Random Arena - Winning Team Continues Until Defeated

[Unknown.6851]

- Taken from another thread, but I think it’s something worth discussing. 
 

One big thing that Anet could to do in PvP that would help kill the toxicity while also mixing things up for the game is to replicate what they have for Guild Wars 1 PvP. The Random Arena teams of 5 get to continue playing with the same players if they win their match until they are defeated by a better random team of 5. I should add, that after any match is over a player can leave and go back to HoTM and their spot will be replaced with another random player that is queing with no penalty for the leaver.

 

When the team wins 20 games (which is very rare and hard to do) they would get a nice gold bump and go back to HoTM. Think about how much toxicity would be naturally eliminated if you weren’t just sitting in a game with randoms for 6-10 minutes and then you never see them again.
 

There needs to be a purpose for building a relationship in this game, investing in trying to help other players learn and get better. What would be better for cultivating team work and a teaching environment than trying to get your random team to 20 wins in a row in the arena?

 

Currently there is no benefit to being nice and not being an elitist kitten because once that game ends who cares. The bad players go back to being bad players and the grumpy toxic players do the same, we need to cultivate team work in this game and GW1 PVP had that right. I don’t know why they didn’t continue that here? It seems like a obvious fix and would solve multiple problems at the same time.

 

Just the fun and competitiveness of that one good team out there that you hope to beat with your random team of 5 can be exciting. And when it does happen, that’s a really nice feeling of success. This change would also set up players to contribute and join more AT’s and MAT’s (making them more competitive in the long term.) 

 

Let’s make it happen guys, at least as a test in the off-season.

Edited September 5, 2021 by noobfest.2180

[Downstate.4697]

It could work but only as a solo q. Plus snowballing is a big deal. Once its 4v5 its hard to make a comeback, partly due to downstate. Id love to try it, but anet.

 

 

[Guirssane.7082]

You took the gw1 system and made it into gw2 basically. This isn't the same game

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

 

1 hour ago, noobfest.2180 said:

- Taken from another thread, but I think it’s something worth discussing. 
 

The only thing that Anet has to do for PvP to kill the toxicity while also mixing things up for the game is to replicate what they have for Guild Wars 1 PvP. The Random Arena teams of 5 get to continue playing with the same players if they win their match until they are defeated by a better random team of 5. I should add, that after any match is over a player can leave and go back to HoTM and their spot will be replaced with another random player that is queing with no penalty for the leaver.

 

When the team wins 20 games (which is very rare and hard to do) they would get a nice gold bump and go back to HoTM. Think about how much toxicity would be naturally eliminated if you weren’t just sitting in a game with randoms for 6-10 minutes and then you never see them again.
 

There needs to be a purpose for building a relationship in this game, investing in trying to help other players learn and get better. What would be better for cultivating team work and a teaching environment than trying to get your random team to 20 wins in a row in the arena?

 

Currently there is no benefit to being nice and not being an elitist kitten because once that game ends who cares. The bad players go back to being bad players and the grumpy toxic players do the same, we need to cultivate team work in this game and GW1 PVP had that right. I don’t know why they didn’t continue that here? It seems like a obvious fix and would solve multiple problems at the same time.

 

Just the fun and competitiveness of that one good team out there that you hope to beat with your random team of 5 can be exciting. And when it does happen, that’s a really nice feeling of success. This change would also set up players to contribute and join more AT’s and MAT’s (making them more competitive in the long term.) 

 

Let’s make it happen guys, at least as a test in the off-season.

It's a great idea! Love the nostalgia, too...

 

I'm sadly not convinced that it would fix the toxicity in the environment (that has a lot more to do with human nature and people needing to grow the F up), but I agree that it would foster random groups of people getting to know each other and hopefully playing with each other again in the future.

 

59 minutes ago, FrownyClown.8402 said:

It could work but only as a solo q. Plus snowballing is a big deal. Once its 4v5 its hard to make a comeback, partly due to downstate. Id love to try it, but anet.

 

 

I don't think it would have to be solo queue...I think you could make it work with dual queue like is currently in Ranked. No more than that, though, or else it's just a tourny team without it being a tournament.

 

[Unknown.6851]

1 hour ago, Guirssane.7082 said:

You took the gw1 system and made it into gw2 basically. This isn't the same game

It isn’t the same game, it’s objectively much better in PvP in terms of team comps and would fit this structure nicely I think. In guild wars 1, a team without a monk healer going against a team with a monk healer. The team without immediately /resigns. This wouldn’t be an issue here as we all know as teams without support healers beat teams with them all the time.

 

 

Edited September 4, 2021 by noobfest.2180

[Disney.7826]

Toxicity is the smallest problem and it exist in every single competitive game. Gw2 isnt toxic at all compared to LOL.

 

u wanna trade less toxicity for more match manipulating? Worst thing i have heard this year

[Unknown.6851]

3 hours ago, Filip.7463 said:

Toxicity is the smallest problem and it exist in every single competitive game. Gw2 isnt toxic at all compared to LOL.

 

u wanna trade less toxicity for more match manipulating? Worst thing i have heard this year

The toxicity comments were only because it originally was a response in a “toxic players” thread and how to resolve that issue.

 

I think this can go much further than helping to deal with toxicity. Win trading is a problem, but one only found in ranked. I’m not talking about ranked here, I’m thinking more on building a community and player engagement.
 

Heck, this could be run exclusively in off season mode or in Unranked (where it could honestly fit very nicely as a training ground for ranked and ATs) if ranked is deemed more important to the game overall. GW1 PvP never had a ranked system and had a very healthy community where you would almost never see the same players in the que. Players just enjoyed the random 5v5 and the chance to meet new people, see new ideas, and beat competitive teams, while honing their own skills and learning their place in a team oriented game.

Edited September 5, 2021 by noobfest.2180

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

3 hours ago, noobfest.2180 said:

The toxicity comments were only because it originally was a response in a “toxic players” thread and how to resolve that issue.

 

I think this can go much further than helping to deal with toxicity. Win trading is a problem, but one only found in ranked. I’m not talking about ranked here, I’m thinking more on building a community and player engagement.
 

Heck, this could be run exclusively in off season mode or in Unranked (where it could honestly fit very nicely as a training ground for ranked and ATs) if ranked is deemed more important to the game overall. GW1 PvP never had a ranked system and had a very healthy community where you would almost never see the same players in the que. Players just enjoyed the random 5v5 and the chance to meet new people, see new ideas, and beat competitive teams, while honing their own skills and learning their place in a team oriented game.

Well said.

 

Not sure where the earlier "match manipulation" comment came from...there is nothing inherent in what you've described that would lead to any more match manipulation than is already present. If I understand you correctly, we'd be matchmaking the same as we do presently but the winning team stays together until they lose. As long as it remains a solo-queue or dual-queue system, I don't see any new ways of manipulating matches.

[RedAvenged.5217]

43 minutes ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

Well said.

 

Not sure where the earlier "match manipulation" comment came from...there is nothing inherent in what you've described that would lead to any more match manipulation than is already present. If I understand you correctly, we'd be matchmaking the same as we do presently but the winning team stays together until they lose. As long as it remains a solo-queue or dual-queue system, I don't see any new ways of manipulating matches.

Only way would be stream sniping, which I’d admit might work for the person that’s dodging but it’ll just bring the teams that they dodged rating even higher.

 

I have zero sympathy for streamers and q dodgers though...

[Disney.7826]

11 hours ago, noobfest.2180 said:

The toxicity comments were only because it originally was a response in a “toxic players” thread and how to resolve that issue.

 

I think this can go much further than helping to deal with toxicity. Win trading is a problem, but one only found in ranked. I’m not talking about ranked here, I’m thinking more on building a community and player engagement.
 

Heck, this could be run exclusively in off season mode or in Unranked (where it could honestly fit very nicely as a training ground for ranked and ATs) if ranked is deemed more important to the game overall. GW1 PvP never had a ranked system and had a very healthy community where you would almost never see the same players in the que. Players just enjoyed the random 5v5 and the chance to meet new people, see new ideas, and beat competitive teams, while honing their own skills and learning their place in a team oriented game.

Im not talking about wintrading but match manipulation.

Toxicity isnt the problem and no one cares about solving it. The game isnt dead cuz toxic players but cuz matchmaking is already easy manipulatable (not wintrading) and because condi bunker meta is dogshit.

[Disney.7826]

7 hours ago, RedAvenged.5217 said:

Only way would be stream sniping, which I’d admit might work for the person that’s dodging but it’ll just bring the teams that they dodged rating even higher.

 

I have zero sympathy for streamers and q dodgers though...

No. Top players will have a deal to snipe each other into same team and then farm randoms till eternity.

[Genesis.5169]

Or, just allow premades back in ranked and relationship building and teambuilding will grow naturally. But the gw2 community doesn't actually want that.

 

You see the gw2 community wants to stack the deck in there favor before the game even starts that means, no teams because there's a chance you maybe more coordinated then them and that can't happen because getting beaten in game is horrible, also no class thats difficult to play is allowed to be good because they can't play them.

 

Also too many options is bad because its too hard to pick the right one, we should only have good options so you can't be outsmarted at the trailine and statline just constantly stacking the deck before the game boots because they can't be bothered to learn or make friends or experiment.

Edited September 5, 2021 by Genesis.5169
Clarity.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

this is great man, i liked that aspect of random arena. brings back sweet memories of me being bad lol

[witcher.3197]

On 9/4/2021 at 9:57 PM, noobfest.2180 said:

Currently there is no benefit to being nice and not being an elitist kitten because once that game ends who cares. The bad players go back to being bad players and the grumpy toxic players do the same, we need to cultivate team work in this game and GW1 PVP had that right. I don’t know why they didn’t continue that here? It seems like a obvious fix and would solve multiple problems at the same time.

 

Okay so 2 things.

 

The average RA game lasted like ~2-3 minutes, maybe more on priest maps. A lot of stomps against monkless teams ended in ~1 minute, and long games were like 5 mins.

 

With Conquest games the average duration is about 9 minutes and even 12+ is a real possibility. Good luck getting people to commit to 20 runs in one sitting + waiting for matchmaking.

 

Second, GW2 tried something like this at launch. And let me tell you, it was toxic as hell. Even worse than now. If you hardcarried a game you were forced to play with the same group for the next game where you could once again tryhard or just throw to go again. People weren't nice, instead they spent 3 rounds verbally abusing the same people they were stuck in a group with. Better players shittalked the weaker links on the team so both sides almost kind of wanted to lose so they could get away from the other one.

 

Or even if people within the group had similar skill levels but you disagreed with the rotations it'd be endless flaming both during and between games.

Edited September 6, 2021 by witcher.3197

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

16 minutes ago, witcher.3197 said:

Okay so 2 things.

 

The average RA game lasted like ~2-3 minutes, maybe more on priest maps. A lot of stomps against monkless teams ended in ~1 minute, and long games were like 5 mins.

 

With Conquest games the average duration is about 9 minutes and even 12+ is a real possibility. Good luck getting people to commit to 20 runs in one sitting + waiting for matchmaking.

 

Second, GW2 tried something like this at launch. And let me tell you, it was toxic as hell. Even worse than now. If you hardcarried a game you were forced to play with the same group for the next game where you could once again tryhard or just throw to go again. People weren't nice, instead they spent 3 rounds verbally abusing the same people they were stuck in a group with. Better players shittalked the weaker links on the team so both sides almost kind of wanted to lose so they could get away from the other one.

 

Or even if people within the group had similar skill levels but you disagreed with the rotations it'd be endless flaming both during and between games.

Fair points. Jerks will be jerks, and no matchmaking system is immune to that. 

 

The OP did mention that you could leave when you wanted; you didn't have to stay with a team, so I think alot of what you're describing could be avoided.

 

The 20 game streak is an arbitrary number. You could make a tiered achievement out of it: 5 pts for 3 wins, 7 more for 5 wins, 15 for 10 wins, etc.  Maybe bigger prizes at "milestone" wins like 5, 10, 15, etc.

 

 

[montecristo.1324]

I love this idea.

I always wanted this implemented in the game.

Either this or allow team queue in ranked