Beta increased the fun factor so far

[Chaba.5410]

I've played this beta so far on three different accounts, 2 in NA and 1 in EU, during EU to late NA timezones.  Two things I have noticed so far:

1) The mixture of different play styles on individual teams seems to have increased.  I've maintained for years on this forum that diversity of playstyles leads to a healthier WvW as teams offer more variety of content.  To me this beta illustrates that principle.  Or maybe it's just a wider variety of players checking out the beta because it's beta.

2) Opponents are no longer as predictable.  The reshuffling increased uncertainty about the team you are fighting against.  You may recognize individual guilds and remember how and when they play, but it is no longer "Oh we are against SoS so they're just going to PPT off hours against us and NA will be boring".  The removal of "server profile" or "flavor" makes WvW actually new and exciting again because of the uncertainty.  Being challenged because of the unknowns is more fun to me.

It's human nature to not like so much uncertainty so my opinion may be unpopular and that's ok.  My hope is that others realize how uncertainty is one of the elements that make games more engaging and is something we should be embracing.

Edited December 6, 2021 by Chaba.5410

[Prophet of Flames.2783]

41 minutes ago, Chaba.5410 said:

2) Opponents are no longer as predictable.  The reshuffling increased uncertainty about the team you are fighting against.  You may recognize individual guilds and remember how and when they play, but it is no longer "Oh we are against SoS so they're just going to PPT off hours against us and NA will be boring".  The removal of "server profile" or "flavor" makes WvW actually new and exciting again because of the uncertainty.  Being challenged because of the unknowns is more fun to me.

The removal of any recognizability or profile of who you're playing is a good thing how? Uncertainty? There just isn't a playstyle left anymore or different expectation of what which team does more or how strong they are at certain things. It's all one big wash of more of the same random stuff (and mostly roaming).

[Chaba.5410]

31 minutes ago, Prophet of Flames.2783 said:

The removal of any recognizability or profile of who you're playing is a good thing how? Uncertainty? There just isn't a playstyle left anymore or different expectation of what which team does more or how strong they are at certain things. It's all one big wash of more of the same random stuff (and mostly roaming).

Yes, uncertainty.  Randomness is actually a key component of many games.  In this case, the reshuffling creates an information constraint that results in player engagement to reveal the information; what strategies you have to take that are effective against your new unknown opposing team.  If you know everything about your opponent already, that's boring as you're just going through repetitive motions at that point.

Edited December 6, 2021 by Chaba.5410

[Prophet of Flames.2783]

Just now, Chaba.5410 said:

Yes, uncertainty.  Randomness is actually a key component of many games.  In this case, the reshuffling creates an information constraint that results in player engagement to reveal the information.

There is no 'player engagement to reveal the information' because the teams don't have or hold on to any identity. Players in them switch so fluidly it means nothing. It takes time of dedicated groups of people in the same server to create a certain identity. Teams will never support that so it'll be gone for good.

Enjoy the randomness, which isn't a 'key component of many games' in this sense, and regardless that's a completely void point. Set collection is a key component in many games, and so is drafting, should we throw those in WvW as well? They're key components actually dude! Must mean it's good for us.

[Chaba.5410]

5 minutes ago, Prophet of Flames.2783 said:

There is no 'player engagement to reveal the information' because the teams don't have or hold on to any identity. Players in them switch so fluidly it means nothing. It takes time of dedicated groups of people in the same server to create a certain identity. Teams will never support that so it'll be gone for good.

It's unclear why you say two seemingly contradictory things.  How can you say not having any identity means there is no information to reveal?  Haven't you just not discovered or revealed the team identity yet, not that there is no identity?

Plans are that teams will last several weeks.  A single beta match is definitely not enough time for any sort of identity to be discovered or well-formed.

Edited December 6, 2021 by Chaba.5410

[Chaba.5410]

14 minutes ago, Prophet of Flames.2783 said:

Enjoy the randomness, which isn't a 'key component of many games' in this sense, and regardless that's a completely void point. Set collection is a key component in many games, and so is drafting, should we throw those in WvW as well? They're key components actually dude! Must mean it's good for us.

No.  In relation to WvW many players have nostalgia for server teams of the past.  Objectively the randomness of those past teams were very much the same as reshuffled world restructuring teams are today.  Everyone was new and didn't really know each other.  Have you considered that the nostalgia players have for the past is actually influenced by that past randomness before team identities became so set in stone over the years?

So why would I talk about set collection or drafting?  The point isn't that there are elements which are key components of games so let's add them in.  The point is that the randomness of who the opposing team is composed of is a key game design element that affects the fun in WvW.

That's my TED talk for today.  Thanks for joining.

Edited December 6, 2021 by Chaba.5410

[Dawdler.8521]

10 minutes ago, Prophet of Flames.2783 said:

It takes time of dedicated groups of people in the same server to create a certain identity. Teams will never support that so it'll be gone for good.

Yes, you're right. So... uh... what do you think alliances are?

[Prophet of Flames.2783]

2 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Yes, you're right. So... uh... what do you think alliances are?

Continuously changing groups of people and some guilds that will have no way to build a longer lasting clear identity because they don't stay under the same banner/team/name for long periods (months/years) of time in large amounts.

Right now if you're into WvW you often know which big guilds are on a certain server for example. Teams? No clue. Maybe you learn after a while. Then they switch teams. Cool. Zero identity, confirmed.

[Dawdler.8521]

48 minutes ago, Prophet of Flames.2783 said:

Continuously changing groups of people and some guilds that will have no way to build a longer lasting clear identity because they don't stay under the same banner/team/name for long periods (months/years) of time in large amounts.

Right now if you're into WvW you often know which big guilds are on a certain server for example. Teams? No clue. Maybe you learn after a while. Then they switch teams. Cool. Zero identity, confirmed.

You are describing teams, not alliances. Its two completely different things.

An alliance would be controlled by players and could have the same members for years, exactly like guilds (or current worlds). The difference is that its a group of players/guilds so that they can still be a recognized separate units within the alliance without everyone being forced to join the same guild.

Edited December 6, 2021 by Dawdler.8521

[Xenesis.6389]

Meh they're all just red blue green teams anyways.

[LokiSaint.3457]

"Beta increased the fun factor so far" said no1 ever 

[Zikory.6871]

34 minutes ago, LokiSaint.3457 said:

"Beta increased the fun factor so far" said no1 ever 

Beta increased the fun factor! 

You're a liar. Bad meme. 

[Seth Moonshadow.2710]

💯  Absolutely agree! For the first time our small rag tag band was actually enough force to 1) break down the first layer of defenses 2) be a big enough threat that the commander and their squad showed up to do wipe us out. While getting wiped wasn't so much fun. the fact that we, a small group, had battle and map impact was exhilarating. We also enjoyed the skirmishes we came across and for the first time held our own against both an equal size and even a larger size force!  It's actually what I had hoped WvW would be like in the beginning. A place for large scale zerg combat AND small unit battles.

 

Yeah sure there was some lagony, but we have never captured as much as we did this past week. 4 towers just our group, every camp we saw, and almost had a keep second wall down. No it doesn't sound like much. But from where we are standing we can 1) make some actual achievement progress with this AND work on legendary armor at the same time. We haven't yet worked with a zerg on beta yet, hopefully tonight.

 

When we bought guild wars 2 I was hoping to enjoy WvW and I always knew I would only dabble in PvP and not have anything more than casual time with it. But I was looking forward to WvW as a side game to PvE content main focus. I am glad that it is shaping up to be what I was looking for! Great work so far. Can't wait to see what the Alliances part will look like.