Radical idea: Remove Unranked and Ranked

[Terrorsquad.2349]

Sounds pretty radical and it is.
But hear me out and let it sink in for a minute. (TLDR down below)

Why would anyone want that? If you're a frequent visitor of the pvp forums, you notice some of the same issues popping up:

- matchmaking (MMR diviation)
- queue times
- bots

This has to do with the low population and how the algorithm is set up:
It searches for players around your MMR and class.
If it doesn't find anything within x-amount of time, it will broaden its parameters to give you a match but less desirable result.
Example: gold 1 facing plat 2 in same match. Yes, this happens and also happened to me.

The idea behind the algorithm is not bad but doesn't work as well without the amount of people (pool) needed to make a decent match.

Idea:
The idea would be to remove unranked and ranked all together and just name it "PvP match". (with current ranked systems such as mmr, matchmaking, pips, ..)
This results in both pools becoming one which makes the matchmaking much more better. 

It will also minimize (not remove) some of the above mentioned problems (more players, less matches with bots, more equal mmr, more equal class (can still be tricked by rerolling or abused))
Yes, new players will be there too but down the road, the MMR will divide its pool nonetheless, just like ranked does.
I believe people queue'ing Unranked are in far more bigger numbers than people queue'ing for Ranked, based on the low queue-times.
But even if that wouldn't be true, the pool will be bigger nonetheless.

However, sometimes people play Unranked to test/experiment stuff, which is the perfect place for it. Even I do.
Perhaps this is the time we drop public rating (or shaming) all together.

Just have a personal MMR number assigned to you but don't let other people see it. Perhaps have only the top 100 be on leaderboard. But not friends or random people so people cannot blame the loss of a match towards 1 guy.
It just brings frustration, toxicity and elitism all together.

So this way even people experimenting can either go custom arena or they can just join "PvP match". As it doesn't hold any competitive name, it shouldn't be too much of an issue in the future.

Yes, people will have a hard time first weeks to let go off either ranked or unranked but it will improve the experience for players who are new and for players who are more serious. Just like we lost Solo and Team Ranked.

Extra:
I'm not too sure if I would keep the current DuoQ system. 

I would honestly make it back like Team Ranked (you can queue with how many friends you want) and tweak the matchmaker if necessary.
This would also eliviate some of the toxic/elitism issues we have to form a party. Many are asking to be minimum gold or plat to form a team which doesn't make a lot of sense in current state.

For example LFG AT, asking for plat1+, while their own knowledge mechanically or rotationally wise doesn't add up with their ranking

Right now some top players dropped from Legendary or plat into gold. Does that mean they're bad? No. They're just trying to have some fun but the matchmaking doesn't let them and in many cases it's that bad they cannot carry. Yet the day after they're back in plat because of DuoQ'ing with a buddy. So all in all that means that current ranking does not reflect reality.

TL;DR:

1. Remove Unranked and Ranked, merge it into only "PvP match":
a. Bigger pool, better matchmaking. New and experience players will be divided in time anyway
b. Queue times will be shorter. More enjoying the better matchmaking
c. Less bots visibility overal. Will not remove them but due the bigger pool, they will be encountered much less
d. People who use Unranked to train with their team, can use Custom Arena's (maybe make them cheaper or free?)

2. Make the new "PvP match" like old Team Ranked 
a. you can queue solo
b. you can queue duo
c. you can queue with full premade team

Edited August 26, 2021 by Terrorsquad.2349
Grammar, clearity

[Parthenos Polias.5683]

I don't get one point.
Do your "PvP Match" has anything to do with rank or anything competitive.

What I mean is : is it Ranked merged inside Unranked OR Unranked merged inside Ranked ?

[Terrorsquad.2349]

Just now, Parthenos Polias.5683 said:

I don't get one point.
Do your "PvP Match" has anything to do with rank or anything competitive.

What I mean is : is it Ranked merged inside Unranked OR Unranked merged inside Ranked ?

Good point, I might've been not clear enough.
The idea is to merge Unranked into Ranked system. So the current matchmaking, pips, mmr systems remains. So there is something reflecting your efforts but not per se publicly until you reach top 100.

[Genesis.5169]

There are gonna be alot more bronze players lol, i'm for this.

[Terrorsquad.2349]

5 minutes ago, Genesis.5169 said:

There are gonna be alot more bronze players lol, i'm for this.

Yes but also a lot of gold/plat skilled players who just don't want to face the toxicity/elitism wearing a certain badge or have a certian public rating visible for anyone added as guildie/friend. Or new/mediocre skilled players who are afraid to press that "Ranked" button because they don't know what they'll face. Make it a less competitive button and less public rating shaming and Im quite sure we will see more and better matchups

Edited August 26, 2021 by Terrorsquad.2349

[Genesis.5169]

Just now, Terrorsquad.2349 said:

Yes but also a lot of gold/plat skilled players who just don't want to face the toxicity/elitism wearing a certain badge. Or new/mediocre skilled players who are afraid to press that "Ranked" button because they don't know what they'll face. Make it a less competitive button and less public rating shaming and Im quite sure we will see more and better matchups

 

Badges can be turned off you know.

[Terrorsquad.2349]

Just now, Genesis.5169 said:

 

Badges can be turned off you know.

Yes but public rating cannot (add as friend and boom, your rank is visible) which is what i meant about the public part

[Genesis.5169]

Just now, Terrorsquad.2349 said:

Yes but public rating cannot (add as friend and boom, your rank is visible) which is what i meant about the public part

 

If only your friends can see it its not public.

[Terrorsquad.2349]

1 minute ago, Genesis.5169 said:

 

If only your friends can see it its not public.

You can see anyone's rank of your guild(s) and friendlist. So it's not exactly private either. Some guilds are close to 500 members, you can join 5 so theoratically thats already 2500 people able to see your ranking without adding you as friend.

So yes, people cannot see your rank without adding them as friend or being in their guild but it takes 2 clicks to make it so.

Anyway, I think we're going off the topic 🙂

[Zoser.7245]

And those unranked players that play casual PvP, do some daylies, etc, with no interest to compete and learn anything, only have fun, will leave to play other game  with an unranked system in no time after been farmed several days from alts/smurfs and get bored of the ranked players harassing them and accusing them of not play properly, not rotate, not adopt a role in the match, not having a clue of what a build is, what a combo fields  the game has and how to profit them,  know about CC, corrupt boons, what  each boon and condition do, choose the  right skills for PvP and use their skills properly, etc, etc.

 

Forcing players who have no interest in being competitive to play with competitive players will be a disaster. Competitive players will continue to be equally toxic and casual players will move/leave to a healthier environment. The result... only more players available temporally and later only the old ranked players playing PvP and even a lower population.  And the worst of all, almost no new player interested in enter directly to play where the competitive ones and pros are. Unranked exists not only for casual players but also for start to learn without pressure and without the best players abusing, which is what happens in rankeds every day.

[Terrorsquad.2349]

6 minutes ago, Zoser.7245 said:

And those unranked players that play casual PvP, do some daylies, etc, with no interest to compete and learn anything, only have fun, will leave to play other game  with an unranked system in no time after been farmed several days from alts/smurfs and get bored of the ranked players harassing them and accusing them of not play properly, not rotate, not adopt a role in the match, not having a clue of what a build is, what a combo fields  the game has and how to profit them,  know about CC, corrupt boons, what  each boon and condition do, choose the  right skills for PvP and use their skills properly, etc, etc.

 

Forcing players who have no interest in being competitive to play with competitive players will be a disaster. Competitive players will continue to be equally toxic and casual players will move/leave to a healthier environment. The result... only more players available temporally and later only the old ranked players playing PvP and even a lower population.  And the worst of all, almost no new player interested in enter directly to play where the competitive ones and pros are. Unranked exists not only for casual players but also for start to learn without pressure and without the best players abusing, which is what happens in rankeds every day.

Well thats the beauty about the matchmaking. Casual players wont be matched with them due to the increase of the pool. New and experienced players will be divided in matter of time due to mmr. Thats the whole thing right? So casual vs new/casuals. Bronze/Silver vs Bronze/Silver remains the same. Gold/plat vs gold/plat too.

 

Bigger pool means better matchmaking, its just how the agorithm works.

 

And your second point about competitive.. Thats the whole idea to remove unranked and ranked. Its just PvP. No more unranked, no more ranked. No public rating whatsoever.

 

You can find the same over multiple competitive games such a FPS. There's no unranked there. Nor does Warzone have one and it still the most played game, despite its issues.

Casuals are with casuals, more exp with more exp.

Edited August 26, 2021 by Terrorsquad.2349

[anjo.6143]

Since you cant know who is casual and who is bad, who is goofing around and who is just practicing a new spec, the mmr will make comps with ppl that doesnt wanna compete facing/together ppl wanna compete, thats not healthy at all mate

[Terrorsquad.2349]

Just now, anjo.6143 said:

Since you cant know who is casual and who is bad, who is goofing around and who is just practicing a new spec, the mmr will make comps with ppl that doesnt wanna compete facing/together ppl wanna compete, thats not healthy at all mate

Thats whats rating is for, no? Ppl who goof around or are "bad", will have lower rating, no?
People who are competitive and really serious, will have better mmr.

Thats what I meant: in time those will be divided anyway. Im not facing any bronze in gold/plat matches, are you? And thats with current low pop..

[anjo.6143]

Just now, Terrorsquad.2349 said:

Thats whats rating is for, no? Ppl who goof around or are "bad", will have lower rating, no?
People who are competitive and really serious, will have better mmr.

Thats what I meant: in time those will be divided anyway. Im not facing any bronze in gold/plat matches, are you? And thats with current low pop..

But ppl that are bad and wants to compete, wants to win the match, ppl goofing around doesnt.

If you are top25 duo facing a top25 duo and they gets 2 plat and 1 bad player  and you 2 plat players and 1 goofing around is a 4x5

Thats not good merge ppl that doesnt wanna compete with ppl competing, the mmr cant figure it out who is whom

[Terrorsquad.2349]

Just now, anjo.6143 said:

But ppl that are bad and wants to compete, wants to win the match, ppl goofing around doesnt.

If you are top25 duo facing a top25 duo and they gets 2 plat and 1 bad player  and you 2 plat players and 1 goofing around is a 4x5

Thats not good merge ppl that doesnt wanna compete with ppl competing, the mmr cant figure it out who is whom

But now you're mixing plat players with bad players. If they're bad, they wont get matched with plat. Anyone being matches with plat isn't "goofing around" or is "bad". Thats just not logical. We dont have that issue now. Why would we have it with bigger pool and more precise matchmaking due to bigger pool?

[Genesis.5169]

37 minutes ago, Zoser.7245 said:

And those unranked players that play casual PvP, do some daylies, etc, with no interest to compete and learn anything, only have fun, will leave to play other game  with an unranked system in no time after been farmed several days from alts/smurfs and get bored of the ranked players harassing them and accusing them of not play properly, not rotate, not adopt a role in the match, not having a clue of what a build is, what a combo fields  the game has and how to profit them,  know about CC, corrupt boons, what  each boon and condition do, choose the  right skills for PvP and use their skills properly, etc, etc.

 

Forcing players who have no interest in being competitive to play with competitive players will be a disaster. Competitive players will continue to be equally toxic and casual players will move/leave to a healthier environment. The result... only more players available temporally and later only the old ranked players playing PvP and even a lower population.  And the worst of all, almost no new player interested in enter directly to play where the competitive ones and pros are. Unranked exists not only for casual players but also for start to learn without pressure and without the best players abusing, which is what happens in rankeds every day.

 

Well they would be nuked down to a rating with people like them who don't care and play for fun so yeah that's an absurd point. And in the OP's scenario rating would be hidden completely which i disagree with but yeah it still negates all your points.

 

They'd lose till they go down to people just like them and no  one would know there rank so they wouldn't feel the shame of being bronze if that's what your worried about.

Edited August 26, 2021 by Genesis.5169
Clarity and additional info.

[Heika.5403]

7 minutes ago, Zoser.7245 said:

And those unranked players that play casual PvP, do some daylies, etc, with no interest to compete and learn anything, only have fun, will leave to play other game  with an unranked system in no time after been farmed several days from alts/smurfs and get bored of the ranked players harassing them and accusing them of not play properly, not rotate, not adopt a role in the match, not having a clue of what a build is, what a combo fields  the game has and how to profit them,  know about CC, corrupt boons, what  each boon and condition do, choose the  right skills for PvP and use their skills properly, etc, etc.

 

Forcing players who have no interest in being competitive to play with competitive players will be a disaster. Competitive players will continue to be equally toxic and casual players will move/leave to a healthier environment. The result... only more players available temporally and later only the old ranked players playing PvP and even a lower population.  And the worst of all, almost no new player interested in enter directly to play where the competitive ones and pros are. Unranked exists not only for casual players but also for start to learn without pressure and without the best players abusing, which is what happens in rankeds every day.

 

Lol imagine a game with 2 Pro alts + 3 good bots  vs  5 casual players that don't even read the tooltips of their skills.  🤣🤣🤣

Yes, there are players like that,  I know some that do PvP occasionally for a daily or to go have some laughs, until they get bored for not achieving anything and do not return for a long time. 😁 They will not want to go to PvP mixed with good players and people that are competitive and toxic.  Also without unranked and those casual players in a more friendly environment, new players interested to learn will probably end frustrated if directly are against the good ones.

 

If the unranked have a larger population than the ranked it is for a reason. Better save what is played than also kill it too. If someone really want to enter in ranked he will go there anyways, otherwise without a casual unranked he will probably go elsewhere, probably WvW or try other game for PvP.

 

[Terrorsquad.2349]

2 hours ago, Heika.5403 said:

 

Lol imagine a game with 2 Pro alts + 3 good bots  vs  5 casual players that don't even read the tooltips of their skills.  🤣🤣🤣

Yes, there are players like that,  I know some that do PvP occasionally for a daily or to go have some laughs, until they get bored for not achieving anything and do not return for a long time. 😁 They will not want to go to PvP mixed with good players and people that are competitive and toxic.  Also without unranked and those casual players in a more friendly environment, new players interested to learn will probably end frustrated if directly are against the good ones.

 

If the unranked have a larger population than the ranked it is for a reason. Better save what is played than also kill it too. If someone really want to enter in ranked he will go there anyways, otherwise without a casual unranked he will probably go elsewhere, probably WvW or try other game for PvP.

 

I agree with your second point "if they want to do ranked, they will". Thing is that many don't want to because they're afraid of "Ranked". Whilst Ranked and Unranked is basically the same but the competitive wording is still there.

 

About your first point: if they are casual, then again, they won't face the serious ones due to rating. Yes, you'll ofcourse have some pro players that use alts for fun but how many pro players do we actually have? If on a scale over entire pvp community, I can safely say that % is quite low.

To add on top of that: if they use an alt to play pvp and try to farm, they'll just end up higher in rating in the end as well unless they throw to come back lower again. Which is an issue that exists in Unranked and Ranked anyway. But again, % over the whole scale will be too low to notice much about it.

About botting: that's an issue that's going to stay but encountering them will be much fewer since you have a bigger pool. I don't believe it will grow exponentially as the pool would.
And if they do, we got more people to complain about it here 😛

[Heika.5403]

3 hours ago, Terrorsquad.2349 said:

I agree with your second point "if they want to do ranked, they will". Thing is that many don't want to because they're afraid of "Ranked". Whilst Ranked and Unranked is basically the same but the competitive wording is still there.

 

About your first point: if they are casual, then again, they won't face the serious ones due to rating. Yes, you'll ofcourse have some pro players that use alts for fun but how many pro players do we actually have? If on a scale over entire pvp community, I can safely say that % is quite low.

To add on top of that: if they use an alt to play pvp and try to farm, they'll just end up higher in rating in the end as well unless they throw to come back lower again. Which is an issue that exists in Unranked and Ranked anyway. But again, % over the whole scale will be too low to notice much about it.

About botting: that's an issue that's going to stay but encountering them will be much fewer since you have a bigger pool. I don't believe it will grow exponentially as the pool would.
And if they do, we got more people to complain about it here 😛

I don't think so. Casual players will avoid PvP in that case.  Enter PvP in that situation will imply play with bad competitive players with their same MMR that hate lose when casual ones can't care less and deal with their toxicity, they harassment, etc.  Need to start to block people, deal with unwanted whispers, reports, etc.   NO.  That is the answer. I asked some of my friends that play PvP only for have fun one day together, etc, and they don't want deal with competitive people, even with the bad ones they'll have to play.

Edited August 26, 2021 by Heika.5403

[Terrorsquad.2349]

3 minutes ago, Heika.5403 said:

I don't think so. Casual players will avoid PvP in that case.  Enter PvP in that situation will imply play with bad competitive players with their same MMR that hate lose when casual ones can careless and deal with their toxicity, they harassment, etc.  Need to start to block people, deal with unwanted whispers, reports, etc.   NO.  That is the answer. I asked some of my friends that play PvP only for have fun one day together, etc, and they don't want deal with competitive people, even with the bad ones they'll have to play.

Isn't that PvP as a whole? I get those issues in both Unranked and Ranked nonetheless. 

[Heika.5403]

30 minutes ago, Terrorsquad.2349 said:

Isn't that PvP as a whole? I get those issues in both Unranked and Ranked nonetheless. 

Not to the same degree. Each reset will be a nightmare for those players and even worse when carried above where they should be. Also, being a fp2 makes it worse. Something that it's very obvious wathing the amount of bots and hackers camping in rankeds that casual players that want to only have fun don't want to deal with either.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

Personally if I was forced to queue with the people that made Ranked a living nightmare to play then i'd probably just quit.

 

Especially with the meta as stale and boring as it is right now. I've got like 0 desire to improve or play any way other than for fun. 

And if Unranked and Ranked became merged that would be impossible.

 

Metagaming, bots, top players stacked together in DuoQs... These are all things you rarely if ever have to deal with in Unranked, but you run into all the time in Ranked.