Permanently Immobilized

[Sugar Min.5834]

@"Almighty Dervisher.6720" said:https://imgur.com/a/3sxcF

My character was permanently immobilized, unable to chase down the person. It wouldn't have mattered if I condition cleansed, because he had immobilization on a short cooldown. It got up to something like 5/6 stacks within the couple of seconds we battled. So my character stood there taking it until he finally downed my character. Effortless.

Mmm.. You lost one lousy match and you complained about a profession being OP? Learn to play issues.

[Majirah.5089]

You are digging yourself into a hole. I'm wondering where you will come out at.

[OumaShu.4502]

Hey OP, Have you tried making a thief yet? Maybe you should buy HoT. I heard DH is great at killing thieves.

[Almighty Dervisher.6720]

@Majirah.5089 said:You are digging yourself into a hole. I'm wondering where you will come out at.

A generic post. How original. Perhaps you could contribute to the thread rather than trying to invoke a reaction all the while derailing the conversation?

[Panda.1967]

If you're having so much trouble dealing with Conditions, you really should listen to the advice people have tried to give you in this thread. Guardian's have a LOT of strong options for dealing with conditions, they are one of the best classes for countering conditions, up there with Rangers, Elementalists, and Necromancers.

Smite Conditions works well with ANY build, not "only meditation builds". There is no requirement to build for Meditations to make Smite Conditions good. You can also take the Valor minor trait Smiter's Boon to gain the benefit of Smite Conditions on your choice of healing skill.

From how you've been responding I highly doubt you even really want help to counter conditions. You seem to only want to argue for the sake of arguing and to seek nerfs to thieves rather than to improve your own play style. If you really do want help to improve, then please, post your build I'm sure many would be more than willing to help suggest some alterations that will suit your play style. However, no one can help you if you don't actually want the help.

[Almighty Dervisher.6720]

@Panda.1967 To counter conditions that go to this extent, you run trooper shout Guardian. Trooper shout Guardian has similar hp but that doesn't matter because it doesn't get the benefits of extra damage compared to Exuberance. The other issue is you only have 3/4 shouts, and those aren't going to matter when someone is permanently immobilizing you over and over. Smite condition does not counter someone consistently placing immobilization on you. Stand your ground is great but it's unlikely it even works on Immobilizations. Something like purging flames might work, but it's an area skill and those are just about useless in pvp/1v1. Contemplation isn't a shout either, and wouldn't help much. In terms of shouts, you don't have anything that really addresses immobilization of that level and trooper isn't going to save you from it. Could do reflection but that doesn't solve actually getting to that person and doing damage, which is something guardian lacks completely.

[ScorpiusVonG.2901]

So to me it seems you're not even looking for any tips,help or constructive criticism your just looking to vent your own frustrations.One question..how can you so adamantly dismiss everyone and everything about the game when you haven't even unlocked the full potential of the game by actually purchasing it or even creating other toons to experiment with to go up against your "extremely unbalanced" assumption?

[Panda.1967]

So you're running a "high damage" bunker build with a large HP pool, and are too focused on getting every extra point of damage that you can to accept even a less than 1% DPS loss for some better condition control. Yea, this is absolutely a learn to play issue.

You got defeated by a condition build, yes it was a thief, yes they can chain immobilize you. But guess what. They will run out of initiative quickly if you actually take the effort to counter their actions and use cleanses. You're a guardian, you have plenty of options to cleanse conditions, many of which are PASSIVE and work on ANY BUILD. Take a look at your specs, I guarantee you'll see at least one alternative trait that adds some extra condition cleanse in one of your trait lines. If you have even 1 utility skill that you rarely ever use, drop it and take Smite Conditions, you will thank us in the end.

[RoseofGilead.8907]

@Almighty Dervisher.6720 said:True, this is a bit of a bad system. Sometimes things like Karka don't load quickly, or Tequatl's wave is invisible.

Those are certainly common problems, including for me. It's super fun when enemy AOE fields don't show up right until it's too late, too.

[Arimas.3492]

Classic learn to play issue, everyone move along.

/Thread

[Fatemaster.3590]

Shouldn't anyone that runs Runes of Infiltration get like a 4 second stealth when health is low?

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

Did you try Wall of Reflection?

[Panda.1967]

Ok again, try the trait Smiter's Boon. You'll gain the benefit of Smite Conditions when you use Shelter. That's 2 conditions cleansed every time you use your heal. Alternatively you can go for the less potent Strength of the Fallen and gain condi removal every 10sec as if you had Signet of Resolve without losing Shelter.

Personally on my guardian I also run Consecrations, conditions mean very little to me, and I'm a CORE guardian, I don't like Dragonhunter. Don't be afraid to drop Purging Flames when needed, and that reduced condition duration will break you out of those immobilizes quicker. You can also Blast or Whirl finish you're light fields for some additional condi cleanse between immobilizes. Plus you've always got Virtue of Resolve to cleanse conditions. A condition thief is very easy to counter as a guardian. It's easy to run them out of initiative with all your condition cleanse options. When they run out you can finish them off quickly, besides if you use all the tools at your disposal they will be suffering quite a bit of damage as retribution for stacking conditions on you.

[Almighty Dervisher.6720]

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

Did you try Wall of Reflection?

No, however since i'm specializing in Consecrations it has been something i've been considering lately. Is it of much use though? All it'd do is add a layer of defense, which doesn't do much. Guardians without HoT/PoF don't exactly have good range other than maybe one weapon which is an auto attack.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

@Almighty Dervisher.6720 said:@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

Did you try Wall of Reflection?

No, however since i'm specializing in Consecrations it has been something i've been considering lately. Is it of much use though? All it'd do is add a layer of defense, which doesn't do much. Guardians without HoT/PoF don't exactly have good range other than maybe one weapon which is an auto attack.

That immobilize you are having issues with comes from a projectile. Wall of Reflection sends that back at the caster. How helpful do you think that will be?

[Almighty Dervisher.6720]

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@Almighty Dervisher.6720 said:@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

Did you try Wall of Reflection?

No, however since i'm specializing in Consecrations it has been something i've been considering lately. Is it of much use though? All it'd do is add a layer of defense, which doesn't do much. Guardians without HoT/PoF don't exactly have good range other than maybe one weapon which is an auto attack.

That immobilize you are having issues with comes from a projectile. Wall of Reflection sends that back at the caster. How helpful do you think that will be?

Yeah I guess it might help overall, though more than likely a skilled player just won't attack until that ability is down.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

You would be correct. Meanwhile, that's time that you can be using to attack the Thief.

[Curennos.9307]

Condi cleanse and dodge almost at the same time (dodge right after the condi cleanse so you can evade any potential incoming immobs). Gap close as fast as you can/right after you finish your dodge, or if you can see it wait out the enemy thief's dodge and then gapclose/whatever. From here, assuming you've done things fast enough, the thief is now on the defensive and low-ish on initiative. Proceed to smash his face in

[Panda.1967]

If your building for Consecrations, drop Sanctuary when a pistol thief starts using immobilize, you'll block their projectiles and keep them at range for 6+sec. You can also if you use shield, use Shield 5 to get an additional 4 seconds of projectile and area denial. You can very easily make fighting you a living nightmare for a thief.

[Almighty Dervisher.6720]

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:You would be correct. Meanwhile, that's time that you can be using to attack the Thief.

I heavily underestimated wall of reflection. It's like night and day against ranged players. I thought it just absorbed the projectiles, not reflect. I must've mixed it up with sanctuary. Thank you for the suggestion.

[Almighty Dervisher.6720]

@Panda.1967 said:If your building for Consecrations, drop Sanctuary when a pistol thief starts using immobilize, you'll block their projectiles and keep them at range for 6+sec. You can also if you use shield, use Shield 5 to get an additional 4 seconds of projectile and area denial. You can very easily make fighting you a living nightmare for a thief.

My issue with Sanctuary is even with consecration specialization, it only lasts 8 seconds and has a 60 second cooldown. That's a long time for a temporary shield and a pinch of healing. Would it be an ability that could replace Hallowed Ground/Purging flames in some situations? I run retaliation crit, relying on the opponent burning for extra damage while my character is tanky. Purging also helps with condition removal and such, so I guess between the two Hallowed Ground would be the one i'd consider replacing it with. A situational choice at best I think. The retaliation on Hallowed Ground is quite good as well.

[Panda.1967]

@Almighty Dervisher.6720 said:

@Panda.1967 said:If your building for Consecrations, drop Sanctuary when a pistol thief starts using immobilize, you'll block their projectiles and keep them at range for 6+sec. You can also if you use shield, use Shield 5 to get an additional 4 seconds of projectile and area denial. You can very easily make fighting you a living nightmare for a thief.

My issue with Sanctuary is even with consecration specialization, it only lasts 8 seconds and has a 60 second cooldown. That's a long time for a temporary shield and a pinch of healing. Would it be an ability that could replace Hallowed Ground/Purging flames in some situations? I run retaliation crit, relying on the opponent burning for extra damage while my character is tanky. Purging also helps with condition removal and such, so I guess between the two Hallowed Ground would be the one i'd consider replacing it with. A situational choice at best I think. The retaliation on Hallowed Ground is quite good as well.

It servers the same purpose as Wall of Reflection. deny your opponent projectile attacks, but unlike wall of reflection it's got a 360° field of protection and denies them from reaching you in melee as well. It's not really interchangeable with Purging Flames or Hallowed Ground, it's more an alternative to Wall of Reflection. As you correctly mentioned in a previous post though, it's not as effective as Wall of Reflection due to it absorbing projectiles rather than reflecting them. It's benefit comes more from it's 360° coverage and area denial.

Also, I'd like to point out, if you're running Retaliation/Crit, you might find yourself getting more mileage out of Smite Conditions than Purging Flames for condi removal. It has a shorter CD, and deals some pretty reliable AoE damage. Plus you can trait it to do some decent self healing and provide Fury for more crit in the process.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

Whenever I find myself losing horribly in PvP or WvW, my first assumption is that I'm doing something wrong. Or that the other player is a lot better than I. (Or both.)

For example, not that long ago, a friend & I went 2v1 against the same Warrior several times in a row. He owned us, albeit more slowly during the last encounter. Accordingly I asked in the Warrior forum: did anyone catch the license of the truck that hit us? And can they offer any advice to help counter? I got several helpful responses (and not a single negative one). They went into detail about what sort of trait/skills, what sort of tells I should look for, and how to mask my own tells and counter (both with skills and tactics). I expect I'd still lose, but that's because the guy really knew how to make his build sing.

Therefore, I'd recommend that the OP start over with a new thread. Ask the "experts" what they think went on and listen to the responses. Ask for suggestions about how to counter it. Then try it out. (Or ideally, run the build yourself for a bit to see how it works.)

[Almighty Dervisher.6720]

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:Whenever I find myself losing horribly in PvP or WvW, my first assumption is that I'm doing something wrong. Or that the other player is a lot better than I. (Or both.)

For example, not that long ago, a friend & I went 2v1 against the same Warrior several times in a row. He owned us, albeit more slowly during the last encounter. Accordingly I asked in the Warrior forum: did anyone catch the license of the truck that hit us? And can they offer any advice to help counter? I got several helpful responses (and not a single negative one). They went into detail about what sort of trait/skills, what sort of tells I should look for, and how to mask my own tells and counter (both with skills and tactics). I expect I'd still lose, but that's because the guy really knew how to make his build sing.

Therefore, I'd recommend that the OP start over with a new thread. Ask the "experts" what they think went on and listen to the responses. Ask for suggestions about how to counter it. Then try it out. (Or ideally, run the build yourself for a bit to see how it works.)

I used to have the optimism that humanity would help someone if they asked, but that's been proven wrong many times before. There's a reason I don't bother asking for help, it's just the typical: "git gud" or common advice that is completely useless. Basically a majority of threads asking for advice/help are ignored in many communities.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@Almighty Dervisher.6720 said:

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:Whenever I find myself losing horribly in PvP or WvW, my first assumption is that I'm doing something wrong. Or that the other player is a lot better than I. (Or both.)

For example, not that long ago, a friend & I went 2v1 against the same Warrior several times in a row. He owned us, albeit more slowly during the last encounter. Accordingly I asked in the Warrior forum: did anyone catch the license of the truck that hit us? And can they offer any advice to help counter? I got several helpful responses (and not a single negative one). They went into detail about what sort of trait/skills, what sort of tells I should look for, and how to mask my own tells and counter (both with skills and tactics). I expect I'd still lose, but that's because the guy really knew how to make his build sing.

Therefore, I'd recommend that the OP start over with a new thread. Ask the "experts" what they think went on and listen to the responses. Ask for suggestions about how to counter it. Then try it out. (Or ideally, run the build yourself for a bit to see how it works.)

I used to have the optimism that humanity would help someone if they asked, but that's been proven wrong many times before. There's a reason I don't bother asking for help, it's just the typical: "git gud" or common advice that is completely useless. Basically a majority of threads asking for advice/help are ignored in many communities.

I've never once gotten a negative response when I've asked a sincere question (rather than a loaded one).

I'm also having trouble understanding your goal now. How can you expect ANet to take your suggestions seriously without taking into account the advice of experts from both your main profession and your opponent's prof? Doesn't balancing the game require ANet to look at things from the viewpoint of each and every profession? Don't they need to consider a variety of builds and techniques?

One of the reasons that [qt] is held in such esteem is that they don't just theorize the best build and then measure it's efficiency. They literally try all sorts of variations (including some that might miss out on the theory, but "feel right"). They listen to others critique their builds and techniques. They never assume that they have all the answers (although, as it turns out, they often do because their research is very thorough).

Thus, if your goal is to change the balance (rather than just rant about an unpleasant encounter), I still strongly recommend that you ask simply what other people think happened and what you could do to counter it. And then try it out.