Imba.9451

Thats on you then. You want to see the writing on the wall when there is not even a wall to begin with. Windmills. Don't try to antagonize people this way. Feeling the same. Truth be told, bringing back Mursaat and Livia is blatant fanservice for people like me, so I have to admit that I am very biased here.

You and I seem to read that comment differently it seems. Personally, I see the sentiment of undermining whats there in order to have what the new writers put atop of it seem bigger being called out, based on the debate that give this comment you quoted context, as did the debate about how the narrative around the gods and Balthazar shifted. You seem to read this as: "I think the developer are mean gremlins that create flipcharts in order to determine how to kitten off players most" (exagerrated ofc)

But noone said "Anet has purposefully ruined Guild Wars" (Not in terms of "Nyahaha, we take away everything you like because we feed of your tears!" at least.) Regarding the characters though, it sometimes comes off that way to me, i'll admit that. However, I also argued this to be the case because of new writers wanting to make a name for themselves, instead of relying on the usage of old material. Because after all, it's more impressive having created something new than continuing the work of someone else. And regarding the gods and Balthazar, this pretty much is a confirmation of this. It's also normal for writers to get invested in their characters. However, if the characters that are a players vehicle to experience the game (i.e. the commander) reacts in a totally different way than many players do towards certain characters and their actions, then this creates a dissonance and a "we writers vs pleb player who just don't get it" vibe, intentional or not. And no matter what you think of Braham and Aurene, calling these characters "divisive" is hard to argue against. I do not even argue for GW1 to be the holy grail of storytelling. Heck, it surely is not. It is very often clunky, partly based on being an old game, partly "questionable VA" and partly because of being a "generic" fantasy setting with not much in terms of underlying themes, that hasn't been done a thousand times already. But it was a fun world, based on a few interesing concepts and created the foundation for what came after. Nothing more, nothing less. Everyone who praises GW1 storytelling should replay it. It's not "bad", but it's just "okay", hence I can kinda get behind your seeming sentiment regarding this. What I think makes the difference is the "Dark Souls" effect, GW1 had in some areas. Some things were not explained, left open pieces of information. The world was presented as bigger as the game itself explored it, thus creating a "whats over there" mentality for many people. (Atleast in my case and from what I interpreted many comments I've read of the years). Now, obviously, resolving opens ends will ALWAYS let some people disappointed, because everyone had a differing headcanon (even devs). Deconstructing things people liked in he first game for a "but akshually"-moment, does understandably not feel good for those people. Also, an internal culture war, if I may call it that, does not help. You mentioned the Star Wars sequels, this examplifies what I mean perfectly by how different directors Undid what came in the previous film to take the movies "their way". This is disrespectful to the source material. It feels like the story is about their ego, rather than internal consistency and ultimately, the fans. And, agree or not, this is what I felt over huge portions of PoF, LS4 and IBS.

Correct, you never said that. Thats why I used the word "implied", and went on to put on display how this comes off. Nice try at a comeback, but not fitting here. Also, just because you aknowledged the difference does not mean you aren't showing sign of heavily fixating on pushing back against "haters" in this thread.

This is the crux of the debate. Your comment heavily implies a fixation on the binary differentiation between haters and non-haters. You create strawman-arguments noone even brought up in this thread, but defend them by implying that haters think like that and putting people attacking the story-developments in GW2 next to those haters. You are fighting windmills. And the irony is, you do so in a thread on wich people aknowledge SotO's writing, wich clearly is not GW1. I can understand that senseless hate as you describe it is annoying. But you should attack it where it appears, not where you assume it.

Just pushing this thread to bring awarness to the issue.

I do remember this as well, but I dunno if that information came with the base game or was added later, as a way of adressing the issue with duct-tape and bubblegum.

And here I am, thinking that this problem was on me for not being a native english speaker. It's nice to see that others feel the same way, too. It kinda equals out in Metas and general events, when doing them repeatedly, but the first one or two times doing them always stresses me out, because on the one hand, I want to understand what to do and react to whats happening on my screen, and on the other, I want to understand the dialogue. It's a lot of cognitive load sometimes and not the best player experience, especially when I am invested in whats happening.

This is my last answer to you, unless you prove that you can answer me without putting words in my mouth to create strawmen, trying to belittle me or generally don't engage in a discussion that isn't in bad faith. Balthazar: You clearly disregarded everything I said, and I am not in the mood of repeating myself for nothing. GW1 Content: My point was, that everything GW1 related got gutted quite unsatisfactory, while everything new got pushed. It`s simple: open storybeatsh do not feel good. And again, stop putting words in my mouth. Braham: You can put that hater stamp on haters. But don't engage into a discussion with the pre-conceived notion that everyone speaking badly of this character is a hater, this discrediting them. Thats intellectually dishonest. Also, you argument is weird: Is it not allowed to talk about character, if they are not part of the story anymore? Also, he lost the bow because he got drunk. Despite the commander telling him to be carefl and stop drinking. All in all, he is not a likeable character. Therapy or not. Because having problems is not an excuse to be a jerk.

I'd rather float around as a Muursaat.

Balthazar: He was part of a group of god who brought humans into Tyria, fostered and watched over them and then we are supposed to believe that he just doesn't give a crap about them anymore, only the destruction of dragons matters? If the only explanation for this given is "people change", then thats a rather bad one. How about we have Marjory and Kasmeer as antagonists in the next expansion, because "people change"? GW1: You are building a strawman here. That was (again) not my point. My point was, that many things fans liked and loved about GW1 was tossed away. I am not against bad ending, but the way they tried to put their own stamp on the franchise by casting away the old did sting. I never was a Joko fan, but the way got Aurene Es Machina'd, right at the moment he started to become interesing was more than disappointing and a waste of a character. Dragonvoid: Short setup, rushed execution, lackluster resolution. To say it worked within it's boundaries is like saying that next to a snail, a sloth is the fastest animal in the room. Braham: Your attempts of putting a hater stamp on everyone who dislikes Braham is poisoning the well. How does he make up for Season 3? By saying sorry? Shall I insert the south park meme here? And in IBS, he led many people to their deaths. He lost his mothers bow, because he got drunk, wich resulted in the commander getting shot with that exact same bow. And Braham got kinda written into the backline, because Anet starts to realize, that he isn't very popular. But then again, they seem to try a new approach with SotO, wich I really like. Less Marvel-jokes, more actuals characters.

Make Elementalists Elementals permanent summons in PvE. Having to wait for CD after mounting is REALLY interrupting the flow of play. Maybe buff their stats a little too (at least the normal ones), as this way, you wouldn't be able to summon multible elementals.

Regarding Balthazar: That was not my point. The way he behaved wich got him kicked from the six was not like the Balthazar established it GW1. Regarding GW1 characters: Thats an explanation, but having an explanation doesn't mean it cannot be mean-spirited, or perceived as such. The overarching theme up to Soto did everything that came in after GW1 vanilla rather dirty and tried to put their own stamp on the franchise, by undermining existiting storybeats (or downright gutting them) and building up their own thing. Regarding your comment towards IBS: I am not talking about IBS alone. Yes, IBS was the absolute low-point, but that doesn't mean other stuff wasn't executed terribly as well. Like Dragonvoid. Regarding Braham: Some things got adressed, yes. But rather in a "that wasn't nice, but I am sure you will be doing better in the future"-way. No real repercussions, no real "wtf were you thinking, what you did was reckless, killed many people and put so much more in great danger! Eir would be effing disappointed!"-moment. It was adressed, but not adequatly, and yes, that IS the games fault - not the players, for happily eating up what they were served. Becaise I can shoot this arrow right back and say that people just deciding that Brahams actions got adressed and therefor, all is well are not looking at what he did and caused seriously. Oh, and what I completely forgot to mention: Gyala delves, and the terrible take on mental health problems, together with Bobby Steins "Some people won't get it" response regarding criticism, wich still doesn't sit well with me and puts me in some dissonance, because besides that, I do like Bobby. Luckily, this topic was handled alot better in Soto with Zojja.

And with this sentence, you can basically put into doubt EVERYTHING that is conveyed to the player via ingame information. "We humans breathe air!" <- not scientific, because it relies on us believing that the character saying this has proven, via scientific methods, that they indeeed, breath air. There is no way of entering a discussion with you an this basis, as you have poisoned the well beyond repair. I am out.

Balthazar is basically a completely different character in GW2, and his actions do not align with what we got told about him in GW1. Thats probably the biggest and most obvious thing to point out. But then are more little things, that have always bugged me over the years. Like a big chunk of GW1 characters meeting a terrible fate. Joko being Aurene Ex machina'd. Ascalon still not being resolved. To me, it is very clears that the direction of the story went extremly headless over the years, with no clear direction other than: "On we go to the next big boi!" until even the devs seemed exhausted by this and rushed things to an end with Jormag and primordus, and cobbled together a quick story around bubbles. And let's not forget how the game treats Braham as a dear friend to the commander and wants the player to accept him into the group, when the things he does are downright terrible. A clear dissonance about what the game wants you to feel and what is actually shown. Maybe thats why I like Soto so much. Because it's a fresh start, and not written into a corner like the Elder Dragons.

Honestly, I feared about Mabon dying from the moment we met him. He was just too good. And we all know what happens with good, caring and powerful Mentor figures in fiction. While I, as a certified Mursaat-fanboy do not like him being killed off, his character was way too one-dimensional to work with any further, unless given a proper spotlight and a big amount of screentime. He could be summed up in 2 words: Mursaat redemption. And even though there is a sting in this, I am willing to accept this, as long as they keep working with what they established here: First, that there are still Mursaat existing, probably hiding somehwere and second, that they are not the bloodthirsty, one dimensional bad guys from GW1 anymore. And given that the game greatly tries to imply this, I am actually hopeful that we see more of them in the future, with Mabon being a blatant story device to tell the player: They are potential, powerful allies.

Your argument relies alot on "I think" and "he could", despite the game blatantly stating otherwise. Also, you contradict yourself. " I strongly doubt that he would have any time for subterfuge" while aknowleding that he was disguised as Lazarus doesn't go well together. Everything the games gives us to work with implies or openly states, that Balthazar is not in his prime anymore. Wich obviously still makes him a very powerful being, but not on the level of a God.

Truth be told, I didn't expect this. Ever from Jokos death onwards, I considered GW2 to be in a declining stake. The story was aimless, besides "let's get done with the dragons", and you seemed to throw alot of stuff on the wall to see what sticks. It was painful to see the world of Guild Wars, wich I spent way too much time in as a teenager, stray from the potential that the world of Tyria held. Thats why I planned on not playing the expansion. But then, based on some recommendations, I did. And I am glad I did. As it turned out, going into a new direction was exactly what the story needed (At least for me). I liked the setup of the new villains and how the story doesn't feel rushed. I like the new (and returning) characters. I like how you tap into setups that have been in the game for years (or in some cases, since GW1 launch) and continue to expand that threat instead of cutting off loose ends and only throwing in new stuff that gets resolved instantly (cough, void, cough). The story progression feels decently paced. Still a little too fast for my taste, but overall okay. I was invested. I read the journals ingame, instead of on the wiki, because i wanted to know more about the characters and their backstories. I genuinly felt invested in Zojjas character arc (even though it's semingly very inspired by Frodo from LOTR). Her pain felt relatable and brought a critical lens into the picture, from wich we could see the worlds inhabitants, and the downsides of at least Asuran society, instead of "haha funny technobabble gnomes". I know, bringing back Zojja and Mursaat is blatant fanservice. And that won't sit well with everyone. But it does for me. And despite not forgetting the low points of GW2's story (IBS, wasted deaths of Joko, Lazarus and Mai Trin, drAGoNVoiD and everything Braham touched, talked to or was ever involved with), I wanna go out of my was that I, who has repetedly posted my mostly more than negative opinions on the game in this forum, am positively suprised and somehow (even if still a little cautiously) optimistic for the future. It`s been a while since I was excited for what comes next, rather than just playing because I was with this franchise from the beginning. I know, this Addon was just a setup. It could go anywhere from here. But I dare to believe again. Chapeau.

I said it for years: Just because the Eye of Janthir was gone doesn't mean the Mursaat are as well. Only the ones on Tyria. Glad my stoic Mursaat-fanlove was rewarded with some fanservice.

Again: Reading. Not just padding out gametime in this one instance, but by several "gameplay" section, that are ultimately busywork, wich adds up.

In general, taking mental health as a huge center point for the current story and resolving it by some exposition and positive thinking is severly playing down REAL psychological problem people have. Imho, it's a topic to be handled with care, and not to be abused for a quick story event. One might argue, that this creates awareness for mental health, but it does so in a very watered down way that I have a hard time to aknowledge this aspect.

Honestly, I do believe you. I believe that you read them. Based on your behaviour so far, I do assume that you declare everything that does not fall in line with your or Bobbys point of view as "not well constructed". Because to me, there are quite a few comments in that thread, that disagree with Bobby in a respectful manner. Handwaving those away is, once again, intelectually dishonest. You clearly are not. You created this thread and continue to confront people for their differing opinions in a condescending and at times downright vicious way. May I remind you of Jessica Price? Also, this whole ordeal is not a binary black and white thing or benevolent or malicious. Because after all, everyone is just human. And everyone takes pride in what they create. Getting attacked (or feeling attacked) over this, can cause the need to defend themselves, to explain themselves, and do take out the credit of any claims against what they have created. Thats normal. Thats natural. And I do also not believe that Bobby is acting with malicious intend. Considering he does ignore many of the things brought up and goes along with accusations against those, that dislike the release, it certainly does not feel like those comments come from a "benevolent" reason to engage with the community, truly being interested in exchange. Else, this could and should have been written different. Again, Bobby ignored alot of points brought up, and generally only answered to very short posts, instead of the longer ones, that elaborated on the issue. And making the assumption of benevolence is quite charged with an emotional groundwork. Especially given the context of this thread. Thats quite a large shift of the goalpost here, as that is obviously not what I wrote and something you make up entirely, while also showing off that condescending attitude (again) towards everyone who disagrees with you by implying that they have "lower standards" than you. You are biased for disregarding everything that goes against your opinion and for making up the assumption of benevolence about someone that agrees with you. The lack of critical engagement is pretty much the definition of bias in this regard.

I felt pretty much the same. Imho Yao was in there, because Anet wants to push EoD characters. And the Tengu too. probably, but she was not really a significant character until now. I would even have prefered Faren. (But then again: Faren vs Canach would be WAY too much of a difficult choice to make here.) Also, and thats obviously a very personal way to look at it, but I have problems to imagine the commander as a real "character", rather than a walking plot device that does anything more than bashing heads in and solving problems. Part of that comes from the fact that the commander has no name, wich creates a certain distance. I can't really put my finger on it, but the commander feels like an "uncanny" character: Kinda fleshed out, but also kinda not. I lack the ability to express myself more articulate here.

Since you really want to press the issue (and in another thread that is): You simply ignore the arguments brought forward in that reddit threat, and simply don't aknowledge them. Wich I already said. But, as I also said, it is not my job to quote them here, only for you to declare them "not well put". Calling Bobby "benevolent" and arguing with the communities issues with the release does, indeed, show a bias, simply for the fact that you can not know that Bobby did post this out of "benevolence". This is an emotional assumption you put in there, wich you are free to do of course, but does not entitle you of declaring him "correct" though.

I think the person stated this as a demonstration of how this release was filled with alot of pointless pandering in order to stretch out game time, as can be assumed based on the second half of his post.