelling aspect first and foremost. But thats a thing for another thread. However, I DO share the sentiment, that cinder wasn't (or at least did not feel) like a deserving choice here. There have been much more important characters to the commander.

Is the phantasm at the end fight always Tybalt? Because my character was with the vigil, and I had Tybalt. Honestly, I am starting to undergo a change of how I feel about this game and franchise: For a long time, I was rather angry about the lackluster writing and wasted potential in the characters. But I slowly feel myself hovering towards insignificance, like I can bring myself less and less to care. And while I bought EoD at release, with a high dose of hopium inhaled, I have absolutely no interest to pick up the new expac as of now. Wich makes me realy ambivalent. I WANT to care about the game. But I also try to tell myself: Let it go, more free time to work on your backlog of games.

We already had this discussion. There is no need to write an "except..." comment whenever someone brings up IBS's writing. Honestly, the exact diagnosis doesn't really matter in the first place. Especially considering, that high commorbidity makes the one exact diagnosis rather impossible in reality. The thing is, that Anet chose to dive into a mental health arc, without proper setup, execution or resolve, while still trying to portray the emotions as very severe and affecting the commander, while also making it a quick filler episode with questionable health advice.

I simply observe what Anet was doing here. And the storybeat consists of 2 major elements: Emotional baggage (wich does include depressive symptoms and signs of PTSD) and a therapeutic proccess to resolve this. And thats where my issues come from. It doesn't really matter if this is because of a magical emotion-demon, what matters, is that it got triggered - like triggers can happen in real life too. And that it got resolved so easily. After some consideration, I do have to concede one thing though: Maybe the simple fact that mental problems are depicted here is helpful for some people to feel represented, as in todays society, it is still heavily stigmatized, even in more accepting communities regarding this like gaming communities (at least from my experience.), and maybe it helps to raise awarness. But as I said in an earlier posed, I do have heightened sensitiviy regarding this based on the experience in my work. I have met several people who actually told me, that they can not watch some movies or shows, because the depitions of mental illness in those felt "artificial" and from a place of no understanding. It alienated them. Obviously, I do not speak for "the people". But while I do realize that creating awarness is important, creating false expectations of a therapeutic proccess does cause harm, as I have had patients that needed months to realize, that their problems are not going to fixed within a few sessions, and that they probably have a very long road ahead of them. Just as with the hardships of racism in society, or general political persecution, I do consider mental conditions a very sensitive topic that needs to be handled with care, else there will be people watching this and thinking "I am going through so much crap, and they make it seem so easy."

Although I do not like the word expert, considering that I work as a clinical psychologist with a Masters degree in a mental health clinic does give me a certain amount of self-certainty when I call the topic at hand "not handled properly". And what I would have done different? I wouldn't have included it, unless I would have planned out a very lenghty story arc with the topic being a reoccuring theme and dominant factor in the character interactions. Like I said, maybe I am wrong. Maybe Anet did exactly that, and what we got now is only the beginning of a all-new character arc for the commander. I doubt it, but the possibility is there. But if this truly is all we get regarding this topic, it would have better not been a topic at all, because it's a cheap throw in and far from what people really go through when suffering from PTSD or Depression. Feel free to disregard my words. After all, I am just some stranger on the internet, not the most trustworthy of sources. But unless you came into contact with mental health issues on a very regular basis, I do not know how to properly convey my point of view on this. But what I see is the attempt to include a mental problems arc without a proper representation of how those affect you and a seriously pink-cotton-candy way of getting over it. Most people affected will be able to tell you: It`snot that easy. Even if they have a functioning social network (wich NEVER is as understanding as displayed in this game in my experience).

The theme chosen by the writers is still there though, caused my magical emotion-demon or not. This was a deliberate decision. And as such, there needs to be a certain respect towards the topic at hand, just as with other sensitive topics as well. And you are right, maybe it will be a reoccuring topic. But based on Anets track record, I a) doubt that they will see it through, as they constantly fling around story threads and end them in a rather rushed way and b) that they will handle it properly even if they do. I hope to be wrong of course. But personally, I think taking topics of mental health and watering them down for a quick story event, that does not take into the reality of this topic is cheap and not only disingenious writing, but also false representation of people who really suffer from those problems - something that gets aknowledged in other ragdards, like sexual orientation or ethnicity. Or to put it simply: Don't write a story about themes and topics you do not know much about.

To assume thats all thats needed to overcome PTSD and/or depression is rather questionable in itself though. It's not like those things are just going to go away and you are a new, mentally healthy person. Thats far from reality. The risk of suffering another depressive episode throughout your life is very high and statistically correlated with the severity of a persons depression. Even WITH proper treatment. Also, the memories stay. Once developed proccesses and mental dynamics are never really going away, they are ultimately part of you. Thats what the term "mental scars" com from. You can learn to build up new, more positive proccesses, learn to identify negatice thought-cycles and adjust against them. But there is always the risk of getting into a sitiation that reactivates your old proccesses. And while having a strong social network is important, very important even, assuming that this is enough, sadly is wishful thinking and not reflective of reality. And yeah, I know, GW2 is fantasy, not reality. But the writers decided to tackle this topic. And since they did, they have to take some responsibility on how to tackle this topic imho. But they way they did here was on the same level of some feel-good anime. I can understand that people might not be as critical of this as I am. But considering I am working in mental health and get to see alot of how alot less than shouldering the worlds fate on your shoulders can impact a person for the rest of it's life, I do have to admit that a certain bias has sharpened my sensitiviy around this topic.

Unless the PTSD-theme get's picked up again and becomes an essential part of the commander, this arc can be considered "resolved" with this chapter. A token-journal entry does not change that. Especially not after all that has been done was "gather some positive memories" and "get out once in a while". I am a psychologist. And this topic has been handled in a very counter-indicative way.

"The commander has PTSD... AAAAAAND IT'S GONE." Basically my feeling towards this. Also with a VERY dangerous message regarding real psychological problem, suggesting that with the power of positive thinking and friendship, everything will be fine.

Name dropping a word doesn't mean it had the same meaning as it has now. I read the thread. It really doesn't sound that the void was hinted at at all.

Wich does, however, cycle back to the topic of this thread: How much in advance was this Void planned? In wich case I tend to lean towards the lazy implementation of a Void-concept, because all the big game have that. Combined with how magic is this games nanomachines (wich is basically a satire on wonky magic systems anyway), I have a hard time of taking this whole topic serious.

Honestly? So far, I am interested. And thats coming from someone who usually goes to the forums in order to express his disappointment with GW2's writing. I am not arguing, that this release is the holy grail and shining vanguard of astounding things to come. Heck, if anything, I am enough of a cynic to wait for the structural cracks to present themselves in order for my nerdy, neckbeardy inner critic to sink my claws in. But what I see right now is potential. The dragons are finally done for, and we get something new, wich could give us new character dynamics, a new threat, and more worldbuilding that doesn't relate to giant lizards. Am I afraid of Anet messing it up? Heck yeah, of course I am. Neither have I forgotten nor gorgiven all of their misssteps. But I am willing to lean back and wait for what is to come - for now. I perceive this update not as a real chapter, but a playable teaser, and I am interested to learn more. This got me hooked way more, that all the dragon related stuff other the past 5 years.

I fully agree with the second part of the comment. I guess the difference in our opinion here comes down to simple preference. Personally, I consider her involvement in the story not only bad in terms of pacing (and "redemption through death" you correctly mentioned), but also that her involvement was kinda unneccesary. Imagine cutting her from the story and investigate the hole this would leave. They'd be rather minor and easily filled by whatever noname addition Anet could have thought of. Imho (like I said, opinion), Mai Trin deserved more, because I think she was an interesting character who drew the short end of the stick. So my main gripe is not only of what is in the story but especially the potential that now isn't.

You argued against me for several pages, wich might lead to the assumption, that what I, and other wrote, was substantive enough to keep engaging with. So this answer is a simple cop-out and borderline ad-hominem. Especially after copypastinmg the same things that lead to our discussion in the first place. So if you have anything substantive that hasn't already been refuted (as seen here: ), please present it.

We already had this discussion about why IBS was lackluster in terms of writing over a year ago. So why do you keep bringing your same points up again, when you backed away from the discussion back then, after you have been unable to adress my (and many others) points about why IBS was badly constructed? I mean, it is common knowledge by now that the whole IBS was in production hell.

I feel exactly the same. Unfortunately, that a trap many fantasy IP's seem to fall into, if they go on long enough. The writers seems to think that the stakes have to be taken up a leven again and again, until we reach eldritch horror and Void elements. Personally, a story about personal stakes, smaller scale, would be fine with me. Not every story needs to evolve around saving the world.