Nonstop Trolling of Tactics in Tier 1

[HARDOFREADING.7298]

 Why is this allowed to continue?

 It's blatant cheating.

If you can't control the cheating you are rewarding the team that abuses this without fail.

I'll ask again....Why is this allowed to continue?

Disable or remove Tactics until a solution exists to curb this childishness

[Xenesis.6389]

Sooooo what's the difference between tactics being trolled and not having it at all? Either way the defenders lose, but at least one way there's a chance you might get to use them at the right time. Dunno why people get so worked up over tactivators.

 

P.S I think the more problematic issue is spying in general, especially those that actively use multiple accounts to spy on enemy movements and commanders. Frankly free to play accounts should be disabled from WvW, it's probably only a very small percentage of accounts that are used this way, but it's a start. FF14 earlier this year disabled their trials accounts from participating in pvp sections, to cut down on the hackers and bot accounts.

Edited September 6, 2021 by Xenesis.6389

[Strider Pj.2193]

Huh..,  here I thought this happens in all tiers..

 

Guess maybe we only disable them in T1 matchups then..

[moutzaheadin.4029]

Turn them off for public use. Done.

[Metzie.3012]

When a game, mode or system has reached a certain level (i.e. when the developer leaves a mode 95% to itself) and no longer satisfies players sufficiently (not for nothing are there players with multiple server accounts, which may not even have been intended for "trolling" in the first place), such players become increasingly creative and have to compensate with such actions. Such players are usually just bored (also because the mode doesn't offer more).

Basically, it only reflects what the developers make or have made or have not made of it. An example: As an organiser, you create rules, modify or adjust them as needed, and you have to make sure that they are adhered to - for the good of all. This only happens here (in this case at ANet) in extreme cases, and only when the outcry of the community is so high that the game maker can no longer avoid changing something.

 

23 hours ago, HARDOFREADING.7298 said:

Disable or remove Tactics until a solution exists to curb this childishness

Your suggestion is (meanwhile) also no solution (anymore). You can only wait and see what ANet has in mind for the future (with Eod and the mode). 

 

23 hours ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

Frankly free to play accounts should be disabled from WvW, it's probably only a very small percentage of accounts that are used this way, but it's a start.

This is an opinion that many advocate ...

However, I personally think this is the laziest solution (which would or could basically speak for ANet - sorry for the side blow). So, it will not happen in that form. ANet already brings some restrictions with F2P accounts. These should be further adjusted, especially with regard to the PvP modes. And in such a way that it is more difficult for trolls to abuse them. In other words, that the effort is so high that it is not worth it.

As an example, ANet could, as is generally the case with many apps, introduce a time-limited access (a trial period) that applies from the moment WvW is entered (with the restrictions already in place, access at level 60). Let it be 30+ days.

 

22 hours ago, moutzaheadin.4029 said:

Turn them off for public use. Done.

The answer is about as lazy as the current system of tactics, that is, the possibility of (ab)using them.

Of course, everyone is represented in every guild and, above all, always online when it would be necessary .... to realise YOUR clever suggestion.

Edited September 7, 2021 by Metzie.3012
The 95% is a personally chosen and felt number, not an actual one.

[Xenesis.6389]

2 minutes ago, Metzie.3012 said:

When a game, mode or system has reached a certain level (i.e. when the developer leaves a mode 95% to itself) and no longer satisfies players sufficiently (not for nothing are there players with multiple server accounts, which may not even have been intended for "trolling" in the first place), such players become increasingly creative and have to compensate with such actions. Such players are usually just bored (also because the mode doesn't offer more).

Basically, it only reflects what the developers make or have made or have not made of it. An example: As an organiser, you create rules, modify or adjust them as needed, and you have to make sure that they are adhered to - for the good of all. This only happens here (in this case at ANet) in extreme cases, and only when the outcry of the community is so high that the game maker can no longer avoid changing something.

 

Your suggestion is (meanwhile) also no solution (anymore). You can only wait and see what ANet has in mind for the future (with Eod and the mode). 

 

This is an opinion that many advocate ...

However, I personally think this is the laziest solution (which would or could basically speak for ANet - sorry for the side blow). So, it will not happen in that form. ANet already brings some restrictions with F2P accounts. These should be further adjusted, especially with regard to the PvP modes. And in such a way that it is more difficult for trolls to abuse them. In other words, that the effort is so high that it is not worth it.

As an example, ANet could, as is generally the case with many apps, introduce a time-limited access (a trial period) that applies from the moment WvW is entered (with the restrictions already in place, access at level 60). Let it be 30+ days.

 

The answer is about as lazy as the current system of tactics, that is, the possibility of using them.

Of course, everyone is represented in every guild and, above all, always online when it would be necessary .... to realise YOUR clever suggestion. LMAO, holy moly ...

 

Well I said it would be a start, not a complete solution. If you think that or turning off public use is also lazy, then there's really only one solution left and that would be to completely take them out, because even paid accounts troll the tactivators.

 

What exactly do you think they are going to do with EoD? They obviously won't take them out, they won't implement a "name and shame" system to be abused by players, so what exactly would you expect to change in regards to tactivators?

[Metzie.3012]

21 hours ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

If you think that or turning off public use is also lazy, ...

You seem to have ignored the additional sentence in connection with the comment?

Activating or deactivating (public/private tactivators) is reserved for players who belong to the guild that claims the object. And those are often not online or available at the time to respond to "trolls". That's what was meant by "lazy" when it comes to tactics.

 

21 hours ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

... even paid accounts troll the tactivators.

Yes, of course. It was basically not exclusively related to "F2P accounts". A possible solution or suggestion, see below.

 

21 hours ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

What exactly do you think they are going to do with EoD?

My mistake was bringing or mentioning EoD in connection with WvW. Basically, those are two different things that don't necessarily have to be connected. I should rather have referred to the statement "WvW as a cornerstone". And as a result of that statement (by ANet) WvW will get more attention (in the future). 

But to answer your question anyway. I don't know, and I'm not speculating because it's not worth the time.

 

21 hours ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

They obviously won't take them out, they won't implement a "name and shame" system to be abused by players, so what exactly would you expect to change in regards to tactivators?

They don't have to ... take them out. What I personally could imagine, as far as the issue with tactics is concerned, is that they make adjustments that improve the current state. ANet could include and expand the "rank and ability system" and/or the advantage of "being a member of a guild that has already reached a certain rank" in terms of the expansion of WvW areas.

Concrete example: A player must assign X rank points in "Rank and Abilities" in order to be able to use Tactivators. Or be in a guild that has already expanded this part.

There are certainly other possibilities, ideas or alternatives.

 

Edited September 7, 2021 by Metzie.3012

[Xenesis.6389]

4 minutes ago, Metzie.3012 said:

You seem to have ignored the additional sentence in connection with the comment?

Activating or deactivating (public/private tactivators) is reserved for players who belong to the guild that claims the object. And those are often not online or available at the time to respond to "trolls". That's what was meant by "lazy" when it comes to tactics.

 

Yeah, of course. A possible solution or suggestion, see below.

 

My mistake was bringing or mentioning EoD in connection with WvW. Basically, those are two different things that don't necessarily have to be connected. I should rather have referred to the statement "WvW as a cornerstone". And as a result of that statement (by ANet) WvW will get more attention (in the future). 

But to answer your question anyway. I don't know, and I'm not speculating because it's not worth the time (any longer, because it's ANet).

 

They don't have to ... take them out. What I personally could imagine, as far as the issue with tactics is concerned, is that they make adjustments that improve the current state. ANet could include and expand the "rank and ability system" and/or the advantage of "being a member of a guild that has already reached a certain rank" in terms of the expansion of WvW areas.

Concrete example: A player must assign X rank points in "Rank and Abilities" in order to be able to use Tactivators. Or be in a guild that has already expanded this part.

There are certainly other possibilities, ideas or alternatives.

 

 

That doesn't exactly prevent trolls from activating them still, you're just raising the limit to those that could from newbie to veteran, not much different than cutting off f2p accounts from wvw.

 

[Metzie.3012]

6 minutes ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

 

That doesn't exactly prevent trolls from activating them still, you're just raising the limit to those that could from newbie to veteran, not much different than cutting off f2p accounts from wvw.

 

 

2 hours ago, Metzie.3012 said:

And in such a way that it is more difficult for trolls to abuse them. In other words, that the effort is so high that it is not worth it.

I'll quote myself or an excerpt. And that's what it's about ... nothing more, nothing less. I think you should slowly but surely have understood what it's all about.

Edited September 7, 2021 by Metzie.3012
In this sense: I am out

[Xenesis.6389]

1 minute ago, Metzie.3012 said:

 

I'll quote myself or an excerpt. And that's what it's about ... nothing more, nothing less. I think you should slowly but surely have understood what it's all about.

 

You don't even suggest how much points would go into this, what exactly would be "the effort is so high" to you, or should be to the average player.

 

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

5 hours ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

Sooooo what's the difference between tactics being trolled and not having it at all? Either way the defenders lose, but at least one way there's a chance you might get to use them at the right time. Dunno why people get so worked up over tactivators.

 

P.S I think the more problematic issue is spying in general, especially those that actively use multiple accounts to spy on enemy movements and commanders. Frankly free to play accounts should be disabled from WvW, it's probably only a very small percentage of accounts that are used this way, but it's a start. FF14 earlier this year disabled their trials accounts from participating in pvp sections, to cut down on the hackers and bot accounts.

WvW is literally the only reason to have an F2P account, so this is a bad idea. The devs have even implied that WvW is the central focus of the F2P game versions and what keeps them afloat.

 

You'll never stop spying, it exists in every RvR game, and many players can afford multiple paid accounts.

 

Also, I've carefully watched Tactics trolls before and I've found that most of them turn out to just be newbies, who instinctively interact with the object because it looks like a node of some kind. Alt accounts meant for trolling are obvious as they usually have low AP due to being fresh. Higher tier servers just have more players, thus more accidents.

 

Good commanders don't need to have spies pull tactics. They just probe the building with enough force to cause their activation then pull off until they're on cooldown. Its not rocket science. I'm not sure spies actually accomplish anything in this game that isn't just as easily, if not more easily accomplished by some other means.

 

The only significant issue seems to be Comm targetting/sniping. And even then, anyone who plays against a server long enough will be able to recognise all their Comms by appearance, rank and guild name.

 

Compared to everything else going on with WvW, spies are a practically non-existent problem.

Edited September 7, 2021 by Hannelore.8153

[Xenesis.6389]

2 minutes ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

WvW is literally the only reason to have an F2P account, so this is a bad idea. The devs have even implied that WvW is the central focus of the F2P game versions and what keeps them afloat.

 

You'll never stop spying, it exists in every RvR game, and most players can afford multiple paid accounts.

 

Oh really? And where did the devs imply that wvw is the central focus of f2p?

Is it that why they made wvw available on paid accounts at 31 but free accounts at 60? it's you know, 3/4 of the way through pve leveling, but yeah totally wvw focused there. The cash shop keeps them afloat.

 

The f2p version is a trial account, meant to let players try the "game" and hopefully get them to buy the expansions, not just extra accounts to play "Wvw" wherever.

 

🙄

[Chips.7968]

14 hours ago, HARDOFREADING.7298 said:

 Why is this allowed to continue?

 It's blatant cheating.

If you can't control the cheating you are rewarding the team that abuses this without fail.

I'll ask again....Why is this allowed to continue?

Disable or remove Tactics until a solution exists to curb this childishness

 

Not a single solution offered.

 

What's the "trolling of tactics", is it utilising a sub-optimal tactic at the expense of the generally accepted "best option available" tactic. Is sub optimal tactic worse than no tactic? Otherwise "remove tactics" is an insane request. e.g. it means no tactics at any location for ANY server. So unless everyone uniformly always has 100% troll tactics placed on every single objective ever claimed at all hours of the day, you're going to do more dmg than good by removing tactics full stop. All for your selfish "hammer, nut, SMASH".

 

It'd be better/easier just to remove guild claims - as after all, you could "troll" by having a guild with zero buffs claiming the desired objective (either directly, or engineered by de-claiming via one guild, and then claiming with troll guild) and then either placing those "troll" tactics, or preventing tactics. But again, this is for everyone in the game mode to address *YOUR* grievance. 

 

So, a bit over the top, ill thought out shrill request isn't it?

 

I'm guessing you think there are optimal and then unwanted tactics. The ask is surely for Anet to rework tactics that you don't want into tactics that give a genuine tradeoff/choice. Methinks arguing why this'd be good for the game mode with suggestions to improve, of extra buffs on the unused, instead just shrill and lazy "its a TROLL - disable all" would be far more likely to succeed and gain traction.

 

Right now it appears you want things removed so no claims no tactics; hammer to smash a nut approach.

Or

You want only 1 possible tactic per choice to ensure ONLY the one you want is available. 

 

 

Amazing.

Edited September 7, 2021 by Chips.7968

[HARDOFREADING.7298]

  Not a single solution offered? LoL   I suggest you read it again and reassess.

As of last night when I left WvW....We had a person with my server possess the  claim on Lowlands keep...fighting  against us... for the Red team. It's a massive advantage to a team with no integrity fighting a team with integrity. It's been broken. It's always been broken since inception. It's a safe bet one of the reasons nothing has ever been done is because of the reason I just stated. There are are a myriad numbers of ways this is and always has been exploited by people and will continue to be exploited.

   As more and more new players come into WvW and they see these (imo) broken design features exploited, it conveys a very bad look overall. It's about marketability and the bottom line.

     One particularly heinous and glaring problem with WvW is this...Why is a team rewarded for taking a home keep, then allowed to build 30+ pieces of siege, shell spawn nonstop and that team that just lost their Keep not allowed to build siege in a zone (ie Spawn) to counter ?

     If you truly want to stop stifling competition....You would remove cannons from 3rd floor of SMC.  You would not allow an enemy home keep to be upgraded with a Waypoint or tactics.

   When a system in a game is designed in such a way as to encourage exploitation, it gets exploited. The fights should be in SMC throne room and in Keeps, not where you're allowed to exploit (imo) half-baked and poorly thought out ideas to stifle legitimate competition because people say "This isn't fun" and just leave.

     The idea that an enemy can build virtually limitless siege and shell a spawn of an enemy nonstop so that it forces the team trapped in spawn to be easily farmed or just quit is a poor idea (imo) in game design as a whole.

     They want to build in your home keep....Fine....Get rid of tactics and waypoints in that home keep.  Allow the team whose home keep it is,  to build siege in a place that can actually have an effect on the battle at hand.

     The simple reality is the status quo for almost 9 years with regards to some of these wvw features STIFLES COMPETITION.

Things that can be exploited will be exploited. The reality is that Anet is unwilling or unable to mandate fixes for almost anything but they can do the right thing and stop stifling competition by changing a few lines of code with little time/effort/expense.

          Commence Seltzer Fire

[Strider Pj.2193]

I for one didn’t offer ‘solutions’ as I don’t feel it’s a problem.  
 

If you truly believe tactic trolling ‘stifles competition’ I just don’t know what to say..

 

So many other things in WvW need addressing..,  Tactics are low on the list.

[ASP.8093]

Is this about Blackgate or TC?

[HARDOFREADING.7298]

  Guy with 6k posts has an opinion about a quote not even attributed to him.  Shocking  LoL

[Strider Pj.2193]

And yet that poster actually posted a comment on topic,  huh…

[Dagger.2035]

Maybe if tactics could be assigned an alliance permission then that would grant access to a larger number of players and those players would be vetted by the alliance.

Edited September 7, 2021 by Dagger.2035

[LetoII.3782]

Airboats are too cool to leave in the box

[Strider Pj.2193]

2 hours ago, Dagger.2035 said:

Maybe if tactics could be assigned an alliance permission then that would grant access to a larger number of players and those players would be vetted by the alliance.

So, if you are part of a secon alliance or not part of that alliance and on the same world, you won’t have access to them?  
 

Hmm..  I think the flameage would even be worse lol.

[Chips.7968]

8 hours ago, HARDOFREADING.7298 said:

  Not a single solution offered? LoL   I suggest you read it again and reassess.

As of last night when I left WvW....We had a person with my server possess the  claim on Lowlands keep...fighting  against us... for the Red team. It's a massive advantage to a team with no integrity fighting a team with integrity. It's been broken. It's always been broken since inception. It's a safe bet one of the reasons nothing has ever been done is because of the reason I just stated. There are are a myriad numbers of ways this is and always has been exploited by people and will continue to be exploited.

   As more and more new players come into WvW and they see these (imo) broken design features exploited, it conveys a very bad look overall. It's about marketability and the bottom line.

     One particularly heinous and glaring problem with WvW is this...Why is a team rewarded for taking a home keep, then allowed to build 30+ pieces of siege, shell spawn nonstop and that team that just lost their Keep not allowed to build siege in a zone (ie Spawn) to counter ?

     If you truly want to stop stifling competition....You would remove cannons from 3rd floor of SMC.  You would not allow an enemy home keep to be upgraded with a Waypoint or tactics.

   When a system in a game is designed in such a way as to encourage exploitation, it gets exploited. The fights should be in SMC throne room and in Keeps, not where you're allowed to exploit (imo) half-baked and poorly thought out ideas to stifle legitimate competition because people say "This isn't fun" and just leave.

     The idea that an enemy can build virtually limitless siege and shell a spawn of an enemy nonstop so that it forces the team trapped in spawn to be easily farmed or just quit is a poor idea (imo) in game design as a whole.

     They want to build in your home keep....Fine....Get rid of tactics and waypoints in that home keep.  Allow the team whose home keep it is,  to build siege in a place that can actually have an effect on the battle at hand.

     The simple reality is the status quo for almost 9 years with regards to some of these wvw features STIFLES COMPETITION.

Things that can be exploited will be exploited. The reality is that Anet is unwilling or unable to mandate fixes for almost anything but they can do the right thing and stop stifling competition by changing a few lines of code with little time/effort/expense.

          Commence Seltzer Fire

 

Sorry, after reading this you'll have to explain what part of "troll tactics" is relevant to the long post. I honestly don't see it.

 

If your idea of suggestion is "remove it or fix it", then that's remarkable. 

 

I don't see a problem with tactics, much less "troll" behaviour that warrants removing it from the game mode for every single server... at the behest of you.

Edited September 7, 2021 by Chips.7968

[CrimsonRise.7650]

You do realize Winning or staying in T1 is meaningless these days, especially with this current linking system?

 

I don't it as a major issue that needs to be addressed, unlike population imbalance and then actually making the ppt side of WvW relevant, besides trying to find the best tiers to fight against servers you actually want to fight.

 

 

Edited September 7, 2021 by CrimsonNeonite.1048

[Veeber.3192]

Have a global message "Username has pulled Emergency Waypoint at Servername Garrison!" displayed like when capping an objective!

Edited September 8, 2021 by Veeber.3192

[Strider Pj.2193]

3 hours ago, Veeber.3192 said:

Have a global message "Username has pulled Emergency Waypoint at Servername Garrison!" displayed like when capping an objective!

To what end?  
 

What good does it do?

 

A troll will LOVE the advertisement, and a new player who doesn’t understand will get ostracized.  
 

Help me here.., What is the benefit?