Upcoming Changes to "The Battle For The Jade Sea"

[Tungsten Monarch.6058]

6 hours ago, difens.1326 said:

Its not over yet. Strike Mission is still needed to finish the collection...

I have slightly more influence over who I'm doing the strike mission with, what builds they are running, etc. 

[zigzag.8159]

On 3/4/2022 at 9:59 PM, Lonk.4193 said:

Game has been out for a decade at this point. Have you ever considered maybe you're putting too much pressure on casual players to simply "get good enough" to complete metas that mount unlocks have been locked behind? Maybe after years and years of evidence that not everyone can handle such hardcore events that maybe you need to tone it down, accounting for both returning players who long since quit or new players?

Not all of us want to be forced into Raid content or equally difficult stuff while being punished for our time while waiting around for every-2-hour metas that basic starting unlocks are tied to.

seeing anet didnt wanted people to be forced to play stuff they didnt wanted it looks like thats what they do want. lot of people do NOT enjoy raids grind meta and all other stuff they get but here we are being forced in many hrs days doind something i rather dont do and it seems that for some collections i have to do it on every proffession again?

[NeutralBurn.3829]

So, rather predictably, the expansion has resulted in the same two things that several previous expansions/LS's have resulted in:

First: A small percent of the players boasting that since they had no problem at all with any of the content, that the majority of other players who DO have a problem, are wrong somehow. This is showing both on the forums, and in game, with lots of toxicity in the chat.

Seriously, how does bragging "Oh, I've run through 7 groups successfully so far" help any of the other players that are obviously struggling? All you've done is identify that you don't represent the rest of us.

The initial cheers of "Let's go get this turtle" from the first two days, took no time in evolving into "There's nothing wrong with the meta, you're just a bad player." Or LFGs kicking players out, if they didn't bring specific specs to the fight.  Yes, it's a significantly more difficult fight/mechanics, but the amount of player-shaming that is happening is unbelievable.

Second: After the initial rush to the new maps....now they're largely empty, except for the usual grouping of AFK players at jumping puzzles that ANet swears isn't permitted, but still does nothing about. Sure, there's going to be plenty of players in this forum who have alts, bots, etc and they'll scoff at this complaint. But to someone who doesn't, it's pretty disheartening to hop on the LFG menu, and rather than see any active groups - it's the same AFK players, over and over, asking for money. Really speaks to a "thriving population" when 100% of a map's LFGs are panhandling bots.

And yes, the maps do have players running around, let me be more clear: The metas/events from EoD just aren't compelling enough. After the first few days, it doesn't matter what time I log in, there's maybe only 1 or 2 LFGs in any of the maps. Case in point: at time of writing, zero LFGs in Seitung, Echovald, and DE. 7 LFGs in New Kaineng, all for the jumping puzzle.

Yesterday, there were a lot more LFGs, but just for fishing parties. While that's definitely fun, and I appreciate the casual feeling of it....what does it say about an expansion that barely 10 days after release that the largest draw to the area is....just fishing and ignoring everything else?

As a number of other folks have mentioned, this seems like a huge step back from previous expansions.

I do appreciate the alternate path to start the turtle collection. Good job. Still don't know why it wasn't unlocked at the end of the story, like the Skyscale was. Especially since the story is 15 chapters long. The start of the turtle seems like a reasonable reward at the end. Who decided it was a great idea to lock the only mount of the expansion behind a complicated meta? Especially given that ANet specifically stated it would be EASIER than skyscale. It should have gone like this:
"Hey, let's make this easier than skyscale."
"So, we should gate it behind a super hard meta."
"What? No. That's literally the opposite thing."

The end.

But as it's been observed, that creates even LESS incentive to attempt the meta. I'll still play it sometimes, as will others, because I think it's interesting - but surely you have to realize that it will only cause even more players to abandon the meta.  And once players have gotten their turtles...what percent do you think will actually come back to EoD? I'm not talking about rewards from metas and general loot, I'm talking about compelling enough content to WANT to return.

This really does feel like Istan, all over again. Get the few things you need from the map, and then there's no reason to go back to it.  Or worse, maps like Fields of Ruin. Cursed Shore? Straits of Devastation?

So, after 2 years of hype:
A cool turtle, that only a few can currently manage to get. To the point where ANet had to provide a second way to get it.
A boss fight that largely turns players away, because it wasn't tested properly.
One really pretty map, one city map that feels like a ghost town because it isn't nearly as populated as trailers showed, one map that feels like Tangled Depths all over, and a map is basically only for a meta. Like Dragonfall.
Fun Jade bots that sometimes help out, but of course, all the other jade mechanics are isolated to just EoD. Just like most of the Icebrood stuff is useful only in Icebrood.

Edit, since the supply drop is running: And a "End of Dragons Launch Supply Requisition" that....basically has nothing to do with End of Dragons. You get the Red Crane, Gold Essence weapon choice, and the Expedition contract. The rest is just completely generic rewards. Including a handful of cheap dyes. No chair released for Cantha? No mount skins? 16 rewards, and only 3 of them are new. Disappointing doesn't even begin to cover it.

Edit: Oh, I see. They just released a skiff skin, and turtle skins...but through the gem store. Thusly ignoring all the folks that bought the Supply Requisition.

Is this a triumph?
 

Edited March 15, 2022 by NeutralBurn.3829

[Linken.6345]

17 minutes ago, Tungsten Monarch.6058 said:

I have slightly more influence over who I'm doing the strike mission with, what builds they are running, etc. 

And to add to this there is no time limit on the strike so take how ever long you need.

[LieutenantDan.5216]

14 hours ago, Sentient Anomaly.9473 said:

 

Second, in the March 15 update, we’ll be providing players with an alternate path for acquiring the Siege Turtle Egg, which unlocks the collection required for the Siege Turtle mount. We’ll be adding a new vendor to the Jade Sea map that will sell the Siege Turtle Egg at the cost of 200 Writs of the Jade Sea. The Siege Turtle Egg will continue to be awarded to players that successfully complete the “Battle for Jade Sea” meta event, so players will have the choice to unlock the collection via a challenging meta encounter or through time investment.

 

 

Excellent choice! I really like how it functions as loss protection. No matter what, a person can progress towards unlocking their turtle from participating in the meta.

 

This feels very inline with what I love about GW2 design.

 

Thank you, Anet!

 

[Shadows Creed.3902]

Not being troll but honestly. Knew they had to put a new way to get Mount. Ya can't sell mount skin in gem store if virtually no one got it.

 

Won't be shocked when turtle mount skin avail shortly on or after the 15th

[Stelawrat.6589]

11 hours ago, Cynder.2509 said:

Not sarcasm but a real thing if you want successful and organized runs. 
You need to have brain and be experienced to succeeed at "hard" content. The ahrd stuff is a joke anyways in this game. The playerbase just isn't fit for this content and it really shows. 
This meta will turn in yet another 11111 spam meta after the nerf sadly. 
What's a "aaaagrs" by the way??? 

Then no one, especially those among the raiders, should ever encourage Anet to ramp up their PR team, to encourage new players to the franchise, which they did for this expac. 

How are new players, having never played this game before, supposed to know about the impact of LI, or the need to refer to third party sites like SnowCrows for viable builds, in order to complete an event in the first map? 

The first map of a brand new gaming experience that was marketed to them... but oh btw, they can't play until they've become as proficient, as players with up to 12 years experience under their belts. 

For the record, I know that "aaaagrs" is aaaages; the same way that I know that your, "The ahrd stuff" is really, The hard stuff. 

[Heibi.4251]

7 minutes ago, Shadows Creed.3902 said:

Not being troll but honestly. Knew they had to put a new way to get Mount. Ya can't sell mount skin in gem store if virtually no one got it.

 

Won't be shocked when turtle mount skin avail shortly on or after the 15th

And one skin I will not be buying.

[Stelawrat.6589]

11 hours ago, miles.5961 said:

Fixing the consecutive bites/side switching definitely helped with the success rate. I've already got my 4th kill in and it has been a ton of fun every time (always loved doing green (or wisp) just so I can see more of those messages). Absolutely stellar music too.

 

A good tip is to bring revive skills. If you know you won't be able to contribute much DPSwise, being able to rez people as frequently and quickly as possible (no matter the class, because every class has a revive skill) will contribute so much more to the fight.

This ^^ I heard WP say something very similar & have seen someone else post as well, but not quite as clearly. 

These are the kind of suggestions I wish more of you successful guys would post up for the rest of us, because I don't want to see this meta nerfed to faceroll status. I want to learn, but it has to be within reason. 

[EveningTempo.4796]

The comments I received for making this post is probably why Anet isn't going to change anything. The players think it's a good meta.

[Heretic.6928]

As is, any success rate below 50 - 60% is untenable. Someone said above in their 20 attempts they had success twice, and seemed happy about it?! With 10% success rate in a 2 hour meta?! Makes no sense. I'm sorry, but you cannot ask players who have a purpose in the game to spend hours upon hours for literally no payout. 

 

I am really thinking of leaving the game now. Why did I even pre order or buy gems. The sour taste in my mouth probably won't wash away for weeks. GW2 is the only game I play, but I am genuinely thinking of leaving. I have been unable to do multiple metas in maps (bugs all over the 1st map meta). Never do I remember having this much frustration in 10 years of playing. 

[Heibi.4251]

7 minutes ago, EveningTempo.4796 said:

The comments I received for making this post is probably why Anet isn't going to change anything. The players think it's a good meta.

Because ANET clearly doesn't read their forums. That much has been made pretty clear in this case.

[KurokouNekoki.7891]

53 minutes ago, NeutralBurn.3829 said:

53 minutes ago, NeutralBurn.3829 said:

The initial cheers of "Let's go get this turtle" from the first two days, took no time in evolving into "There's nothing wrong with the meta, you're just a bad player." Or LFGs kicking players out, if they didn't bring specific specs to the fight.  Yes, it's a significantly more difficult fight/mechanics, but the amount of player-shaming that is happening is unbelievable.
 

"Let's go get this turtle together."

Here, I have fixed it for you!

Edited March 10, 2022 by KurokouNekoki.7891

[Stelawrat.6589]

11 hours ago, Cynder.2509 said:

The word casual explains it all sadly... 
So many great metas have been ruined. Also a lot of us long time players only play rarely because of nothing to do in this game at all except the weekly raids and daily T4 fractals. This is the reason why such a good game has begun dying down. There's not much to do for veterans. 

The word casual is way too overused. 

If there's not much in the game for the vets to do, then why don't the vets review the best of the best metas, raids etc., currently in the game & formulate ways in which they could be hardened. 

Review other mechanics you all enjoyed overcoming, learning, whatever & formulate ways in which those could be modified, to renew interest in them for you guys personally. 

Make a thread on these forums specifically for your Vet Suggestions. List all of these nerfed raids, metas in subgroups & let's see your suggestions. Who knows? Anet might not only read your ideas, but they may even try to implement some of them. 

That or challenge yourself & your vet friends, by redoing all that you've achieved, all the raids, the metas, using the typical gear, stats etc. that someone without all your knowledge would use. 

Should keep you all busy for awhile. 😛

[NeutralBurn.3829]

1 hour ago, Hauwlyn.8051 said:

It's insane to think that even the biggest streamer in full tryhard mode has managed to fail it some when the same guy putting in the same effort can lead a dragon's stand speedrun that clears in a 3rd of the average time of that meta. Maybe if you still DO want to base your tuning on his metrics you should consider his deeds and not his words, especially when he admits he enjoys the chaos this whole situation has brought.

Streamers aren't the heart and soul of GW2. Who cares about them? Who cares if they think they're the biggest, or have most followers, or whatever. They don't represent the vast majority of the players, so no, Anet doesn't need to feel any obligation to "consider his deeds."  If anything, the exact opposite is true.. People like your "biggest streamer" are part of the problem, not the solution.

And given that the mechanic between Dragon's Stand and Dragon's End are VASTLY different, there is absolutely zero reason to draw comparison between them. That's like saying "I can speed run Mario Bros 3 in 1/3rd the time of Mario 64." Completely irrelevant.

You're completely on the wrong wavelength with your post.

 

Edited March 10, 2022 by NeutralBurn.3829

[Zok.4956]

52 minutes ago, NovaanVerdiano.6174 said:

See, the thing is, even with open world builds it would work. You don't need finetuned meta builds. The fastest confirmed kills etc. are with 6-7min left on the clock or so. There is PLENTY of room for mistakes, lack of optimisation etc. - The problem is that a lot of those builds aren't "open world" builds, they're abominations of builds. That's what ultimately happens when you give players a lot of freedom and it's the very same reason most other MMOs railroad you into specific builds extremely heavily to the point where there's (almost) no freedom at all. Best you can do is try to steer them towards something that makes more sense.

What's wrong with teaching people how to set up subgroups for a meta in order to gain a lot of damage in return?

When I started playing GW2, a lot of years ago, I started with an Engi and only used flamethrower and rifle. Because I liked the "feeling" (sound and visuals) a lot and it was fun. It was only when I started to play fractals and raids (also years ago) that I started to care about dps, rotation, build, etc. And when I sometimes ask other players, why they use this or that pet as a ranger, I still hear often "because I like the pet, its fun".

Some players choose their class, weapons etc, because of their visuals/sound/feeling. And some other players choose whats best for the type of content/role they play. The game gives a lot of nice looking options for weapons etc. but fails in making all those options useful and balanced and viable. This results in a big DPS gap between players (more than in a lot of other games).

[Blaeys.3102]

15 hours ago, Sentient Anomaly.9473 said:

challenging yet doable encounter for most of our players.

I love that you clearly spell that out as the goal - and have faith that you can accomplish this.

 

I would really like you to look at the RNG factors in the fight as well.  If both I and my friend do the fight at 6 pm, but on different versions of the map, the chance of my success or their failure shouldn't be based on how many times the boss switches sides or how many break phases one of us gets compared to the other.

 

Im also sure that there are certain combinations of the RNG events that likely make the fight way ABOVE what you would consider accessible.  

 

If the difficulty is based primarily on RNG, then I would say it is a poorly designed fight.

[KurokouNekoki.7891]

3 minutes ago, Zok.4956 said:

Some players choose their class, weapons etc, because of their visuals/sound/feeling. And some other players choose what's best for the type of content/role they play. The game gives a lot of nice looking options for weapons etc. but fails in making all those options useful and balanced and viable. This results in a big DPS gap between players (more than in a lot of other games).

Technically anyone who plays the game for the Fashion Wars (#TheTrueEndGame) xD

[Stelawrat.6589]

12 hours ago, Cynder.2509 said:

Simple solution. Don't rezz and tell people to wp instead. It's a huge dps loss otherwise. I've seen less and less people being revived in the last 9 years because of taht. Dead people scale the boss and rezzing is a dps loss. You can event make an instant wp with the jade bot now. Why is this so hard to understand. Especially the "Leaves No Hero Behind" people aren't rezzing because the title is just for shwoing off like other titles. 

Normally, in any fight anywhere, if I die I WP & get back as fast as I can. That's the norm because of the scaling & I'm glad that you point that out here, because a lot of new players don't realize that they're gimping the remaining players by either laying there dead, or causing others to try to rez them. 

But, in this case, "If you know you won't be able to contribute much DPSwise, " , then I thought that it made more sense, to at least contribute by rezzing, staying out of the way as much as possible, rezzing & saving the loss of travel time by those WP'ing.

Agree about the Jade Bot, just not sure about how common they are; if those doing the meta, at any given time, have them. 

Edited March 10, 2022 by Stelawrat.6589

[NovaanVerdiano.6174]

19 minutes ago, Heretic.6928 said:

As is, any success rate below 50 - 60% is untenable. Someone said above in their 20 attempts they had success twice, and seemed happy about it?! With 10% success rate in a 2 hour meta?! Makes no sense. I'm sorry, but you cannot ask players who have a purpose in the game to spend hours upon hours for literally no payout. 

 

I am really thinking of leaving the game now. Why did I even pre order or buy gems. The sour taste in my mouth probably won't wash away for weeks. GW2 is the only game I play, but I am genuinely thinking of leaving. I have been unable to do multiple metas in maps (bugs all over the 1st map meta). Never do I remember having this much frustration in 10 years of playing. 

Nah you misunderstood me there. I don't think 10% success rate is anywhere near feasible for something you can attempt once every two hours. Hence why it needs to receive more finetuning to (significantly) increase the clear rates. I simply don't think the boss needs a full overhaul, and rather it's something that can be achieved by number tweaking.

I was just saying that despite the low success rate, I'm still enjoying the meta and having fun with it.

[Premu.2349]

I feel like there should be some "rule" so that the CC phase doesn't align with the tail phase.
It doesn't make any sense to kill the breakbar when she has the tail up, since she won't be taking enough damage, so everyone will go to the tail, but by the time the tail is done, the breakbar phase will not be there anymore, a breakbar that could've made the kill possible, potentially.
I have this happen every other fight, in my last one (just failed right now) I had it happen TWICE.
(this along with a great combo of: 22%, tail up, ignored cause of the boss being so close to phase, TWO bites in a row, but that's another story)

Honestly, in my humble and unimportant opinion, the problem is just the RNG. I think the fight with the right timings can be as challenging as anyone wants, but RNG really just makes it annoying.
The worst part is seeing it already doomed to fail, trying anyway cause you never know (after all, you already spent all this time preparing it) then seeing the little hope you had left get very slowly squished, again and again.
I've done this fight TWENTY times now, at least 5 times with an organized squad requiring 100 LI's (the lowest), with quickness and alacrity in every single subgroup, full 10% and offensive buff.
It always fails for the same reasons.
(btw before the bite patch I had, in the same fight, 5 bites in a row, then after a phase 4 more bites in a row t_t)

[Stelawrat.6589]

12 hours ago, Cynder.2509 said:

my fps drop too because there's no way to turn off player infusions or weapon effects yet. I even crashed and disconnected a few times (crash might be due to the DX11 beta enabled as the whole map usually crashed while dc might be coming from german internet which is prehistoric and the worst internet in the world or because of Anet servers). I have an RTX and a pretty good cpu. I can run Cyberpunk at 60 to 80 fps but in gw2 in EoD, especially Dragon's End meta it drops to 20 or 15 fps when gw2 is running at 250 fps normally. There definitely needs to be some performance optimization tweaks for EoD. 

"...when gw2 is running at 250 fps normally." 

Holy good gawd!!! 250 fps!! wth!

No wonder the raids, metas, tough content is something you enjoy so readily. This explains a lot!  

[Arthon.5394]

Did the meta after the changes and addressing the tail seems to have solved the major issue. Was quite the gain compared to my last successful group, granted it was still by an organized one.

I would assume these changes took some of the challenge for truly organized raiding-oriented groups, but it's still generally there. Less tails also mean less Exposed phases.

 

The real question is if this meta became accessible enough. But those desperate for the turtle have now an alternative. I still think metas should be fun and present a degree of difficulty, should not be an AFK fest. At the same time, it's an open world event and doesn't feel right to have it somehow restricted.

 

I guess we'll see the results onward. 

Edited March 10, 2022 by Everwyn.8537

[Drakth.1875]

23 minutes ago, Stelawrat.6589 said:

"...when gw2 is running at 250 fps normally." 

Holy good gawd!!! 250 fps!! wth!

No wonder the raids, metas, tough content is something you enjoy so readily. This explains a lot!  

When i go to a meta in DE i turn all graphics down. Much more dps is not like im going to sightseeing 

[Blaeys.3102]

31 minutes ago, Premu.2349 said:

I feel like there should be some "rule" so that the CC phase doesn't align with the tail phase.
It doesn't make any sense to kill the breakbar when she has the tail up, since she won't be taking enough damage, so everyone will go to the tail, but by the time the tail is done, the breakbar phase will not be there anymore, a breakbar that could've made the kill possible, potentially.
I have this happen every other fight, in my last one (just failed right now) I had it happen TWICE.
(this along with a great combo of: 22%, tail up, ignored cause of the boss being so close to phase, TWO bites in a row, but that's another story)

Honestly, in my humble and unimportant opinion, the problem is just the RNG. I think the fight with the right timings can be as challenging as anyone wants, but RNG really just makes it annoying.
The worst part is seeing it already doomed to fail, trying anyway cause you never know (after all, you already spent all this time preparing it) then seeing the little hope you had left get very slowly squished, again and again.
I've done this fight TWENTY times now, at least 5 times with an organized squad requiring 100 LI's (the lowest), with quickness and alacrity in every single subgroup, full 10% and offensive buff.
It always fails for the same reasons.
(btw before the bite patch I had, in the same fight, 5 bites in a row, then after a phase 4 more bites in a row t_t)

 

Really, if we break a boss's bar, they should be considered stunned and not do anything else at all