Viper Gear is not Condi Gear say it loud say it proud

[Infusion.7149]

10 minutes ago, Stajan.4581 said:

Snowcrows is trash because they think META is a real thing and they think there is a best build there is not there is just best at not best build

So you didn't link your build, didn't post a screen of golem (solo) DPS or anything and just talk bad about other people that spend thousands of hours on upping their gameplay. Okay. I'm just going to assume this a rant thread by someone who was kicked for low DPS and stealing aggro on trailblazer now. Have fun.

This doesn't belong in players helping players. It won't help any new player and you aren't asking for help, you're ranting about what defines condition damage gear based on your notion of what condition gear is which is not even correct when you account for any build that has on-crit conditions.

Edited February 27, 2022 by Infusion.7149
trailblazer lol

[Stajan.4581]

Just now, Stajan.4581 said:

 

That build is good for his play style it is not the best for all play styles which is what you and other like you are not understanding not everyone plays the same

If everyone played the same than every single build that has the highest DPS would be fine but ppl play differently. Some ppl can not react as fast for dodging, some ppl can not see everything that is going on because there is so much on the screen. In the end Viper gear is not condi gear it is a hybred that is exactly the point I was making in the first place other have even agree with me. Yes I was being semantic, because most ppl use words for what they are not and they have to stop doing that. Words have meaning and using the right words for what the meaning is, is the only proper and right way to do it. 

 

[AliamRationem.5172]

1 minute ago, Stajan.4581 said:

 

That build is good for his play style it is not the best for all play styles which is what you and other like you are not understanding not everyone plays the same

I understand it just fine.  Believe me.  You aren't the first player to show up on these forums thinking he's reinvented the wheel. 

[Stajan.4581]

3 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

So you didn't link your build, didn't post a screen of golem (solo) DPS or anything and just talk bad about other people that spend thousands of hours on upping their gameplay. Okay. I'm just going to assume this a rant thread by someone who was kicked for low DPS and stealing aggro on trailblazer now. Have fun.

 

Just now, Stajan.4581 said:

If everyone played the same than every single build that has the highest DPS would be fine but ppl play differently. Some ppl can not react as fast for dodging, some ppl can not see everything that is going on because there is so much on the screen. In the end Viper gear is not condi gear it is a hybred that is exactly the point I was making in the first place other have even agree with me. Yes I was being semantic, because most ppl use words for what they are not and they have to stop doing that. Words have meaning and using the right words for what the meaning is, is the only proper and right way to do it. 

 

One rant is not for that the rant is simply to prove that vipers gear is not condi gear, and that it is a hybred that is all. I do not play meta I play off meta because META is not a true thing. META means that it is the best build to play for every single player, that is incorrect as not every player plays the same.

[Obtena.7952]

4 minutes ago, Stajan.4581 said:

 

One rant is not for that the rant is simply to prove that vipers gear is not condi gear, 

which you haven't done. 

Again, you will never be able to 'prove' it's wrong to call Viper gear 'condi'. 

Edited February 27, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Stajan.4581]

1 minute ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

I understand it just fine.  Believe me.  You aren't the first player to show up on these forums thinking he's reinvented the wheel. 

 

Just now, Stajan.4581 said:

 

One rant is not for that the rant is simply to prove that vipers gear is not condi gear, and that it is a hybred that is all. I do not play meta I play off meta because META is not a true thing. META means that it is the best build to play for every single player, that is incorrect as not every player plays the same.

Oh but I have square wheels are now a thing and triangle ones too. Just like I have done a mix of trail and vipers for my build I am working. It is a little better damage output but less survival because of the lower HP and the lower barrier provided because of it. Like I said in one of the other posts not everyone plays the same and if they did than one build would be fine for everyone that is not the case. Plus I have proven and had others agree that vipers is a hybred gear that leans toward power there is no grey area in that it is the truth

 

[Obtena.7952]

2 minutes ago, Stajan.4581 said:

 

Oh but I have square wheels are now a thing and triangle ones too. Just like I have done a mix of trail and vipers for my build I am working. It is a little better damage output but less survival because of the lower HP and the lower barrier provided because of it. Like I said in one of the other posts not everyone plays the same and if they did than one build would be fine for everyone that is not the case. Plus I have proven and had others agree that vipers is a hybred gear that leans toward power there is no grey area in that it is the truth

 

There is NO WAY a mix of TB/Vipers is better DPS than a full Vipers setup on ANY build. That's just mathematics at this point. 

Do NOT confuse player capability with what is the 'best DPS build'. 

Edited February 27, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Stajan.4581]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

which you haven't done. 

Are you blind ?  Vipers gear increases power and condi the word Hybred means a thing made by combining two different elements; a mixture. This is exactly what vipers gear does. It leans toward power and not condi therefor by definition it is NOT CONDI GEAR IT IS A HYBRED.

[Stajan.4581]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

There is NO WAY a mix of TB/Vipers is better DPS than a full Vipers setup on ANY build. That's just mathematics at this point. 

I did not say that I said it is only 368 points off of full vipers because of the utility that is used

 

[Obtena.7952]

6 minutes ago, Stajan.4581 said:

Are you blind ?  Vipers gear increases power and condi the word Hybred means a thing made by combining two different elements; a mixture. This is exactly what vipers gear does. It leans toward power and not condi therefor by definition it is NOT CONDI GEAR IT IS A HYBRED.

I don't care what you want to argue the words you call things are ... it's irrelevant. I don't care if you understand the obvious ... it's irrelevant. 

There is NO BUILD where a mix of TB/Viper is better DPS than full Viper. NONE! Exactly ZERO.

If a mixture of gear is better for you as a player because you struggle with a full DPS/condi setup, that's fine .. play how you like, play any build you like, use any gear you want

... but that has NOTHING to do with the potential DPS of a build. The comments you are making are not helping people understand the game. 

Edited February 27, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[AliamRationem.5172]

10 minutes ago, Stajan.4581 said:

 

That build is good for his play style it is not the best for all play styles which is what you and other like you are not understanding not everyone plays the same

Again.  Foot out of mouth, head out of sand.  Know a little bit about the people you are trashing.  You trashed SC and I showed you SC is about knowledge, not pushing a set-in-stone meta.  Now you're trashing me.  I'm not a raider.  I'm a solo casual type and, as it happens I make builds and videos for players like me as well as players who aren't like me.  My builds are linked in metabattle's open world section, where they discuss in detail various ways to adjust to your particular style of play.

Here are a couple of examples of my builds, including one that takes on tough bosses without even having to dodge and still performs great!  But if you are a master of dodging, I can design builds for that, too.  And I always say when players ask my advice that there is all the flexibility in the world with these builds to play it your way.  I am not pushing any sort of meta here.  Again, educate yourself.

Balthazar solo on weaver with no dodging.

Champion Arrowhead solo on weaver with perfect evasion, no damage taken.

Champion Chak Lobber in glass hybrid Grieving stats.

Here's the metabattle link for these builds: https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Weaver_-_Condi_Weaver

Actually take a look at it.  Notice that it is not just 1 build.  They suggest variations for traits, stats, utilities, and everything else as well as offering video examples.  It's about providing useful information for players to adapt to whatever their play style happens to be.  You want to really help other players?  Take the chip off your shoulder and start learning.  SC is all about helping players.  Who are you helping here?

[Stajan.4581]

2 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I don't care what you want to argue the words you call things are ... it's irrelevant. I don't care if you understand the obvious ... it's irrelevant. 

There is NO BUILD where a mix of TB/Viper is better DPS than full Viper. 

Can you read at all? Seriously ! I said for the 3rd time now that the mix of TB/Vipers is only 368 points lower than full vipers. That is because of the utility that is used I do not understand why you cannot fathom the fact that something can be almost as good as something without having to be exactly what you want it to be.

[Obtena.7952]

8 minutes ago, Stajan.4581 said:

Can you read at all? Seriously ! I said for the 3rd time now that the mix of TB/Vipers is only 368 points lower than full vipers. That is because of the utility that is used I do not understand why you cannot fathom the fact that something can be almost as good as something without having to be exactly what you want it to be.

I can read ... and so can the other people in this thread that are arguing with you about the things you are saying that are wrong. You simply don't seem to fully understand what you are talking about ... 

Again, this TB/Vipers is only 368 points lower than full vipers means it's less DPS than Vipers ... you question my reading ... I have to question your math.  That 368 points can have a VERY significant impact on the DPS of a build, depending on the other choices a player makes. 

Seem to me ... you have significantly oversimplified how DPS is calculated to make your claims in this thread. What you need to do is start by showing us this build you are talking about, preferably using a build editor ... and probably have a look at GW2 wiki about Damage is calculated as well.  

Edited February 27, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[AliamRationem.5172]

12 minutes ago, Stajan.4581 said:

 

Oh but I have square wheels are now a thing and triangle ones too. Just like I have done a mix of trail and vipers for my build I am working. It is a little better damage output but less survival because of the lower HP and the lower barrier provided because of it. Like I said in one of the other posts not everyone plays the same and if they did than one build would be fine for everyone that is not the case. Plus I have proven and had others agree that vipers is a hybred gear that leans toward power there is no grey area in that it is the truth

 

This is called a strawman argument, bud.  It's where you create a false narrative for a real or imagined "opponent" and then rail against it.  Nobody is telling you how to play.  Nobody is pushing "1 build to rule them all" or go home.  That's a fantasy you created out of pure salt.  Just get over yourself and understand what people are trying to tell you here.  You want to help other players, right?  You should be able to have discussions on pros and cons of your build objectively and without all this nonsense.

[Stajan.4581]

3 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Again.  Foot out of mouth, head out of sand.  Know a little bit about the people you are trashing.  You trashed SC and I showed you SC is about knowledge, not pushing a set-in-stone meta.  Now you're trashing me.  I'm not a raider.  I'm a solo casual type and, as it happens I make builds and videos for players like me as well as players who aren't like me.  My builds are linked in metabattle's open world section, where they discuss in detail various ways to adjust to your particular style of play.

Here are a couple of examples of my builds, including one that takes on tough bosses without even having to dodge and still performs great!  But if you are a master of dodging, I can design builds for that, too.  And I always say when players ask my advice that there is all the flexibility in the world with these builds to play it your way.  I am not pushing any sort of meta here.  Again, educate yourself.

Balthazar solo on weaver with no dodging.

Champion Arrowhead solo on weaver with perfect evasion, no damage taken.

Champion Chak Lobber in glass hybrid Grieving stats.

Here's the metabattle link for these builds: https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Weaver_-_Condi_Weaver

Actually take a look at it.  Notice that it is not just 1 build.  They suggest variations for traits, stats, utilities, and everything else as well as offering video examples.  It's about providing useful information for players to adapt to whatever their play style happens to be.  You want to really help other players?  Take the chip off your shoulder and start learning.  SC is all about helping players.  Who are you helping here?

I see that these look to be weaver builds and that is fine but to me weaver is a trash class I can not stand it at all. It has to much that has to be going on all at the same time. So you build for all types of players do you ? What about clickers do you build for them too? If you are not a clicker you can not build for them because you do not know what they have to do to activate skills and that. I think that it is good that you build stuff for as you say all play styles if you do build for clickers, but my statement is fully true when I say VIPERS GEAR is hybred I understand ppl not wanting to except the fact and that words mean things. I on the other hand am a big enough person to say when I am wrong. I even changed part of my gear to vipers because it is very close to the top end damage and I still have the survival I am looking for since I am a clicker and not a button pusher.

[Obtena.7952]

3 minutes ago, Stajan.4581 said:

I see that these look to be weaver builds and that is fine but to me weaver is a trash class I can not stand it at all.

This has nothing to do with the point being made to you.

Quote

It has to much that has to be going on all at the same time. So you build for all types of players do you ? What about clickers do you build for them too?

Clickers can just as easily execute that build as 'pressers'. In fact, I would argue GW2 is an ideal game for clickers in the first place because of it's setup and options ... but that's a different thread. 

Quote

but my statement is fully true when I say VIPERS GEAR is hybred I understand ppl not wanting to except the fact and that words mean things.

Again, whether you want to argue Viper gear is not condi but hybrid ... is irrelevant. That's a sematic argument. 

Edited February 27, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[AliamRationem.5172]

Just now, Stajan.4581 said:

I see that these look to be weaver builds and that is fine but to me weaver is a trash class I can not stand it at all. It has to much that has to be going on all at the same time. So you build for all types of players do you ? What about clickers do you build for them too? If you are not a clicker you can not build for them because you do not know what they have to do to activate skills and that. I think that it is good that you build stuff for as you say all play styles if you do build for clickers, but my statement is fully true when I say VIPERS GEAR is hybred I understand ppl not wanting to except the fact and that words mean things. I on the other hand am a big enough person to say when I am wrong. I even changed part of my gear to vipers because it is very close to the top end damage and I still have the survival I am looking for since I am a clicker and not a button pusher.

You do love those semantics don't you?  Anything to be "right" about something.  Okay, you got me.  I only play condi sword weaver.  I'm sorry I am not able to provide this sort of advice for all of the classes you play.  However, if you'd like to get some ideas you should still visit metabattle's open world section for whatever class you do play.  You might learn something and, if you think you have a better way to share for players like yourself, perhaps you might get involved in discussion, provide build links, maybe even some video so other players can benefit?

[Stajan.4581]

7 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I can read ... and so can the other people in this thread that are arguing with you about the things you are saying that are wrong. You simply don't seem to fully understand what you are talking about ... 

Again, this TB/Vipers is only 368 points lower than full vipers means it's less DPS than Vipers ... you question my reading ... I have to question your math.  That 368 points can have a VERY significant impact on the DPS of a build, depending on the other choices a player makes. 

Seem to me ... you have significantly oversimplified how DPS is calculated to make your claims in this thread. What you need to do is start by showing us this build you are talking about, preferably using a build editor ... and probably have a look at GW2 wiki about Damage is calculated as well.  

I will post the builds I have no issue with that no one asked me to so here is the TB/Vipers http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSABs+tjlNwAZhMNGJW6X5PXA-zRRYkhZG94yojUIkKQ4DSQsHeNKY2C-e  Here is the vipers build http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSABs+tjlNwAZhMNGJW6X5PXA-zRJYmRPfZ0RKESFI8BJI2DvGFMbB-e

[AliamRationem.5172]

1 minute ago, Stajan.4581 said:

I will post the builds I have no issue with that no one asked me to so here is the TB/Vipers http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSABs+tjlNwAZhMNGJW6X5PXA-zRRYkhZG94yojUIkKQ4DSQsHeNKY2C-e  Here is the vipers build http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSABs+tjlNwAZhMNGJW6X5PXA-zRJYmRPfZ0RKESFI8BJI2DvGFMbB-e

Seems like a solid open world build to me.  Did somebody tell you otherwise?

[Obtena.7952]

4 minutes ago, Stajan.4581 said:

I will post the builds I have no issue with that no one asked me to so here is the TB/Vipers http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSABs+tjlNwAZhMNGJW6X5PXA-zRRYkhZG94yojUIkKQ4DSQsHeNKY2C-e  Here is the vipers build http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSABs+tjlNwAZhMNGJW6X5PXA-zRJYmRPfZ0RKESFI8BJI2DvGFMbB-e

Sure ... and the TB/Vipers does less DPS ... there is nothing unique about those builds that make the TB/Viper mix more DPS compared to the full Viper version there. 

... and whether you call Viper Hybrid or condi ... has absolutely NO impact on the DPS of either of those builds. 

 

Edited February 27, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Stajan.4581]

1 minute ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

You do love those semantics don't you?  Anything to be "right" about something.  Okay, you got me.  I only play condi sword weaver.  I'm sorry I am not able to provide this sort of advice for all of the classes you play.  However, if you'd like to get some ideas you should still visit metabattle's open world section for whatever class you do play.  You might learn something and, if you think you have a better way to share for players like yourself, perhaps you might get involved in discussion, provide build links, maybe even some video so other players can benefit?

I provided the TB/Vipers and vipers build in this thread to be looked at.  Yes I like semantics I like the  fact that words mean things and should be used the proper way and for the proper things. There is nothing wrong with that at all. If you truly play just sword weaver I can understand why you have build directed for them I get it I would do the same. I however play 3 classes that I like Scourge Soulbeast and Tempest.

[Stajan.4581]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Sure ... and the TB/Vipers does less DPS ... there is nothing unique about those builds that make the TB/Viper mix more DPS compared to the full Viper version there.

... and whether you call Viper Hybrid or condi ... has absolutely NO impact on the DPS of either of those builds. 

 

DUDE YOU JUST DO NOT GET IT DO YOU. I HAVE SAID 3 TIMES ALREADY AND THIS IS THE 4TH. THE TB/VIPERS DOES 368 POINTS DIFFERENT THAN THE VIPERS CAN YOU PLEASE READ THE WORDS ON THE SCREEN.

[Aravind.9610]

You tested it on a scourge which has very little difference between trailblazer's and viper's gear because it does very little power damage anyway. That only proves that most of your damage comes from conditions on both viper's and trailblazer's.

[Stajan.4581]

4 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Seems like a solid open world build to me.  Did somebody tell you otherwise?

The issue is that I do fractals and want to get to raids, as I want the legendary armour and WVW and PVP are just so screwed up that it is not worth the effort. Every single group I have ever tried to be in has said you are not running vipers vipers is the only true condi gear well its not condi gear as I have said and stated and shown by the use of proper words. Plus being a clicker I do not get around to skills and what not like they want so I need to build beefier char to survive. In some cases in fractals I am the last one standing and can take down the boss with 10-20% left on them. But than everyone cries about how long it is taking. I was running for trailblazers http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSABs+tjlNwAZhMNGJW6X5PXA-zRJYkRPfZ0RKESFI8BJI2DvGF8pB-e again the damage is a little lower but higher HP and higher barrier support

[AliamRationem.5172]

2 minutes ago, Stajan.4581 said:

I provided the TB/Vipers and vipers build in this thread to be looked at.  Yes I like semantics I like the  fact that words mean things and should be used the proper way and for the proper things. There is nothing wrong with that at all. If you truly play just sword weaver I can understand why you have build directed for them I get it I would do the same. I however play 3 classes that I like Scourge Soulbeast and Tempest.

Thanks for sharing the build links.  That's much more productive than the discussion so far.

Had you noticed that much of what makes your build effective are just variations on a general theme that most scourge players employ when playing a condition build?  Certain things just make sense, right?  That's "the meta".  It's not some evil force telling players to go home if they don't use one specific build.  It's simply a reflection of what works for a certain type of build when used for a purpose. 

It's the same reason the build Roul used in his video is simply a slight variation on the builds I use.  He didn't copy me (that would be ridiculous!).  He just arrived at a similar conclusion because that's what works.