Yep..Roamers are getting left out with the changes to WvW

[AlCapwnd.7834]

19 hours ago, Caedmon.6798 said:

Roaming seems to be completely dead atm. Its just blobs and guild groups. This system will have less roamers,less scouts,less solo play and more orientated on Guild groups and blobs. Its not a good thing,it will make certain solo players and roamers drop out completely cus theres nothing to do for em.

I still see roamers. But How are you supposed to take SMC from MAG cloud as a solo player? You need blobs. Its just the way it is. There are TONS of roamers. Im not sure what everyone is complaining about.

[Infusion.7149]

I take this as an opportunity to remind people that rifle deadeyes and non-soulbeast rangers are unwanted in squads. Especially holds true after a soulbeast the other day that joined our comped squad and did less DPS than I did on minstrel firebrand.

Fact is , if you are a "roamer" then don't expect to be matched with people that are in squads. By definition that is what roaming is, you decide what you want to do instead of following a commander. If you valued teaming with a particular group of people you should have joined them, joined comms if they have it, and run a  proper build. In the future this will be possible with the full alliance implementation to ally with whatever group you want even if you have a solo guild. The issue remains while you might enjoy playing with them, they might not enjoy your presence (and for reasons that may not seem obvious unless you have a solid grasp of WvW and teamfights).

It doesn't matter if you're new to the game or someone with 40K+ AP and PvP titles, this is just the way the gamemode has worked and will work even after alliances. In particular in one of the community guilds I was in had a soulbeast that insisted he was awesome just because of hitting 10K rank and we have video of him running away from fights and camping longbow on 1500 range. So the second reminder I have to put here is if everyone dies and you get away to "tell the tale" or whatever roleplayers tell themselves it isn't a win for you. It just means you're selfish enough (and no I'm not going to sugarcoat , that is exactly what it is) to join a squad and do nothing for anyone in your subgroup since most abilities are at most 600 radius.

This current implementation of alliances is not GvGvG as people would frame it. It isn't simply because guilds that may have been allied are on different teams this week unless an alliance guild was made specifically to tilt the matchup (not naming any names). In addition, it is guilds plural rather than one guild.

[kash.9213]

1 hour ago, Infusion.7149 said:

I take this as an opportunity to remind people that rifle deadeyes and non-soulbeast rangers are unwanted in squads. Especially holds true after a soulbeast the other day that joined our comped squad and did less DPS than I did on minstrel firebrand.

Fact is , if you are a "roamer" then don't expect to be matched with people that are in squads. By definition that is what roaming is, you decide what you want to do instead of following a commander. If you valued teaming with a particular group of people you should have joined them, joined comms if they have it, and run a  proper build. In the future this will be possible with the full alliance implementation to ally with whatever group you want even if you have a solo guild. The issue remains while you might enjoy playing with them, they might not enjoy your presence (and for reasons that may not seem obvious unless you have a solid grasp of WvW and teamfights).

It doesn't matter if you're new to the game or someone with 40K+ AP and PvP titles, this is just the way the gamemode has worked and will work even after alliances. In particular in one of the community guilds I was in had a soulbeast that insisted he was awesome just because of hitting 10K rank and we have video of him running away from fights and camping longbow on 1500 range. So the second reminder I have to put here is if everyone dies and you get away to "tell the tale" or whatever roleplayers tell themselves it isn't a win for you. It just means you're selfish enough (and no I'm not going to sugarcoat , that is exactly what it is) to join a squad and do nothing for anyone in your subgroup since most abilities are at most 600 radius.

This current implementation of alliances is not GvGvG as people would frame it. It isn't simply because guilds that may have been allied are on different teams this week unless an alliance guild was made specifically to tilt the matchup (not naming any names). In addition, it is guilds plural rather than one guild.

I value playing with a lot of the same people I have for years. I didn't value most of their drivers shrill voice or their need to crash into wipes over and over and rage and blame after. I know that's not all of them but I didn't always avoid discord or teamspeak. A proper build is one that keeps you alive, I don't see a lot of those around the core of most commanders. 

It won't be possible to allay with whoever you want in the future. Alliances are going to have some rules and limitations. There is also a need to build rapport which will be difficult with the need to adjust performance and guild/alliances objectives to try to shift towards a standing that alliance wants to fight in and poach from. 

[Infusion.7149]

3 minutes ago, kash.9213 said:

I value playing with a lot of the same people I have for years. I didn't value most of their drivers shrill voice or their need to crash into wipes over and over and rage and blame after. I know that's not all of them but I didn't always avoid discord or teamspeak. A proper build is one that keeps you alive, I don't see a lot of those around the core of most commanders. 

It won't be possible to allay with whoever you want in the future. Alliances are going to have some rules and limitations. There is also a need to build rapport which will be difficult with the need to adjust performance and guild/alliances objectives to try to shift towards a standing that alliance wants to fight in and poach from. 

Do they value your presence as much as you value theirs, that is a legitimate question that needs to be asked.

[Caedmon.6798]

2 hours ago, AlCapwnd.7834 said:

I still see roamers. But How are you supposed to take SMC from MAG cloud as a solo player? You need blobs. Its just the way it is. There are TONS of roamers. Im not sure what everyone is complaining about.

Who's even talking about SM ? What does SM have to do with roaming.

[kash.9213]

1 hour ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Do they value your presence as much as you value theirs, that is a legitimate question that needs to be asked.

I don't care what they value, and that's not a question that needs to be asked. What does that have to do with anything? 

[Infusion.7149]

4 minutes ago, kash.9213 said:

I don't care what they value, and that's not a question that needs to be asked. What does that have to do with anything? 

You wrote that you value "playing with a lot of the same people". If they don't value your presence likewise, the feeling is not mutual. This isn't meant as an insult or anything, just facts.

As an example, my guild leader allows PUGs often in squad when we are playing non-comped with no requirement but would we miss the people that insist on playing core ranger even when people are using stealth gyro in every subgroup? No. Quite the contrary.

Edited December 6, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[kash.9213]

1 hour ago, Infusion.7149 said:

You wrote that you value "playing with a lot of the same people". If they don't value your presence likewise, the feeling is not mutual. This isn't meant as an insult or anything, just facts.

As an example, my guild leader allows PUGs often in squad when we are playing non-comped with no requirement but would we miss the people that insist on playing core ranger even when people are using stealth gyro in every subgroup? No. Quite the contrary.

You need to word that better. "Playing with the same people" means the regulars on the server. I don't care what guild commanders or their cores value and it doesn't matter what they want in their squads since I don't join them. I'm still there in the fight helping people until they wipe or whatever for an hour but the rest of the time all of the randos and pugs keep the maps moving. Ideally that dynamic won't die out with Alliances, but it looks like it will. 

Edited December 6, 2021 by kash.9213

[Infusion.7149]

1 minute ago, kash.9213 said:

You need to word that better. "Playing with the same people" means the regulars on the server. I don't care what guild commanders or their cores value and it doesn't matter what they want in their squads since I don't join them. I'm still there in the fight helping people until they wipe or whatever for an hour but the rest of the time all of the randos and pugs keep the maps moving. Ideally that dynamic won't die out with Alliances, but it looks like it will. 

And there is nothing stopping you from allying with the "regulars on the server" when alliances are fully implemented.

[kash.9213]

3 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

And there is nothing stopping you from allying with the "regulars on the server" when alliances are fully implemented.

That's not realistic and that puts all of the control of peoples game time with guild leaders. 

[Infusion.7149]

7 minutes ago, kash.9213 said:

That's not realistic and that puts all of the control of peoples game time with guild leaders. 

You can have a guild of 1 person.

[Blocki.4931]

It's really not that hard to have your friends or you make a guild together, or join them, or make an alliance. You not understanding how this kitten easy system works doesn't mean they hate roamers.

[kash.9213]

24 minutes ago, Blocki.4931 said:

It's really not that hard to have your friends or you make a guild together, or join them, or make an alliance. You not understanding how this kitten easy system works doesn't mean they hate roamers.

People are loyal to guilds and friends in guilds that might not be a great fit for them. Trying to poach all of those people won't work. 

[Alpha.1308]

10 hours ago, Syryn.7591 said:

 The wvw community has been discussing and meming about Alliances for literal years.

 

10 hours ago, Syryn.7591 said:

I can't even begin to tell you how many times I was told to be sure I had my alliance guild selected before the beta - this was done in multiple forms, by anet in posts, by randoms in team/map chats, and by people I play with. 

congratulations

could not have cared less for alliances to begin with 

figured i'd just get thrown somewhere with my guild and call it a day

 

meanwhile, the actual comments must have gotten lost in a flood of discord messages that i wasn't interested in, the only one i actually saw and recognized was in an announcement, on reset night itself, that i figured i'd have time to get to, and simply didn't

 

i'm so glad that you're not someone affected by "poop happens"

 

still doesn't excuse over 90% of this problem that, again, should never have existed to begin with if they didn't half-butt this "meme" and given us some sloppy design in the first place

which, again, could have been fixed with their, again, also-half-thought-out-half-abandoned-gvg location in the already sandboxed area thatalreadyexists

 

 

could i have put more effort into caring and making sure i checked their "forum posts"?
(which, shouldn't be a requirement)

yea, i could of, sure 

could they have done something MUCH more efficient?

100%

and it's literally their job as a gaming company to make things less janky than "hur durr random people in map chat will help out by talking about our forum posts"

 

could they have actually rectified their mistake?

also 100% because they also MAdE A foRUm POsT AbouT It

 

 

and guess what

it still isn't fixed

after typing my information into that forum post which, according to you, yourself, is apparently "good enough" for users to have to go sifting through to find????

 

it's still not fixed 

sooooooooooo?

have it your way

 

we can use your argument

forum posts are legitimately officially required 100% and mega super duper amazing fun time

 

but, you know

the forum post didn't even follow through with their own post, sooooooooo

 

good luck using that as an argument

REaLlY tRyINg to figURe OUt HoW tHiS is an excuSe

 

whatever you want to pretend as "just an excuse", the bottom line is, it's their mess they made, and refused to clean up, doesn't matter what my "excuses" may be, there were PLENTY of ways this could have been avoided, repaired, addressed, anything, on their end, me avoiding it shouldn't have been on me to begin with 

 

is it a super big deal?

not really, no 

is it still annoying?

sure is

they want feedback, there's the feedback 

i initially commented with serious feedback, then proceeded with "just my excuse" afterward

 

it wasn't even the point of the argument at all  

people DID pick the correct server

and they STILL didn't land on the correct server to play with friends 

so, like, hello???? where's your ultra mega defense for that?

and they still aren't on the right server, even after that forum post

again, whatever my "excuse" is, didn't matter

it's how haphazardly they handled this situation, and everything else surrounding it that's wrong 

 

but, go ahead, nitpick something to justify whatever-it-is-to yourself;

i'm sure whatever you come back with, it'll be "juST an ExCUsE", too 

Edited December 7, 2021 by Alpha.1308

[Counterakt.9106]

8 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

You wrote that you value "playing with a lot of the same people". If they don't value your presence likewise, the feeling is not mutual. This isn't meant as an insult or anything, just facts.

As an example, my guild leader allows PUGs often in squad when we are playing non-comped with no requirement but would we miss the people that insist on playing core ranger even when people are using stealth gyro in every subgroup? No. Quite the contrary.

 

The problem with this post is that you think a guild plays together 24x7. I sometimes play EU, NA, LATE NA all the way into OCX. I play with different people/guilds in different timezones. I consider them friends, just because we have a few laughs in the mapchat and fight together. I don't have a blood pact with any of them doesn't mean I am not friends with them. I don't check with them if they are friends with me. As long as we are civil to each other I consider them 'friends'. I can't join a guild and commit to showing up for raids at the appointed hour. Besides, I just happen to get frustrated with 90% of the commanders and the remaining 10% are too hardcore/too try hard for my liking.

 

Alliances just splinters communities and forces people to pick which group of friends they want to play with.

[Infusion.7149]

6 minutes ago, Counterakt.9106 said:

 

The problem with this post is that you think a guild plays together 24x7. I sometimes play EU, NA, LATE NA all the way into OCX. I play with different people/guilds in different timezones. I consider them friends, just because we have a few laughs in the mapchat and fight together. I don't have a blood pact with any of them doesn't mean I am not friends with them. I don't check with them if they are friends with me. As long as we are civil to each other I consider them 'friends'. I can't join a guild and commit to showing up for raids at the appointed hour. Besides, I just happen to get frustrated with 90% of the commanders and the remaining 10% are too hardcore/too try hard for my liking.

 

Alliances just splinters communities and forces people to pick which group of friends they want to play with.

There's nothing stopping guilds from different timezones from allying. In fact that's probably optimal for a matchup.

[Counterakt.9106]

6 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

There's nothing stopping guilds from different timezones from allying. In fact that's probably optimal for a matchup.

Exactly, that is optimal. But EVERY single alliance I have seen so far have tried to stack a timezone. I don't blame them. You have a 500 people limit. Would you stack your timezone and have an advantage during the times you play or try to spread thin all around the clock and be outmanned in the timezone you play? This is exactly why a lot of people are complaining about being outnumbered most of the time vs some people like alliances so much. It is a lottery whether you get matched with a big alliance that plays in your timezone or not. 

[Infusion.7149]

Just now, Counterakt.9106 said:

Exactly, that is optimal. But EVERY single alliance I have seen so far have tried to stack a timezone. I don't blame them. You have a 500 people limit. Would you stack your timezone and have an advantage during the times you play or try to spread thin all around the clock and be outmanned in the timezone you play? This is exactly why a lot of people are complaining about being outnumbered most of the time vs some people like alliances so much. It is a lottery whether you get matched with a big alliance that plays in your timezone or not. 

It's going to be multiple alliances on one team. I wouldn't stress out about it as this is only the first iteration and doesn't have actual alliances, only "alliance guilds" or "community guilds".

[Counterakt.9106]

2 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

It's going to be multiple alliances on one team. I wouldn't stress out about it as this is only the first iteration and doesn't have actual alliances, only "alliance guilds" or "community guilds".

It took them two attempts to push out a limited beta. I read that this beta is testing only the matchmaking system. Still people ended up in different servers. They call it beta but it is not even alpha quality. They would rather test directly in production rather than have dedicated test servers. By the time they perfect alliances the communities will be dead and players will lose interest.

[Infusion.7149]

1 minute ago, Counterakt.9106 said:

It took them two attempts to push out a limited beta. I read that this beta is testing only the matchmaking system. Still people ended up in different servers. They call it beta but it is not even alpha quality. They would rather test directly in production rather than have dedicated test servers. By the time they perfect alliances the communities will be dead and players will lose interest.

It's only for one week-long testing at a time... if your "community" can't survive one week apart it's not much of a community is it?

Edited December 7, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Counterakt.9106]

Just now, Infusion.7149 said:

It's only for one week-long testing at a time... if your "community" can't survive one week apart it's not much of a community is it?

Did you even read my post?

[GutterRat.1269]

I'm curious as to whether there is a difference in the beta roaming experience between EU and NA due to language barrier issues, particularly where an alliance consists of a lot of German and French players. Any insight into this?

Because I could see how on NA where everyone more or less understands English it'd be easier to get help when you ask for it, as opposed to EU alliances where German and French players gibber on in their own respective languages and ignore calls made in English.

[Gehenna.3625]

20 hours ago, AlCapwnd.7834 said:

I still see roamers. But How are you supposed to take SMC from MAG cloud as a solo player? You need blobs. Its just the way it is. There are TONS of roamers. Im not sure what everyone is complaining about.

Roamers don't have a problem when there is a blob from your side as well, keeping the other blobs busy. Then roamers can do their thing. Not always successfully but that's ok. 

What I reported in my own thread is that there are times (even during the evening) where our side was busy on EBG (with a queue) and the other 3 maps only had roamers on our side, but there were blobs from the other 2 sides. I've never seen that happen as much as it does now. All 3 homeland maps had the status of "outnumbered". I don't think that ever happened before for me.

So if you're in a group and you see roamers...sure, that's when they can be successful, because you're there keeping the other sides busy. But when there is no blob on your side and there are from the other sides, this is when the problem occurs.

Personally I think it has to do with the guild set up. When you have guilds as focus, there will be many guilds that play at certain times, especially those that do things like raids as well. So then there will be big imbalances at certain times a day. Now with the server set up, this isn't the case because there will likely be guilds online on the server during the evening mostly. But now the active guilds are spread out over different alliance realms. And so there are gaps. And when the other side has more wvw-focused guilds then this is even a bigger problem.

The solution for me lies into not letting roamers join a map set where 2 maps or more are "outnumbered". But that's just me thinking out loud.

[tsm.9623]

So who here has friends that aren't guildmates, but you get to play with them in wvw because they're on the same server?  As a roamer, I don't belong to any big guilds that would house all my friends.  I like being able to play with friends because we've, at the very least, chose the same server and formed a bond around that scenario.  Can you honstly tell me that this system doesn't cause a feeling of alienation?  Even being in a big guild, you don't miss someone you could be playing with, without this god awful matching system?

 

[Biermeister.4678]

Execution was poor you pick you WvW guild and end up on opposite alliance because it was full with that said if you're in a large guild you might get to ply with them or not