stealth

[Bear.9568]

On 8/29/2021 at 9:19 AM, noiwk.2760 said:

can you please delete stealth along with thief from the game? daredevil is just kinda kitten and stupid..  its not even fun anymore to fight someone who use stealth every 2 seconds ..  rework stealth put some real cooldown on it !  its soooooooo annoying that thieves just stealth every few seconds and jump on you agian and then stealth again and again and agian even when they dont have to they stealth because they can..   get rid of it !

 

This guy needs some agony resist

[Psycoprophet.8107]

1 hour ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Fake news.
Very few skills are capable of revealing teef and on top of that they're clunky af to use in most cases. If you hit teef in stealth he won't get revealed.
Teef is only revealed only if he hits the target, so if enemy evades/blocks teef attack he won't lose stealth. No punishment for failing, great design right there.
Average teef will do stealth combos outisde of your vision or range or both. There's also chance that he'll blind your face so even if you know he's gonna stealth with combo you can't really do anything to interrupt it either way.

Though I agree that thief should be revealed on any attack that does damage, is evaded or blocked I disagree that stealth can't be interrupted. Other than blinding powder, shodow heal and de's overpowered elite thst shouldn't exist literally all the rest of thief's methods to gain or chain stealth leave easily seen circles of which u can cleave in damaging the thief.

Jumping through blackpowder a second time to stack stealth can mean death by any heavy hitting cleave, ie arc divider as example. Shadow refuge can be cleaved in to force the thief to leave it stopping it from stacking stealth. Many classes have ranged aoes like necro or engi/holo, stacking stealth while getting nades tossed into ur smoke fields shuts down stacking stealth quick, these types of strategies work very well yet most don't use them. Plus u have some classes with not only reveals but also skills like rapid fire and the like that track u in stealth.

Stealth thsts effective in any pvp game will be annoying, just like the classes that use them ie thief, it's been 9 years, no real rework of stealth will realistically happen, best case is learn ways to deal with it or move onto a game without stealth :).

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

1 hour ago, Genesis.5169 said:

 

If you didn't know there is a cooldown, on stealth attack so if you miss your stealth attack and your stealth timer is running often you have to use another CD to restealth to get your stealth attack or you swap weapons to use that stealth attack.

 

The punishment for missing backstab or what ever is there you just don't see it, you should really play thief.

Funny how A-net has decided to implement a kitten cd on stealth attack instead of just making you instantly revealed on failed attempt, band aid is not a solution to the problem.

1 hour ago, noobfest.2180 said:

Clunky?

 

What exactly is clunky about an engi auto attack or any damaging effect from an engi and or holo smith/scrapper.

 

How about a Guardian DH’s repeatable tether that is coming out of stealth from a trap. 
 

How about any core necro and their HUGE radius of reveal in shroud?

 

What about a warrior Spellbreaker’s tether from landing any burst.

 

Also we can’t forget about the Revenant glint instant AOE reveal. What a doozy.

 

Or even a 1200 ranger reveal from both a 1 shot soulbeast build or a warrior shout that cannot be avoided whether the thief LoS’s or the ranger/warrior is blind.

And these are just the popular ones.

 

Engineer: Requires specific trait that competes with better options. Need to hit stealthed target to even work.
DH: Requires to hit target before he enters stealth to "reveal" them.
Necro: first one that can be considered as somehow valid.
Warrior: Requires to hit a target with Burst before or in stealth to apply it in the first place, gl with that. Shout questionable description, it either requires a target within range or only a-net knows how it works exactly.
Rev: Can be dodged, sometimes won't reveal even if teef sits within range, clunky af. Desyncs doesn't help either.
Ranger: Requires you to hit target before he enters stealth.
In other words, most of them still require you to apply revealed BEFORE they even think about entering stealth or you must do some happygolucky hit on them in stealth.
What isn't clunky about that type of gameplay? LOL
 

[shrew.3059]

1 hour ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Funny how A-net has decided to implement a kitten cd on stealth attack instead of just making you instantly revealed on failed attempt, band aid is not a solution to the problem.

 

It’s not a solution because what you describe is not a problem. The cool down is a penalty for missing the attack, but you don’t want a penalty, you want an advantage, which is a different thing.

 

What’s actually funny is how nobody complaining about Stealth in this thread has offered a credible suggestion to rebalance it.

[lightDestroyer.1265]

18 hours ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

"(...) stealth also has counters." proceeds to write skill types that work on every other class that doesn't use stealth and claims it as a counters. 

( ͡ಥ ͜ʖ ͡ಥ)
Stealth has only "counter" and it's "Revealed", which not many classes have access to, it's clunky af and can still be avoided...

People like you shouldn't play pvp because you don't understand the mechanics and you don't qant to understand it either.  You just want to complain its unfair when every class has some ways to manage stealth.  If you are having a hard time, instead of complaining ask ppl and if you don't want the advice, playing pvp for you is pointless.

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

8 hours ago, shrew.3059 said:

 

It’s not a solution because what you describe is not a problem. The cool down is a penalty for missing the attack, but you don’t want a penalty, you want an advantage, which is a different thing.

 

What’s actually funny is how nobody complaining about Stealth in this thread has offered a credible suggestion to rebalance it.

Cap stealth at max 3s, after that you get 3s revealed that cannot be removed, no stacking allowed in PvP and WvW beside few skills that will grant you longer base stealth like Shadow Refuge or Mass Invisibility or whatever that exceeds the 3s. Remove traits that prolong stealth. Bring proper penalty that reveals on teefs attack being evaded, blocked, missed, whatever.
Here, fixes. Don't even start about talk about buffs for nerfing stealth, you still have kitten load of mobility and evades on top of it, which somehow you forget. 

51 minutes ago, lightDestroyer.1265 said:

People like you shouldn't play pvp because you don't understand the mechanics and you don't qant to understand it either.  You just want to complain its unfair when every class has some ways to manage stealth.  If you are having a hard time, instead of complaining ask ppl and if you don't want the advice, playing pvp for you is pointless.

I want broken mechanics either balanced or completely deleted from this game, I'm not nice enough to tolerate broken and pretend everything is fine. Same goes for poorly designed system of e-speces that still plague this game since 2015.
What's there to understand though? Stealth in this game is broken, it doesn't have proper counters or they're clunky af. 
Stop pretending like it's balanced because it's getting boring at this point.
The moment enemy stealths within 1-2 second he can be anywhere within 1200 range around you, now try to use your fancy counters that "reveals" target only if you hit them before they enter stealth. 

[mortrialus.3062]

The one thing I dislike about stealth is that if a stealthed attack is dodged or blocked or blinded or mitigated in someway it should reveal the target.

 

It's lame that if you correctly predicted a backstab, if the thief has a surplus of stealth they can still try 1-2 more times to backstab you.

[shrew.3059]

1 hour ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Don't even start about talk about buffs for nerfing stealth, you still have kitten load of mobility and evades on top of it, which somehow you forget. 

 

So you believe Thief is currently overtuned, and nerfing Stealth will bring it back in line with other professions? The problem is that you have provided zero evidence that this is true. Thieves are common in PvP because of their mobility, and your suggestion wouldn’t really change that. You’d still lose to them anyway and then you’d be back asking to nerf mobility.

 

Your suggestions would not cripple Thieves, but they are a straight nerf to something that isn’t game-breaking. I’ll give you the Stealth nerf if you give Thieves more than one source of Stability and additional group utility.

 

P.S. I’m not “pretending” it’s balanced, I just disagree with you that it is broken. If you’re bored, feel free to not respond. Or make a thread about nerfing boredom?

Edited September 4, 2021 by shrew.3059

[shrew.3059]

58 minutes ago, mortrialus.3062 said:

 

It's lame that if you correctly predicted a backstab, if the thief has a surplus of stealth they can still try 1-2 more times to backstab you.

 

What is going on with your maths here? For a Thief to have 3 attempts to backstab you they must have a lot of Stealth. How did they get that much Stealth, close the gap to you, stay behind you, while spamming backstab? Are you a target golem? Why are they blowing multiple Stealth skills (not to mention time) just to get a single backstab? Have you even attempted to do what you’re suggesting on a Thief in PvP? Do you know how unlikely it is? Do you know how inefficient it would be for a Thief to repeatedly try to backstab someone 3 times? All signs point to “no”.

 

The important thing to remember is that these threads aren’t negotiations, they are an opportunity for people who have played the profession to explain why you’re wrong because you won’t check for yourself. Nerfs to Stealth are not going to be won on the forums.

Edited September 4, 2021 by shrew.3059

[mortrialus.3062]

11 minutes ago, shrew.3059 said:

 

What is going on with your maths here? For a Thief to have 3 attempts to backstab you they must have a lot of Stealth. How did they get that much Stealth, close the gap to you, stay behind you, while spamming backstab? Are you a target golem? Why are they blowing multiple Stealth skills (not to mention time) just to get a single backstab? Have you even attempted to do what you’re suggesting on a Thief in PvP? Do you know how unlikely it is? Do you know how inefficient it would be for a Thief to repeatedly try to backstab someone 3 times? All signs point to “no”.

 

The important thing to remember is that these threads aren’t negotiations, they are an opportunity for people who have played the profession to explain why you’re wrong because you won’t check for yourself. Nerfs to Stealth are not going to be won on the forums.

With a smoke field a thief can wrack up 9 seconds of stealth dude minus like the 2 seconds to set it up.

[shrew.3059]

14 minutes ago, mortrialus.3062 said:

With a smoke field a thief can wrack up 9 seconds of stealth dude minus like the 2 seconds to set it up.

 

You are seriously going to let a Thief Heartseeker through a Smoke Field 3 times in front of you?

 

So let’s think this through: Thief is within range of you, drops a smoke field, HS thrice to build the Stealth, then goes in for the Backstab, misses, waits for CD, misses again, waits for CD, misses again.

 

This Thief doesn’t need to get nerfed, they need to delete their character. They have effectively emptied their entire initiative pool to get a single backstab. For the investment of resources, you’d think that skill would one-shot someone it hit. Which it won’t, even if they are glass, and even if they are, they will be exploded by anything that hits them.

 

Why are they even missing that often? That they can do this is not only fine, it’s a buff to other professions since they can now avoid a Thief who is obviously drunk. And let’s not address the fact that you did nothing after they dropped the Smoke Field since apparently you just stood there as they missed Backstabs. Did you even leave the area? Because if you did, their Stealth timer would be spent trying to chase you. Did you drop any AoE, throw up any active mitigation? What is even happening in this encounter?!

 

This seems like pure napkin theorycraft.

Edited September 4, 2021 by shrew.3059

[Solitude.2097]

Give stealth to other classes !

If they have the means to survive (mobility -stealth) they will run away from the bases  (less bunkers) !

 

In one year , we will revue stealth once again , like giving it a GW1 flat damage reduction but half visible ,

or  if he tags you (attack) and then stealth you gain combat awareness (see his footprints after 2s and his silhouette at 500 yards  after 5s .

Or stealth combat exhaustion - move slower for each sec he spents in stealth (and  cant' be bypassed by Superspeed - Stealth Runes

Edited September 4, 2021 by Solitude.2097

[anjo.6143]

23 hours ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Fake news.
Very few skills are capable of revealing teef and on top of that they're clunky af to use in most cases. If you hit teef in stealth he won't get revealed.
Teef is only revealed only if he hits the target, so if enemy evades/blocks teef attack he won't lose stealth. No punishment for failing, great design right there.
Average teef will do stealth combos outisde of your vision or range or both. There's also chance that he'll blind your face so even if you know he's gonna stealth with combo you can't really do anything to interrupt it either way.

So, you avoid stealth attack by blocking, thief do business (combos) away from you, hit like a wet noodle, revealed for 3s every time he landed an attack on you, has 0 defense and 15k hp, and u are complaining that you cant win a 1v1 against thief ??

This is a case of l2p.

[anjo.6143]

4 hours ago, Solitude.2097 said:

Give stealth to other classes !

If they have the means to survive (mobility -stealth) they will run away from the bases  (less bunkers) !

 

In one year , we will revue stealth once again , like giving it a GW1 flat damage reduction but half visible ,

or  if he tags you (attack) and then stealth you gain combat awareness (see his footprints after 2s and his silhouette at 500 yards  after 5s .

Or stealth combat exhaustion - move slower for each sec he spents in stealth (and  cant' be bypassed by Superspeed - Stealth Runes

Ranger has Stealth
Eng has Stealth
Guard has Stealth
Mesmer has Stealth

???????????????????????????????????????????????????????

[Solitude.2097]

7 hours ago, anjo.6143 said:

Ranger has Stealth
Eng has Stealth
Guard has Stealth
Mesmer has Stealth

???????????????????????????????????????????????????????

4 more classes to give it !

And shorter cd , just like DragonHunters and Thieves !

[anjo.6143]

Just now, Solitude.2097 said:

4 more classes to give it !

And shorter cd , just like DragonHunters and Thieves !

and medium armor, without protection, self sustain, low HP, low damage and low defense o7 got it

 

[Solitude.2097]

6 hours ago, anjo.6143 said:

and medium armor, without protection, self sustain, low HP, low damage and low defense o7 got it

 

Yeah !

When you both stealth ,it won't matter , because you won't find each other

[Solitude.2097]

How about we "test it" atm , with capturing side objectives ?

If your team capture them  , and you activate it (F5 , 0.7 sec cast time ) you get 2 sec stealth with 10 sec reveal (10 cd)  , while the opponents will get the same effect but reduced (1.5s)   ?

 

Just for science and giggles   , before the x-pack!

Edited September 4, 2021 by Solitude.2097

[lightDestroyer.1265]

On 9/4/2021 at 9:50 AM, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Cap stealth at max 3s, after that you get 3s revealed that cannot be removed, no stacking allowed in PvP and WvW beside few skills that will grant you longer base stealth like Shadow Refuge or Mass Invisibility or whatever that exceeds the 3s. Remove traits that prolong stealth. Bring proper penalty that reveals on teefs attack being evaded, blocked, missed, whatever.
Here, fixes. Don't even start about talk about buffs for nerfing stealth, you still have kitten load of mobility and evades on top of it, which somehow you forget. 

I want broken mechanics either balanced or completely deleted from this game, I'm not nice enough to tolerate broken and pretend everything is fine. Same goes for poorly designed system of e-speces that still plague this game since 2015.
What's there to understand though? Stealth in this game is broken, it doesn't have proper counters or they're clunky af. 
Stop pretending like it's balanced because it's getting boring at this point.
The moment enemy stealths within 1-2 second he can be anywhere within 1200 range around you, now try to use your fancy counters that "reveals" target only if you hit them before they enter stealth. 

If they are at 1200 range you dont need ro worry. You won the node.  If you chase after thief then you are making a losing move.  And that 1200 range is only done by 1 move which is on 40 sec cooldown if traited.  Rest all the times they stealth,  they are probably near you.  You set up aoe and they will be revealed.  Thiefs are susceptible to condis.  They can be revealed,  which reveal os clunky af? Name it.  Stealthing through skills eats your initiative.  If you complain about stealth being broken,  then condis can be broken to some classes,  dmg to other, cc to other perma weakness to yet another.  Learn instead of complaining about core mechanics.

Thiefs only +1. They dont 1v1 unless the other player is bad or a warrior. I had problem with thieves thinking how much stealth they have,  but once you learn how they get their stealth,  you can start to counter it using your brain.  People keep complaining abiut mesmer even after its been nerfed a lot yet high tier players have no problem with mesmee.  Why?  Because they understand the mechanics.  Only those classes can be called broken like scourge which deals huge dmg,  is support as well as the most imp thing "rez bot".  That is what i would call broken.  

[lightDestroyer.1265]

On 9/3/2021 at 11:54 PM, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Funny how A-net has decided to implement a kitten cd on stealth attack instead of just making you instantly revealed on failed attempt, band aid is not a solution to the problem.

Engineer: Requires specific trait that competes with better options. Need to hit stealthed target to even work.
DH: Requires to hit target before he enters stealth to "reveal" them.
Necro: first one that can be considered as somehow valid.
Warrior: Requires to hit a target with Burst before or in stealth to apply it in the first place, gl with that. Shout questionable description, it either requires a target within range or only a-net knows how it works exactly.
Rev: Can be dodged, sometimes won't reveal even if teef sits within range, clunky af. Desyncs doesn't help either.
Ranger: Requires you to hit target before he enters stealth.
In other words, most of them still require you to apply revealed BEFORE they even think about entering stealth or you must do some happygolucky hit on them in stealth.
What isn't clunky about that type of gameplay? LOL
 

So what you mean to say is that you want to play braindead against thiefs and win.  You don't want thieves to have any counterplay.