[Video] The problems with Virtuoso and EoD IMO

[JazzXman.7018]

hi made that vid as some form of internal feedback for devs (who most likely will not watch anyway) and ppl already playing and maybe interested in my opinion. i tried to edit the longer planned virtuoso guide and felt like that i cannot make a more neutral guide only providing the informations/explanations ppl need to know about the virtuoso without telling what i rly think about it before. i lit got stuck in mind every time i tried to continue the mechanical explanation part of the guide. so to free my mind and heart i had to upload the whole uncut voice i have done so far. its unlisted on youtube since i dont want it to keep new player away from trying out the game. a game i still love and want to hype up and keep alive so badly.

 

sadly we cant do more than hoping that anet wakes up at some point. otherwise i dont see any future for gw2 in pvp/ wvw with that kind of balance and spec development (trade off nonsense etc) and what feels like a complete pvp neglection with eod at this point. pls notice the vid description/ pinned youtube comment under the vid!

 

the more neutral and informative guide about virtuoso will now hopefully follow soon. 

 

 

[phokus.8934]

"This whole expansion feels rushed."

That basically sums up my thoughts as well.

[Zoser.7245]

12 hours ago, JazzXman.7018 said:

hi made that vid as some form of internal feedback for devs (who most likely will not watch anyway) and ppl already playing and maybe interested in my opinion. i tried to edit the longer planned virtuoso guide and felt like that i cannot make a more neutral guide only providing the informations/explanations ppl need to know about the virtuoso without telling what i rly think about it before. i lit got stuck in mind every time i tried to continue the mechanical explanation part of the guide. so to free my mind and heart i had to upload the whole uncut voice i have done so far. its unlisted on youtube since i dont want it to keep new player away from trying out the game. a game i still love and want to hype up and keep alive so badly.

 

sadly we cant do more than hoping that anet wakes up at some point. otherwise i dont see any future for gw2 in pvp/ wvw with that kind of balance and spec development (trade off nonsense etc) and what feels like a complete pvp neglection with eod at this point. pls notice the vid description/ pinned youtube comment under the vid!

 

the more neutral and informative guide about virtuoso will now hopefully follow soon. 

 

 

The matchs in the video were... casuals or ranked?

[Salt Mode.3780]

1 hour ago, Zoser.7245 said:

The matchs in the video were... casuals or ranked?

honestly doesn't matter if it is casuals or ranked it doesn't dismiss virtuoso's problems and i cannot amen fast enough to things being reused and just rehashed to make it "new"

Edited November 3, 2021 by Salt Mode.3780

[JazzXman.7018]

8 hours ago, Zoser.7245 said:

The matchs in the video were... casuals or ranked?

mix of both. i started unranked since im not a fan of throwing other ppls games (while ofc not being on one of my main pvp accounts but on my test account where i dont care for rating myself). throwing by playing something im not trained with esp since i know that i always need around 2 days to stop muscle memory gameplay for mirage (means wasting dodges pure offensive for ambush rewards, what you need to do on power mirage at least and perma interupting myself with dodges since virtuo cant cast while dodging).  but ye as @Salt Mode.3780 already said, that doesnt rly matter. when you can play one dodge power mirage in high ranked and in ats vs all lvl of teams while being in a way less stable team yourself, then you can make everything work also vs good player.

 

Doesnt mean its good, also when my criticism toward virtu isnt relying on its playablility/ viability and i even like to have a challenge by build disadvantage and less build carry. so my problem is more that virtu doesnt  include a skillbased challenge since its not even hard to play. mechanically its a simplyfied, dumbed down version of shatter mes, which has also less counterplay overall and when they get rid of the clunkyness will be broken while still being low skill requirement. ofc its clunky and just downgraded in a super stupid and clueless way showing an insane amount of lack in game/ class knowledge/ understanding just like the whole trade off mess does showcast that.

 

and here now we have a "spec" that is by basic lvl designed like a one dodge mirage so the mechanics are so bad that you cannot make them not broken when not totally downgraded and clunky. you add more dmg? enjoy inspi/chaos bunker gameplay with kill potential that will beat hot bunker chrono lvl of brokenness and will kill the last bit of pvp playerbase like hot chrono did kill esl. esp inspi will most likely already be on that broken and ofc braindead lvl when inspi traits are unbugged and working with blades and that monster will not even have the one weakness of decapping itself since you can play it without signet invuln. gg

 

make shatters be able to cast in the back of the mesmer? enjoy one of the most broken specs can run in circles and shoot burst skills on max range everywhere.

 

etc etc just like you cant make one dodge mirage skillful and not clunky while not broken with only one dodge since the mechanic is so heavily contradicted and all the tactical (active and skilled) gameplay options you are supposed to have on mirage and in generel with a 2 dodge bar and with ambush/ ih mechanic is deleted, so ambush rewards are mostly only passive dmg multiplier or a passive improvement of your sustain from dodging, just a passive side effect from dodging attacks the players dont need to think about that much.

 

and now we get a bunch of those kind of mechanically destroyed and downgraded (trade offed in the worst and super clueless way) specs in eod. carried by either braindead skill spam or bunker kitten. with powercreeped mobility (except mesmer ofc, no bias to see here) and stupid amount of quickness spam with overall low skill requirement (exceptions spectre and ranger spec). i rly just wanna cry about the direction balance/ spec development went the last 3-4 years. 

 

sry for the rant but holy cow i wanna perma cry in the corner these days. such a great game/ combat/ class system, such waste...

Edited November 3, 2021 by JazzXman.7018

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

1 hour ago, JazzXman.7018 said:

mix of both. i started unranked since im not a fan of throwing other ppls games (while ofc not being on one of my main pvp accounts but on my test account where i dont care for rating myself). throwing by playing something im not trained with esp since i know that i always need around 2 days to stop muscle memory gameplay for mirage (means wasting dodges pure offensive for ambush rewards, what you need to do on power mirage at least and perma interupting myself with dodges since virtuo cant cast while dodging).  but ye as @Salt Mode.3780 already said, that doesnt rly matter. when you can play one dodge power mirage in high ranked and in ats vs all lvl of teams while being in a way less stable team yourself, then you can make everything work also vs good player.

 

Doesnt mean its good, also when my criticism toward virtu isnt relying on its playablility/ viability and i even like to have a challenge by build disadvantage and less build carry. so my problem is more that virtu doesnt  include a skillbased challenge since its not even hard to play. mechanically its a simplyfied, dumbed down version of shatter mes, which has also less counterplay overall and when they get rid of the clunkyness will be broken while still being low skill requirement. ofc its clunky and just downgraded in a super stupid and clueless way showing an insane amount of lack in game/ class knowledge/ understanding just like the whole trade off mess does showcast that.

 

and here now we have a "spec" that is by basic lvl designed like a one dodge mirage so the mechanics are so bad that you cannot make them not broken when not totally downgraded and clunky. you add more dmg? enjoy inspi/chaos bunker gameplay with kill potential that will beat hot bunker chrono lvl of brokenness and will kill the last bit of pvp playerbase like hot chrono did kill esl. esp inspi will most likely already be on that broken and ofc braindead lvl when inspi traits are unbugged and working with blades and that monster will not even have the one weakness of decapping itself since you can play it without signet invuln. gg

 

make shatters be able to cast in the back of the mesmer? enjoy one of the most broken specs can run in circles and shoot burst skills on max range everywhere.

 

etc etc just like you cant make one dodge mirage skillful and not clunky while not broken with only one dodge since the mechanic is so heavily contradicted and all the tactical (active and skilled) gameplay options you are supposed to have on mirage and in generel with a 2 dodge bar and with ambush/ ih mechanic is deleted, so ambush rewards are mostly only passive dmg multiplier or a passive improvement of your sustain from dodging, just a passive side effect from dodging attacks the players dont need to think about that much.

 

and now we get a bunch of those kind of mechanically destroyed and downgraded (trades offed in the worst and super clueless way) specs in eod. carried by either braindead skill spam or bunker kitten. with powercreeped mobility (except mesmer ofc) and stupid amount of quickness spam with overall low skill requirement. i rly just wanna cry about the direction balance/ spec development went the last 3-4 years. 

 

sry for the rant but holy cow i wanna perma cry in the corner these days. such a great game/ combat/ class system, such waste...

I would have like your input on what's need to change instead of rant.

Such as dagger 1 this, dagger 2 that and so on. 

I mean I know the spec is garbage and have my opinions on what needs to change but would like your opinion since you, again, might be the best power mes on game. 

As for shatters behind the back, well its not like FA ele can't do the same. 

[JazzXman.7018]

On 11/3/2021 at 10:09 AM, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

I would have like your input on what's need to change instead of rant.

Such as dagger 1 this, dagger 2 that and so on. 

I mean I know the spec is garbage and have my opinions on what needs to change but would like your opinion since you, again, might be the best power mes on game. 

As for shatters behind the back, well its not like FA ele can't do the same. 

ye sry im a bit triggered these days...

but that is the problem. the spec with that blade mechanic and cast max range shatters cant rly be made unclunky without making it broken/ unhealthy design for pvp. i made suggestions for qol stuff in the virtu feedback thread (you should find it easy in my forum profile, post history) and in the clownfiesta balance discord back then when i was still part of it. but they all will not rly solve the basic problem with the basic spec design, some will make it even (as said) broken/ unhealthy. the best would be delay eod for a year and come up with something completely different after getting some devs on board with clue about pvp and mes in particular.

fresh air is an overall bad mechanic btw you dotn wanna spread that, but ye not fair ele can even instant cast burst in his back still while we cant even defensive rupt skills like gap closer with mantra while running away.

as for what will be realistic:

 

1). f4 should be a channeled block (like arcan shield for ele or at least dh f3) so you eat unblockables but your whole defensive is not completely negated by unblockable cc (hello 16 secs cd swipe and ele stuff). its important that at least f4 gives the ability to cast stuff during you have cover defensive, since virtu use 2 core mes traitlines and still shares core mes squishyness. 

 

2). the invuln utility  should  be usable while being cced (make it a stunbreak or so) but can stay a channel then, add 5 secs cd for the additional stunbreak reward if its too strong otherwise

 

3). f3 is either a short (1 secs duration or less) instant daze for interupt purposes (no face your target requirement) or it has a casttime and animation and becomes a hard lock down cc. best synergy it would have, if it would be something like rev rift pull (axe offhand skill from rev if i remember right), so you can pull enemies in line to hit the piercing stuff for some more aoe pressure of f1 and f2 songs (you could either scale the pull-range or the number of targets pulled with the amount of blades up). otherwise make it a stun (at least when used with max blades),  no projectile but little beam instead. activation without target should be possible just as it is now. add gs2 aiming ability for no scopes

 

4). change f1 and f2 into piercing little beams instead projectiles (not a big beam like gs ambush but little beams which cant be countered by projectile hate). you can keep the face your target requirement on those for now but they should be able to activate without target, add gs2 equivalent aiming for no scope ability.

 

5). heal should be without face your target requirement ofc. maybe instead adding a projectile that will hit a target just for soem boons and dmg you dont need on a heal and which produce face your target requirment, just add some little more condiremove to it instead.

 

6). maybe reduce casttime of f1 a little bit, also sadly can be critical bc of the possible quickness spam

 

7). give dagger one mobility skill (dagger 3 would be good for that, make it an melee none projectile hit instead  with balanced/not too high dmg something like warrior gs rush or so)

 

 

wouldnt do much more at this point and then see how it goes. also the aegis and quickness spam, indeed most traits in virtu are uncreative or unhealthy, obnoxious and often pretty passive traits but ye no realistic changes to expect here. too much effort meeeh.

 

dagger shouldnt be projectiles or at least better fly behavior (not able to simply side step when not in mid range etc, guard scepter aa syndrom). i wish they would have given double dagger and turn the whole weaponset  into an interrupt based weaponset so means not only ez pure dmg spam but more tactical utility stuff like soft cc (short instant daze for rupts mostly), blind, cripple, slow something like that. but we will not get that. 

 

probs forgot something. if i remember later i will add it.

 

again thanks for the compliment❤️

Edited November 5, 2021 by JazzXman.7018

[JazzXman.7018]

btw this is an interesting youtube comment i got on the vid. i wanna share it here (as said its not from me but i agree to most parts):

 

Virtuoso offer literally no reason to play it. > You can't reposition > You can't cleanse >

 

Every skill has at least whole kitten second before it starts going off, to which you add the travel time of projectilesand some more unlisted cast time. Take F1; it lists 0.75s cast time, but it takes 1.15s before the first projectile even actually spawn... to which you need to add the travel time of projectiles; besides, the projectiles are continuously spawned so you need to wait some actual 2s to get your damage. Rain of swords takes 1.9s before the first blade even actually hits the ground, swords of decimation needs 1.5s before the immobilize actually happens. We're talking about half of virtuoso's skillset having a higher effective cast time than prime light beam. I believe quickness only works on animations, so part of the cast time can be affected by quickness... but the biggest part of virtuoso's skills (which happen AFTER the skill was primed but it still doesn't do a thing) is just static >

 

On top of the insane ease of dodging skills with 1.5s cast times, the projectiles themselves are slow as kitten; from 900 range onwards, people can just walk out of them. I have no idea why this seems reasonable; you can't walk out of rapid fire, you can't walk out of true shot, you can't walk out of skirmisher shot, why should you be able to walk out of bladesongs which already have such a high cast time? And then again, quickness doesn't make projectiles faster >

 

F3 is bad; 38s cooldown for a single target daze which consumes your class resources. I'm just saying a necromancer gets 32s cooldown for a multi target unblockable fear which generates resources instead of consuming them.

 

F4 is even worse than that; a channeled block on a class with no stab; this also triggers magnetic shield\stun aura\full counter, while also works against mesmer's main defence (being stealth) by revealing you. And while doing that, it also deals absolutely no damage >

 

Dagger2 has a shotgun-like kind of spread; dagger3 is a slow moving tornado you can just sidestep, dagger1 is slow and deals 600 damage even on full zerk gear. Dagger doesn't have the repositioning tools nor the projectile speed to be a ranged weapon... so it must be melee, but it offers no defensive tools to be a melee weapon. 0 utility, 0 conditions. Numbers can be tweaked, but the mechanic of the weapon itself is just garbage >

 

Bladesongs are yet another shatter repaint. Let's talk about dragonhunter and guardian; DH virtues work on the same broad archetypes as core guard virtues (F1 burns, F2 heals, F3 defends)... but in a very very different way. Instead of big burning on the next attack, you get slowly pulsed burning for several seconds; instead of instacast healing you get healing with a cast time (but movement)... they do the same thing, but in a very different way. Bladesongs are just a repaint over core shatters, like chrono shatters; press f1 for damage, press f2 for confusion, press f3 for daze (but way worse), press f4 to defend (but WAAAAAAAAAAAAY worse) >

 

Traits are unexcusably bad. 1s bleeding? 800 damage from phantasm blade on zerk gear? No psionic trait nor dagger trait? Are we serious? > Healing skill with a face your target requirement; whoever designed this needs to be fired on the spot. There is no excuse for that, this one is the worst and it's borderline insulting

Edited November 3, 2021 by JazzXman.7018

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

Agree with that comment. I've been saying that and some other stuff on various threats. 

Still some people think it's opinion when it's not, they're facts. 

Virt is garbage whose only worth stuff is BR and F2. 

[tetrodoxin.2134]

I mained Mesmer for a very long time (since release, basically), but eventually swapped to Revenant.
My hope with EoD was that the Mesmer elite spec would be interesting enough to make me swap back, but Virtuoso is literally the opposite. It is the dullest, most uninspired spec I have seen across all classes if you look past the flashy sparkly FX animations.

Saddest part about Virtuoso is that it will possibly be the last elite spec being released for GW2. Just my guess, but I don't think more expansions will follow after EoD.

Is Virtuoso salvagable?
Maybe, there are lots of good suggestions in the forums (primarily some more impactful choices with the traits that I have seen). Some of the other specs can easily be tweaked by changing up numbers. Virtuoso is so frustratingly dull, no matter how good the numbers will end up.  Will Anet drastically overhaul the spec? I don't think so. 

 

So yeah, your video is spot on imo, kudos.

[JazzXman.7018]

2 hours ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

Agree with that comment. I've been saying that and some other stuff on various threats. 

Still some people think it's opinion when it's not, they're facts. 

Virt is garbage whose only worth stuff is BR and F2. 

what you think about the suggestions you asked for? 🙂

39 minutes ago, tetrodoxin.2134 said:

I mained Mesmer for a very long time (since release, basically), but eventually swapped to Revenant.
My hope with EoD was that the Mesmer elite spec would be interesting enough to make me swap back, but Virtuoso is literally the opposite. It is the dullest, most uninspired spec I have seen across all classes if you look past the flashy sparkly FX animations.

Saddest part about Virtuoso is that it will possibly be the last elite spec being released for GW2. Just my guess, but I don't think more expansions will follow after EoD.

Is Virtuoso salvagable?
Maybe, there are lots of good suggestions in the forums (primarily some more impactful choices with the traits that I have seen). Some of the other specs can easily be tweaked by changing up numbers. Virtuoso is so frustratingly dull, no matter how good the numbers will end up.  Will Anet drastically overhaul the spec? I don't think so. 

 

So yeah, your video is spot on imo, kudos.

thank you ❤️

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

I like the suggestions overall, except for 4, F2 animation is so cool it should remain the same except it shouldn't count as a projectile. 

I would also cut the blades to 3, mesmer was design around the number 3 not 5.

And make dagger 2 into cc. 

But it pisses me off that Virt is just a cloneless core mesmer and that the concept is a mash of stuff without any continuity between them. 

I would have made just a anti-caster and anti-melee mesmer. 

Perhaps take the suggestion someone made in other thread and make modal shatters, anti-melee and flip to anti-caster. 

But this is from someone who loves GW1 mesmer. 

[JazzXman.7018]

1 hour ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

I like the suggestions overall, except for 4, F2 animation is so cool it should remain the same except it shouldn't count as a projectile. 

I would also cut the blades to 3, mesmer was design around the number 3 not 5.

And make dagger 2 into cc. 

But it pisses me off that Virt is just a cloneless core mesmer and that the concept is a mash of stuff without any continuity between them. 

I would have made just a anti-caster and anti-melee mesmer. 

Perhaps take the suggestion someone made in other thread and make modal shatters, anti-melee and flip to anti-caster. 

But this is from someone who loves GW1 mesmer. 

i didnt touch f2 animation. only making it a little beam instead a projectile, so faster with better direction aiming and not affected by projectile hate. visually doesnt need to be that different. 

 

anti melee like perma range spam would feel boring to me tbh. not sure what you mean with anti caster. but if you mean make groundbased targeting shatter than pls no. also hate grenates bc of that. but taste is taste tho

Edited November 3, 2021 by JazzXman.7018

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

24 minutes ago, JazzXman.7018 said:

i didnt touch f2 animation. only making it a little beam instead a projectile, so faster with better direction aiming and not affected by anti projectile hate. visually doesnt need to be that different. 

 

anti melee like perma range spam would feel boring to me tbh. not sure what you mean with anti caster. but if you mean make groundbased targeting shatter than pls no. also hate grenates bc of that. but taste is taste tho

What I mean by anti-melee is kind of like retal and blind. 

Like foe attacks faster but have 50% chance to miss attacks or attack faster but foe takes damage each time he hits.  We don't really have anything like that in gw2 hence why I mentioned GW1. 

As for anti-caster I mean rupts and confusion like hexes. 

Kind of next spell you cast fails and you take x damage and stuff like that. 

There were so many cool skills like that in GW1 it's a shame gw2 doesn't have anything like that. 

 

 

[JazzXman.7018]

36 minutes ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

What I mean by anti-melee is kind of like retal and blind. 

Like foe attacks faster but have 50% chance to miss attacks or attack faster but foe takes damage each time he hits.  We don't really have anything like that in gw2 hence why I mentioned GW1. 

As for anti-caster I mean rupts and confusion like hexes. 

Kind of next spell you cast fails and you take x damage and stuff like that. 

There were so many cool skills like that in GW1 it's a shame gw2 doesn't have anything like that. 

 

 

not a fan of random stuff since random stuff goes against tactical gameplay since neither the mes nor the enemy can count on something, so neither cant work with it properly. i like blinds which are active applied on specific keyskills means on purpose. and ye agree to more rupts, means instant cast short daze. making a blind that also adds dmg sounds cool also needs to be balanced carefully and pls no condi stuff since we already have ineptitude what is something near to that. cool would be that you give a debuff that means next attack applies X% of the dmg you give to enemy you give also to yourself. so enemy can counterplay by using low dmg skills for that

 

hehe so you wanna retaliation back? 🙂

[Zoser.7245]

10 hours ago, JazzXman.7018 said:

mix of both. i started unranked since im not a fan of throwing other ppls games (while ofc not being on one of my main pvp accounts but on my test account where i dont care for rating myself). throwing by playing something im not trained with esp since i know that i always need around 2 days to stop muscle memory gameplay for mirage (means wasting dodges pure offensive for ambush rewards, what you need to do on power mirage at least and perma interupting myself with dodges since virtuo cant cast while dodging).  but ye as @Salt Mode.3780 already said, that doesnt rly matter. when you can play one dodge power mirage in high ranked and in ats vs all lvl of teams while being in a way less stable team yourself, then you can make everything work also vs good player.

 

Doesnt mean its good, also when my criticism toward virtu isnt relying on its playablility/ viability and i even like to have a challenge by build disadvantage and less build carry. so my problem is more that virtu doesnt  include a skillbased challenge since its not even hard to play. mechanically its a simplyfied, dumbed down version of shatter mes, which has also less counterplay overall and when they get rid of the clunkyness will be broken while still being low skill requirement. ofc its clunky and just downgraded in a super stupid and clueless way showing an insane amount of lack in game/ class knowledge/ understanding just like the whole trade off mess does showcast that.

 

and here now we have a "spec" that is by basic lvl designed like a one dodge mirage so the mechanics are so bad that you cannot make them not broken when not totally downgraded and clunky. you add more dmg? enjoy inspi/chaos bunker gameplay with kill potential that will beat hot bunker chrono lvl of brokenness and will kill the last bit of pvp playerbase like hot chrono did kill esl. esp inspi will most likely already be on that broken and ofc braindead lvl when inspi traits are unbugged and working with blades and that monster will not even have the one weakness of decapping itself since you can play it without signet invuln. gg

 

make shatters be able to cast in the back of the mesmer? enjoy one of the most broken specs can run in circles and shoot burst skills on max range everywhere.

 

etc etc just like you cant make one dodge mirage skillful and not clunky while not broken with only one dodge since the mechanic is so heavily contradicted and all the tactical (active and skilled) gameplay options you are supposed to have on mirage and in generel with a 2 dodge bar and with ambush/ ih mechanic is deleted, so ambush rewards are mostly only passive dmg multiplier or a passive improvement of your sustain from dodging, just a passive side effect from dodging attacks the players dont need to think about that much.

 

and now we get a bunch of those kind of mechanically destroyed and downgraded (trade offed in the worst and super clueless way) specs in eod. carried by either braindead skill spam or bunker kitten. with powercreeped mobility (except mesmer ofc, no bias to see here) and stupid amount of quickness spam with overall low skill requirement (exceptions spectre and ranger spec). i rly just wanna cry about the direction balance/ spec development went the last 3-4 years. 

 

sry for the rant but holy cow i wanna perma cry in the corner these days. such a great game/ combat/ class system, such waste...

I asked because a lot of people only watch the video without even listen or without sound and watching it in that way the impression is that the Virtuoso works enough well because you are outplaying other players in it. 😜 So, instead of showing a Virtuoso in trouble and having a hard time surviving, you end up showing a ks machine that allows you to win games easily.  😋And that is what people will be talking about. 😅🤣

We just have to wait and see if for the final beta they will dedicate a guild chat to comment on the feedback given by the players and the decisions they have made in order to polish and make the new specializations improve. Or if they decide that the Virtuoso's design is perfect and wonderful as some praise in their comments and that, with a few bug fixes, it is ready for the expansion release.

Place your bets. 🐌

Edited November 3, 2021 by Zoser.7245

[JazzXman.7018]

1 hour ago, Zoser.7245 said:

I asked because a lot of people only watch the video without even listen or without sound and watching it in that way the impression is that the Virtuoso works enough well because you are outplaying other players in it. 😜 So, instead of showing a Virtuoso in trouble and having a hard time surviving, you end up showing a ks machine that allows you to win games easily.  😋And that is what people will be talking about. 😅🤣

We just have to wait and see if for the final beta they will dedicate a guild chat to comment on the feedback given by the players and the decisions they have made in order to polish and make the new specializations improve. Or if they decide that the Virtuoso's design is perfect and wonderful as some praise in their comments and that, with a few bug fixes, it is ready for the expansion release.

Place your bets. 🐌

well you always can outplay ppl, question only is how much better you have to play than them to win and as said when you can play one dodge power ih mirage vs good ppl/ teams, then virtu will do that too, even easier since the skill ceiling/ cap is way lower (even lower than core, outside of chaos and inspi ofc) and you get more rewarded for simple chain cast spam covered by stealth, while having low access to reactive high iq combos and outplay moves. there are some good enemies in the vid and it looks exactly the same. my criticism isnt the viability since as mes (esp as gs power mes) you are used to be handicapped and used to the need to heavily outskill ppl to get any reward and i even like it that way. 

 

oh and when ppl wanna only watch for the footage then i suggest to watch the real gameplay vid without the voice talk and with full intro and in full length: 

 

Edited November 3, 2021 by JazzXman.7018

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

1 hour ago, JazzXman.7018 said:

not a fan of random stuff since random stuff goes against tactical gameplay since neither the mes nor the enemy can count on something, so neither cant work with it properly. i like blinds which are active applied on specific keyskills means on purpose. and ye agree to more rupts, means instant cast short daze. making a blind that also adds dmg sounds cool also needs to be balanced carefully and pls no condi stuff since we already have ineptitude what is something near to that. cool would be that you give a debuff that means next attack applies X% of the dmg you give to enemy you give also to yourself. so enemy can counterplay by using low dmg skills for that

 

hehe so you wanna retaliation back? 🙂

There are random stuff here particularly on mesmer, boons from chaos storm and traits. 

But you can do stuff without rng, everytime you manage to hit you get blind, there you go 50% non random.

But you get the idea, a shutdown machine, that's what mesmer was all about and most GW1 vets miss.

Retal was a replacement for anti-melee and caster hexes such as empathy, backfire, visions of regret, spiteful spirit and so on (there were tons of them in GW1 and you could stack them). I liked it but would prefer if it was a condition (that couldn't get buffed by stats I mean, a standard condition let's call it that way).

Also mesmer could use fragility hex, it exists in the game as an hex by some enemies. 

Everytime you get a condi or a condi expires deals damage, that way you could benefit from some damaging condis as a power mes. 

[JazzXman.7018]

1 minute ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

There are random stuff here particularly on mesmer, boons from chaos storm and traits. 

But you can do stuff without rng, everytime you manage to hit you get blind, there you go 50% non random.

But you get the idea, a shutdown machine, that's what mesmer was all about and most GW1 vets miss.

Retal was a replacement for anti-melee and caster hexes such as empathy, backfire, visions of regret, spiteful spirit and so on (there were tons of them in GW1 and you could stack them). I liked it but would prefer if it was a condition (that couldn't get buffed by stats I mean, a standard condition let's call it that way).

Also mesmer could use fragility hex, it exists in the game as an hex by some enemies. 

Everytime you get a condi or a condi expires deals damage, that way you could benefit from some damaging condis as a power mes. 

sadly never played gw1 so not sure i get all of it but ye i get the general direction 🙂

[Salt Mode.3780]

The thing I keep seeing is sword leap on virtuoso again a core based skill set on a weapon is still better then dagger which had years of gameplay to create something different and it still lacks compared to sword and only because of how the leap interacts with virtuoso which was probably not even intentional. 

Also its the only thing that can give virtuoso mobility without utility as well as survival on s2.

[Zoser.7245]

51 minutes ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

The thing I keep seeing is sword leap on virtuoso again a core based skill set on a weapon is still better then dagger which had years of gameplay to create something different and it still lacks compared to sword and only because of how the leap interacts with virtuoso which was probably not even intentional. 

Also its the only thing that can give virtuoso mobility without utility as well as survival on s2.

The sword 3rd skill version of the Virtuoso seems more a compromised solution and that they avoided to dedicate much time in it. Which ironically ended in an improved version. But don't be surprised if they rework it to a final version before the expansion's release. And make it a blade thing... like everything in the Virtuoso. It could be something like...  new updated Virtuoso's sword third skill:   Throw a blade to your target, if hits your target then chain/tether them and allow you to dash or tp on it doing X damage.  If blocked/missed/etc  then enter in cooldown. Of course you must be looking at your target to not miss it. 🙄😱

I can see them doing something like that and call it an improved custom version for the Virtuoso. 😁

 

 

Edited November 3, 2021 by Zoser.7245

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

16 hours ago, Zoser.7245 said:

The sword 3rd skill version of the Virtuoso seems more a compromised solution and that they avoided to dedicate much time in it. Which ironically ended in an improved version. But don't be surprised if they rework it to a final version before the expansion's release. And make it a blade thing... like everything in the Virtuoso. It could be something like...  new updated Virtuoso's sword third skill:   Throw a blade to your target, if hits your target then chain/tether them and allow you to dash or tp on it doing X damage.  If blocked/missed/etc  then enter in cooldown. Of course you must be looking at your target to not miss it. 🙄😱

I can see them doing something like that and call it an improved custom version for the Virtuoso. 😁

 

 

That would be cool but only if after you port in to the tether the skill would flip allowing you to port back. 

[Heika.5403]

6 hours ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

That would be cool but only if after you port in to the tether the skill would flip allowing you to port back. 

"Would", but too complex for the Virtuoso concept... I think that if they add something new, it will be in one way, plain and simple.  They didn't even bother to design a new mechanic for the spec, so I doubt they are going to do it with a weapon skill.

 

 

[Leonidrex.5649]

dead on arrival like new world 😄

[Jables.4659]

On 11/3/2021 at 9:16 AM, tetrodoxin.2134 said:

I mained Mesmer for a very long time (since release, basically), but eventually swapped to Revenant.

I had a realization last night that I also play Revenant more than Mesmer these days.  I'll log in and hop on my Mesmer with the intention of jumping into WvW for some solo roaming or playing a few matches in spvp.  I then click Arcane thievery and it doesn't cast, so I switch to my Alacregade and do a CM+T4 fractal run before logging off.