Love the concept of Untamed and how it works so far

[Arheundel.6451]

35 minutes ago, Levetty.1279 said:

Untamed does not provide any significant aoe and ultimately its not a pet focused elite spec. I don't know why you keep saying these things. 

Should have specified then....Untamed provides significant aoe respect to other ranger specs and I am quite happy about that

[Arheundel.6451]

23 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

So no gameplay or logs?

arcdps has WvW logs.

The only place I said I could see this maybe working is PVP teamfight but the numbers aren't there and CC do zero damage. There's no point in 5 target AoE if you can only hit 3 people on average at most in melee , with hammer the only weapon having unleashed at all.

Untamed doesn't even have a real stunbreak option meaning it is more or less core ranger without either beastmastery or marksmanship (you would still run Wilderness Survival unless you have outside supports).

Also I already posted my thoughts on catalyst. I play all 9 classes so I don't know what that part is about.

I dunno why you claim that CC does no dmg...when everybody can read tooltips indicating bonus dmg on CCed targets with a base dmg of 1k I believe depending on unleashed state but again...furthermore ranger has already got access to some very strong stunbreaks from core, whoever said that we must have a stunbreak with each new utility line

 

I consider elementalist specs or similar as a benchmark, it's easy for me to dismiss then any claim that untamed does no respectable dmg. I have clearly mentioned that untamed still need some minor changes but what shown so far is not at the same garbage level of willbender or catalyst.

 

I am satisfied with what has been shown so far, anything else from this point will be an addition and not a necessity to buy the game exp

[Infusion.7149]

11 minutes ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

I dunno why you claim that CC does no dmg...when everybody can read tooltips indicating bonus dmg on CCed targets with a base dmg of 1k I believe depending on unleashed state but again...furthermore ranger has already got access to some very strong stunbreaks from core, whoever said that we must have a stunbreak with each new utility line

 

I consider elementalist specs or similar as a benchmark, it's easy for me to dismiss then any claim that untamed does no respectable dmg. I have clearly mentioned that untamed still need some minor changes but what shown so far is not at the same garbage level of willbender or catalyst.

 

I am satisfied with what has been shown so far, anything else from this point will be an addition and not a necessity to buy the game exp

CC skills do no damage. How is that hard to comprehend?

Thump definitely has 0.01 coefficient in competitive.

Even Overbearing Smash which is more of an omission on their part is 0.3 coefficient in competitive, with a +20% damage increase that is auto-attack level damage.

If you think Unleashed Savage Shock Wave does extra damage it really doesn't. The power coefficient I calculated in competitive is 0.5 meaning even with +20% it is a 0.7 coefficient.

Similarly when I calculated Unleashed Overbearing Smash it came out to 0.3 coefficient , below autoattack levels of damage.

Likewise for Unleashed Thump which has a long cast time that makes the ~1.36 coefficient not have a huge payoff over autoing.

All this while somehow having to make up a 300 ferocity merged bonus.

Edited October 27, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Puck.3697]

14 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Post logs or gameplay instead of wild claims. Untamed starts with a weapon that doesn't have extreme coefficients, has a 15% max damage mod (without any mods from beastmastery line since you aren't merged) , and is partially reliant on pet AI for DPS.

why post gameplay, just try it urself, lol. Soulbeast Does 37k DPS odd... go try match that with Untamed... highest DPS I got to was about 17k With legendary Weapons. (Granted armour isnt ascended can trade gear) Scholar Runes etc etc put in + Food and buffs

Please so quickly to dismiss complaints.. its bad lol.... like almost all of them have been

Edited October 27, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Infusion.7149]

1 minute ago, Daddy.8125 said:

why post gameplay, just try it urself, lol. Soulbeast Does 37k DPS odd... go try match that with Untamed... highest DPS I got to was about 17k With legendary Weapons. (Granted armour isnt ascended can trade gear) Scholar Runes etc etc put in + Food and buffs

Was more for Arheundel.6451

I have full legendary except hammer (have Exordium though for Greatsword) and when I tested wasn't impressed in PVE or WVW.

I can't see it being run on Marauder because even on Berserker's the damage isn't high enough to be enticing and baseline is +240 vitality. From playing it the hammer skills share cooldown between Unleash states, so it's worse than if they were all flip chain skills similar to how greatsword works because you're gated by Unleash Ranger too. If I use Thump I'm locked out of using Unleashed Thump for example.

[Puck.3697]

5 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Was more for Arheundel.6451

I have full legendary except hammer (have Exordium though for Greatsword) and when I tested wasn't impressed in PVE or WVW.

I can't see it being run on Marauder because even on Berserker's the damage isn't high enough to be enticing and baseline is +240 vitality. From playing it the hammer skills share cooldown between Unleash states, so it's worse than if they were all flip chain skills similar to how greatsword works because you're gated by Unleash Ranger too. If I use Thump I'm locked out of using Unleashed Thump for example.

its a Specc with 0 Support, no support potiental, Pure DPS Its Rangers Weaver.. even if it matchs Soulbeast in DPS.. the buggy AI and problems with pets will make Soulbeast the better choice.

If it isnt better then soulbeast its Trash in PvE.. if it isnt better then core in PvP its Trash in PvP.

this concept of "its fine ti play Sub optimally" is Ridiculous.. ur Just in other words throwing the game.. and currently theres no reason to play untamed..

best i can see is it maybe make a good open world build for soloing content Maybe... but even then the engis new mech specc does it better.

Edited October 27, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Infusion.7149]

8 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

its a Specc with 0 Support, no support potiental, Pure DPS Its Rangers Weaver.. even if it matchs Soulbeast in DPS.. the buggy AI and problems with pets will make Soulbeast the better choice.

If it isnt better then soulbeast its Trash in PvE.. if it isnt better then core in PvP its Trash in PvP.

this concept of "its fine ti play Sub optimally" is Ridiculous.. ur Just in other words throwing the game.. and currently theres no reason to play untamed..

best i can see is it maybe make a good open world build for soloing content Maybe... but even then the engis new mech specc does it better.

Honestly it's cringey when the pets have 4-6K pet skill attack tooltips in WVW on Berserker gear (i.e. Call Lightning on Jacaranda , Kick on Rock Gazelle, or Spike Barrage on Bristleback) and the hammer has at most 1.4K which is inline with Maul on Greatsword. The Jacaranda immob and damage are better than the entire hammer.

[Puck.3697]

35 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Honestly it's cringey when the pets have 4-6K pet skill attack tooltips in WVW on Berserker gear (i.e. Call Lightning on Jacaranda , Kick on Rock Gazelle, or Spike Barrage on Bristleback) and the hammer has at most 1.4K which is inline with Maul on Greatsword. The Jacaranda immob and damage are better than the entire hammer.

as i say its half expected.. all the new elites have been released Pretty underpowered which i think is Intentional. if they release em OP and start having to nerf em people will doomsday their speccs before the expansion even comes out.

The question is... are the new elites showing the New path they want all the Elites to be altered to.. or are they intending to buff these uptoo current elite standards. i wont doomsday Untamed, but it isnt as of current comparable..

[anduriell.6280]

there is not mechanics to support the pet or hammer damage. i would buy the no damage because CC, even the shared cooldowns between the two modes but there is no synergy withing the weapon. 

It is literally impossinle to get advantage of the extra damage in wvw

[Arheundel.6451]

18 hours ago, anduriell.6280 said:

there is not mechanics to support the pet or hammer damage. i would buy the no damage because CC, even the shared cooldowns between the two modes but there is no synergy withing the weapon. 

It is literally impossinle to get advantage of the extra damage in wvw

There is a solid base concept for Untamed and that's what I rectified in the OP, numbers can and will change, functionalities can be added later but...the concept is there. The situation is definitely not as bad as with elementalist and guardian where the devs have zero clue.

[anduriell.6280]

2 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

There is a solid base concept for Untamed and that's what I rectified in the OP, numbers can and will change, functionalities can be added later but...the concept is there. The situation is definitely not as bad as with elementalist and guardian where the devs have zero clue.

Well yes, you are bringing a fantastic point. With ranger is always the same song, it is not completely broken so there is no excuse to rework it but still is just so extremely bad and unsatisfying that it leaves a bad taste in the mounth. 
With what the beta has shown us the Tamed would become another meme elite with just one trick pony build which nobody likes to play with and other people don't like to go against ( sicem power soulbeast gets old pretty fast, immob condi druid is just pure disgust...) and no other uses. 

I do really hope Anet to rework this elite from the ground up, what currently has been shown is even worse than Druid, even in pve there is no reason to use this. 

Edited October 28, 2021 by anduriell.6280

[Puck.3697]

1 hour ago, anduriell.6280 said:

Well yes, you are bringing a fantastic point. With ranger is always the same song, it is not completely broken so there is no excuse to rework it but still is just so extremely bad and unsatisfying that it leaves a bad taste in the mounth. 
With what the beta has shown us the Tamed would become another meme elite with just one trick pony build which nobody likes to play with and other people don't like to go against ( sicem power soulbeast gets old pretty fast, immob condi druid is just pure disgust...) and no other uses. 

I do really hope Anet to rework this elite from the ground up, what currently has been shown is even worse than Druid, even in pve there is no reason to use this. 

I don't think it needs a rework. 

The concept and idea is fine, the specc however things I'd like to see

- at a minimum the unleashed abilities change for ranged pets. 

- unleashed needs be not only affecting hammer 

- access to the pets base abilities while the pet is unleashed. 

- pet unleashed abilities bolstered up abit more. 

- return of the core pet controls. 

- a few traits need reworking. 

The third forced trait needs to increase by more damage. 15% isn't enough for the increased damage taken. 

Less focus on CC'd opponents with damage increases. 

Some form of access to some sorta utility (maybe quickness) at the cost of the DPS. 

- hammers damage needs to be increased by quite alot. 

- fix some of the bugs assossiated with ranger pets. 

I'd argue against soulbeast, I think soulbeast is actually really cool really. 

- unleashed abilities need seperate CDs.

- base CDs need reducing even if they have to nerf the CDR traits to allow for it. 

 

Edited October 28, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Arheundel.6451]

On 10/28/2021 at 5:41 PM, Daddy.8125 said:

I don't think it needs a rework. 

The concept and idea is fine, the specc however things I'd like to see

- at a minimum the unleashed abilities change for ranged pets. 

- unleashed needs be not only affecting hammer 

- access to the pets base abilities while the pet is unleashed. 

- pet unleashed abilities bolstered up abit more. 

- return of the core pet controls. 

- a few traits need reworking. 

The third forced trait needs to increase by more damage. 15% isn't enough for the increased damage taken. 

Less focus on CC'd opponents with damage increases. 

Some form of access to some sorta utility (maybe quickness) at the cost of the DPS. 

- hammers damage needs to be increased by quite alot. 

- fix some of the bugs assossiated with ranger pets. 

I'd argue against soulbeast, I think soulbeast is actually really cool really. 

- unleashed abilities need seperate CDs.

- base CDs need reducing even if they have to nerf the CDR traits to allow for it. 

 

By adding a sort of invulnerability to unleashed pet state, we would solve the issue of the pet dieing during zerg fights, therefore by forcing the player to choose between unleashed and core skills on the pet, we can justify my suggestion where yours would simply be a powercreep change, if the pet keeps its core skills while unleashed then....the idea of making pet invulnerable wouldn't really make sense balance wise.

-By adding conditional dmg modifier we add that layer of complexity so necessary for the game....the extra dmg on CC must stay and be focused on

-The adept trais need help, GM are mostly fine

-Hammer dmg is fine for the control it hopes to bring, if anything we need some sort of defensive mechanism...maybe on hammer

-Unleash only affecting hamer is a weird choice made to keep things simple...I don't think adding an unleash mode for the remaining weapons is possible at this point or even healthy for the class....being an ele main I can honestly say that more skill=more nerfs=worst result=most of the extra skill just end being useless and weak

-I really think that the pet should be invulnerable while unleashed, this would be justified by it losing the core skills and be not much of a danger like it may be with core ranger, actually it would be the perfect evolution:

1) core ranger - biger control of pets + free style

2)Druid - weaker pets for support

3) Soulbeast - Merge with pet and resurrect it

4)Untamed - pets are invulnerable while unleashed at the cost of core skill access

Edited October 30, 2021 by Arheundel.6451

[RedAvenged.5217]

I do agree with the part of about targeting of pets. Conditions need a serious buff at least, it seems that the pet skills are meant to be condi based yet however do neither of power or condi, so either buff both or give me my condi.

 

however this build is definitely a team fight boonbeast/ core ranger hybrid. I’m so sorry about that but in pvp there is no way to play this build except exactly a boonbeast/core ranger hybrid. Hammer team fight boon spam power, or condi trap boon spam condi- no other way is viable.

[Leonidrex.5649]

As is this spec is tragedy, both core and soulbeast have better control over the pet.
It sucks in all game modes, in every aspect.
Damage is pathetic, has bad mobility, bad CC, it has SOME survivability but its not even tanky tbh.
Mechanically, I actually like the concept, if they remove unleash CD, fix the pet targeting bugs, give hammer either a dodge, block or mobility ( preferably 1 mobility skill and 1 survivability skill, something akin to superspeed or short leap )
and the spec would be fun. When I close my eyes and imagine absolute control over the spec I can see myself using hammer flip skills and pet skills to combo my targets, but when I open my eyes hammer does 0 dmg, pet runs off after a thief, skills dont work and unleash has 10s cd so it cant be even use to combo anything. Sad noises as I think the spec has potential to be really nice given enough work.
I really want to be done with this e-spac as everything it has to offer has been a tragedy so far, but the untamed is still a shining light in the darkness, plz dont kitten it up man.

[Puck.3697]

18 hours ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

As is this spec is tragedy, both core and soulbeast have better control over the pet.
It sucks in all game modes, in every aspect.
Damage is pathetic, has bad mobility, bad CC, it has SOME survivability but its not even tanky tbh.
Mechanically, I actually like the concept, if they remove unleash CD, fix the pet targeting bugs, give hammer either a dodge, block or mobility ( preferably 1 mobility skill and 1 survivability skill, something akin to superspeed or short leap )
and the spec would be fun. When I close my eyes and imagine absolute control over the spec I can see myself using hammer flip skills and pet skills to combo my targets, but when I open my eyes hammer does 0 dmg, pet runs off after a thief, skills dont work and unleash has 10s cd so it cant be even use to combo anything. Sad noises as I think the spec has potential to be really nice given enough work.
I really want to be done with this e-spac as everything it has to offer has been a tragedy so far, but the untamed is still a shining light in the darkness, plz dont kitten it up man.

Tbh the damage factor is doable. 

- remove shared CDs on hammer. 

- increase the damage of the hammers unleashed abilities. 

- allow pets to use their base abilities while they are unleashed. 

- increase the damage modifier when unleashed on the forced trait. 

Mobility. 

Well tbh the mobility of the other speccs is about the same. Majority of our mobility was created by weapon attacks. 

Just add some leap skills to the hammer and that will likely sort it out alittle bit. Maybe reduce the CD on the teleport abit 

Survivability. I'm guessing the easiest way would be to increase the vitality gain from the trees trait upwards abit more.

Add where the player is unleashed increases DMG taken by 15% when pets unleashed the ranger takes 15% less damage 

Pet fixs would be very nice also. 

Return core pet control via additional keybinds. It adds to the list we already have but they are needed. 

Some changes I'd like to see also:

Remove the weird green effect. 

Add Condi damage to the egg explosion cantrip. 

Reduce the access to CDR and reduce some of the ability CDs. 

Rework some of the traits adding damage to disabled enemies. It's Oki to have some but currently it's far too dependent on it.  Trade them with some Condi based traits. 

Give the specc atleast some access to some utility. Seems whack to have a pure DPS Knowing this design didn't do well for weaver. 

Even if we just get aegis / protection access. Give us something. 

Make a ranged variant of unleashed abilities for ranged pets. 

Make the unleashed abilities more meaningful 

Edited November 1, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[InsaneQR.7412]

Honestly IMO untamed is great taste but horrible execution. But thats mainly because they want to give more emphasize on the pet, which in itself is horribly outdated and buggy.