Untamed Beta 4 Feedback - It Does Work In PvP Now - But I Have Some Suggestions For Polishing

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

Elaborate video feedback: GW2 Beta 4 - Untamed Works In PvP - But I Have Suggestions - Twitch

I talk for 1:25 minutes about Untamed in detail.

At 1:25 minutes I demo a good functional Untamed build in an AT game.

But mainly what to take home from this 1:25 minutes of talking is:

1. Untamed is working in PvP now, albeit it blandly requires use of core weapons due to Hammer still being dysfunctional.
2. The onus of Untamed's flavor really lies within the Ambush skills and that it functions more off of sustained DPS, rather than burst DPS.
3. The onus of Untamed SHOULD lie more within the new Hammer skills if it were usable or important in some way.
4. To really nail down what would make Untamed's flavor feel so much better in PvP, I suggest this: 1) The Ambush skills should have a 4s opening rather than a 2s opening, 2s is too short. Furthermore, the cool-down to initiate Ambush skills should be on a 10s CD rather than a 15s CD. 2) The Hammer needs to be able to replace Greatsword's utility, otherwise it won't see use. For example: If the Hammer #3 skill were a mobility skill that had an evade on it such as Ranger GS#3, and say Hammer #4 was a block that only triggered the damage skill when struck while blocking, the Hammer could replace the utility of that mandatory Greatsword use, and Untamed would have a stronger unique flavor in mechanical dynamic than it does now. Players could then use the kinds of things they wanted to run with that Hammer, like Longbow/Hammer or Axes/Hammer or even Shortbow/Hammer or possibly make a full melee Untamed work Hammer/Greatsword. But as it stands now, the Hammer is just not good and the dynamic of Untamed still feels more like an alternative Core Ranger than it does a new specialization because we are still working with core weapons on Untamed and we have no real new weapon to highlight the specialization. Again, Hammer is not going to see use in pvp for several reasons unless it is able to stand in as an equal level or better utility to the Greatsword. This is explained in much more detail in the video.
5. New utilities still need some work. As it stands, the old stuff is still better.

Edited December 3, 2021 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[RedAvenged.5217]

Reality is- pet unleashed is horrible and ranger unleashed is horrible.

the numbers on pet unleashed skill are basically 0 and they had the gull to introduce a skill that increase the 50 damage it does by 10%.

unleashed ambush is useless

most traits are slow and awkward, besides the ones that act on Cc

 

if I were you I’d give up on a power based roaming build, it’s only hope is a trap condi build that sits on mid node Cc’ing people and teleporting the pet onto them

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

30 minutes ago, RedAvenged.5217 said:

Reality is- pet unleashed is horrible and ranger unleashed is horrible.

the numbers on pet unleashed skill are basically 0 and they had the gull to introduce a skill that increase the 50 damage it does by 10%.

unleashed ambush is useless

most traits are slow and awkward, besides the ones that act on Cc

 

if I were you I’d give up on a power based roaming build, it’s only hope is a trap condi build that sits on mid node Cc’ing people and teleporting the pet onto them

Condi works on it in team fight.

Hey I'm not saying Untamed is GOOD in pvp.

I was just saying it at least work now, compared to initial release which was just completely dysfunctional.

[Brynioch.1873]

Greatsword is just broken by design. There will never be a weapon that rivals it in PvP.

Also the fact that almost all of our on demand condi cleanse is in Wilderness Survival and Survival skills just shoehorns every build into the same things.

Your build is just core ranger with untamed tagged on it.

 

The problem is the the design of core ranger. As long as we don't get a massive rework for core ranger things will likely never change.

 

And hammer like greatsword? Why shouldn't I run Hammer/GS then and some immob?

Edited December 3, 2021 by Miellyn.6847

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

3 hours ago, Miellyn.6847 said:

Greatsword is just broken by design. There will never be a weapon that rivals it in PvP.

Also the fact that almost all of our on demand condi cleanse is in Wilderness Survival and Survival skills just shoehorns every build into the same things.

Your build is just core ranger with untamed tagged on it.

 

The problem is the the design of core ranger. As long as we don't get a massive rework for core ranger things will likely never change.

 

And hammer like greatsword? Why shouldn't I run Hammer/GS then and some immob?

1. Greatsword is not broken. If anything on Ranger was broken OP, you'd be seeing everyone running Ranger in MATs instead of Necros, Heralds, Holos, Thieves, and Guardians.
2. Ranger has however, been very largely balanced around the use of Greatsword for nearly a decade now. <- That's not broken, that's just the bottlenecking of a class dynamic. It's not that Greatsword is broken, it's that other options simply aren't as good due to how the game's dynamic actually plays out in pvp. IE: Shortbow on a Thief, which is used in virtually every Thief build. It's not that it's busted OP, it's just that it ties everything together so well for a Thief build, and Thief has been being balanced around this for so long, that you just have to use it. This is the same thing happening with Ranger and Greatsword.
3. Greatsword or Core Ranger does not need any reworking a decade into the game. Please no. It's just that new specializations need to take into consideration the design around that Greatsword and why it is important. Either add new weapons that compliment that, or that can replace it, otherwise the new weapons will just suck and no one will use them. This is  similar to a new Thief weapon that somehow wasn't good with Shortbow, no one would use it.
4. Of course the build I was running was a Core Ranger with Untamed on it. This is exactly the same as how Druid is Core Ranger with Druid on it, and exactly the same as how Soulbeast is Core Ranger with Soulbeast on it. This was to be expected.
5. Why not run Hammer/Greatsword? I never said you couldn't or shouldn't. That could be a lot of fun, but it'll never happen so long as the Hammer doesn't compliment Greatsword play or is able to replace Greatsword play in its utility that is mandatory for Ranger.

Edited December 3, 2021 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Leonidrex.5649]

Personally I dont get how they want untamed to be a bruiser and its class weapon has no sustain, blocks, or anything of the sort.
Leap on hammer 5 made it MUCH better btw but its still not where it needs to be to be usable

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

4 hours ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

Personally I dont get how they want untamed to be a bruiser and its class weapon has no sustain, blocks, or anything of the sort.
Leap on hammer 5 made it MUCH better btw but its still not where it needs to be to be usable

Exactly. That's exactly it.

At least one person is taking beta feedback seriously instead of trolling my thread with confused faces.

Everyone agreed with my feedback on Untamed beta 3 release, but apparently no one continued playing it enough in beta 4 to be able to understand what I'm saying here.

Edited December 3, 2021 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Leonidrex.5649]

6 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Exactly. That's exactly it.

At least one person is taking beta feedback seriously instead of trolling my thread with confused faces.

Everyone agreed with my feedback on Untamed beta 3 release, but apparently no one continued playing it enough in beta 4 to be able to understand what I'm saying here.

I think loads of people get it, they just dont bother responding is all.
Most of the things they implemented are things I said should be done too and I am happy that they were done, untamed is very close to being what it needs to be, it doesnt need full reworks anymore, changing 2-3 skills and some number tweaks and it will be nice spec for years to come.

[Crozame.4098]

I believe balance should be about mid-high level ranked games instead of MATs.

Edited December 4, 2021 by Crozame.4098

[Leonidrex.5649]

On 12/2/2021 at 11:53 PM, RedAvenged.5217 said:

Reality is- pet unleashed is horrible and ranger unleashed is horrible.

the numbers on pet unleashed skill are basically 0 and they had the gull to introduce a skill that increase the 50 damage it does by 10%.

unleashed ambush is useless

most traits are slow and awkward, besides the ones that act on Cc

 

if I were you I’d give up on a power based roaming build, it’s only hope is a trap condi build that sits on mid node Cc’ing people and teleporting the pet onto them

untamed mechanic in pvp suffers from their new policy of
" if its instant " the damage is 0
" if its CC " the damage is 0
new pet F skills are insta-cast from ranger side, and CC is CC.
And in all honesty its fine, unleash pet skills dont need damage IMO
F1 can teleport pets that struggle to move around
F2 strips boons
F3 blocks projectiles, utility is there so the skills are usefull.
But hammer CC is an issue, I honestly have no clue what to do with it, If I was to play untamed I would just dich it and use core ranger weapons instead, as they are functional. And it goes to show how bad hammer was, that adding 600 range leap on top of damage, and no lockdown still didnt make it close to being usefull

[RedAvenged.5217]

16 hours ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

untamed mechanic in pvp suffers from their new policy of
" if its instant " the damage is 0
" if its CC " the damage is 0
new pet F skills are insta-cast from ranger side, and CC is CC.
And in all honesty its fine, unleash pet skills dont need damage IMO
F1 can teleport pets that struggle to move around
F2 strips boons
F3 blocks projectiles, utility is there so the skills are usefull.
But hammer CC is an issue, I honestly have no clue what to do with it, If I was to play untamed I would just dich it and use core ranger weapons instead, as they are functional. And it goes to show how bad hammer was, that adding 600 range leap on top of damage, and no lockdown still didnt make it close to being usefull

I don’t necessarily think hammers bad, just not useful.

it clearly is build entirely for team fighting and as much the numbers are low and it’s slow and awkward.

again I think the closest we are getting to good on the spec is a team fight cc machine, which would probably be condi- so either give hammer some great power numbers or make it condi I guess...

[Leonidrex.5649]

1 minute ago, RedAvenged.5217 said:

I don’t necessarily think hammers bad, just not useful.

it clearly is build entirely for team fighting and as much the numbers are low and it’s slow and awkward.

again I think the closest we are getting to good on the spec is a team fight cc machine, which would probably be condi- so either give hammer some great power numbers or make it condi I guess...

its not even good for team fighting, you cant even hit 1 person with its " aoe " most of the time, let alone several

[RedAvenged.5217]

3 minutes ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

its not even good for team fighting, you cant even hit 1 person with its " aoe " most of the time, let alone several

I mean I gave up on hitting combos, but hitting people in team fights gave me no problem at all.

 

again I think people need to give up on this idea of a glass roamer, for one you’d need to do some crazy combos which is just unrealistic 

[Arheundel.6451]

The hammer supposed to be a PvE/WvW weapon or at best with some tryhard AT team with heavy support...and I am fine with that, any defensive buffs to hammer would simply invite the nerf herd to cry on the forum till they nerf GS for all ranger build/specs

Any QoL change are welcome for hammer always...except they should not equal the defensive abilities of GS at anytime, regardless of full mele ranger working or not

It is possible to add AoE knockback/launch for defensive reasons, anything but a full block GS type

Edited December 4, 2021 by Arheundel.6451

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

2 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

The hammer supposed to be a PvE/WvW weapon or at best with some tryhard AT team with heavy support...and I am fine with that, any defensive buffs to hammer would simply invite the nerf herd to cry on the forum till they nerf GS for all ranger build/specs

Any QoL change are welcome for hammer always...except they should not equal the defensive abilities of GS at anytime, regardless of full mele ranger working or not

It is possible to add AoE knockback/launch for defensive reasons, anything but a full block GS type

Nope.

It's time now.

Untamed presents the possibility for full melee Ranger, which many of us have been waiting to do for years now.

They'd be crazy to not deliver that.

That's exactly the kind of special flavor that would separate Untamed from the other specs, full melee.

Edited December 4, 2021 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Downstate.4697]

23 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Nope.

It's time now.

Untamed presents the possibility for full melee Ranger, which many of us have been waiting to do for years now.

They'd be crazy to not deliver that.

That's exactly the kind of special flavor that would separate Untamed from the other specs, full melee.

Well I run a full melee sb in pvp so not really true. 

 

On your initial post I agree on all your points. 

[RedAvenged.5217]

6 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Nope.

It's time now.

Untamed presents the possibility for full melee Ranger, which many of us have been waiting to do for years now.

They'd be crazy to not deliver that.

That's exactly the kind of special flavor that would separate Untamed from the other specs, full melee.

I mean valk ranger is basically that. Only reason to even play a ranged weapon on it is because people in ats and Qing at 3am don’t need to worry once about not being carried.

sword/dagger great sword is super common and really good

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

34 minutes ago, RedAvenged.5217 said:

I mean valk ranger is basically that. Only reason to even play a ranged weapon on it is because people in ats and Qing at 3am don’t need to worry once about not being carried.

sword/dagger great sword is super common and really good

Yes but sword/dagger isn't offensive melee. It's just dodgy dodge.

When I say full melee, I mean something comparable to Spellbreaker dagger/shield + greatsword.

Untamed hammer that was fixed to be good + greatsword could potentially be that.

[Kodama.6453]

On 12/3/2021 at 1:24 PM, Leonidrex.5649 said:

Personally I dont get how they want untamed to be a bruiser and its class weapon has no sustain, blocks, or anything of the sort.
Leap on hammer 5 made it MUCH better btw but its still not where it needs to be to be usable

This confused the hell out of me.

Scrapper is an engineer bruiser spec with hammer as the elite spec weapon. Defense on it: reflect on 2, evade on 3, block on 4.

Untamed is a ranger spec with hammer as the elite spec weapon. Defense on it: ???

[Leonidrex.5649]

9 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

This confused the hell out of me.

Scrapper is an engineer bruiser spec with hammer as the elite spec weapon. Defense on it: reflect on 2, evade on 3, block on 4.

Untamed is a ranger spec with hammer as the elite spec weapon. Defense on it: ???

I thought they would add some unique mechanic of absorbing damage for ex enemies that are over 600 range deal 0 damage to you, enemies between 300 and 600 deal 50% of the damage, enemies withing 300 deal full damage.
Maybe some short duration barrier ( not like weaver where it has perpetually 50% max hp barrier ) more like 2k that lasts 2s.
But it just has nothing. It feels like they copy-paste warriors hammer which sucks too.

Edited December 5, 2021 by Leonidrex.5649