Thoughts on the Untamed from a Ranger with 2K hours of experience

[Obtena.7952]

1 hour ago, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

The velocity increase did not increase the damage you could do against stationary targets, correct.

OK good ... so this nonsense is done with. Too bad you ever brought it up to begin with. 

But it's clear you're still not understanding here; the context of the poster I was replying to had NOTHING to do with how individual weapon skill parameters can impact overall weapon DPS output. It was VERY CLEAR the statement the poster was making and you are ignoring it to perpetuate an irrelevant argument with me. 

Just dumping 80% more DPS on hammer is NOT a fix for what is wrong with Untamed, full stop. Just because you think you have some convoluted proof that Anet has buffed some weapon DPS to infinity in PVP because skills have increased probability to hit players does not change that. 

Edited November 15, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

2 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

OK good ... so this nonsense is done with. Too bad you ever brought it up to begin with. 

But it's clear you're still not understanding here; the context of the poster I was replying to had NOTHING to do with how individual weapon skill parameters can impact overall weapon DPS output. It was VERY CLEAR the statement the poster was making and you are ignoring it to perpetuate an irrelevant argument with me. 

Just dumping 80% more DPS on hammer is NOT a fix for what is wrong with Untamed, full stop. Just because you think you have some convoluted proof that Anet has buffed some weapon DPS to infinity in PVP because skills have increased probability to hit players does not change that. 

I don't care about the context under which you made an incorrect assertion, I was just correcting you. So, yes, this nonsense is done with.

[Substance E.4852]

20 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Bottomline: You just didn't understand what you read.

Bold words for someone who apparently thought "buff the hammer by 80%" meant buffing the actual item damage

Edited November 15, 2021 by Substance E.4852

[Obtena.7952]

2 hours ago, Substance E.4852 said:

Bold words for someone who apparently thought "buff the hammer by 80%" meant buffing the actual item damage

You keep telling me I'm misinterpreting but you don't step up and clarify what you think he meant in his response to me either. But no problem, here is your chance. What do you think this means? 

I could see anet buffing hammer damage in pve by ~80% and calling it a day
hopefully after they fix the pet

 

Edited November 16, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

4 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

You keep telling me I'm misinterpreting but you don't step up and clarify what you think he meant in his response to me either. But no problem, here is your chance. What do you think this means? 

I could see anet buffing hammer damage in pve by ~80% and calling it a day
hopefully after they fix the pet

 

I think a better question is what exactly do you think it means? Everyone else is operating under the clear premise that it means "Increasing the damage done by Untamed hammer skills by 80%". You are talking as if you think it means "Change the global hammer weapon damage from 985-1111 to  1773-2000".

[Obtena.7952]

9 hours ago, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

I think a better question is what exactly do you think it means? Everyone else is operating under the clear premise that it means "Increasing the damage done by Untamed hammer skills by 80%". You are talking as if you think it means "Change the global hammer weapon damage from 985-1111 to  1773-2000".

That's the problem ... I'm not MAKING an interpretation of that statement in the first place because it's not relevant to my point. IN ANY WAY YOU WANT TO IMAGINE IT COULD HAPPEN,  dumping 80% more DPS on hammer is NOT a fix for what is wrong with Untamed in PVE.

Again, arguing how that could happen is completely irrelevant. It could happen lots of ways and none of those ways change my point, so I'm not let you take me down some drawn out argument about something that isn't relevant just so you can try to get a win against me. 

Edited November 16, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

5 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

That's the problem ... I'm not MAKING an interpretation of that statement in the first place because it's not relevant to my point. IN ANY WAY YOU WANT TO IMAGINE IT COULD HAPPEN,  dumping 80% more DPS on hammer is NOT a fix for what is wrong with Untamed in PVE.

Again, arguing how that could happen is completely irrelevant. It could happen lots of ways and none of those ways change my point, so I'm not let you take me down some drawn out argument about something that isn't relevant just so you can try to get a win against me. 

I'm not arguing for an 80% increase either. Remember that whole thread where I argued that the hammer damage is OK already and that increasing it is not the answer for Untamed being garbage?

Even if it were my goal, it's not possible to get a "win" because you never make a point to begin with, and even if you do hint at one it's worded in such a way that you can change it later or you just move the goal posts or bait and switch. Your entire modus operandi on this forum is to take people on drawn out arguments about things that are not relevant.

[Obtena.7952]

1 hour ago, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

I'm not arguing for an 80% increase either.

Perfect ... I'm definitely not implying you are, so I have no reason to think you are continuing to argue with me except to argue. My point is clear and if you don't disagree with it, being that the idea that dumping 80% more DPS on hammer is NOT a fix for what is wrong with Untamed in PVE, then I think we are done here. There was never a reason to start anything with me in the first place. 

 

[Substance E.4852]

21 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

You keep telling me I'm misinterpreting but you don't step up and clarify what you think he meant in his response to me either. But no problem, here is your chance. What do you think this means? 

I could see anet buffing hammer damage in pve by ~80% and calling it a day
hopefully after they fix the pet

 

 

No, I'm not playing your inane bad faith argument game anymore

You're wrong, full stop

[Obtena.7952]

35 minutes ago, Substance E.4852 said:

You're wrong

That remains to be seen, because  whether I'm wrong or not isn't determined you, it's determined by how Anet changes Untamed ... and if the game history is any indication, odds are in my favour here. It's really unlikely that just throwing 80% more DPS at Hammer is going to be their solution to fixing what's wrong with Untamed in PVE. 

Edited November 16, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

3 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Perfect ... I'm definitely not implying you are, so I have no reason to think you are continuing to argue with me except to argue. My point is clear and if you don't disagree with it, being that the idea that dumping 80% more DPS on hammer is NOT a fix for what is wrong with Untamed in PVE, then I think we are done here. There was never a reason to start anything with me in the first place. 

 

Of course there was a reason, I was pointing out you were wrong with your other assertions which you were using as an argument against other members. 

[Obtena.7952]

15 hours ago, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

Of course there was a reason, I was pointing out you were wrong with your other assertions which you were using as an argument against other members. 

Oh you mean that time when you tried to pass off projectile velocity increase as an overall DPS increase? or that time when you said it is an infinite increase due to velocity increase, because nothing is stationary there (in PVP)? Yeah I remember that ...you got me so bad ... I'm SOOO WRONG.  🤣

Let's just stick to the ACTUAL assertion I DID make here. Dumping 80% more DPS on hammer is NOT a fix for what is wrong with Untamed in PVE. If you don't disagree, then I don't see what the problem is. 

Edited November 17, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

9 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Oh you mean that time when you tried to pass off projectile velocity increase as an overall DPS increase? or that time when you said it is an infinite increase due to velocity increase, because nothing is stationary there (in PVP)? Yeah I remember that ...you got me so bad ... I'm SOOO WRONG.  🤣

Let's just stick to the ACTUAL assertion I DID make here. Dumping 80% more DPS on hammer is NOT a fix for what is wrong with Untamed in PVE. If you don't disagree, then I don't see what the problem is. 

Yeah, it is a DPS increase, because the DPS went up.  That's what increase means.

The actual assertion(s) I've been referring to do not include that one. But that's the only one. You can go back and read your posts if you can't remember.

[Obtena.7952]

2 hours ago, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

Yeah, it is a DPS increase, because the DPS went up.  That's what increase means.

Again, I'm not going to discuss the various ways DPS can increase; it's not relevant to the discussion you were hijacking to start an off-topic argument with me. It has nothing to do with my point. Dumping 80% more DPS on hammer is NOT a fix for what is wrong with Untamed in PVE. If you aren't going to discuss that, we don't have anything to say to each other. 

Edited November 18, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

24 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Again, I'm not going to discuss the various ways DPS can increase; it's not relevant to the discussion you were hijacking to start an off-topic argument with me. It has nothing to do with my point. Dumping 80% more DPS on hammer is NOT a fix for what is wrong with Untamed in PVE. If you aren't going to discuss that, we don't have anything to say to each other. 

That's not the point you made originally and it's never been the point I was discussing.

[OGDeadHead.8326]

Arguing that the velocity increase on longbow = dps increase is flawed, since it is not really measurable, unless longbow before that change missed ALL the time, and afterwards hits ALL the time. You could say it helps to keep dps up (or higher if you will), but unless my prior statement is true, you can't give it a fixed % increase value.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

5 hours ago, OGDeadHead.8326 said:

Arguing that the velocity increase on longbow = dps increase is flawed, since it is not really measurable, unless longbow before that change missed ALL the time, and afterwards hits ALL the time. You could say it helps to keep dps up (or higher if you will), but unless my prior statement is true, you can't give it a fixed % increase value.

Which is why I stated it is an infinite increase. The opposite of definite or having definable limits. Specifically, immeasurable or incalculable. I probably should have specified I did not mean totally limitless. I just assumed people wouldn't think I meant the velocity increase means I can now do eleventy zillion googolplex DPS.

[Obtena.7952]

10 hours ago, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

That's not the point you made originally

Yes it absolutely is the point I made originally. But feel free to pretend you don't know how to go to the first page of the thread and check it yourself.  But for the benefit of the doubt you don't know how to do that, let me save you the trouble and remind you want it was.:

Garbage PVE specs aren't fixed with 'numbers bumps'. If the skills aren't useful in PVE, they simply aren't useful, no matter what the numbers are. 

Ironically, take a wild guess who that was in reply to?  Again, for the benefit of the doubt in your favour you don't know how to check that ... it was YOU. The fact is that we have LOTS of examples in the game where DPS didn't fix what was wrong with a spec and Untamed will not be different. Untamed will ALSO not be fixed with more DPS. The idea it would be is absurd. The idea Anet would try to do so ... should also be absurd at this point. 

 

Edited November 18, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Obtena.7952]

8 hours ago, OGDeadHead.8326 said:

Arguing that the velocity increase on longbow = dps increase is flawed, since it is not really measurable, unless longbow before that change missed ALL the time, and afterwards hits ALL the time. You could say it helps to keep dps up (or higher if you will), but unless my prior statement is true, you can't give it a fixed % increase value.

Exactly ... and here is the best part, the intent to buff projectile velocity on LBow was not with the intent to increase its DPS. The intent was to fix the problem where people could dodge projectile attacks by simply moving.  The poster thinks that's relevant in a discussion where someone suggests to increase DPS of a melee weapon ... 🤔

Edited November 18, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Forum Moderator.3419]

Hello Everyone,

I'm locking this thread as it has turned into bickering.

Regards.