Change Request Series: Overly Small Durations

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Hey @Cal Cohen.2358/ @Cal Cohen.3527, hope you are well. Guess what time it is?

Here is the problem. During the Feb2020 patch when you slashed everything (but not quite everything) you kind of cut some things to such small durations that they're effectively useless. I'm sure that was a means of temporarily deleting them from play at the time, but it's been a year and a half since then, so could you revisit the below durations at some point? As I said these effects were essentially deleted and is added to the dearth of build effectiveness and variety.

 

Bloodlust: The bleed duration is 1.25s (this includes the traited extension). The thing is the PvE version is 4s traited. This is not some super powerful trait, and the is no real reason to split the duration between modes when the PvE one is 3s base not taking into account the 33% PvE increase. Please increase the competitive mode duration to 3s untraited.

 

Shield Master: The might duration is 1s. No warrior will be able to make effective use of that might outside of the Might Makes Right proc. Its been 1.5 years. Please raise the might duration to 5s, which is more or less the standard might duration in competitive play.

 

Dual Strike: The quickness here is 0.5s per strike but only apply once each. This would be fine if this applied per target struck, which would promote more skillful play, but I don't that that is something you can change. The 1s total quickness duration will get partially eaten up by aftercasts so you barely have time to even make use of this boon on OH axe in competitive play, which is already not a popular weapon in competitive. Please increase the duration 1s per strike. This would be half the PvE duration, which is more than enough of a reduction.

 

Runner up Heightened Focus:  Heightened Focus does not really see play. It is rather weak for a GM tier trait. The only thing you can do is to reduce the CD or increase the duration, but this trait needs more than that so pass along this suggestion please.

 

This would be a good candidate trait to create a 'Super Quickness' trait. Like these traits. Anet could even create a warrior niche by using Heightened Focus to give warrior the original quickness attack speed increase (If that happens then completely disregard my original change request series suggestions as they would then be too powerful). Another option would be to have quickness grant increased precision and ferocity for warriors, say +200 each.

 

Again thanks for you time in reading this whenever it is you log back onto the forums.

[The Boz.2038]

Bloodlust is 1.15s with the trait itself, the display just rounds up to 1.25.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

9 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Bloodlust is 1.15s with the trait itself, the display just rounds up to 1.25.

Thank you Boz, you are right that the displays all round to the nearest quarter second. That just reinforces how small of a bleed duration it is.

[draxynnic.3719]

For a couple of these, I can't help but wonder if rendering them useless by giving them durations so short they might was well be zero was actually the point. Shield Master in particular is a trait that's so much more useful in competitive than in PvE that it probably doesn't need the Might to be worth taking in competitive, while in PvE it's probably still a poor choice in many situations even WITH the Might.

 

However, that's a case where the trait already has another effect that makes it worth taking (shorter cooldown on valuable shield skills, turning blocks into reflects). Bloodlust isn't so lucky. And when it comes to Dual Strike... how much of a DPS boost is it really compared to autoattacking with axe?

Broadly speaking, though, it doesn't exactly feel like warrior is overpowered at the moment, and it would be more elegant if those durations were long enough that they actually felt more like their PvE equivalents. The reason why splits are only supposed to affect numbers is supposed to be so that when going from one mode to another, people still find the skills doing the same thing just with different efficiencies rather than doing something completely different... but in cases where durations are reduced so much that they might as well not be there, this is only happening on a technicality.

[The Boz.2038]

For the quickness, I think ANet was really afraid of warrior's potential invul/stab/quick finishers. Maybe that was the motivation?

[Peacekid.1463]

im really sad of how warriors are so poor in its capabilities

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

5 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

For the quickness, I think ANet was really afraid of warrior's potential invul/stab/quick finishers. Maybe that was the motivation?

Are you referring to battle standard? We have quickness on Frenzy as well, so I do not think that is the case.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

11 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

For a couple of these, I can't help but wonder if rendering them useless by giving them durations so short they might was well be zero was actually the point. Shield Master in particular is a trait that's so much more useful in competitive than in PvE that it probably doesn't need the Might to be worth taking in competitive, while in PvE it's probably still a poor choice in many situations even WITH the Might.

 

However, that's a case where the trait already has another effect that makes it worth taking (shorter cooldown on valuable shield skills, turning blocks into reflects). Bloodlust isn't so lucky. And when it comes to Dual Strike... how much of a DPS boost is it really compared to autoattacking with axe?

Broadly speaking, though, it doesn't exactly feel like warrior is overpowered at the moment, and it would be more elegant if those durations were long enough that they actually felt more like their PvE equivalents. The reason why splits are only supposed to affect numbers is supposed to be so that when going from one mode to another, people still find the skills doing the same thing just with different efficiencies rather than doing something completely different... but in cases where durations are reduced so much that they might as well not be there, this is only happening on a technicality.

I think 'deleting' them for the time being was the point, which I do reference. But it has also been 1.5 years at this point. It is kind of time to undelete them.

[draxynnic.3719]

10 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I think 'deleting' them for the time being was the point, which I do reference. But it has also been 1.5 years at this point. It is kind of time to undelete them.

Yeah. I could see the point with Shield Master since it still offers something valuable in competitive, but I don't think anyone is still using Defence anyway? So the line as a whole could probably do with a buff.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

4 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Yeah. I could see the point with Shield Master since it still offers something valuable in competitive, but I don't think anyone is still using Defence anyway? So the line as a whole could probably do with a buff.

That requires three things:

Increase the Might on block to 5s from 1s

Either revert the 300s CD nerf on Defy Pain, or rework it. A rework was promised, but never happened.

Either revert the 300s CD nerf on Last Stand or rework it. A rework was promised, but never happened.

[draxynnic.3719]

Ah, yes, those 300s CD passive traits. Was expecting something to be done with those a little sooner (heck, the traitline as a whole could probably do with a rework)... but this isn't really the place for that.

 

I think there is a degree to which Shield Master could stand on its own without the Might in competitive modes. I don't think adding it in would necessarily be a bad thing, but on the other hand, I could see them being concerned about someone blocking at the right time and suddenly getting 25 Might while also reflecting a bunch of projectiles into the faces of their attackers simultaneously. That might stretch into "getting too much offensive and defensive benefit simultaneously" territory.

 

This is mostly playing devil's advocate, though. With the state warrior is in at the moment, I don't think there's really a significant risk that buffing Shield Master is going to suddenly make warrior oppressive. And even less chance regarding the other suggestions.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

5 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Ah, yes, those 300s CD passive traits. Was expecting something to be done with those a little sooner (heck, the traitline as a whole could probably do with a rework)... but this isn't really the place for that.

 

I think there is a degree to which Shield Master could stand on its own without the Might in competitive modes. I don't think adding it in would necessarily be a bad thing, but on the other hand, I could see them being concerned about someone blocking at the right time and suddenly getting 25 Might while also reflecting a bunch of projectiles into the faces of their attackers simultaneously. That might stretch into "getting too much offensive and defensive benefit simultaneously" territory.

You can do that anyway right now with boon duration versus an enemy zerg, but you don't see phalanxes of warriors trying to do that do you? Still Unblockable is the counter to that hypothetical problem.

5 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

This is mostly playing devil's advocate, though. With the state warrior is in at the moment, I don't think there's really a significant risk that buffing Shield Master is going to suddenly make warrior oppressive. And even less chance regarding the other suggestions.

That's fine. I appreciate it.

[Broxxgar.6801]

Excelents tips, I tried see the benefits of bloodlust on PvP and is not that so high.

Likes the change to 'Heighned Focus', for my personal game I don't use 'Heighned Focus' because of its high cd. Make it useless for 2s of quickness, when your enemy is always teleporting. I didn't test on WvW I will take a look on that.


Dual Strike just can be used on a combo with CC. But its kind hard this 1s buff you have to be more fast than the latency that you play.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

10 minutes ago, Broxxgar.6801 said:

Excelents tips, I tried see the benefits of bloodlust on PvP and is not that so high.

It's so low that it is meaningless.

10 minutes ago, Broxxgar.6801 said:

Likes the change to 'Heighned Focus', for my personal game I don't use 'Heighned Focus' because of its high cd. Make it useless for 2s of quickness, when your enemy is always teleporting. I didn't test on WvW I will take a look on that.

The duration is pretty poor, but the CD is fine. It's just not very good as a GM trait with nothing else going on for it when it has to compete with Ae Mastery and Burst Mastery.

10 minutes ago, Broxxgar.6801 said:

Dual Strike just can be used on a combo with CC. But its kind hard this 1s buff you have to be more fast than the latency that you play.

Yeah, latency and aftercasts eat up that 1s pretty quickly.

[The Boz.2038]

52 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

That requires three things:

Increase the Might on block to 5s from 1s

Either revert the 300s CD nerf on Defy Pain, or rework it. A rework was promised, but never happened.

Either revert the 300s CD nerf on Last Stand or rework it. A rework was promised, but never happened.

What bothers me is that they're SO EASY to rework!

The traits don't really have to call up any Lesser Anything!

Defy Pain: Gain 5s Resolution and Protection when struck while below the health threshold. Threshold: 50%. Cooldown: 45s.

Last Stand: Break Stun when disabled, and gain 5s Stability and Swiftness. Cooldown: 45s.

Hard to Catch has a 30s CD, no reason to go overboard with these. The "lessers" as a concept should be done away with.

[Broxxgar.6801]

1 minute ago, The Boz.2038 said:

What bothers me is that they're SO EASY to rework!

The traits don't really have to call up any Lesser Anything!

Defy Pain: Gain 5s Resolution and Protection when struck while below the health threshold. Threshold: 50%. Cooldown: 45s.

Last Stand: Break Stun when disabled, and gain 5s Stability and Swiftness. Cooldown: 45s.

Hard to Catch has a 30s CD, no reason to go overboard with these. The "lessers" as a concept should be done away with.

About Defy Pain that you  suggest its ok. But Last Stand as Lesser  Balanced Stance I won't change it because of critical damage be denied during the Last Stand effect. I see those 2 traits as WvW traits where fights can take more than 5min to occurs. Of course you have to be good to not throw those CD on mob.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

58 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

What bothers me is that they're SO EASY to rework!

The traits don't really have to call up any Lesser Anything!

Defy Pain: Gain 5s Resolution and Protection when struck while below the health threshold. Threshold: 50%. Cooldown: 45s.

Last Stand: Break Stun when disabled, and gain 5s Stability and Swiftness. Cooldown: 45s.

Hard to Catch has a 30s CD, no reason to go overboard with these. The "lessers" as a concept should be done away with.

I know right? I think what became the problem is that CMC was given assurance that they would be reworked, but when IBS tanked and they went into full EoD mode that it got dropped on the floor.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

55 minutes ago, Broxxgar.6801 said:

About Defy Pain that you  suggest its ok. But Last Stand as Lesser  Balanced Stance I won't change it because of critical damage be denied during the Last Stand effect. I see those 2 traits as WvW traits where fights can take more than 5min to occurs. Of course you have to be good to not throw those CD on mob.

The issue was more of the auto stunbreaks on them in addition to what they did before.