Rework some utility skills (PvE) - Energy

[SeTect.5918]

Hey there. 

First i wanna say this is not a post for a buff. 

I am just like the energy on utility skills just need a full rework, at least on core.

 

Now if we take a look at demon, dwarf, assassin and Centaur: most utility skills r not useable in pve or often even in wvw (i dont play pvp much, so not mentioned).

 

I mostly run condition herald in open world or fractals. The skills from 7-9 r never used for me. Same for assassin, there i dont even use the elite, so basically just the heal skill and the utility one that gives 1 additional hit per strike. Forgot the Name.

 

Imo the energy on core of utilities have to be faaaar reduced but giving them a cooldown....i mean most r unplayable in pve bc its too much of a dps/energy loss. 

 

Condi heralds most dmg comes from the elite skill of demon. If u will use an utility skill (20-30 energy), u ll lose half energy which reduces the uptime of the elite skill by far which ends up in a great dps lose.

 

However just wanted to put this out bc this annoyed me for a loooong time now.

 

Edit: guys, i never said i want a buff and a never said i expect it to be high dps class. I just said i want stuff like demon utilities to be usable in pve. The full Design of the utilities from 7-9 speak against demon design. Demon is the Legend for condi dmg. Its not only that these utilities deal 0 damaging condis, they also have such a high energy cost that they r not even worth using as cc. Thats why i told about giving them a Lower energy cost and giving them a cooldown in exchange. 

Edited August 31, 2021 by SeTect.5918
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[Buran.3796]

I understand the criticism to Mallyx's cost since the utilities do almost no damage (albeit Pain Absortion's 5 sec resolution and Call to Anguish's cc are strong in PvP/WvW), but Jalis and Shiro utilities are awesome in every game mode. Mallyx's utilities are more oriented towards competitive game modes. Even if they reduce Mallyx's #7, #8, #9 cost to 5 units you still won't use them too much in PvE due they don't do the damage. And speaking of damage, every Fractal boss and bouty have been soloed with condi Herald and condi Renegade, so is not like the class needs a buff due "is almost unplayable in PvE". 

Edited August 30, 2021 by Buran.3796

[Telgum.6071]

I'm highly against revenant buffs/reworks except those related to Ventari or Pain Absorption. Also I don't really see how reducing the cooldown of certain skills would help if said skills are supposedly "not useable".

 

9 hours ago, SeTect.5918 said:

Condi heralds most dmg comes from the elite skill of demon. If u will use an utility skill (20-30 energy), u ll lose half energy which reduces the uptime of the elite skill by far which ends up in a great dps lose.

The issue is Revenant has reaaaaally short cooldowns, to the point that playing without energy would be just godmode, and shorting the cooldowns wouldn't be very different IMO. Also condi herald's issue is not energy management, is not having a second weapon set to pair with Mace/Axe. Condi Herald is more like a dueler/roamer or a support like Bannerslave, just less usable for high end PvE because what it offers can be offered by other classes that are overtuned like Firebrand or Mr. Full Squad 25Might Druid.

 

Looking at the metas, I think Herald is just designed to be a support specialization due to its main mechanic: facets = boon sharing. Therefore it doesn't really make much sense to expect it to be a high DPS specialization.

 

PS. 

9 hours ago, SeTect.5918 said:

most utility skills r not useable in pve or often even in wvw

I couldn't disagree more with this statement, again excluding Ventari.

Edited August 31, 2021 by Telgum.6071

[SeTect.5918]

9 hours ago, Buran.3796 said:

I understand the criticism to Mallyx's cost since the utilities do almost no damage (albeit Pain Absortion's 5 sec resolution and Call to Anguish's cc are strong in PvP/WvW), but Jalis and Shiro utilities are awesome in every game mode. Mallyx's utilities are more oriented towards competitive game modes. Even if they reduce Mallyx's #7, #8, #9 cost to 5 units you still won't use them too much in PvE due they don't do the damage. And speaking of damage, every Fractal boss and bouty have been soloed with condi Herald and condi Renegade, so is not like the class needs a buff due "is almost unplayable in PvE". 

I think you got me wrong, as i said in my Post i want no buff, just make them worth using. 

I also meant these skills r unplayable in pve, not the whole class. 

 

The skills ofc deal low damage but they would be used. 

For example to the skill with coolness: coolness is a cc and the other skill with the jump combo is too. So they will be used. 

Atm you have other skills that give ccs too so they r ofc not worth using because of the high energy cost.

10 hours ago, SeTect.5918 said:

First i wanna say this is not a post for a buff. 

With this i meant they should keep balance between cooldown and energy to make them worth using. Obv i dont want that they cost 5 energy but still have 0 cooldown. 

[The Boz.2038]

No need to make them worth using. If you're playing Condi, you shouldn't click the Strike button. If you're playing Strike, you shouldn't click the Condi button. If you're doing a damage rotation, you shouldn't click the Sustain skill. Etc.

Swap legends for more energy. Swap <10 with Charged Mists for even more energy. Yes, Charged Mists window is kinda needlessly small, could be looked at, but other than that, no need to change most stuff*.

 

* - Other than Ventari. Ventari needs change badly.

[Brunnsteinangel.2568]

Pretty much every utility has its use in PvE as well.

Malyx boon corupt might not be necessary in a lot of content, but it makes it hell of a lot easier, if your enemies don't have 25 Stacks of might, regen and prot.

The condi protect lost its bite since the change, but was awesome before.

The CC is nice to have for CC, pull mobs together (cleave) and some mobility.

 

Shrios ult is great if you want some srtong CC NOW, after you used ur usual stuff (mostly cause your group sucks at CC).

I don't really use the movemt skill of shiro, but they can still be handy.

 

Jalis utility is great! Don't use the legend a lot, but the dmg reduction on the ult is nice to have, the hammers also offer dmg reduction and the staby road is often used.

Chains are a bit meh, though it is mostly the problem with provocation.

 

VBantari great utility all around everywhere (though not easy to use)

 

Sooo... no real change needed IMO

[RabbitUp.8294]

I also play Mallyx, and I use all of the utilities, I don't get why you don't.

 

The pull is extremely useful both solo and in team scenarios to group everything together and cleave them down. When everything is grouped together, it's an indirect damage increase. It's also a hard CC + chill for breakbars.

 

The boon rip doesn't do direct damage either, but removing an enemy's Resolution translates to a massive 50% damage increase. It's also heavily used in fractals if you play support renegade.

 

Shiro's utilities are more 1v1 oriented, but you should absolutely be using your elite especially in open world. Revenant has 50 free energy at the start of every fight. Start in Shiro, use the elite, gaining tons of Battle Scar stacks in the process, then swap legends and cleave everything down. If you can start every fight with a 3 second stun, why wouldn't you?

Edited August 31, 2021 by RabbitUp.8294

[Vennyhedgie.5369]

Well Mallyx USED to have damage on its utility skills until they removed the combo field and confusion from banish enchantment. 

 

Yeah Mallyx used to be cool. I miss old rev, it was incredibly fun to play, even base rev, but people never bothered learning it and cried that base rev was weak so they gutted it for pvp and made a terrible PvE experience. Now it is basically "press the elite" and just passively do damage until you run out of energy. 

[Shao.7236]

The point of Revenant is to make compromises to achieve things. Asking to do any different is breaking the fundamental.

 

5 hours ago, Vennyhedgie.5369 said:

Well Mallyx USED to have damage on its utility skills until they removed the combo field and confusion from banish enchantment. 

 

Yeah Mallyx used to be cool. I miss old rev, it was incredibly fun to play, even base rev, but people never bothered learning it and cried that base rev was weak so they gutted it for pvp and made a terrible PvE experience. Now it is basically "press the elite" and just passively do damage until you run out of energy. 

 

Confusion was more or less useful, in PvP against Firebrand meta it was though.

 

Unyielding Anguish was honestly only useful as a mobile skill, the cleave was pointless waste and you had better efficient use out of keeping EotD, problem being that it takes too long therefor the rework to the skill encouraging people to consume plain energy for a dps increase is way more sensical, even relevant to the post here since energy cost to apply 8 stacks with traited chill on hopefully a still target for 30 energy was nothing to ride home about.

 

EotD unblockable and immunity to blindness was more of a nuisance than useful, it would not remove blind from users or take away Aegis which in the pressure is a more useful thing to do with the amount of attacks coming.

 

What really needs to be fixed right now is Resistance to affect Poison modifiers.

 

Although you'd argue Mallyx was more fun back then, I don't think it was, the gameplay was barely of any difference and rather transferred to a better concept which is today's Mallyx. More interaction than just sitting on UA spam to still targets, your self AoE which can have skills connect to is more fun too, persistent as it can be made.