A suggestion to fix Virtuoso's heal skill "Twinblade restortation"

[crazyhusky.2985]

I think The heal skill "Twinblade restortation" kinda awkward and more complex than it needs to be, and sometimes you get this "No target" when trying to use it.

For the most part your heal skill is suppose to be a defensive skill. So I don't know why they choose the offensive route for what should be a defensive skill.

 

I want to them to fix Virt's heal skill, I have a sugguestion

 "Heal yourself, while converting Five conditions into stocked blades. You gain aegis and one additional random boon if you convert 3 or more conditions. If you reach the max amount of blades you will gain aegis and one additional random boon per extra blade that should be stocked."

 

So the Skill cures conditions giving blades per condition clearing it, Basically converting conditions into blades, This means you don't have to target anything to heal and it also helps with Blade generation so now you can use this heal skill in a pinch to get boons and blades.

Furthermore Many mesmar builds do struggle to fit a condition cleanse on it, so having the healing skill do it, would help Virtuoso out, helping it in gaining some stain because all it has is offense right now.

But I do think the name would have be changed from Twinblade restortation to Multi-blade restortation

What do you think?

Edited March 15, 2022 by crazyhusky.2985
typos

[OriOri.8724]

5 condi cleanse is really really really strong for 1 skill to do, especially since its only a 20s CD. Other than that, your idea is interesting, though virtuoso currently has more blade generation than it can handle, so I don't think it needs any more.

 

The #1 thing that must be fixed though is the skill needs to be usable without a target. If that change is made, then the skill would be more or less fine as it is. Though I wouldn't mind seeing 1 condi cleanse be baseline on it, and have it cleanse a second condition if the blade hits something.

[Yoci.2481]

20s cd? I thought it was 30?

[phokus.8934]

3 minutes ago, Yoci.2481 said:

20s cd? I thought it was 30?

20s in pve, 30s in pvp/wvw.

[Yoci.2481]

Ah ok that explains it.

[crazyhusky.2985]

12 hours ago, OriOri.8724 said:

5 condi cleanse is really really really strong for 1 skill to do, especially since its only a 20s CD. Other than that, your idea is interesting, though virtuoso currently has more blade generation than it can handle, so I don't think it needs any more.

 

The #1 thing that must be fixed though is the skill needs to be usable without a target. If that change is made, then the skill would be more or less fine as it is. Though I wouldn't mind seeing 1 condi cleanse be baseline on it, and have it cleanse a second condition if the blade hits something.

There are many heal skills in the game that also cure conditions and some of them with low Cooldowns.

Base Elementalist has a healing skill that cures 8 conditions and its 18CD and can be lowered through a trait to 14 second CD with boons on top. Also it's Elite Catalyst, has a 25 CD healing skill that cures 5 conditions by default and if the skill is used in the water sphere the CD goes down to 20 seconds.

Base line Rev heal skill that cleanses 5 conditions in Dwarf stance is 30 secs Cd not 20 cd.

Base Warrior's Mending is the same as Base line Rev heal skill in that cleanses 5 conditions but it only has 15 second cooldown. with Spellbreaker's healing clearing 7 conditions on 25s cooldown.

Soulbeast has one that not only cleanses conditions, but pulses it to allies when traited and is 25 cooldown.

I think i missing one somewhere...

 

So Mesmar's getting a 5 condition cleanse healing skill with a 20 second cooldown. Isn't too bad in my view when other classes already have one and some with lower Cooldowns and grant boons and effects on top of that. Virtuoso doesn't get access to Alcarity unlike Chronomancer and Mirage so the Cooldown doesn't need to be higher. Though it if has boons, then 25 seconds Cooldown seems about right for the skill, though 30 cooldown would be too long.

I do think the skill only cleaning 1 or 2 condition is not enough, considering how easy it is to get conditions on you these days, also with many offensive mesmar build not having any good way of dealing with conditions or being unable to fit something in that does on to it without sacrificing damage, so having a way to clear them would be nice. The reason for 5 is because you have a max of 5 blades, but I could see it only curing 3 conditions with you getting 3 blades and boon instead, though I feel like 5 would be a better fit.

If they keep it as it is, I hope they can at least up the condition cleanse to 3 upon use, for it be guarantee cleanse, and upon hitting a foe it clears a 4th one.

Also note the CD is only 20 seconds in PvE so its Ok there, it is 30 seconds in wvw/pvp.

Edited March 16, 2022 by crazyhusky.2985
cds added

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

Your suggestion is too strong

[Veprovina.4876]

3 hours ago, agrippastrilemma.8741 said:

Your suggestion is too strong

Everyone else has stronger condi clense, what are you talking about?

[Tseison.4659]

To be honest, it’s better to just remove the attack function so it’s just a regular heal skill and instead, provide everything that’s in the description with the addition of stocking one blade. 🤷‍♂️

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

2 hours ago, Tseison.4659 said:

To be honest, it’s better to just remove the attack function so it’s just a regular heal skill and instead, provide everything that’s in the description with the addition of stocking one blade. 🤷‍♂️

Yeah this is a decent idea.

Although I don't mind the idea of a heal that attacks but you really need to get rewarded for it quite heavily or it will just suck because you usually want to heal in safety (like behind cover) anyway. Maybe if it was 1/2 cast time so it would be less risky.

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

4 hours ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

Everyone else has stronger condi clense, what are you talking about?

It would render all the other heals irrelevant. Something like "Cleanse a condition per blade you currently have" would probably be balanced.

[Veprovina.4876]

2 minutes ago, agrippastrilemma.8741 said:

It would render all the other heals irrelevant. Something like "Cleanse a condition per blade you currently have" would probably be balanced.

They already are irrelevant because they don't interact with the class mechanic the way blade heal does. Adding condi to blade conversion would not change that.

 

Berserker's heal makes all other warrior heals irrelevant too because its heal refills their adrenaline bar, making all other pretty useless.

 

But let's hope anet fixes the glaring problems with Virtuoso first, then see how much upgrade the heal skill needs. The heal skill isn't really the major thing that's wrong with Virtuoso, it first needs to go back to the drawing board and then go from there.

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

5 minutes ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

They already are irrelevant because they don't interact with the class mechanic the way blade heal does. Adding condi to blade conversion would not change that.

 

Berserker's heal makes all other warrior heals irrelevant too because its heal refills their adrenaline bar, making all other pretty useless.

 

But let's hope anet fixes the glaring problems with Virtuoso first, then see how much upgrade the heal skill needs. The heal skill isn't really the major thing that's wrong with Virtuoso, it first needs to go back to the drawing board and then go from there.

Ether Feast interacts amazingly with Virtuoso, it is really strong due to the 5 blade bonus heal

And yes I agree with that last part. For the heal it should ideally be an alternative, but not a strictly superior option, to Ether Feast. For example it could have a fast cast but less healing, or it could cleanse some conditions but less healing etc.

Edited March 16, 2022 by agrippastrilemma.8741

[vanflyheight.6832]

I also mentioned this during beta 4 where having a heal skill that has to face target when all the other specs dont have to deal with this is pure hogwash. Virtuoso already has 2 ways of generating blades, 1 traited in combat, the other outside of combat. that's more than enough blade gen already. So for this heal skill to be reworked it should be what is prescribed below  

Utilities: Twin Blade Restoration- This skill could go like this "remove 1 condition per active blade, gain regen + random boon" without it having to use a blade while facing the target. Some of the random boons that could be substituted for aegis is either resolution or protection, less aegis is better geared toward this sort of thing then aegis should be kept. 

 

[Salt Mode.3780]

People r also forgetting what a horrible skill this is if you are in stealth, you are forced to attacked your opponent which reveals you because you decided to heal in stealth....god what were they thinking when they came up with a heal like that...oh wait they werent.

[Veprovina.4876]

25 minutes ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

People r also forgetting what a horrible skill this is if you are in stealth, you are forced to attacked your opponent which reveals you because you decided to heal in stealth....god what were they thinking when they came up with a heal like that...oh wait they werent.

That's a good point that often gets overlooked!

Yes, this is a very glaring flaw with the design. 

The heal doesn't offer anything worth revealing yourself over, and yet, you need to heal. So you end up getting screwed either way. Stay in stealth a bit longer, reposition, but leave stealth as damaged as you were, or heal and reveal yourself... 

 

[crazyhusky.2985]

On 3/16/2022 at 9:36 PM, Salt Mode.3780 said:

People r also forgetting what a horrible skill this is if you are in stealth, you are forced to attacked your opponent which reveals you because you decided to heal in stealth....god what were they thinking when they came up with a heal like that...oh wait they werent.

That's why they need to get rid of the attacking part of the move and make it more defensive/Ultilty based instead.

It's why I suggested they change to give a way to cure more conditions and get more blades and or boon yourself.

This way you don't break stealth and can get useful boons to attack.

Virtuoso is an all out attacking Elite spec, So rather than having the healing skill do an attack, I think the heal skill should be more of a tool for keeping up the offensive pressure by cure conditions, giving you blades and boons.

Edited March 22, 2022 by crazyhusky.2985
typo

[mungozen.2379]

Perhaps I am missing something but why is the common theme 'I can't use it in Stealth'?

Are there a lack of good heals to be using in Stealth?

[Salt Mode.3780]

52 minutes ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

Perhaps I am missing something but why is the common theme 'I can't use it in Stealth'?

Are there a lack of good heals to be using in Stealth?

When your shatters are all cast and your heals are at a 1 sec cast, its always safer to heal in stealth. 1 sec is a lot of time for people to interrupt.

[mungozen.2379]

9 minutes ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

When your shatters are all cast and your heals are at a 1 sec cast, its always safer to heal in stealth. 1 sec is a lot of time for people to interrupt.

That makes sense, but is Twin Blade Restoration considered better than other heals to use in Virtuoso builds where you use stealth? 

Like, if you ignore the breaking stealth part of it, is it actually a better healing choice over the other available heals?  On paper, Ether Feast just looks like the best heal for this scenario.  Mostly due to the Target requirements and On Hit effects being so situational and easy to break for Twin Blade.

I am asking from a place of education, not trolling.  I don't PvP and rarely take my Mes to WvW.

Edited March 22, 2022 by Mungo Zen.9364

[Salt Mode.3780]

7 minutes ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

That makes sense, but is Twin Blade Restoration considered better than other heals to use in Virtuoso builds where you use stealth? 

Like, if you ignore the breaking stealth part of it, is it actually a better healing choice over the other available heals?  On paper, Ether Feast just looks like the best heal for this scenario.  Mostly due to the Target requirements and On Hit effects being so situational and easy to break for Twin Blade.

I am asking from a place of education, not trolling.  I don't PvP and rarely take my Mes to WvW.

I mean a 20 sec heal that cleanses a condi + gives aegis is tech the best, considering our other heals are lackluster, I mean yes you can use Etherfeast for a huge heal but the problem is it only does healing and nothing else.

If Virtuoso heal did not do dmg and didnt require you to face your target to use, it would be the best heal for Virtuoso competing with Healing Signet.

[viquing.8254]

It's not tied to virtuoso but in general, mesmer lack condi cleanse when in power.

Particulary when it come to weakness/blind/movement conditions. Compared to some other direct damage classes who do this in normal cycle.

That's why it way harder to land a proper direct damage burst compared to condi who doesn't suffer weakness application  in this meta.

Edited March 24, 2022 by viquing.8254

[crazyhusky.2985]

On 3/24/2022 at 5:07 PM, viquing.8254 said:

It's not tied to virtuoso but in general, mesmer lack condi cleanse when in power.

Particulary when it come to weakness/blind/movement conditions. Compared to some other direct damage classes who do this in normal cycle.

That's why it way harder to land a proper direct damage burst compared to condi who doesn't suffer weakness application  in this meta.

I 100% agree, Condi cleanse has always been an issue for power variants of mesmar, Because NEED all your Utilies for damage.

And when every stray hit in the game can give you 1 or 2 conditions, only ever being able to cleanse 1 condition off you isn't good.

It's why I suggested putting a proper condition cleanse on Virtuoso's heal skill, not just cure 1 condition. Being able to cleanse 3 conditions would be ok, but I being able to cleanse 5 conditions would be a lot better, Many classes have a heal skill that also cleanses conditions and some tie into their class mechanic. I don't think Mesmar has one.