Untamed in Wvw squads

[Arheundel.6451]

6 hours ago, anduriell.6280 said:

I like your positive attitude, I really hope you are right. 

He won't be right, the extreme lack of stability, real invulnerability make untamed unsuitable for pug zerging where you can't expect any kind of support coming your way. It's still not clear to me if the untamed can use pet unleash skills if both pets are down for the count, I assume not as I didn't try and which case untamed will be bad for anything pug based above 10vs10. 

[Substance E.4852]

14 hours ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

I'm positive that with dedication and good theory crafting someone will come up with a decent zerg untamed build. 

The problem is "decent" isn't enough

Stance share greatsword/longbow soulbeast was "decent" and all that meant was another 4+ years of "please go get another class" after the pile of "meh" that was Druid

At least on soulbeast, we had decent stab generation so the whole "not getting a team slot with a guard" didn't sting so much

Now, maybe this changes with any 3.0 updates the class gets at launch, but the 2.0 beta iteration of untammed is DoA in WvW and even more so once the WvW Alliance update drops and you can't just reliably tag along with a proper zerg anymore

[Gorem.8104]

On 1/4/2022 at 4:45 PM, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

Yeah, I do agree with this.  I guess I've not felt the 'insta kicking' yet as have been invited to a few squads out of the blue, but can attest to feeling pretty useless in any large fight because it is true ranger lacks tools for this. 

 

Also true that untamed fixes nothing despite being billed as fixing things...which is kind of a depressing outlook for the state of the game actually.  

Imagine the meta shake if they gave Untamed the ability to give out unlockable to up to 5 allies in your group. Combine that with making Sic Em also effect up to 5 allied targets around you including yourself and your pet, and suddenly it'd have 2 unique uses that can't be filled by other roles. (Aoe stealth sniff pet break too). I mean, there is so many cool things they could have done with untamed but nope, instead its our worst E-Spec by a large, super large margin 

[singanushiga.5803]

On 12/29/2021 at 11:04 AM, anduriell.6280 said:

In any case I would love to hear also your opinion too. Even if we don't share the same point of view it would not be the first time I am mistaken in my position and your points could sway my negative perception of the elite. 

Sure, but I don't think my opinions are going to change your negative perception. First of all, lets check what Spb has as dps/support:

- You can be either dps or support for your team, both are viable builds.

- Shake it Off , even though it has a long cd, you can cleanse your party when needed as dps/support.

- Self stab with Balanced Stance, Winds of Disenchantment which is a really strong skill that can make you win fights when it's placed correctly, Endure Pain either from Defence trait line as support or as utility skill for surviving as frontliner. 

- Constant cc with hammer and F2, also immob if No Escape is picked. %21 damage boost with Berserker's Power, that means even though you're tanky with Dura runes as dps, you can still hit a lot.

- You remove boons everytime you cc, thanks to Dispelling Force. Boon removal increased with Enchantment Collapse. 

- Small stab every 10 seconds with Brave Stride, if it's picked.

- Lastly you can use your Break Enchantments utility every 15 seconds as long as you survive.

What you can do as Untamed in small scale (15v15):

- You can suprise enemy with going in with Forest's Fortification> precasting Nature's Binding> Unnatural Traversal> Rending Vines and rest is dps/cc with team.

- Immob with Muddy Terrain or stun break for your party, if you take Protect Me instead of Muddy Terrain.

I think what Untamed lacks:

- A stun break like Dolyak Stance which allow you to go in as frontliner and survive. 

- Your boon removal is pet dependant. Maybe you can dodge enemy cc and damage but your pet can't do that. Probably it'll die to first rev spike or going to be cc'ed when you're trying to use Rending Vines.

- Selfish. Ranger still doesn't have any utility that can bring anything to team. With Soulbeast you can share your stances, at least can give big stab with Dolyak Stance and heal conditions with Bear Stance. Untamed doesn't have anything like that. Even with Rev, you can provide constant boons without doing anything.

- Because it lacks self stab, a good stun break, you can't go in as much as Spb. Forest's Fortification looks good on paper, let's say you went in with that, reduced it's cd to 50. That means you have to wait for like 50 SECONDS which is so long for small fights. You can still be stacked with your team, get your stab from fb and go in with your team but, as a Immobbeast/dps Spb player and a frontliner, I refuse to play like that. With Spb, you can go deep for focusing a low life person or securing a kill without dying.

- Cc skills have long cd, Against good players, hard to get benefit from Fervent Force.

- Probably won't be suitable for blobs. 

I might be missing few points but these are my thoughts. If nothing changes with incoming "big" balance patch, I don't think that Untamed will be useful in anything. Probably it'll end end up like Druid, which isn't used much except in raids. Untamed is just a good duelist spec atm, nothing more.

Edited January 6, 2022 by usulyagmur.4092

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Eh whatever, EoD scuffed anyway and I'm not even a ranger main, was playing devil's advocate you guys play what you want kek

[anduriell.6280]

On 1/6/2022 at 7:14 AM, usulyagmur.4092 said:

Untamed is just a good duelist spec atm, nothing more.

Yes you are right it did no help to sway my negative view of the new elite. In any case i agree with you your points are spot on. 

I am not sure Untamed will be a better duelist than Druid or Soulbeast thou. 

[anduriell.6280]

On 1/6/2022 at 5:23 AM, Gorem.8104 said:

Imagine the meta shake if they gave Untamed the ability to give out unlockable to up to 5 allies in your group. Combine that with making Sic Em also effect up to 5 allied targets around you including yourself and your pet, and suddenly it'd have 2 unique uses that can't be filled by other roles. (Aoe stealth sniff pet break too). I mean, there is so many cool things they could have done with untamed but nope, instead its our worst E-Spec by a large, super large margin 

😄😆🤣

If only can you imaging. 

Nah no need to go so overboard and using just what is in there: If exploding spores would be a healing skill, casting something like Lesser_Seed_of_Life on each spore that would become a nice group heal/cleanse. With some CD reduction drop in there so it heals for little but you can cast it very often. 

Also if Perilous Gift would share the buff and effect with up to 5 allies. So the party would have access the willbender buff to not die for 3 seconds and then a bunch on barrier on the top (just to balance out instead healing the pet it exchanges the pet health for barrier) . Also it would be nice to have access to some CD reduction somewhere. 

The trait Fervent Force could also share the effects of CD reduction with allies every time the Untamed cast a disabling skill. 

And there you go: group heal/cleanses, buff to not die and Cooldowns reductions + Current CCs and boonrip/corruptions. 
The pet would still be a problem but if the untamed could revive the pet every time they get the goo on them at a cost of their HP that could solve the issue. 

No need to increase the damage, with those utilities it would become a nice addition to any squad. 

Edited January 8, 2022 by anduriell.6280

[Gorem.8104]

On 1/8/2022 at 8:21 PM, anduriell.6280 said:

😄😆🤣

If only can you imaging. 

Nah no need to go so overboard and using just what is in there: If exploding spores would be a healing skill, casting something like Lesser_Seed_of_Life on each spore that would become a nice group heal/cleanse. With some CD reduction drop in there so it heals for little but you can cast it very often. 

Also if Perilous Gift would share the buff and effect with up to 5 allies. So the party would have access the willbender buff to not die for 3 seconds and then a bunch on barrier on the top (just to balance out instead healing the pet it exchanges the pet health for barrier) . Also it would be nice to have access to some CD reduction somewhere. 

The trait Fervent Force could also share the effects of CD reduction with allies every time the Untamed cast a disabling skill. 

And there you go: group heal/cleanses, buff to not die and Cooldowns reductions + Current CCs and boonrip/corruptions. 
The pet would still be a problem but if the untamed could revive the pet every time they get the goo on them at a cost of their HP that could solve the issue. 

No need to increase the damage, with those utilities it would become a nice addition to any squad. 

 

More cool idea's, can make Untamed actually sound like a cool class. Compared to what they gave us haha. Considering how bad its been I do wonder if by EoD it turns out to be really good, its just all a "Psyche!" moment for Rangers 

[mistsim.2748]

It's just so sad they still haven't thought about giving pets perma stab and aoe (red circle) damage resistance in WvW and PvE. I mean I thought of this back in 2012. Decrease their damage, increase their utility. It's a no-brainer. 

Edited January 17, 2022 by mistsim.2748