Improving Willbender Virtues and fixing Mystic Rebuke power vs large groups

[Zikory.6871]

1 hour ago, RisenHowl.2419 said:

DH can do about the same damage in the same time frame, it's just much easier/more reliable to do it as willbender. A lot of people aren't taking into account that the specs were only out for five days, i play a lot of 15k health DH builds while zerging and it still took me a few days to get the timing down on the burst never mind optimizing the damage output. Given that they leave it as is, this will be a very strong burst dps pick once people have time to really play with it.

 

Best case scenario they add a .5s icd to f3 since that impacts other traits the least. If they leave the positive feedback loop intact it'll really lag the servers when you get 10 people doing it at the same time in map queue fights

You may be right, I'm conflicted on a suggestion as I believe the issue is F3 rather than Shattered Aegis. In my 3 nights of playing it, the most overpowered part was the fact that I was near unkillable after using F3, in full Berserker, as long as I didn't get interrupted. So the completely random target damage from Shattered Aegis, paired with full use of my weapons, it was my weapon bursts that was downing people. Tested with Soldiers, Shattered Aegis damage remained, burst potential dropped significantly. 

So the main issue I see in the video posted above, is that 1 person was able to sit inside that group supporting themselves while doing glass dps. So if that is how Anet wants F3 to work, then I'd be inclined to agree with you. However, in time as you pointed out, I  think the current F3 will find more ways to be abused. 

But also, I'd wait till after the next 6 to really dig into needed changes. I'd be lying if I said I didn't want to mess with it again in the last beta. 🙂

[RisenHowl.2419]

1 hour ago, Zikory.6871 said:

You may be right, I'm conflicted on a suggestion as I believe the issue is F3 rather than Shattered Aegis. In my 3 nights of playing it, the most overpowered part was the fact that I was near unkillable after using F3, in full Berserker, as long as I didn't get interrupted. So the completely random target damage from Shattered Aegis, paired with full use of my weapons, it was my weapon bursts that was downing people. Tested with Soldiers, Shattered Aegis damage remained, burst potential dropped significantly. 

So the main issue I see in the video posted above, is that 1 person was able to sit inside that group supporting themselves while doing glass dps. So if that is how Anet wants F3 to work, then I'd be inclined to agree with you. However, in time as you pointed out, I  think the current F3 will find more ways to be abused. 

But also, I'd wait till after the next 6 to really dig into needed changes. I'd be lying if I said I didn't want to mess with it again in the last beta. 🙂

I gave it a try in wanderers with trooper runes, pulled 20k dps with weakness on me. walked into 40 people, back out of 40 people np. It's pretty busted right now, i agree the issue is f3 100%

 

You can currently go very glassy and do solo melee pushes on DH right now too, litany of wrath offers the same option with stand your ground, effectively a 6s invuln while you burst away

[Acyk.9671]

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Edited April 3, 2022 by Acyk.9671

[Brokensunday.4098]

Give shattered aegis a 5 enemies cap that should fix the dps problem and some what the healing one too.

 

[Arcaedus.7290]

Couldn't the shattered aegis problem very easily be solved by giving it a 1 or 2s icd?

[Zikory.6871]

11 hours ago, Brokensunday.4098 said:

Give shattered aegis a 5 enemies cap that should fix the dps problem and some what the healing one too.

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_Rebuke - It is 5 targets. 

 

2 hours ago, Arcaedus.7290 said:

Couldn't the shattered aegis problem very easily be solved by giving it a 1 or 2s icd?

Yes, that would easily solve this specific situation. That would also make a already weak trait in every other aspect, even weaker. 

[lunaeclipse.6843]

While I heavily disagree it needs nerfing, if they must then probably the best way to nerf it while preserving an interesting interaction is to either a) shave the dmg of Mystic Rebuke or b) take the Stability generation away from Crashing Courage or c) put an ICD on Pure of Heart specifically.

Once again, keep in mind that, Spellbreaker, unblockable boonstrips (rev/necro), and clouding all shut the damage of this down.

As it stands, literally no build runs Shattered Aegis, in any regard. Toning down the damage of SA specifically wont hurt any other builds. I do realize that people's issue with it, is to do with Willbender and not core, but in this situation where literally no build runs it as it is because its so weak, it is a viable option.

As for option B, removing the stability generation increases the amount of counter-play that already exists for this build. Removing the stability forces the WB to either generate stability another way or forces reliance on a support to give it to them. This also means the stability access the burst has can be reliably stripped without reapplication. Without Stability, any unblockable->CC combo will shut it down. Many, many builds have ways of doing this.

For C, one of the big "issues" with the build is the Aegis spam infinitely healing you through Pure of Heart. An ICD on this trait specifically would stop the drastic healing, which also makes the burst more counter-playable.

Putting any kind of ICD on SA itself completely decimates this interaction as the literal only reason it works is due to the feedback interaction and relies on enemy attack constantly triggering it. If Arenanet adds any ICD to SA at all, they will absolutely overnerf it and then once again this trait will be back to where it was: never seeing the light of day. See Revenants' Soulcleave Summit. It is an interesting interaction and I really don't think the interaction itself should be taken away if it absolutely must be nerfed

Edited August 24, 2021 by Ertrak.9506

[Acyk.9671]

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Edited April 3, 2022 by Acyk.9671

[Brokensunday.4098]

9 hours ago, Zikory.6871 said:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_Rebuke - It is 5 targets. 

 

Yes, that would easily solve this specific situation. That would also make a already weak trait in every other aspect, even weaker. 

You are right didn't read the trait, then a icd of .5 or 1 sec should kill it or make it “ balance” this should only be for wvw

[Darknicrofia.2604]

Leave Shattered Aegis and Mystic Rebuke alone and rework how Willbender flames function via scaling.

 

The first iteration of the design is completely assbackwards to begin with how the spec is suppose to function, WB should never be a zerg fighting build unless Anet wants their new assassins to roleplay as a Dynasty Warriors clone 1v1000ing.

 

Reduce the flame procs to every single hit but with a 1 sec ICD per target.

[Saiyan.1704]

On 8/25/2021 at 11:13 AM, Darknicrofia.2604 said:

Leave Shattered Aegis and Mystic Rebuke alone and rework how Willbender flames function via scaling.

 

The first iteration of the design is completely assbackwards to begin with how the spec is suppose to function, WB should never be a zerg fighting build unless Anet wants their new assassins to roleplay as a Dynasty Warriors clone 1v1000ing.

 

Reduce the flame procs to every single hit but with a 1 sec ICD per target.

Absolutely not. Adding a 1s ICD to a trait or ability is a good way to crippled, not just Willbender, but every Guardian build. Laziness isn't something we should be promoting here. A max Aegis HIT of 3 per person is something I wouldn't mind talking about... that's a much better change than just adding some ICD to Mystic Rebuke. 

[draxynnic.3719]

2 hours ago, Saiyan.1704 said:

Absolutely not. Adding a 1s ICD to a trait or ability is a good way to crippled, not just Willbender, but every Guardian build. Laziness isn't something we should be promoting here. A max Aegis HIT of 3 per person is something I wouldn't mind talking about... that's a much better change than just adding some ICD to Mystic Rebuke. 

That is an interesting possibility. Wouldn't be a significant nerf to Mystic Rebuke in most situations, and would leave a strong synergy with Crashing Courage, but it would stop the aegis from immediately reapplying itself.

[RisenHowl.2419]

1 hour ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

That is an interesting possibility. Wouldn't be a significant nerf to Mystic Rebuke in most situations, and would leave a strong synergy with Crashing Courage, but it would stop the aegis from immediately reapplying itself.

it'd be even better if it were allowed to crit again with a 3 target cap. Or bump the power coefficient even higher

[Acyk.9671]

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Edited April 3, 2022 by Acyk.9671