Zephoid.4263

Burning is fine. Only 2 classes inflict more than a few stacks of burning: ele and guard. The idea that the problem came from the switch from duration to intensity is absurd. Burning before the switch was a joke on so many levels. It was non-functional as a condition and non-functional in any pvp setting. Guard applies burn, vuln, immob, and cripple. Thats about it. It applies very few of those in pulsing except burning. Almost all the burning stacks from guard come from F1, meaning that hes still hitting you with the same abilities he would if he was power. FB has a few more condi abilities, but pays for them in cast time. Disregarding FBs (still) absurd level of boon support, burn fb is really pretty tame in terms of burst ability. Ele inflicts a bit more bleeding and cripple, but relies a lot more on fields to stack burning. Ele also only inflicts burning in fire, where it doesn't get access to most of its other condis. Beyond a few troll FA one shot builds, ele has always gravitated towards condi builds. Any nerf to burn really hurts viable ele builds. And lets be honest here, ele hasn't been a dominant force since core celestial years ago. Condi clear is a part of literally every remotely competitive build. Its also very easy to change into more condi cleanse in 2v2. Condi is currently slightly stronger than power builds after the nerf, but i really don't see how thats a problem. Power has been the go-to for almost every class with only small exceptions. The change to invuln to stop condi ticks made the strongest abilities in the game now counter even more and lead to most condi builds getting pushed out of the game. Now that condi is the go-to everyone is up in arms? Is a switch in meta really that hard to handle? Its not like condi skills are hitscans with no animations, you still have to get hit by everything that inflicts burning.

Played teamed up vs another team todayDH+FB vs Reaper (me)+power DD. First 2 rounds we lost pretty hard. I switched to staff on reaper to counter aegis spam with unblockable (yeah, staff really sucks with power, but read on).Next 3 rounds consisted of playing keep-away. Both of them would move together, so as long as I kept disengaging and re-engaging, the fb would expend all the stun breaks. The DD would keep them from fully chasing me as he would S2 engage and disengage. The last 3 rounds each almost went to time as we poked and disengaged from them until we could catch and cc chain one of them. It was really an interesting match. It really showcased the strength of FB throwing everything they have into a short fight, but having difficulty sustaining past their mantras last charge (and tome CDs).

FB were always the best anti-condi class in the game. Even with the nerfs, that hasn't changed. Power was always their weakness, and that was pretty heavily nerfed. Most of FBs heals are ~2k. While they can keep them up for a long while, they are rather small and require a bunch of cast times. I have had success with zerker reaper. You still put out a ton of damage, have access to a good quantity of stun breaks. That a lot of your attacks also throw out conditions like poison and vuln is a good plus so you don't have to invest animation time into knocking down their condi cleanses. Focus 5 hits for ~3k and pulls off 3 boons, dagger 3 and axe 3 both do 1 (GS is a trap on reaper. Way too slow and damage isn't competitive anymore. Shroud is all your main damage and dagger gets you back into it faster). FB also don't have a lot of on-demand stun breaks and its not too hard to overwhelm them with cc. Most are taking Renewed Focus, but that has a very visible animation and you can CC the instant it ends. If they can't get into F3 and cast a 1 (about a 3/4s overall cast time) then you can keep them pinned down.

Rally is fine. Can you imagine how miserable it would be if you and an opponent downed each other and flailed at each other until one is dead, only for the other to then have to wait ~20s to get back up. In some locations, it would be better to die. That would be completely miserable. I would agree that downstate mechanics should be balanced. I don't mind each class having unique effects, but necro and ranger are inordinately strong. Signet rally is fine. People complain about it only in 2v2. Signet of undeath takes like 1/3 of your hp to use and ppl still complain.

Necro player here. Strongly agree with this statement. I was hitting 8k litch form autos earlier. Completely bonkers. Even better on reaper since you can get quickness for a few secs with shroud and 100% crit with devastate defenses. Reaper is my counter to the core necro meta but countering necro with necro is a poor design. Down state has been a problem for a while, especially with multiple necros. Last Rites+necros downstate heal on 1 meas they can pick themselves up fast even without assistance. With assistance, its almost instant until you get a few downs. Most ppl didn't notice too much because necros has so many counters before. Heres hoping.

Either this is a troll post, or the writer has the brains of an actual troll. Either way, not worth debating.

I really don't know how to respond to this. As a stated guard main, i'm well aware of both the animations and abilities of the class. The ability CCs at the start of the flame condensing animation. Thats a stated fact, not a l2p issue. Its one of the best CCs available to guard, on par with shield 5 but on 1/3 the cd(compare to spirit hammer for the lols). An 8s cd for a cc like this really isn't appropriate.

Instant cast F skills mainly. Guard also has a lot more build holes than a lot of other classes before trait lines. You have the lowest base hp of any class, but the meditation heal offsets that a lot. You have a lot of stab problems and pretty poor stun breaks, but Virtues gives stun breaks and stab. The meditation heal makes the two medi stun breaks viable. Without any trait lines, guard is probably the worst class. The cost of giving up a trait line is a bit more pronounced for guard, but i agree that the class in its current form fills a few too many holes for that tradeoff. Core guard has a LOT more damage than fb, but gives up all the group support. Guard doesn't have the damage of war, and core guard ends up being a mostly worse war. That being said, if FB is nerfed too far, guard doesn't have another competitive spec atm. Maybe that changes during the patch, but we will see. DH got punted almost instantly after its (not even OP) release. Hammer core guard has been nerfed into oblivion and is getting a HUGE nerf after the next patch. All the other core guard builds might be viable, but there really wasn't anything spared the nerf hammer from their builds. We will see, but i could very easily see them nerfing fb too low and guard not having any presence at all.

The problem isn't the number of tome skills. The problem is that specific tome skills are so powerful alone. -F2 5 is completely absurd, easily the best condi cleanse ability in the game. The heal boost could have been a skill on its own and been viable.-F1 3 is an awesome interupt with no ability to dodge. F4 is good dps, even with no condi damage. F5 is good when it can be shared and can be precast.-F3 4 is 4s of resistance on pulse in an completely absurd radius. At half that radius it would be amazing. 5 is every defensive buff you can think of smashed into one ability for good duration and 600 radius. Come on, how was this supposed to be balanced. The rest of the abilities? Meh. Most of the time, sitting in tome after using those specific skills is either a dps or healing loss, depending on what you are speced for. As a dps fb, your F2 1 is anemic and heals for like 700. Yeah, its spammable with quickness, but every other class can do more than double that in just auto attacks. F1 burning is good if you are condi, but awful if you are power. throwing stab around is nice with F3 1, but not great with only 1 short duration stack and shortish radius. Imo, nerf the skills named above. Renewed Focus is fine. The individual skills are too strong and are a big contribution to boon spam. FB/guard main

this is GM trait and should be treated as such.compare it to escapist fort on thief, that realistically will not only proc more often, but also heal, but also is not a freaking grandmaster. Better to compare it with DH Hunter's Fortification. DH has very few ways to proc aegis, even fewer on a reasonable cd. Having no conditions isn't something that happens in PVP very often, with even power abilities inflicting conditions. It is pretty much only useful with weapon skills that conditionally block attacks (shield 5, sword 3), but even then has an ICD so it itsn't procing much.There are a LOT of bad GM traits, this isn't even close to the bottom of the barrel. Again, IH is so overloaded that it almost doesn't matter what you made this, its not going to be taken all that often.

In most other classes, cleansing 2 condis every 10s on demand would seem reasonable. Effectively guard's lesser smite condition on a shorter cd. That IH is such an overloaded skill means that EM probably won't get taken all that much (though i do expect the meta to shift more to condi).

Elusive Mind: This trait no longer stunbreaks or inflicts exhaustion. Increased the number of conditions cleansed from 1 to 3 in PvE, and to 2 in PvP and WvW.

All I'm going to mention is if you had a problem with backstab, DJ or mes burst you should have a problem with the above. Of course necro had a problem with DJ, DE is the perfect counter to necro and there is little necro can do to counter. Mes burst rarely hits for 20k. If it doesn't OHK me, i at least have a chance to react. Backstab much the same.25k maul from stealth? Yeah, no chance to react. Also on a class that has the unique ability to chose between range burst and melee burst. If they stealth, they can just as easily stay in longbow as close with gs. If that thief or mesmer stealths, you usually can guess the engagement range and drop poison cloud.

https://imgur.com/d6vLOhoFrom stealth.Because 'just dodge' wasn't enough of a meme, now you don't even get to do that.

I could see burn guard being a thing, but i think core medi guard is dead. The nerf to literally every meditation in addition to the heal on trait is going to be really, really rough. My real complaint is with a lot of the underplayed traits and utilities getting HUGE nerfs for literally no reason. No one played them, why are they getting hit. Core guard already had a very small selection of viable utilities (all but 1 shout is crap, spirit weapons have only sword, consecrations are bad, only medis were really playable). I expected all the meta skills and probably most of the mantras to get significant nerfs, which they did. The sheer scope of nerfs with literally not a single buff is... rough. I was really hoping for this patch to give SOMETHING back to all those underplayed skills, maybe even shift the meta so they are relevant in their current state. Instead they get more nerfs. Its really beating the dead horse.

With the patch notes its really depressing how many non-competitive builds and weapons are getting nerfed. Whats the point? How are these correlated to any stats? Was this literally done with a dart board? I'm looking at guard. FB needed nerfed, we all can agree. But core guard and DH are getting shafted hard too, and it ways that don't even touch FB. Weapon damage across the board was expected, but its going to be really hard for to build anything viable. Hunter's Determination: Increased cooldown from 90 seconds to 300 seconds -A FIVE MIN cooldown? Come on man. NOTHING else in the game has this type of cooldown. Monk's Focus: Reduced base heal from 1960 to 1470-Well that probably kills one of the only viable core builds, along with the nerfs to EVERY SINGLE MEDITATION except the elite. Hammer of Wisdom: Reduced power coefficient from 1.2 to 0.01. Increased ammo recharge from 25 seconds to 30 seconds-Hah.. funny. Did anyone actually take this. Ever? Might have been borderline viable with the stab nerfs, but they really hammered the spirit hammer. "Hold the Line!": Reduced protection duration from 6 seconds to 4 seconds"Stand Your Ground!": Increased cooldown from 30 seconds to 45 seconds. Reduced target cap from 10 to 5.-Wait, someone actually used Hold The Line in a single PVP game? Isn't it in the running for one of the worst utilities in the game? Stand your ground was the only viable shout in the guard lineup, now nerfed. Mighty Blow: Increased power coefficient from 1.75 to 1.82. Increased cooldown from 4 seconds to 10 seconds-Oh god, its dead Anet. Stop beating the hammer with the nerf hammer. It was barely a viable weapon at its best and now has got like 4 rounds of nerfs. Literally every single hammer skill got nerfed this patch. "Receive the Light!": Reduced initial self-heal coefficient from 0.8 to 0.4. Reduced allied pulse heal coefficient from 0.6 to 0.2-Nice, 2.25s cast time heal getting nerfed. In addition to all the healing abilities on staff, the traits that provide healing power, and every source of concentration. Cleansing Flame: Reduced power coefficient per strike from 0.4 to 0.28-Ah yes, the ability where you breath fire on your target... that doesn't burn until the last strike... gets its power ratio nerfed. How is a .4 coef a problem? Also,4/6 traps got nerfed5/6 mantras got nerfed Someone REALLY didn't like guard. There was NOTHING given back in those patch notes. Every single touch was a nerf.

Most of the time you are in a 2v2, or 3v2 and a ranger comes along and 12k+ccs you from 1200 range, most likely downing you instantly. Much like DE from years ago, you have to keep an eye out and a dodge ready for them at all times.Just like we keep our nose out to sniff the mass invis Mesmer who's ready to unleash their full burst in the middle of a fight? What's wrong with ranger ding so with plenty of time for a player to realise and react? Normally the reasoning is that 1500 range means you are a lot safer from most enemy retaliations, but mesmer's ease of obtaining evade and distort kind of invalidates that point. However the problem with mesmer is for another day. For ranger, PBS->rapid fire full chain is ~1.5s. Since most forms of evasion don't work when CC'd, its essentially stun break or die coming from long range. People complain about stab uptime, but this kind of thing is the reason its necessary. If people want boon uptime to come down, CC into killed before standing up is the poster child of what has to go. I don't think mesmers should be getting the pass either, but Anet found mesmer burst near sacrosanct.

I said literally nothing about chasing or gap closing. I am aware of how to gap close on a ranger who stands there on the same elevation as you and doesn't respond. The problem becomes when multiple elevations are involved, the ineffectiveness of blinks up cliffs (and the straight inability for some to function), or when... you know... the ranger actually responds to any of those things you mentioned. Having access to 1500 range and excellent swiftness uptime means you chose your battles, especially on those open maps. Picking high ground often denies them 1/2 of those abilities you mentioned. PBS and some slight ledge spacing means they get knocked right back down if they try to shadowstep up (unless they precast stab before shadowstepping, normally a bad idea). Nice that you mentioned stealth as a 'counter' to rangers. Smokescale (one of the more commonly used pets) gives you access to your own stealth. I had this wonderful time trying to get outside my own spawn as a ranger sits behind a pole, stealths, and 25k mauls me out of the game. Troll build? Yeah, probably. But on our entire team, only the mirage had a viable chance vs him. Core guards get obliterated by rangers as their hp pool is tiny, judge's intervention is on a 36s cd, and they have no access to swiftness. Your long winded 'explanations' are laughable series of events that happen only in theorycrafting. Most of the time you are in a 2v2, or 3v2 and a ranger comes along and 12k+ccs you from 1200 range, most likely downing you instantly. Much like DE from years ago, you have to keep an eye out and a dodge ready for them at all times. Are they beatable? Yes. There are a few hard counters to ranger, but that isn't the point. The point is that high damage long range burst has been consistently nerfed in the past. DE and DH both got their long range weapons heavily toned down. For some reason they have given ranger a pass. I think that is a mistake.

Honestly, monthly changes to the meta would probably keep PVP fresh for me nearly indefinitely. Doesn't matter what the meta is, i'll find something i like. I have my pet classes, but i've moved off them after balance changes before and i can do so again.

"just los" would be great, but a lot of these maps are designed with very large open areas that have to be traversed. Either cap or areas leading to cap. Keep needing to LOS? You have to leave cap and let it get decapped. Foefire mid and capricorn mid are both great examples. 'wait 10s' is completely absurd comment, as a point can be decapped and capped again in that time period. You also outline one of the big problems with rangers. Their exorbitant damage output at range compared to literally every other class. No one else comes close except maybe deadeye (and they are immobile for the cost of most of that damage). Almost every other class needs to be in melee or they can't use 95% of their class features. Only thief and mesmer have any chance of engaging another class at range with the hope of killing them. Every other class has such anemic ranged weapons and so many class features that require close proximity that they have to close. Ranger longbow is so stacked with non-conditional raw damage and cc that its absurd when compared to other ranged weapons. If they aren't going to buff other ranged weapons, ranger needs a hit somewhere on longbow. I'm plat every season and i don't particularly have a problem with rangers as guard, but playing scourge before the nerf there was literally nothing you could do. Their only defense, corrosive poison cloud, was changed to a block instead of projectile destruction. I find all the zerker burst longbow rangers to be a nuance more than an actual positive influence on game wins. Much the same as old DE was before it got nerfed into the ground. Everyone complained, but it wasn't super dominant at higher rankings. My biggest problem with ranger: why is Point Blank Shot a knockback at 1200? look at the words that are using to explain the skill. Why is this not a 600 range skill or why is the knockback removed beyond a certain range?

Um... Do you realize how bad infusion can get? Can you imagine fighting this: How the hell would you see animations?

This is just trolling. Don't bother to try to argue with this.

You people are kitten at reading.I said thief doesnt have bad sustain, I said they have strong healing skill.And they have good passive that keep them healthy.Then guys like you appear WELL OTHER CLASSES HAVE GOOD HEALS TOOOO.NO kitten sherlock, thats my point. Thiefs sustain is not bad. Numbers aren't in a vacuum. You compare them against other classes to get a benchmark of good and bad. Thief has very mediocre sustain WHEN COMPARED TO OTHER CLASSES. because what the kitten else are you going to compare it against. Yes, they have those abilities. No, they are not very relevant as their numbers aren't high enough to make significant differences in pvp. Daredevil has reasonable sustain due to evade frames, not heals. Core thief and Deadeye have very little sustain. What are you talking about, you can make thief builds with perma regeneration.15s CD withdraw450 heal every time you evade somethingkitten ton of evades.Sustain is not just raw healing. Sustain is EVERYTHING that lets you stay in the fight.Its mobility, Its CC, Its stealth.The only thing thief is really lacking is1 Aegis2 Protection3 Big toughtness numbers ( forced into HP amulet )And makes up for it with extra evades, alot of the builds dont heal like weaver.Warrior vs Thief, who heals more in that duel?Thief vs Cmirage, who heals more?Thief vs DG/Core guard, Who heals more?People come here and say thief sustain is BAD, im not saying its amazing or overpowered, im just saying its not bad.Who cares. You CAN make a build, but you lose everything that makes thief playable to do it. You end up hitting worse than a wet noodle and still aren't as tanky as weaver of scrapper. You get obliterated by condi as your cleanse is limited. Congrats, you have made a shitty build. Warrior vs your bunker thief is a joke. The warior wins hands down as they can actually do damage to you where you can't do anything back. Even with vigor your evasion drops off fast and you can't hold a point with your natural durability without constant evading.CMirage vs your thief is even worse. After your initial dodge burst, you get hit by chip condis and have very little cleanse. Your healing means nothing as conditions overwhelm you easily. Who cares who heals more, you can neither kill them nor bunker point.Thief vs guard is even more laughable. Core medi guard easily outheals you with 2k heals strapped to almost every ability they run. They can also do damage and are running marauder stats. Thief sustain is bad if you are running actual damage stats. You can survive the opening rounds of a fight by dodging, but once your dodges are expended you have to disengage or reset (hence why dagger storm is so popular, its a damaging reset that gives you time to regain energy). That isn't sustain. You can't hold a point for more than 15s. You end the fight in short manner or you disengage.

You people are kitten at reading.I said thief doesnt have bad sustain, I said they have strong healing skill.And they have good passive that keep them healthy.Then guys like you appear WELL OTHER CLASSES HAVE GOOD HEALS TOOOO.NO kitten sherlock, thats my point. Thiefs sustain is not bad. Numbers aren't in a vacuum. You compare them against other classes to get a benchmark of good and bad. Thief has very mediocre sustain WHEN COMPARED TO OTHER CLASSES. because what the fuck else are you going to compare it against. Yes, they have those abilities. No, they are not very relevant as their numbers aren't high enough to make significant differences in pvp. Daredevil has reasonable sustain due to evade frames, not heals. Core thief and Deadeye have very little sustain.

Is a 450 heal really worth talking about? You would need about 5 successful evade heals to heal a single auto from most power classes. Almost every class has an uninterruptible heal, thief is no different. Heal on initiative is less than regen. Thief isn't a problem. It has less damage than most power classes, less health and healing, and the only two things it do well are evade spam and map mobility.