The line in the sand

[Freya.9075]

Depending on the changes, it has at least a chance to survive and gain players. They could tweak the rewards a bit too so ppl feel it’s worth doing. Time will tell how it goes. I hope it doesn’t die out cause it really is a fun meta

Edited March 11, 2022 by Freya.9075

[Gibson.4036]

1 minute ago, HellsPriest.6745 said:

I'm not entirely in disagreement with that, but I'm still fighting for the one thing at least keeping it semi alive at the moment.

I do find it bizarre. They clearly had it figured out in Drizzlewood. Track participation, award along the way, make sure they're good rewards. Add some sort of mechanic to encourage people to do the whole thing.

So for DE they added the "do the whole thing" mechanics of buffs for participating in the pre-events and limiting chest opening if you don't. But good rewards along the way? They seem to have forgotten that.

[HellsPriest.6745]

1 minute ago, Freya.9075 said:

Depending on the changes, it has at least a chance to survive and gain players. They could tweak the rewards a bit too so ppl feel it’s worth doing. Time will tell how it goes. I hope it doesn’t die out cause it really is a fun meta

The meta is super fun, but like anything else...even while fun, if you don't get some kind of decent rewards...people will just do the other fun metas that have better rewards. I think this will kill the map/meta quicker because it gives even less drive to do it.

[Einsof.1457]

1 hour ago, Saelgash.7014 said:

How they wish to play is totally up to them.  Your stance is you enjoy the challenge. I totally get it. Do you believe this much ranting would have been there if the mount had not been attached to it? The amount of complaints on this forum would have drastically gone down. 

 

The above post that you "completely agreed with" implies that anyone who has voiced their concerns are a bunch of auto-attackers. What about those who actually pull their weight? Who have no say over who gets to join the instance ? Did it possibly occur to you that maybe there does need to be some fine tuning to the event? 

 

Whirlpools cc bar? If i recall right we got whirlpools during the phase shes spinning around.Maybe thats working ads intended I don't recall seeing that .

The whole break CC with an item that requires you to use Waypoint stations from another zone ?

Swapping sides right after breaking cc bars?

Horrendous loot ?

Lets not even talk about the sub grouping and boon distribution ?

 

Are there basic mechanics being missed. Yes there is. Perhaps if all of the content wasn't face roll till now then things would have been better. Whether you believe it or not there are folks out there who are pulling their weight and are still being penalized for it on the sole grounds of this being an open event. Remove the egg form the event . Add different rewards for the Meta. Disconnect the Lore text from the meta. Let the fishing buff remain even if you change zones. Grant rewards for challenging content to those who complete the meta. Leave the ones who want no part out of it.  As this is its a horrid implementation of good content. 

 

The difference between my points and the OP is I'm not trying to ruin your game while I'm offering a suggestion to be inclusive of all players. 

I don't see people complaining that single player RPGs need more MMO content. Why is it the other way around, I wonder? Why don't MMO players want more...MMO? Ya know...since they are playing *supposedly* an MMO?

[Scolix.4879]

16 minutes ago, HellsPriest.6745 said:

The point is, the whiners won...they get the nerf of a running around claiming they beat something when they didn't and will have the mount they "paid for"...apparently?

 

Point is, watch how fast this meta dies after everyone is done with their story/achievements in the map. I guarantee this the case.

The map is already kind of dead if you compare it to older maps where people do events and stuff.

The self proclaimed elite already got the mount and left the map and people who are left cant even get the event rolling let alone complete it.

I have already accepted that i won't ever get the mount just as i won't ever get the skyscale because both require crap ton of stuff to do that i do not or care at all.

 

[HellsPriest.6745]

Let's talk about the other side of this? What about the people who LOVE how hard the dragon is, the people who LOVE the challenge. We keep talking about a balance for all players of all game types.

 

Well for the people who want FREE STUFF because they "bought" EOD with their hard earned money. Let's take a look at what you got for literally doing practically nothing.

YOU GOT...

 - 4 maps that are easily completable.

 - Storyline that was overly easy, enjoyable as well.

 - A skiff boat skill(for doing 2 heart quests)

 - Fishing (for practically doing nothing to get)

 - A jadebot that was given to you during your storyline

 - 3 other map metas that are easy and fun

WE(people who like a challenge) GOT...

 - 1 map with some fun meta and a challenging dragon at the end.

 

So what does Anet do? They nerf the one map with the challenging dragon at the end, because....turtle mount. You all got all that other stuff practically free, why can't ONE thing be a challenge?

 

Think about that for a moment.

[Tails.9372]

14 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

They clearly had it figured out in Drizzlewood.

Nah, getting to the last boss in Drizzlewood is a rather tediously long process. The place where they actually "got it" was Istan, at least for the bigger "we want you to play it regularly" kind of maps. You had one big meta that didn't overstay its welcome, a couple of other pretty rewarding events that take between 5-10 min and other side activities like bounties, chests and meteors.

On the other hand Siren's Landing has probably the best content / event structure for the smaller "flavor of the day" kind of LW maps as everything (even the meta) can be done solo / with a small group while still being decently rewarding.

[Gibson.4036]

8 minutes ago, Tails.9372 said:

Nah, getting to the last boss in Drizzlewood is a rather tediously long process.

And yet people repeat it like addicts, because it rewards them along the way, and rewards them well.

I wasn't saying Drizzlewood is the most enjoyable, though I do like the south half. But they really did figure out how to make a meta keep bringing people back.

[Woof.8246]

How about instead of the Turtle they, put the Ascended skins (pre-Legendary skins) of WvW+PvP+Raid gear, to retain map population? 

So I won't have to go in that boring snoozfest of WvW? 

Edited March 11, 2022 by Woof.8246

[Peterson.5172]

1 hour ago, HellsPriest.6745 said:

I'm not disparaging anyone. I'm not expecting people to play any way they don't want to play. I'm just wanting people to stop whining.

 

I'm glad you have a "business to run" as if that provides absolutely anything to this conversation lol. We all have lives outside of here. I see that you are trying to demean a video game to nothing, so I suggest if a game means that little to you...then why play? You are basically saying "my real life is so busy with business accomplishments, I want to come into a video game and get handed EVERYTHING free, because I'm just busy"...I'm glad your outside life should dictate the mechanics of a game......like, whaaa?

First of all, if people voicing their concerns is whining, you are whining as well. It's up to anet if they want to do something or not. In a game where 80-90% of the playerbase is considered "casual", unless the people looking for challenging content can spend enough $$$ to beat that, anet is going to make content accessible for them too.

 

And you are misinterpreting his words maliciously, he's not demeaning video games, he's simply pointing out his lifestyle doesnt allow for something like DE, and as his personal choice, he just wants to drop in now and again for an enjoyable time, (without having to: use a meta build, get on discord, roll the dice on a good group, prep 2 hrs in advance, and still fail half the time)

 

42 minutes ago, HellsPriest.6745 said:

Let's talk about the other side of this? What about the people who LOVE how hard the dragon is, the people who LOVE the challenge. We keep talking about a balance for all players of all game types.

"people who like challenge" asked for raids years ago, they got them. it's not anet's fault they gatekept it to less than 5% of the playerbase.

 

 

DE is probably going to get nerfed further over time, to a point where random pug with no requirements will probably do it with 30-50% reliability. Instead of shouting at other players, why not petition anet for an instanced raid version with high reward?

Edited March 11, 2022 by Peterson.5172

[HellsPriest.6745]

1 minute ago, Peterson.5172 said:

First of all, if people voicing their concerns is whining, you are whining as well. It's up to anet if they want to do something or not. In a game where 80-90% of the playerbase is considered "casual", unless the people looking for challenging content can spend enough $$$ to beat that, anet is going to make content accessible for them too.

 

And you are misinterpreting his words maliciously, he's not demeaning video games, he's simply pointing out his lifestyle doesnt allow for something like DE, and as his personal choice, he just wants to drop in now and again for an enjoyable time, (without having to: use a meta build, get on discord, roll the dice on a good group, prep 2 hrs in advance, and still fail half the time)

 

you asked for raids years ago, you got them. it's not anet's fault you gatekept it to less than 5% of the playerbase.

 

 

DE is probably going to get nerfed further over time, to a point where random pug with no requirements will probably do it with 30-50% reliability. Instead of shouting at other players, why not petition anet for an instanced raid version with high reward?

I'm only gonna respond to the "gatekept" thing. I never gatekept anyone, I made one of the biggest gaming communities within this game. When Tequatl got revamped, I started TTS which helped THOUSANDS of players learn the mechanics and get their Tequatl achievements. I broke the kitten gate down and helped many get done what they couldn't figure out otherwise.

 

If you read back, most of the EOD content was made for CASUAL as most EOD things(jadebot, skiff, fishing, etc.) are all easily obtainable....ONE thing, is not...so I'd say the balance scale is leaning A LOT more on the casual side than the challenging side... I'm only asking that the challenging side not be left in the dust all together.

[Lizandre.3514]

13 hours ago, HellsPriest.6745 said:

[...]

Games are an extension of life, meaning you do/earn something, you get something for it. Whining is not doing anything, nor is it a mechanic that should be valued in life or a game to get an item. Otherwise, there is no point to builds, no point to metas, no point to any of it...just log on, pick a mount, pick an outfit and run around.

[...]

No

A game is a game. If I wanted an extension of life, as in real life, I would, tou know, "play" real life.

Maybe you are truly bad at real life and so you need to have a game where you can feel superior. I may or may not be "good" or "bad" at real life but I would certainly not mistake one for another.

You are a troubled person.

[BigShow.8460]

If the people who already got their turtles loved the challenge so much, why aren't they repeating it often?  You would think there would be progressively more successful DE maps if everyone kept going back for that "challenging content".  Op likes to take the stance that there isn't enough hard content and complaining that their "achievement" of winning somehow is lessened by the fact that other may get the reward more easily.  The only person it really matters to is you.  Why do you feel like you need something to flaunt to others who haven't been as fortunate to have gotten into the early "organized" groups.  It's not like DE is an event that rewards the individual for their contribution.  There's 60+ other people that you have to depend on being "Good" in order to win and that's asking a bit much out of open world content that gates something that was a huge selling point for the expansion.  Then you have to fight with the map cap if you do manage to get a "community" of experienced players together and become exclusive to the open community.

Edited March 11, 2022 by BigShow.8460

[HellsPriest.6745]

1 minute ago, Lizandre.3514 said:

No

A game is a game. If I wanted an extension of life, as in real life, I would, tou know, "play" real life.

Maybe you are truly bad at real life and so you need to have a game where you can feel superior. I may or may not be "good" or "bad" at real life but I would certainly not mistake one for another.

You are a troubled person.

You clearly are being absurd. Anything you do in life, is essentially an extension of life lol. Post insults of people being good/bad at life provides nothing to the conversation. I'm not insulting people by saying they are whining, I'm stating what I see happening. They are probably really good people who just have an opposing view of me, which is why this post exists...but keep up with insults. 😉 kudos to you friend.

[Peterson.5172]

3 minutes ago, HellsPriest.6745 said:

I'm only gonna respond to the "gatekept" thing. I never gatekept anyone, I made one of the biggest gaming communities within this game. When Tequatl got revamped, I started TTS which helped THOUSANDS of players learn the mechanics and get their Tequatl achievements. I broke the kitten gate down and helped many get done what they couldn't figure out otherwise.

 

If you read back, most of the EOD content was made for CASUAL as most EOD things(jadebot, skiff, fishing, etc.) are all easily obtainable....ONE thing, is not...so I'd say the balance scale is leaning A LOT more on the casual side than the challenging side... I'm only asking that the challenging side not be left in the dust all together.

updated my comment, i didn't mean you specifically.

But sadly, for every one person trying to help, there's probably 1000 "gatekeeping" (intentionally or unintentionally), and this led to no more raids.

[HellsPriest.6745]

1 minute ago, BigShow.8460 said:

If the people who already got their turtles loved the challenge so much, why aren't they repeating it often?  You would think there would be progressively more successful DE maps if everyone kept going back for that "challenging content".  Op likes to take the stance that there isn't enough hard content and complaining that their "achievement" of winning somehow is lessened by the fact that other may get the reward more easily.  The only person it really matters to is you.  Why do you feel like you need something to flaunt to others who haven't been as fortunate to have gotten into the early "organized" groups.  It's not like DE is an event that rewards the individual for their contribution.  There's 60+ other people that you have to depend on being "Good" in order to win and that's asking a bit much out of open world content that gates something that was a huge selling point for the expansion.  Then you have to fight with the map cap if you do manage to get a "community" of good players together and become exclusive to the open community.

We are repeating it, trust me lol. We do it multiple times daily because we do love it. We also like to be rewarded for it as anyone would. I'm not the only one but it is okay if you think I am. To be honest, you don't have to be "good" to achieve it either...just work together and listen to instructions from groups who know how to do it. Organizing a group isn't a success either, you need someone who knows the mechanics of it which more and more people are learning and successfully running groups daily. The map cap thing is a struggle I agree, but as more commanders learn and do it succcessfully, that struggle will be less I promise.

[Katastroff.1045]

14 hours ago, HellsPriest.6745 said:

 

 

I think the people that smash Soo Won should get a special skin or doubleheaded turtle or something to signify we EARNED our Turtle mount instead of crying about it.

I'm totally with you on this.

[BigShow.8460]

4 minutes ago, HellsPriest.6745 said:

We are repeating it, trust me lol. We do it multiple times daily because we do love it. We also like to be rewarded for it as anyone would. I'm not the only one but it is okay if you think I am. To be honest, you don't have to be "good" to achieve it either...just work together and listen to instructions from groups who know how to do it. Organizing a group isn't a success either, you need someone who knows the mechanics of it which more and more people are learning and successfully running groups daily. The map cap thing is a struggle I agree, but as more commanders learn and do it succcessfully, that struggle will be less I promise.

I'll be more transparent.  I've been successful getting it and had 3m left over and I continue to return to fight it.  But there are notably less organized groups doing it than there were 3 or 4 days ago.  Yes, as more people learn what to do, it will become easier.  But keep in mind that this game is offered for anyone to play and I'm sure you would agree that not all players are on the same skill level.  Being in open world and it gating the turtle (which was advertised largely as a big feature that I'm sure many people looked forward to) seems like the unpopular thing to do at this difficulty.  Anet is going to go with what gets the most replayability out of the content.  I like the direction they're taking with teaching players more about their system with the breakbar, combo, and avoidance during the storyline.  I feel like this will lead to more skilled players overall, but we can't expect 100% turnaround and folks who continue to press 1 and die while scaling the event will always be present in an open world setting.  That just isn't good planning.

[Peterson.5172]

5 minutes ago, BigShow.8460 said:

 I like the direction they're taking with teaching players more about their system with the breakbar, combo, and avoidance during the storyline.  I feel like this will lead to more skilled players overall, but we can't expect 100% turnaround

this

on some level gw2 seems simple with just 10-15 skills, but at no point does the game tell you some of those skills actually hurt your damage output

and you have to pick out the right weapons using vague tooltips e.g. damage (5x): 2000. is that 2000 total or 2000x5?

then you have to pick out the right 5 utility skills out of 30+

then you mix in profession/tool belt skills, each come with another 5 skills

 

i used to play ff14 and tera years ago, they did very well in teaching you what skills to use and chain

ff14 made you use one skill for hrs before you can level and add a new one to the chain (boring as hell leveling but it made you learn your skill rotations)

tera outright bound your skill chain into spacebar, all you needed was remember the opening skills

[Saelgash.7014]

4 hours ago, Einsof.1457 said:

I don't see people complaining that single player RPGs need more MMO content. Why is it the other way around, I wonder? Why don't MMO players want more...MMO? Ya know...since they are playing *supposedly* an MMO?

They do want more . They just don't want to have anything with the toxic likes of the OP which you totally agree with 🙂 . 

 

 

 

[Zaxares.5419]

19 hours ago, HellsPriest.6745 said:

I don't know about all that haha. I just think a meta/boss that is requiring community based effort should stay community based effort. This nerf will make this a dead map outside of doing your storyline...I'm calling it now. 

I disagree with this assessment. Plenty of people still go back and do metas like AB, Pinata, Drizzlewood and Dragonstorm, despite most of those being extremely easy nowadays with a near-zero chance of failure. The reasons for each vary somewhat, but it has nothing to do with "challenge" or "difficulty". Often, these metas remain popular because they are quick, they are profitable (or have chances at very expensive drops), and have a very low risk of failure.

 

In fact, the fact that you think the difficulty is the only thing keeping players doing Dragon's End is extremely alarming, because if the posts on this forum are any indication, the only reason the majority of players are even doing this meta is because they want their Turtles/collections. That means that once the novelty and challenge wears off (for the people who enjoy the challenge), and once people have gotten their Turtles and achieves/collections (for the people who are only there to get something they want), people will stop doing it. Then there will be no more experienced veterans to teach the newbies and the entire meta will die a slow, neglected death. And that would be an immense shame because the DE meta IS one of the most incredible and complex metas ANet has put out to date.

 

I'm not saying that GW2 shouldn't have challenging content, but the challenge needs to be balanced carefully and multiple avenues to success provided so that the content doesn't become trapped in a death spiral where it's losing more players than it needs to remain sustainable. This is kind of like what happened to Serpent's Ire in PoF; it was more frustrating than fun to do, and without any decent rewards to keep players coming back, once people got their collections/achieves, they walked away and never came back. ANet eventually made it a lot easier (and Waystations also came in), but it was too little, too late. Let's NOT have that happen  again to Dragon's End, shall we?

[Hollowhisper.1093]

Oh boy, this is still going on?

Meanwhile, people start just logging off in Soo-Won mid fight because apparently they just can't be bothered anymore.

[Zok.4956]

On 3/11/2022 at 8:31 AM, HellsPriest.6745 said:

For Skyscale you need to EARN this, not just get it because you whined about it enough or want it.

I stopped reading your text after this sentence. So you want to brag about that you have the turtle as a "prestige" item and because of that you do not want it to become easier to get  for other players?

I have a Skyscale, Griffon and all other previous mounts (and had fun to get them), I have the turtle (and had not so much fun to get it because of several things like the strong RNG component of the meta map fight).  But I still think that Anet made some mistakes how they implemented and announced the whole thing and I think that it is a good change that other players can get it next week in other ways. It does not devalue "my" turtle.

And: The players that have the turtle now do not have it because of their skill. They only have it because of luck they were in the right group/squad and that they were in an instance, where they had luck with the RNG-component of the fight.

[Wintermute.5408]

I played HoT on release. When events were not nerfed yet, and were quite possible to fail.

They didn't fail to boss randomly becoming invincible. They didn't fail because "muh open world group composition".

No, they failed due to miscoordination. Once that coordination got nailed, event was cleared, and that was it. No LI groups, no subgroups with quickness and alac kitten. None of the so called "hard" events of old required that level of organization from random people gathered by the grace of megaserver.

Current DE is kitten that has no defense. Go play raids if you like it that much.

[Zok.4956]

On 3/11/2022 at 9:50 AM, HellsPriest.6745 said:

You will see when they do this how fast the map becomes a dead zone, no need to farm here for not good drop rates, no reason to fight the boss, no reason outside of your storyline. That sucks man.

If the only, main reason for playing the meta would be to get the turtle, than this meta will become a dead zone, regardless of other ways to get the turtle.