Diversion

[katte nici.9483]

Diversion (Mesmer F3) is a single target 1 second daze on a 38 second cooldown.

 

38 second cooldown. For a 1 second daze. Single target.

 

This skill is basically the Asuran racial ability Technobabble. Which no one uses. Ever.

 

I think the cooldown of this ability is much too long for what it does untraited. If you consider that it does 0 damage and does not stun a cooldown closer to Mind Wrack's 12 seconds would be much more appropriate.

[Jables.4659]

You can attach clones to different targets so that Diversion dazes multiple enemies.  You can also orient your clones so that a single enemy is hit by a daze chain which can result in multiple interrupts.  The fact that it does 0 damage is a positive thing.  Most cc abilities do a very small amount of damage in competitive modes (basically equivalent to a clone auto-attack), but diversion can be used from stealth without revealing yourself. As a shatter skill, you can reduce its cool-down with illusions and empower it with traits like Maim the Disillusioned and Shattered Concentration.  Unlike Technobabble, its not depriving you of useful utility skills.  Diversion is a fantastic skill.  

[katte nici.9483]

You are looking at it when it is heavily traited. Most abilities are okayish when traited. But that is a cost you pay. And in reality chain interrupts hardly ever happen, because in order to position clones in such a way you need time, and clones usually don't live long enough. Their positioning is also controlled mostly by your opponent and not by you. As a result 90% of the time you will have overlapping dazes with only a single interrupt if any. 

 

Look at the ability itself without dumping 3 trait lines into it. It's a single target daze on a 38 second cooldown. That's... lame.

[MrAmputatoes.6031]

No Mesmer shatter is truly single target besides Bladesong Dissonance now. Core F3 can chain daze, assuming your clones are at multiple distances from their target, or effect up to 4 different enemies (each clone targeting a different including your IP). Now, most of these don't work in a PvP/ WvW setting as cleaving clones is super easy, but its still there. Keep in mind this is without any traits.  Also, a lot of shatters power is in its instant cast effects.

One thing about the chain daze from the wiki: An enemy https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/7/79/Daze.png/20px-Daze.png Dazed by Diversion cannot be dazed again until the daze effect wears off. For this reason, Diversion is strongest when using a mix of ranged and melee clones, or ranged clones with the mesmer in melee range. That way, one Diversion occurs right away, while other Diversion needs to wait for the clone to run to the target to get in range, which may cause a second application of daze if the previous daze had already ended.

Edited January 26, 2022 by MrAmputatoes.6031

[MrAmputatoes.6031]

Double Post

Edited January 26, 2022 by MrAmputatoes.6031

[Jables.4659]

On 1/25/2022 at 1:13 PM, katte nici.9483 said:

You are looking at it when it is heavily traited.Most abilities are okayish when traited. But that is a cost you pay. And in reality chain interrupts hardly ever happen, because in order to position clones in such a way you need time, and clones usually don't live long enough. Their positioning is also controlled mostly by your opponent and not by you. As a result 90% of the time you will have overlapping dazes with only a single interrupt if any. 

 

Look at the ability itself without dumping 3 trait lines into it. It's a single target daze on a 38 second cooldown. That's... lame.

I'm looking at the entire package and its parts.  Chain interrupts are definitely unlikely in any single use of diversion, but I land them pretty much every day that I play.  Even if you don't land a single interrupt, the dazes in and of themselves are valuable, more-so if you put thought into positioning when creating your clones.

A no trait diversion with zero clones can be insanely valuable if timed wisely.

Edited January 27, 2022 by Jables.4659
Removing repetitive words.

[Mik.3401]

On 1/25/2022 at 5:48 PM, Jables.4659 said:

You can attach clones to different targets so that Diversion dazes multiple enemies.  You can also orient your clones so that a single enemy is hit by a daze chain which can result in multiple interrupts.  The fact that it does 0 damage is a positive thing.  Most cc abilities do a very small amount of damage in competitive modes (basically equivalent to a clone auto-attack), but diversion can be used from stealth without revealing yourself. As a shatter skill, you can reduce its cool-down with illusions and empower it with traits like Maim the Disillusioned and Shattered Concentration.  Unlike Technobabble, its not depriving you of useful utility skills.  Diversion is a fantastic skill.  

I agree it requires creativity to pull off. But rather than worrying about attaching clones to different targets (and the clones die quickly) I think it’s just better to look into better options

[Salt Mode.3780]

On 1/25/2022 at 9:48 AM, Jables.4659 said:

You can attach clones to different targets so that Diversion dazes multiple enemies.  You can also orient your clones so that a single enemy is hit by a daze chain which can result in multiple interrupts.  The fact that it does 0 damage is a positive thing.  Most cc abilities do a very small amount of damage in competitive modes (basically equivalent to a clone auto-attack), but diversion can be used from stealth without revealing yourself. As a shatter skill, you can reduce its cool-down with illusions and empower it with traits like Maim the Disillusioned and Shattered Concentration.  Unlike Technobabble, its not depriving you of useful utility skills.  Diversion is a fantastic skill.  

Clones normally die or shatter prematurely before reaching the intended target unless it is shattered at close range. It is very rare for this occurrence to happen with the current clone HP pool. This was more a thing back when clones didn't die in one hit.

[Zenith.7301]

In GW2 vanilla beta diversion used to be aoe baseline.

 

Courtesy of PvP whine as usual, it was removed. As was the daze on GS Mindstab.

 

Diversion should stack duration in daze at least per clone shattered.

[Yoci.2481]

Mindstab had a daze? That makes so much more sense.

[Jables.4659]

22 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Clones normally die or shatter prematurely before reaching the intended target unless it is shattered at close range. It is very rare for this occurrence to happen with the current clone HP pool. This was more a thing back when clones didn't die in one hit.

Yeah, most of the time its a short range shatter with small intervals between dazes.  I had an interaction earlier that's pretty typical of how I use diversion offensively.  It doesn't need to be some long drawn out setup, and in this case it wasn't an intentonal setup at all.  I saw the rev double dodge away from where I had just created clones, so I decided to follow-up with a phantasmal mage + diversion combination (though magic bullet made the mages daze mostly pointless).

 

[katte nici.9483]

Interesting point, I would say that Magic Bullet is better than Diversion in most ways, including a much shorter cool down. That's what I meant.

[xXxNikiGoesWildxXx.3678]

On 1/25/2022 at 4:35 PM, katte nici.9483 said:

Diversion (Mesmer F3) is a single target 1 second daze on a 38 second cooldown.

 

38 second cooldown. For a 1 second daze. Single target.

 

This skill is basically the Asuran racial ability Technobabble. Which no one uses. Ever.

 

I think the cooldown of this ability is much too long for what it does untraited. If you consider that it does 0 damage and does not stun a cooldown closer to Mind Wrack's 12 seconds would be much more appropriate.

The way i play it is with mirage staff in pvp so you get alacrity 25% cd reduction and i use "illusions" traitline for 15% cd reduction(so if you do the math it can be 24 sec cooldown) . Now nearly 1700 rating. So with some traits shatters can be very strong. You have that ability to instant cast multiple aoe powerful spells like jaunt+staff4+f2+other shatters for massive burst. 

F3 is not projectile and instant cast so it is one of the strongest interupts in the game and it can proc so many different effects, also if you got clones it can daze up to 4 times if clones hit in different times. 

[FarmBotXD.1430]

6 hours ago, katte nici.9483 said:

Interesting point, I would say that Magic Bullet is better than Diversion in most ways, including a much shorter cool down. That's what I meant.

F3 is a very good shatter, no need for any buffs to it, its not a magic bullet, its not supposed to be a magic bullet.
IF F3 was to get a buff, only thing that I would accept is making it aoe, or at the very least making it possible to choose a target for the daze.
As far as I can tell, its just RNG what gets dazed since its a single target, this is partially why illusions is almost mandatory on any dps mesmer builds.

EDIT
F3 is one of the few skills capable of interrupting healing skills in this game, its very good offensive skill, for interrupting things like rangers swoop to deny mobility, all manner of healing skills, or just CC spamming necromancers.

Edited January 29, 2022 by FarmBotXD.1430

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

Diversion is fine, you should be complaining about Virtuoso F3 (Bladesong Dissonance) instead, which is garbage.

Edited January 30, 2022 by agrippastrilemma.8741

[Justine.6351]

I imagine they are afraid of doing much with it because of the multitude of ways to improve interrupts.

[Obliviscaris.6937]

12 hours ago, Justine.6351 said:

I imagine they are afraid of doing much with it because of the multitude of ways to improve interrupts.

 

There -used- to be a multitude of ways to improve interrupts.

[Justine.6351]

2 hours ago, Obliviscaris.6937 said:

 

There -used- to be a multitude of ways to improve interrupts.

There still are if we are including benefits from interrupting.

[Zenith.7301]

2 hours ago, Justine.6351 said:

There still are if we are including benefits from interrupting.

Not even close to what thieves get for interrupting, not to mention spellbreakers are better traditional mesmers at interruption and denial than actual mesmers.

 

All mesmers are is inferior thieves, stealth bursters with worse stealth, worse mobility, and worse burst.

[Justine.6351]

16 minutes ago, Zenith.7301 said:

Not even close to what thieves get for interrupting, not to mention spellbreakers are better traditional mesmers at interruption and denial than actual mesmers.

 

All mesmers are is inferior thieves, stealth bursters with worse stealth, worse mobility, and worse burst.

lol? Not really sure what more thieves are getting for those interrupts.

Warriors do get quite a bit for just cc foes though yeah. A lot of it is just the same as mesmers on interrupting though. Mind you they have to be in melee range for most of it I think.

[Zenith.7301]

1 hour ago, Justine.6351 said:

lol? Not really sure what more thieves are getting for those interrupts.

Warriors do get quite a bit for just cc foes though yeah. A lot of it is just the same as mesmers on interrupting though. Mind you they have to be in melee range for most of it I think.

 

 

What thieves are getting off those interrupts is a metric ton of damage through Impacting Disruption trait, and since they can interrupt far more often courtesy of offhand pistol and the initiative system, their punish and denial playstyle with headshot impacting disruption and black powder is a far more effective denial playstyle than the actual mesmer class.

 

And being in melee is hardly an issue for a warrior, given the stupid mobility of greatsword.

Edited February 4, 2022 by Zenith.7301

[Justine.6351]

4 hours ago, Zenith.7301 said:

 

 

What thieves are getting off those interrupts is a metric ton of damage through Impacting Disruption trait, and since they can interrupt far more often courtesy of offhand pistol and the initiative system, their punish and denial playstyle with headshot impacting disruption and black powder is a far more effective denial playstyle than the actual mesmer class.

 

And being in melee is hardly an issue for a warrior, given the stupid mobility of greatsword.

lol...ok...

power block...

Edited February 4, 2022 by Justine.6351

[Salt Mode.3780]

7 minutes ago, Justine.6351 said:

lol...ok...

power block...

Power block is still gated by:

Pistol 5 that has a long CD

Mantra that is garbage to use (also utility slot)

Mirage sword 1 which you have to use a dodge to get ambush and its close combat.

And last but not least unreliable shatter which also has a long CD

 

VS a daze that is also a 100% combo finisher + no CD on a weapon skill.....its clear who is the winner in terms of being able to utilize daze more effectively. 

Added bonus dagger pistol is the best weapon set for thieves.

Edited February 4, 2022 by Salt Mode.3780

[Justine.6351]

4 minutes ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Power block is still gated by:

Pistol 5 that has a long CD

Mantra that is garbage to use (also utility slot)

Mirage sword 1 which you have to use a dodge to get ambush and its close combat.

And last but not least unreliable shatter which also has a long CD

 

VS a daze that is also a 100% combo finisher + no CD on a weapon skill.....its clear who is the winner in terms of being able to utilize daze more effectively. 

Added bonus dagger pistol is the best weapon set for thieves.

There are more cc skills than that. And the mantra is not garbage. And the shatter is a pbaoe so you don't even need a target. And there is a thing called initiative. If they are dumping it all into headshot spam they are effed. And headshot is a projectile, hello projectile denial.

[Salt Mode.3780]

6 minutes ago, Justine.6351 said:

There are more cc skills than that. And the mantra is not garbage. And the shatter is a pbaoe so you don't even need a target. And there is a thing called initiative. If they are dumping it all into headshot spam they are effed. And headshot is a projectile, hello projectile denial.

We are talking about daze not CC and if u really want to talk about daze thief has a shortbow that does a incredible job of AoEing that is more reliable then our shatter. 

Reason why I say mantra is garbage is for 2 reasons, first you are forced to use 1 of 3 utility slot secondly aside from the daze it offers nothing afterwards unless u slot powerblock back then when you casted it there at least was bonus effect which was gone when the mantra was changed. If you compare the cooldowns VS initiatives, thieves spamming the daze would still have more impact then Mesmers cooldowns.

The best direct comparison is Thief Headshot which is 4 initiatives vs Magic bullet which is on a 25 sec CD. Granted magic bullet STUNS the FIRST target.

Edited February 4, 2022 by Salt Mode.3780