AliamRationem.5172

It's exactly like you say. I have nightmare aspect, I love all of the other CMs and do them pretty regularly, but this fractal just isn't very enjoyable and it definitely feels like a roll of the dice because the only way it's acceptable time vs. reward is if you 1-shot. If anything goes wrong and you have to start over, the reward simply isn't worth the time investment. Even then I still might feel inclined to go through with it if it were as fun and interesting as the other fractals, but it really isn't. The mechanics are annoying and they just repeat the same things over and over until you manage to whittle down the boss's gigantic healthbar. I don't understand the obsession with mechanics that force you to constantly move away from the boss. It feels ridiculously punishing to melee builds and they keep using more and more of this in newer designs. Enough already! You didn't need to rely on these cheap tricks to design interesting fractal bosses before. 98 and 99 CM are some of the best boss fights in the game with lots of phases and mechanics, but they didn't have to kick melee in the nuts repeatedly to make it happen. The eyes. Yeah, they're punishing. They happen so frequently and if you fail you die. It's easy to miss one out of the hundred you need to avoid during this fight, even if you know the mechanics. I don't know what to do about that. Making them not kill you would trivialize this fight to the point where you couldn't call it a CM anymore.

His cele vindi build from 3 months ago showed a 54 second kill time on mushroom queen. That's <15k DPS, which is great for a build that has enough sustain to actually out-heal/barrier a champion that can kill a full DPS build pretty much instantly when her area effects explode. Now if he dropped some of that sustain (he's using an entire trait line devoted to nothing but sustain in addition to cele gear!) I have no doubt he could hit 20k on a cele vindi build. But then it might not be the "best" for soloing legendary bounties and such, which is what that build is designed for. I'm not saying cele is low damage with the right build (Here's my cele weaver doing a champ solo at 24.7k DPS!). But can I solo legendary bounties with this build? Maybe an easy one like corpserazor? But for most I would take more sustain and for some I would need a lot more sustain. And can this build keep up with bursty power builds for trash clearing and such? Absolutely not. It's still a condi build with about 75% of its damage coming from conditions that take a few seconds to get going. It might be fast enough (for me it is), but that just illustrates the point that this comes down to priorities. What is "best" for soloing legendary bounties may also be "good enough" for everything else or you might say "I don't care about soloing legendary bounties, so I don't need to run salvation trait line and use cele gear on my vindicator."

More a problem of weaver being a concept that they did away with. It used to be part of the plan to have specs with specific purposes like druids that could only heal or weavers that can only DPS. But they tossed that out the window when they decided every spec should fill a role. Now weaver is one of the only specs left with no role. No boons for weaver because...no reason at all. The specs that have boons are all allowed to DPS and have utility in their specs. So maybe instead of weaver being the hands down best DPS, they just need to give it some of the stuff it wasn't supposed to have to bring it up to date with the current design.

Much of the debate in this thread comes down to mismatched priorities. You're talking about soloing legendary bounties. This is an activity that most players simply don't care about and never engage in. For the average player interested in such things, builds like Hizen's salvation cele vindi are attractive options because you almost can't die playing that build. But even Hizen himself is getting <15k DPS with it. What do you think average Joe is managing? A lot of players prefer to deal more damage and don't consider legendary bounty solo-level sustain a priority at all.

That's not intelligent and not interactable. It's as uninteresting as giving enemies more health and more problematic as it serves as a penalty on conditions where none is needed.

My issue with templates is that I feel like they should just have every part of a build in one button. Traits, gear, dyes, visibility toggles, mount skins. All of it.

The problem with "intelligent" enemies is that it can just be annoying. Cleansing conditions, for example. It would be smart of enemies to cleanse if they have the ability. But if every trash mob can cleanse conditions, then condition damage becomes even less effective when it's already at a disadvantage for clearing trash mobs. Dodging attacks would also be a smart behavior. But now you have to go through the same dance with every trash mob, baiting out its dodges before you can kill it. Immobilizing melee attackers. How great would it be to get constantly spammed with immobilize by the endless stream of trash mobs you face in open world? Hope you like ranged combat only, because melee just ain't worth it! A better way, in my opinion, is the HoT model. You're usually faced with a mix of enemies. There's nothing intelligent about their behavior, but they can force the player to intelligently approach the encounter with the various threats they present.

You don't need advanced gliding there. Jump through the hole in the tree to access an updraft, glide to the center updraft, then glide over toward the updraft to the right then toward the hero point on the cliff.

You need to gain experience in HoT maps to progress HoT masteries. It may help you to know that the night meta occurs on the ground layer and when the canopy bosses spawn choppers descend to lift players up at all controlled camps (marked by gold icons on the map). This is a good source of XP.

Welcome to the jungle! You'll want to unlock basic gliding, updrafts, and bounce mushrooms first. These 3 skills will allow you to reach most locations and generally make navigation easier. Pay attention to the layer transition icons such as ramps, cave exits, etc. They have arrows indicating which layer to switch to. They can also give you an idea of how to reach another layer if you're struggling. Having said that, don't get too caught up reading the map. A lot of the objectives are not accessed directly, so keeping your eyes open is more useful than using the map. Can I get on top of that vine? Where does that bounce mushroom or updraft take me? Can I glide to that ledge over there?

I love the idea of combo interactions, but I feel they're in a weird place where I'd like them to have more impact in solo play where your fields are limited but they feel just tacked on in group play where you're always standing in a field. I don't know what to do about that. Maybe split the effects to make them more significant when you combo your own fields?

Except nothing works the way you seem to think it does. If it worked the way you wanted it to, celestial would be completely worthless and nobody would use it except boosted players who don't know any better, which is what the change to celestial booster stats was intended to address in the first place.

That's just it. It is not specifically about celestial. If you removed celestial today all of the issues you claim are symptomatic of the problem would still exist. How can celestial be the root of the problem?

So then if Hizen solo'd a CM fractal in something other than celestial gear, presumably that would also be a problem for balance? Because he did that years ago, you know? Do you think maybe it's builds like pre-sustain nerf scourge and current salvation vindi that are simply impossible to kill if you slap some healing power on their gear that are the problem? Do you really think Hizen couldn't solo CM 100 in another set with healing power on it? You keep insisting it's celestial that is the problem while ignoring literally everything else.

Did you know that I can outrun a centaur?

That's pretty much what I was thinking. In any event, we're a long way from "OMG celestial is the best for everything! Nerf it!"

In the case of 100 CM on salvation vindi, it's both the fact that the build itself has an entire traitline devoted to sustain that benefits from healing power and the mechanics of the fight being both condition heavy and featuring damage that ignores armor. Thus trailblazer/dire wouldn't necessarily be a great option for this specific scenario. That doesn't invalidate your overall point. It just means celestial was probably a better option for this particular fight and with that particular build.

Any idea what the DPS looks like in solo play with that build? Just for the sake of comparison, as best I can tell 15-20k is the ballpark for celestial condi builds in solo play.

They added relics with SotO though, so it's probably still somewhere around there.

Can almost guarantee the bleed on chill version is going to deal majority damage from conditions and more damage than if you don't focus on conditions, but I am not experienced with it, so prove me wrong. I want to see a cele power build beat a cele condi build in damage. It'll be educational either way.

Call me crazy, but I've never seen or heard of a celestial power build. They're all condi builds because the power and ferocity are too low (and on most classes the weapons you would use that have conditions to take advantage of cele's hybrid nature have lower coefficients than full power weapons). Sure, %dmg is better than nothing, but you wouldn't, for example, run a fire/air ele build with celestial stats, scholar runes, etc. because you'll do more damage if you run fire/earth with trapper rune and the usual trimmings for a condition build. Am I wrong? Can you show me a cele power build that deals great damage? When I try it out on my weaver I easily do more damage with a condi build. Am I doing it wrong?

Can't say I've encountered this. Certainly, I've seen people use skyscale for tagging, but what's the point of tagging if you don't complete the event because nobody helped?

I imagine if you asked Hizen he would tell you that salvation vindi is the most durable build today, which is why he uses it for the most difficult challenges.

I think I'd blame vindicator for that, not celestial stats.

That is not an issue specific to cele, though. A number of stat sets are considered so niche as to be almost entirely useless. Cele is better than these sets, but so are a bunch of more useful sets that aren't cele.