Virtuoso Weak Compared To Other Elite Specs?

[Vunter.6245]

I have mained a Mesmer since GW2 launch and it is my favorite class in the game, but curious if anyone else feels Virtuoso is weak compared to the other elite specs and other classes elite specs.  I have tried multiple flavors of condi specs and power specs.  ; I have tried dagger/pistol and scepter torch, sword/sword and staff, and a GS power spec.  I'm open-minded to the idea of virtuoso, but I feel like the mesmer already has good condi and power specs and virtuoso doesn't really offer up that much that would make me want to choose it over the other specs.  

I have only tried Willbender and Harbinger thus far.  But these specs seem stronger or better balanced compared to their other class elite specs and other class specs.  Curious if other people feel like the virtuoso is missing something?

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

PvE or PvP?

[Vunter.6245]

1 minute ago, agrippastrilemma.8741 said:

PvE or PvP?

 

I haven't tried it in PVP so maybe it's better there.  Only in PVE.

[phokus.8934]

3 minutes ago, Vunter.6245 said:

 

I haven't tried it in PVP so maybe it's better there.  Only in PVE.

In PvP Virtuoso just doesn't work. 

PvE it benches fairly high in damage.  However, it just does damage whereas other elites that are hybrids score higher.  Virtuoso is in a weird spot where it's supposed to be a selfish damage build but it does it decently, not exceedingly great.

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

1 hour ago, Vunter.6245 said:

 

I haven't tried it in PVP so maybe it's better there.  Only in PVE.

Ah no I mean that it's very bleak if it feels weak in PvE, because it is even worse in PvP

Edited March 7, 2022 by agrippastrilemma.8741

[Mell.4873]

9 minutes ago, agrippastrilemma.8741 said:

Ah no I mean that it's very bleak if it feels weak in PvE, because it is even worse in PvP

Its fine pve, nothing to write home about. The main weakness in pve is that it has no boon which lowers the dps alot.

[OriOri.8724]

Virtuoso feels weak because its core design is flawed and unfinished.

[TheOneWhoSighs.7513]

7 hours ago, OriOri.8724 said:

Virtuoso feels weak because its core design is flawed and unfinished.

That just describes Mesmer as a whole. The entire class, though I love its concept and general play style, is a complete mess.

[Mell.4873]

What a weird flip. Normally bashing Virtuoso gets likes but not here, that nice to see. 

[Hallow.7368]

2 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

What a weird flip. Normally bashing Virtuoso gets likes but not here, that nice to see. 

That's good. Not liking it =/= bad. They gave basically every other new spec access to alac/quickness and mesmer already has 2 specs with alac and one of them has quickness too, it doesn't need another. It NEEDED this proper power spec. There are plenty of spots for pure dps specs in the game.

[Mell.4873]

11 minutes ago, TheOneWhoSighs.7513 said:

That just describes Mesmer as a whole. The entire class, though I love its concept and general play style, is a complete mess.

No thats not true, many die hard mesmer here will tell you why. 

Much like the other two light armor classes there is a huge amount of utility in playing mesmer. I mean no other class is like Chronomancer which can self-quickness while spawning clones and slowing and taunting enemies. Basically it lock down groups, bosses and ties them up with phantasms. 

Mirage is another amazing spec being able to duel bounties without any help. I often am the only one left alive during a good living world bounty. 

Finally we have alacrity mirage which can output so much aegis is can become a healer without touching healing power. 

Edited March 8, 2022 by Mell.4873

[Mell.4873]

Just now, Hallow.7368 said:

That's good. Not liking it =/= bad. They gave basically every other new spec access to alac/quickness and mesmer already has 2 specs with alac and one of them has quickness too, it doesn't need another. It NEEDED this proper power spec. There are plenty of spots for pure dps specs in the game.

Yess love your response, what I have been trying to explain the mesmer mains on here. 

[Vunter.6245]

9 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

What a weird flip. Normally bashing Virtuoso gets likes but not here, that nice to see. 

 

For me it's not that I don't like it, I just know they can make it better. 

[TheOneWhoSighs.7513]

6 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

No thats not true, many die hard mesmer here will tell you why. 

I much like the other two light armor classes there is a huge amount of utility in playing mesmer. I mean no other class is like Chronomancer which can self-quickness while spawning clones and slowing and taunting enemies. Basically it lock down groups, bosses and ties them up with phantasms. 

Mirage is another amazing spec being able to duel bounties without any help. I often am the only one left alive during a good living world bounty. 

Finally we have alacrity mirage which can output so much aegis is can become a healer without touching healing power. 

As someone that mainly plays pvp/wvw.
Class is a freaking mess.

It doesn't really show its hairs much in PvE anymore because, well. PvE in this game is kind of baby mode if I'm honest. Slight DPS losses here and there, and clunkiness in the delay on your shatters doesn't have an impact in PvE.

Edited March 8, 2022 by TheOneWhoSighs.7513

[Vunter.6245]

5 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

No thats not true, many die hard mesmer here will tell you why. 

Much like the other two light armor classes there is a huge amount of utility in playing mesmer. I mean no other class is like Chronomancer which can self-quickness while spawning clones and slowing and taunting enemies. Basically it lock down groups, bosses and ties them up with phantasms. 

Mirage is another amazing spec being able to duel bounties without any help. I often am the only one left alive during a good living world bounty. 

Finally we have alacrity mirage which can output so much aegis is can become a healer without touching healing power. 

 

You make it a lot a great points and when I do fractals with pugs I often find myself correcting people when they bash Mesmer.  Having said that using alacrity as an example; I think people see that other classes now can bring alacrity to the party using a skill rotation that isn't as involved.  I've played Mesmer for years so I don't have issues pumping alacrity out but I do think they made it easier for other classes to give alacrity.  

[Vunter.6245]

3 minutes ago, TheOneWhoSighs.7513 said:

As someone that mainly plays pvp/wvw.
Class is a freaking mess.

It doesn't really show its hairs much in PvE anymore because, well. PvE in this game is kind of baby mode if I'm honest. Slight DPS losses here and there, and clunkiness in the delay on your shatters doesn't have an impact in PvE.

 

I think a better way to look at is Mesmer is in a spot where it needs some love.  I've found over the years that Arenanet tends to focus more dev time into certain elites and builds over others.  I still love the Mesmer over all the other classes, but at the same-time I would like to see them make some tweaks and adjustments.  I think one easy way they could add a lot would be to add boons to the bladseongs. 

To me I feel like the spec is like 80% there.  It's just missing that little extra panache

[TheOneWhoSighs.7513]

14 minutes ago, Vunter.6245 said:

 

I think a better way to look at is Mesmer is in a spot where it needs some love.  I've found over the years that Arenanet tends to focus more dev time into certain elites and builds over others.  I still love the Mesmer over all the other classes, but at the same-time I would like to see them make some tweaks and adjustments.  I think one easy way they could add a lot would be to add boons to the bladseongs. 

To me I feel like the spec is like 80% there.  It's just missing that little extra panache

Personally I've found overtime that ANet strips everything this class has going for it in pvp, slaps it on another class except even stronger, and calls it a day.

 

Veil? Hahaha, who needs that when we have stealth gyros + superspeed.

 

Copying boons? Who even needs that when having a rev in your party both does more damage *and* keeps the group at 25 stacks of might + Perma swiftness.

 

The one thing we even have anymore is boon strip. Except oh wait. Winds of disenchantment exists.

 

Which isn't to say Mesmer is unplayable, but the class is just not in a good spot.

Or perhaps more accurately. Not in the most fun spot pvp wise.

Edited March 8, 2022 by TheOneWhoSighs.7513

[Vunter.6245]

2 minutes ago, TheOneWhoSighs.7513 said:

Which isn't to say Mesmer is unplayable, but the class is just not in a good spot.

Or perhaps more accurately. Not in the most fun spot pvp wise.

 

Like you said, I don't think its unplayable or complete garbo; I do think though it was left hanging in terms of execution.  I don't think it's busted to where they couldn't easily go in and fix it a bit.  For me I look at Virtuoso and I think what would make me want to take it over Mirage or Chrono.  At the moment it doesn't feel like it differentiates itself enough. Sure the bladesongs and Psionic skills differentiate itself, but the performance of it doesn't and Mirage and Chrono already fills some of those holes that Virtuoso is supposedly trying to fill. 

[Hallow.7368]

2 minutes ago, Vunter.6245 said:

 

Like you said, I don't think its unplayable or complete garbo; I do think though it was left hanging in terms of execution.  I don't think it's busted to where they couldn't easily go in and fix it a bit.  For me I look at Virtuoso and I think what would make me want to take it over Mirage or Chrono.  At the moment it doesn't feel like it differentiates itself enough. Sure the bladesongs and Psionic skills differentiate itself, but the performance of it doesn't and Mirage and Chrono already fills some of those holes that Virtuoso is supposedly trying to fill. 

Like what? Mesmer severely lacked a good fractal build. Here we have virt. pchrono was the only really ok option but it's a power spec with ramp up times that are longer than some of the condi specs in the game.

[Mell.4873]

1 hour ago, Vunter.6245 said:

 

I think a better way to look at is Mesmer is in a spot where it needs some love.  I've found over the years that Arenanet tends to focus more dev time into certain elites and builds over others.  I still love the Mesmer over all the other classes, but at the same-time I would like to see them make some tweaks and adjustments.  I think one easy way they could add a lot would be to add boons to the bladseongs. 

To me I feel like the spec is like 80% there.  It's just missing that little extra panache

True I mean it took years for any sort of sword 3 rework and it was only because they where forced to for Virtuoso. 

[Mell.4873]

1 hour ago, Hallow.7368 said:

Like what? Mesmer severely lacked a good fractal build. Here we have virt. pchrono was the only really ok option but it's a power spec with ramp up times that are longer than some of the condi specs in the game.

What are you talking about mirage is pretty good in fractals, about one of only ahandful of elites you can bring into CM. 

[Nephalem.8921]

13 hours ago, phokus.8934 said:

In PvP Virtuoso just doesn't work. 

PvE it benches fairly high in damage.  However, it just does damage whereas other elites that are hybrids score higher.  Virtuoso is in a weird spot where it's supposed to be a selfish damage build but it does it decently, not exceedingly great.

its a 40k power dps build. the only build higher is cata. And it can burst. would say its very good in raids and fractals. anet just needs to revert exposed.

[Nephalem.8921]

1 hour ago, Mell.4873 said:

What are you talking about mirage is pretty good in fractals, about one of only ahandful of elites you can bring into CM. 

If all fractals are 100cm then yes. Mirage is bad in some of the other ones. especially if you play with people who can press buttons.

The only specs being useless in cms  are spellbreaker, druid and untamed. 2/3 of ranger basically. Every class is good in fractals now. before mes was fairly dead there.

Edited March 8, 2022 by Nephalem.8921

[Axl.8924]

3 hours ago, Vunter.6245 said:

 

Like you said, I don't think its unplayable or complete garbo; I do think though it was left hanging in terms of execution.  I don't think it's busted to where they couldn't easily go in and fix it a bit.  For me I look at Virtuoso and I think what would make me want to take it over Mirage or Chrono.  At the moment it doesn't feel like it differentiates itself enough. Sure the bladesongs and Psionic skills differentiate itself, but the performance of it doesn't and Mirage and Chrono already fills some of those holes that Virtuoso is supposedly trying to fill. 

Maybe make virtuoso something like single burst class that is above chrono by buffing it and fixing some issues it has with the actual weapons. Seriously there is a weird delay on the shatters which shouldn't be there.

Considering chrono has a delay in that you need to build up clones to do burst damage if they fix up power virt we could see it surpass chrono enough for instant burst hopefully.

Edited March 8, 2022 by Axl.8924

[Dadnir.5038]

4 hours ago, Hallow.7368 said:

There are plenty of spots for pure dps specs in the game.

That was in good ol'time. Now if you don't do damage, support, debuff, control and have good survivability you're no longer competitive. In a few year a character will even have to be able to make a coffee it's left hand for the player while dealing damage, supporting, disabling and not dying to anything to be a competitive character.