Unhindered combattant and cripple

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@Turk.5460 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@ZhouX.8742 said:After seeing sindrener and a few other top thieves playing with it, it didn't change much , but I think it depends if you're good or not. Not justifying the nerf, but just saying it hasn't shifted playstyles massively if you weren't already spammy with it.

It hasn't shifted the playstyle of the meta d/p build that is wideley used, no. But it absolutely changed the way we Acro users have to play.

You mean with the combination of both acro and daredevil?

What is the title of this thread?

Then don't bring acro into this then lol, it has nothing to do with UC but you say "us acro users will have to play different" not sure why people even run acro with daredevil, let alone with dash.

I'm sorry that you are not experienced enough to see the value of alternative builds outside of metabattle.com

You're right sorry. How much more endurance do you want lol.

[Turk.5460]

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@ZhouX.8742 said:After seeing sindrener and a few other top thieves playing with it, it didn't change much , but I think it depends if you're good or not. Not justifying the nerf, but just saying it hasn't shifted playstyles massively if you weren't already spammy with it.

It hasn't shifted the playstyle of the meta d/p build that is wideley used, no. But it absolutely changed the way we Acro users have to play.

You mean with the combination of both acro and daredevil?

What is the title of this thread?

Then don't bring acro into this then lol, it has nothing to do with UC but you say "us acro users will have to play different" not sure why people even run acro with daredevil, let alone with dash.

I'm sorry that you are not experienced enough to see the value of alternative builds outside of metabattle.com

You're right sorry. How much more endurance do you want lol.

Enough to continuously reap the benefits of Upper Hand and Swindler's Equilibrium to regain initiative and continue to pressure with my unblockable boonsteals, denying things like protection that would hinder my offensive, while instead gaining it to further increase my survivability. If you'd like more help with Thief, please feel free to send me private messages.

[Skada.1362]

@ZhouX.8742 said:After seeing sindrener and a few other top thieves playing with it, it didn't change much , but I think it depends if you're good or not. Not justifying the nerf, but just saying it hasn't shifted playstyles massively if you weren't already spammy with it.

Sindrener kept saying the changes are irrelevant, which may be true in a +1 PVP scenario. But WvW roaming is a whole other thing. As a solo roamer playing DP meta but also acro/tr/DD s/d I suffer hard from these nerfs. These nerfs took out alot of the fun in GW2 for me.

[Choppy.4183]

@Skada.1362 said:

@ZhouX.8742 said:After seeing sindrener and a few other top thieves playing with it, it didn't change much , but I think it depends if you're good or not. Not justifying the nerf, but just saying it hasn't shifted playstyles massively if you weren't already spammy with it.

Sindrener kept saying the changes are irrelevant, which may be true in a +1 PVP scenario. But WvW roaming is a whole other thing. As a solo roamer playing DP meta but also acro/tr/DD s/d I suffer hard from these nerfs. These nerfs took out alot of the fun in GW2 for me.

You're impacted more, but that's because the relatively wide open nature makes the dd mobility advantage far greater when roaming in wvw than playing pvp. Meaning, you're suffering a lost advantage that your pvp counterpart didn't really have.

DD mobility and defense potential really has supported a lower risk/reward style of roaming play than is reasonable, and (as has sometimes been the case with other classes) has allowed way too much cover for sloppy play.

The change could be good, though I'd defer to level headed people with greater knowledge of the class to say whether it was the right way to go.

[Turk.5460]

@Choppy.4183 said:

@Skada.1362 said:

@ZhouX.8742 said:After seeing sindrener and a few other top thieves playing with it, it didn't change much , but I think it depends if you're good or not. Not justifying the nerf, but just saying it hasn't shifted playstyles massively if you weren't already spammy with it.

Sindrener kept saying the changes are irrelevant, which may be true in a +1 PVP scenario. But WvW roaming is a whole other thing. As a solo roamer playing DP meta but also acro/tr/DD s/d I suffer hard from these nerfs. These nerfs took out alot of the fun in GW2 for me.

You're impacted more, but that's because the relatively wide open nature makes the dd mobility advantage far greater when roaming in wvw than playing pvp. Meaning, you're suffering a lost advantage that your pvp counterpart didn't really have.

DD mobility and defense potential really has supported a lower risk/reward style of roaming play than is reasonable, and (as has sometimes been the case with other classes) has allowed way too much cover for sloppy play.

The change could be good, though I'd defer to level headed people with greater knowledge of the class to say whether it was the right way to go.

Do not lump risk/reward of escape in the same boat as risk/reward of actual combat. The people who cry low risk/reward are simply irritated that they cannot finish the thief that they already defeated in combat. Your opponent ran away, big deal, take solace in the fact that you won the fight. Compare the risk/reward of a Thief's combat potential vs. the risk/reward of ...oh I don't know, lets say a Warrior's combat potential. Thief's risk doesn't look so low anymore, does it?

[Skada.1362]

@Choppy.4183 said:

@Skada.1362 said:

@ZhouX.8742 said:After seeing sindrener and a few other top thieves playing with it, it didn't change much , but I think it depends if you're good or not. Not justifying the nerf, but just saying it hasn't shifted playstyles massively if you weren't already spammy with it.

Sindrener kept saying the changes are irrelevant, which may be true in a +1 PVP scenario. But WvW roaming is a whole other thing. As a solo roamer playing DP meta but also acro/tr/DD s/d I suffer hard from these nerfs. These nerfs took out alot of the fun in GW2 for me.

You're impacted more, but that's because the relatively wide open nature makes the dd mobility advantage far greater when roaming in wvw than playing pvp. Meaning, you're suffering a lost advantage that your pvp counterpart didn't really have.

DD mobility and defense potential really has supported a lower risk/reward style of roaming play than is reasonable, and (as has sometimes been the case with other classes) has allowed way too much cover for sloppy play.

The change could be good, though I'd defer to level headed people with greater knowledge of the class to say whether it was the right way to go.

This change is not good, at all. Anet went out of their way to create a new debuff never seen in game before and simply slap it on there out of the blue. Us WvW thieves were recently nerfed only 6~ weeks ago which resulted in us having Endurance Thief, Channeled Vigor and Signet of Agility toned down, which was fair. I agree with those nerfs. People who are salty about thieves think it's great, however this nerf affects us who play other builds than the d/p meta. A fair nerf would be something along the line of an ICD of 3-5 seconds of the soft CC cleansing upon dodging.

[Choppy.4183]

@Turk.5460 said:

@Choppy.4183 said:

@Skada.1362 said:

@ZhouX.8742 said:After seeing sindrener and a few other top thieves playing with it, it didn't change much , but I think it depends if you're good or not. Not justifying the nerf, but just saying it hasn't shifted playstyles massively if you weren't already spammy with it.

Sindrener kept saying the changes are irrelevant, which may be true in a +1 PVP scenario. But WvW roaming is a whole other thing. As a solo roamer playing DP meta but also acro/tr/DD s/d I suffer hard from these nerfs. These nerfs took out alot of the fun in GW2 for me.

You're impacted more, but that's because the relatively wide open nature makes the dd mobility advantage far greater when roaming in wvw than playing pvp. Meaning, you're suffering a lost advantage that your pvp counterpart didn't really have.

DD mobility and defense potential really has supported a lower risk/reward style of roaming play than is reasonable, and (as has sometimes been the case with other classes) has allowed way too much cover for sloppy play.

The change could be good, though I'd defer to level headed people with greater knowledge of the class to say whether it was the right way to go.

Do not lump risk/reward of

escape

in the same boat as risk/reward of

actual combat.

The people who cry low risk/reward are simply irritated that they cannot

finish

the thief that they

already defeated

in combat. Your opponent ran away, big deal, take solace in the fact that you won the fight. Compare the risk/reward of a Thief's combat potential vs. the risk/reward of ...oh I don't know, lets say a Warrior's combat potential. Thief's risk doesn't look so low anymore, does it?

I'm not lumping them together. Even in combat, the potential mobility and defense of the dd has been absurd in a roaming context, but not so in a pvp context with more limited room to fight and a ticking clock that matters.

If you're getting chewed up by a warrior while roaming on a hyper mobile dd, then the warrior is playing better than you.

@Skada.1362Yeah, I get that. Could well be that your proposal would have been better than what they did.

[Turk.5460]

@Choppy.4183 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Choppy.4183 said:

@Skada.1362 said:

@ZhouX.8742 said:After seeing sindrener and a few other top thieves playing with it, it didn't change much , but I think it depends if you're good or not. Not justifying the nerf, but just saying it hasn't shifted playstyles massively if you weren't already spammy with it.

Sindrener kept saying the changes are irrelevant, which may be true in a +1 PVP scenario. But WvW roaming is a whole other thing. As a solo roamer playing DP meta but also acro/tr/DD s/d I suffer hard from these nerfs. These nerfs took out alot of the fun in GW2 for me.

You're impacted more, but that's because the relatively wide open nature makes the dd mobility advantage far greater when roaming in wvw than playing pvp. Meaning, you're suffering a lost advantage that your pvp counterpart didn't really have.

DD mobility and defense potential really has supported a lower risk/reward style of roaming play than is reasonable, and (as has sometimes been the case with other classes) has allowed way too much cover for sloppy play.

The change could be good, though I'd defer to level headed people with greater knowledge of the class to say whether it was the right way to go.

Do not lump risk/reward of

escape

in the same boat as risk/reward of

actual combat.

The people who cry low risk/reward are simply irritated that they cannot

finish

the thief that they

already defeated

in combat. Your opponent ran away, big deal, take solace in the fact that you won the fight. Compare the risk/reward of a Thief's combat potential vs. the risk/reward of ...oh I don't know, lets say a Warrior's combat potential. Thief's risk doesn't look so low anymore, does it?If you're getting chewed up by a warrior while roaming on a hyper mobile dd, then the warrior is playing better than you.

Yes and if a hyper defensive Warrior is getting chewed up by a DD, the DD is playing better than him. You have no point here.

[Spurnshadow.3678]

Whatever did all you thieves do before HoT came? I guess there were none. Please.

[Turk.5460]

@Spurnshadow.3678 said:Whatever did all you thieves do before HoT came? I guess there were none. Please.

Before HoT conditions like cripple, immob, and chill weren't vomited from all orifices of every profession and build

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

@Titan.3472 said:Here is the issue : how making my own "grandmaster" trait buffing my ennemy cripple effect good for the played class in the long term, making a no go choice trait ? Being cripple while using this trait get my endurance regen reduced for 100% during 4seconds. The idea was not so bad but the implementation was poorly executed. The right choice would have been to buff cripple condition effect giving the attribute to negate endurance regeneration by 100% during the time of the cripple effect. Therefore, every skills with condition cripple would reduce endurance regen by 100% in its own attribute whatever target is and whoever cast it. Please change this and give us back unhindered combattant original trait and buff EVERYONE cripple by adding an attribute of endurance regeneration debuff of 100% by the duration of the cripple on the affected target. This is my constructive analysis. TY Anet.

Weakness already applies reduced endurance regen, so on top of that, this nerf to Dash is an overkill. 3/4 of a second is already long, let alone 4 seconds. Dash was never an issue before PoF. In fact, the other GM traits need a slight buff (e.g. Lotus applies Resistance and Bound applies Protection). But I digress. Thieves are used to the shitty non-sensical updates anyway.

[bq pd.2148]

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@Titan.3472 said:Here is the issue : how making my own "grandmaster" trait buffing my ennemy cripple effect good for the played class in the long term, making a no go choice trait ? Being cripple while using this trait get my endurance regen reduced for 100% during 4seconds. The idea was not so bad but the implementation was poorly executed. The right choice would have been to buff cripple condition effect giving the attribute to negate endurance regeneration by 100% during the time of the cripple effect. Therefore, every skills with condition cripple would reduce endurance regen by 100% in its own attribute whatever target is and whoever cast it. Please change this and give us back unhindered combattant original trait and buff EVERYONE cripple by adding an attribute of endurance regeneration debuff of 100% by the duration of the cripple on the affected target. This is my constructive analysis. TY Anet.

Weakness already applies reduced endurance regen, so on top of that, this nerf to Dash is an overkill. 3/4 of a second is already long, let alone 4 seconds. Dash was never an issue before PoF. In fact, the other GM traits need a slight buff (e.g. Lotus applies Resistance and Bound applies Protection). But I digress. Thieves are used to the kitten non-sensical updates anyway.

so would you like weakness debuff instead ?

[Choppy.4183]

@Turk.5460 said:

@Choppy.4183 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Choppy.4183 said:

@Skada.1362 said:

@ZhouX.8742 said:After seeing sindrener and a few other top thieves playing with it, it didn't change much , but I think it depends if you're good or not. Not justifying the nerf, but just saying it hasn't shifted playstyles massively if you weren't already spammy with it.

Sindrener kept saying the changes are irrelevant, which may be true in a +1 PVP scenario. But WvW roaming is a whole other thing. As a solo roamer playing DP meta but also acro/tr/DD s/d I suffer hard from these nerfs. These nerfs took out alot of the fun in GW2 for me.

You're impacted more, but that's because the relatively wide open nature makes the dd mobility advantage far greater when roaming in wvw than playing pvp. Meaning, you're suffering a lost advantage that your pvp counterpart didn't really have.

DD mobility and defense potential really has supported a lower risk/reward style of roaming play than is reasonable, and (as has sometimes been the case with other classes) has allowed way too much cover for sloppy play.

The change could be good, though I'd defer to level headed people with greater knowledge of the class to say whether it was the right way to go.

Do not lump risk/reward of

escape

in the same boat as risk/reward of

actual combat.

The people who cry low risk/reward are simply irritated that they cannot

finish

the thief that they

already defeated

in combat. Your opponent ran away, big deal, take solace in the fact that you won the fight. Compare the risk/reward of a Thief's combat potential vs. the risk/reward of ...oh I don't know, lets say a Warrior's combat potential. Thief's risk doesn't look so low anymore, does it?If you're getting chewed up by a warrior while roaming on a hyper mobile dd, then the warrior is playing better than you.

Yes and if a hyper defensive Warrior is getting chewed up by a DD, the DD is playing better than him. You have no point here.

While roaming? The dd is at clear advantage unless he's constrained by time, whether because the warrior slips into a structure or gains allies to pressure the thief.

The hyper defensive warrior should otherwise never defeat a properly played mobile dd while roaming. If you're losing to them as a mobile dd then you have some l2p issues because the cards are stacked heavily in your favour in the context of roaming/1v1.

[Turk.5460]

@Choppy.4183 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Choppy.4183 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Choppy.4183 said:

@Skada.1362 said:

@ZhouX.8742 said:After seeing sindrener and a few other top thieves playing with it, it didn't change much , but I think it depends if you're good or not. Not justifying the nerf, but just saying it hasn't shifted playstyles massively if you weren't already spammy with it.

Sindrener kept saying the changes are irrelevant, which may be true in a +1 PVP scenario. But WvW roaming is a whole other thing. As a solo roamer playing DP meta but also acro/tr/DD s/d I suffer hard from these nerfs. These nerfs took out alot of the fun in GW2 for me.

You're impacted more, but that's because the relatively wide open nature makes the dd mobility advantage far greater when roaming in wvw than playing pvp. Meaning, you're suffering a lost advantage that your pvp counterpart didn't really have.

DD mobility and defense potential really has supported a lower risk/reward style of roaming play than is reasonable, and (as has sometimes been the case with other classes) has allowed way too much cover for sloppy play.

The change could be good, though I'd defer to level headed people with greater knowledge of the class to say whether it was the right way to go.

Do not lump risk/reward of

escape

in the same boat as risk/reward of

actual combat.

The people who cry low risk/reward are simply irritated that they cannot

finish

the thief that they

already defeated

in combat. Your opponent ran away, big deal, take solace in the fact that you won the fight. Compare the risk/reward of a Thief's combat potential vs. the risk/reward of ...oh I don't know, lets say a Warrior's combat potential. Thief's risk doesn't look so low anymore, does it?If you're getting chewed up by a warrior while roaming on a hyper mobile dd, then the warrior is playing better than you.

Yes and if a hyper defensive Warrior is getting chewed up by a DD, the DD is playing better than him. You have no point here.

While roaming? The dd is at clear advantage unless he's constrained by time, whether because the warrior slips into a structure or gains allies to pressure the thief.

The hyper defensive warrior should otherwise never defeat a properly played mobile dd while roaming. If you're losing to them, then you have some work to do.

If a Warrior fights a Thief with a similar skill level, there is no reason the Warrior should lose given the kits between the two. If a the Thief disengages, the Warrior will be out of combat at the same time. I don't even know why I'm bothering laying it out to you here, I roam on both Warrior and Thief, I know the potential of both. Unfortunately, you don't seem to as your post history shows that you pretty much only play Warrior, and your bias is incredibly apparent. It seems you have some work to do as a Warrior if you are losing to Daredevils 1v1, especially since you main the one that has the advantage.

[Jinks.2057]

@Sasajoe.1509 said:I play every class (maining rev/engi/ranger/mesmer/warrior/necro & sometimes thief, while trying to get better on ele, my guardian is boring & is too flashy for my taste so it gathers dust atm) & mainly WvW (roaming) the thing that sparks me up is seeing the obvious discrepancies playing a thief vs playing most of other classes while roaming(solo).

And it pisses me off especially a lot when the thief just runs away like there is no tomorrow.... that's so kitten lame.

You should commit like almost every other class - either get in & win or get in & die no in-betweens (talking from a 1v1 perspective)

Engi, Mesmer, Warrior, and ranger all counter the DD thief build. I highly doubt you play thief at all since you show zero understanding of the class's most basic mechanics

[Jinks.2057]

@Jeknar.6184 said:

@Titan.3472 said:Unhindered was used for mobility but its nerf will push players to switch to bounding dodger, instead of runaway dodge it will be dodge smoke stealth & +10% damage lol ^^

Until you get pinned down by a immobilize that you would usually clear with your free dodge spam... God bless being able to hit Daredevils now.

I used to personally 1v5 your guild back when WvW meant something. Those days when thieves were that strong are log gone and now its a l2p issue

[Turk.5460]

@Jinks.2057 said:

@Sasajoe.1509 said:I play every class (maining rev/engi/ranger/mesmer/warrior/necro & sometimes thief, while trying to get better on ele, my guardian is boring & is too flashy for my taste so it gathers dust atm) & mainly WvW (roaming) the thing that sparks me up is seeing the obvious discrepancies playing a thief vs playing most of other classes while roaming(solo).

And it pisses me off especially a lot when the thief just runs away like there is no tomorrow.... that's so kitten lame.

You should commit like almost every other class - either get in & win or get in & die no in-betweens (talking from a 1v1 perspective)

Engi, Mesmer, Warrior, and ranger all counter the DD thief build. I highly doubt you play thief at all since you show zero understanding of the class's most basic mechanics

Unfortunately, an overwhelming majority of the players who whine about Thief obviously show that they do not play the profession. It's generally just cries of "It's so much better than my class! Needs nerf!" When in reality, they are just looking to complain, considering they would be playing Thief if they really thought it was so much better.

[OriOri.8724]

@Cynz.9437 said:

@Sasajoe.1509 said:Spamming evades doesn't equal skill, this change should have been made loooong time ago (as more are needed to bring this class in line)Can't have everything: HUGE burst, teleports, evade SPAM, mobility, stealth, no cooldowns & ability to

reset

combat indefinitely until your opponent has blown off all his cooldowns & is left just standing in the open (which let's be honest isn't making the game particularly fun).

Also nobody forces thieves to play full zerker gear - you can always use some toughness/vitality combo like most other classes in wvw do.

But spamming overloaded skills on low CD and riding passives like other classes do equals skill? UC wouldn't be needed on first place of the powercreep wasn't so insanse (since HoT). Why does only thief gets locked out of AA by own spells? Why does only thief gets their Grandmaster Trait deleted because lets face it game is flooded with chill/cripple/immobs on top of trillion aoes? Why do not other classes get same treatment? Why for example is warrior not locked out of their AA if they miss their burst skill? Or mes locked out of AA if not all their clones hit target on shatter? Why not increase CD on defensive skills on warrior if they have resistance applied to them? That would be equal treatment.

I find it ironic that you say everything: do thieves have invuls? No. Do thieves have high HP pool? No. Do thieves have reliable access to protection/resistance/retal etc.? No. Do thieves have high healing capacity? No. Do thieves have great team support? No. Do thieves have big amount of meaningful AoE? No. The huge burst you talk about happens when all stars align and is only single target damage for most part. Shall we look at other classes that can do way more, have been declared too strong/OP by entire community and yet didn't see nowhere near the same treatment that thieves got.Btw, thieves have CDs, it is called initiative which takes

TIME

to recharge in case you didn't know. And thieves do have CDs on utility skills, once again, just so you know.

Finally counter to thieves? Well, why don't you give thieves counter to other classes. And i mean actual counter, e.g. successful steal prevents guard from using virtues etc. Or do you admit that you just want thief to afk and give you bags?

Good to see that some things never change. You do realize that UC was in game before all of the powercreep that came after HoT , don't you? UC always has been ridiculously overloaded, making DD's immune to immobilize and softCC.

The change to this trait was poorly done, I agree with @apharma.3741 there. But the rational behind it was 100% good reasoning. This trait was one of the remaining things from HoT that was ridiculously broken, and tbh I'm surprised that it finally got addressed.

[Sasajoe.1509]

@Turk.5460 said:

@Choppy.4183 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Choppy.4183 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Choppy.4183 said:

@Skada.1362 said:

@ZhouX.8742 said:After seeing sindrener and a few other top thieves playing with it, it didn't change much , but I think it depends if you're good or not. Not justifying the nerf, but just saying it hasn't shifted playstyles massively if you weren't already spammy with it.

Sindrener kept saying the changes are irrelevant, which may be true in a +1 PVP scenario. But WvW roaming is a whole other thing. As a solo roamer playing DP meta but also acro/tr/DD s/d I suffer hard from these nerfs. These nerfs took out alot of the fun in GW2 for me.

You're impacted more, but that's because the relatively wide open nature makes the dd mobility advantage far greater when roaming in wvw than playing pvp. Meaning, you're suffering a lost advantage that your pvp counterpart didn't really have.

DD mobility and defense potential really has supported a lower risk/reward style of roaming play than is reasonable, and (as has sometimes been the case with other classes) has allowed way too much cover for sloppy play.

The change could be good, though I'd defer to level headed people with greater knowledge of the class to say whether it was the right way to go.

Do not lump risk/reward of

escape

in the same boat as risk/reward of

actual combat.

The people who cry low risk/reward are simply irritated that they cannot

finish

the thief that they

already defeated

in combat. Your opponent ran away, big deal, take solace in the fact that you won the fight. Compare the risk/reward of a Thief's combat potential vs. the risk/reward of ...oh I don't know, lets say a Warrior's combat potential. Thief's risk doesn't look so low anymore, does it?If you're getting chewed up by a warrior while roaming on a hyper mobile dd, then the warrior is playing better than you.

Yes and if a hyper defensive Warrior is getting chewed up by a DD, the DD is playing better than him. You have no point here.

While roaming? The dd is at clear advantage unless he's constrained by time, whether because the warrior slips into a structure or gains allies to pressure the thief.

The hyper defensive warrior should otherwise never defeat a properly played mobile dd while roaming. If you're losing to them, then you have some work to do.

If a Warrior fights a Thief with a similar skill level, there is no reason the Warrior should lose given the kits between the two. If a the Thief disengages, the Warrior will be out of combat at the same time. I don't even know why I'm bothering laying it out to you here, I roam on both Warrior and Thief, I know the potential of both. Unfortunately, you don't seem to as your post history shows that you pretty much only play Warrior, and your bias is incredibly apparent. It seems you have some work to do as a Warrior if you are losing to Daredevils 1v1, especially since you main the one that has the advantage.

So you want to tell me & everyone on this forum that as soon as the warrior gets out of combat also gets his cooldowns reset ??? because the only thing a thief needs to wait for when resetting is his health to get back up while warr & many other classes have much lengthier skill cds.

I don't see where is the argument here - the thief is at clear advantage when resetting combat period!

[Choppy.4183]

@Turk.5460 said:

@Choppy.4183 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Choppy.4183 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Choppy.4183 said:

@Skada.1362 said:

@ZhouX.8742 said:After seeing sindrener and a few other top thieves playing with it, it didn't change much , but I think it depends if you're good or not. Not justifying the nerf, but just saying it hasn't shifted playstyles massively if you weren't already spammy with it.

Sindrener kept saying the changes are irrelevant, which may be true in a +1 PVP scenario. But WvW roaming is a whole other thing. As a solo roamer playing DP meta but also acro/tr/DD s/d I suffer hard from these nerfs. These nerfs took out alot of the fun in GW2 for me.

You're impacted more, but that's because the relatively wide open nature makes the dd mobility advantage far greater when roaming in wvw than playing pvp. Meaning, you're suffering a lost advantage that your pvp counterpart didn't really have.

DD mobility and defense potential really has supported a lower risk/reward style of roaming play than is reasonable, and (as has sometimes been the case with other classes) has allowed way too much cover for sloppy play.

The change could be good, though I'd defer to level headed people with greater knowledge of the class to say whether it was the right way to go.

Do not lump risk/reward of

escape

in the same boat as risk/reward of

actual combat.

The people who cry low risk/reward are simply irritated that they cannot

finish

the thief that they

already defeated

in combat. Your opponent ran away, big deal, take solace in the fact that you won the fight. Compare the risk/reward of a Thief's combat potential vs. the risk/reward of ...oh I don't know, lets say a Warrior's combat potential. Thief's risk doesn't look so low anymore, does it?If you're getting chewed up by a warrior while roaming on a hyper mobile dd, then the warrior is playing better than you.

Yes and if a hyper defensive Warrior is getting chewed up by a DD, the DD is playing better than him. You have no point here.

While roaming? The dd is at clear advantage unless he's constrained by time, whether because the warrior slips into a structure or gains allies to pressure the thief.

The hyper defensive warrior should otherwise never defeat a properly played mobile dd while roaming. If you're losing to them, then you have some work to do.

If a Warrior fights a Thief with a similar skill level, there is no reason the Warrior should lose given the kits between the two. If a the Thief disengages, the Warrior will be out of combat at the same time. I don't even know why I'm bothering laying it out to you here, I roam on both Warrior and Thief, I know the potential of both. Unfortunately, you don't seem to as your post history shows that you pretty much only play Warrior, and your bias is incredibly apparent. It seems you have some work to do as a Warrior if you are losing to Daredevils 1v1, especially since you main the one that has the advantage.

Who said anything about resetting the fight? Just stay out of melee range until you're good and ready to close.

Too often you seem to assume that superior mobility is only useful for disengaging, which, frankly, calls into question your skill playing either class.

[Turk.5460]

@Choppy.4183 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Choppy.4183 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Choppy.4183 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Choppy.4183 said:

@Skada.1362 said:

@ZhouX.8742 said:After seeing sindrener and a few other top thieves playing with it, it didn't change much , but I think it depends if you're good or not. Not justifying the nerf, but just saying it hasn't shifted playstyles massively if you weren't already spammy with it.

Sindrener kept saying the changes are irrelevant, which may be true in a +1 PVP scenario. But WvW roaming is a whole other thing. As a solo roamer playing DP meta but also acro/tr/DD s/d I suffer hard from these nerfs. These nerfs took out alot of the fun in GW2 for me.

You're impacted more, but that's because the relatively wide open nature makes the dd mobility advantage far greater when roaming in wvw than playing pvp. Meaning, you're suffering a lost advantage that your pvp counterpart didn't really have.

DD mobility and defense potential really has supported a lower risk/reward style of roaming play than is reasonable, and (as has sometimes been the case with other classes) has allowed way too much cover for sloppy play.

The change could be good, though I'd defer to level headed people with greater knowledge of the class to say whether it was the right way to go.

Do not lump risk/reward of

escape

in the same boat as risk/reward of

actual combat.

The people who cry low risk/reward are simply irritated that they cannot

finish

the thief that they

already defeated

in combat. Your opponent ran away, big deal, take solace in the fact that you won the fight. Compare the risk/reward of a Thief's combat potential vs. the risk/reward of ...oh I don't know, lets say a Warrior's combat potential. Thief's risk doesn't look so low anymore, does it?If you're getting chewed up by a warrior while roaming on a hyper mobile dd, then the warrior is playing better than you.

Yes and if a hyper defensive Warrior is getting chewed up by a DD, the DD is playing better than him. You have no point here.

While roaming? The dd is at clear advantage unless he's constrained by time, whether because the warrior slips into a structure or gains allies to pressure the thief.

The hyper defensive warrior should otherwise never defeat a properly played mobile dd while roaming. If you're losing to them, then you have some work to do.

If a Warrior fights a Thief with a similar skill level, there is no reason the Warrior should lose given the kits between the two. If a the Thief disengages, the Warrior will be out of combat at the same time. I don't even know why I'm bothering laying it out to you here, I roam on both Warrior and Thief, I know the potential of both. Unfortunately, you don't seem to as your post history shows that you pretty much only play Warrior, and your bias is incredibly apparent. It seems you have some work to do as a Warrior if you are losing to Daredevils 1v1, especially since you main the one that has the advantage.

Who said anything about resetting the fight? Just stay out of melee range until you're good and ready to close.

Too often you seem to assume that superior mobility is only useful for disengaging, which, frankly, calls into question your skill playing either class.

In the context of your common DD vs the common Warrior, that's really all it will help you with outside damage mitigation while in combat. If you are being damaged by a Thief's shortbow, I daresay you need far more practice as Warrior before even attempting to post on a profession's forum in which you are consistently showing lack of basic understanding. Please take your incredible bias elsewhere.

[Choppy.4183]

@Turk.5460 said:

@Choppy.4183 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Choppy.4183 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Choppy.4183 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Choppy.4183 said:

@Skada.1362 said:

@ZhouX.8742 said:After seeing sindrener and a few other top thieves playing with it, it didn't change much , but I think it depends if you're good or not. Not justifying the nerf, but just saying it hasn't shifted playstyles massively if you weren't already spammy with it.

Sindrener kept saying the changes are irrelevant, which may be true in a +1 PVP scenario. But WvW roaming is a whole other thing. As a solo roamer playing DP meta but also acro/tr/DD s/d I suffer hard from these nerfs. These nerfs took out alot of the fun in GW2 for me.

You're impacted more, but that's because the relatively wide open nature makes the dd mobility advantage far greater when roaming in wvw than playing pvp. Meaning, you're suffering a lost advantage that your pvp counterpart didn't really have.

DD mobility and defense potential really has supported a lower risk/reward style of roaming play than is reasonable, and (as has sometimes been the case with other classes) has allowed way too much cover for sloppy play.

The change could be good, though I'd defer to level headed people with greater knowledge of the class to say whether it was the right way to go.

Do not lump risk/reward of

escape

in the same boat as risk/reward of

actual combat.

The people who cry low risk/reward are simply irritated that they cannot

finish

the thief that they

already defeated

in combat. Your opponent ran away, big deal, take solace in the fact that you won the fight. Compare the risk/reward of a Thief's combat potential vs. the risk/reward of ...oh I don't know, lets say a Warrior's combat potential. Thief's risk doesn't look so low anymore, does it?If you're getting chewed up by a warrior while roaming on a hyper mobile dd, then the warrior is playing better than you.

Yes and if a hyper defensive Warrior is getting chewed up by a DD, the DD is playing better than him. You have no point here.

While roaming? The dd is at clear advantage unless he's constrained by time, whether because the warrior slips into a structure or gains allies to pressure the thief.

The hyper defensive warrior should otherwise never defeat a properly played mobile dd while roaming. If you're losing to them, then you have some work to do.

If a Warrior fights a Thief with a similar skill level, there is no reason the Warrior should lose given the kits between the two. If a the Thief disengages, the Warrior will be out of combat at the same time. I don't even know why I'm bothering laying it out to you here, I roam on both Warrior and Thief, I know the potential of both. Unfortunately, you don't seem to as your post history shows that you pretty much only play Warrior, and your bias is incredibly apparent. It seems you have some work to do as a Warrior if you are losing to Daredevils 1v1, especially since you main the one that has the advantage.

Who said anything about resetting the fight? Just stay out of melee range until you're good and ready to close.

Too often you seem to assume that superior mobility is only useful for disengaging, which, frankly, calls into question your skill playing either class.

In the context of your common DD vs the common Warrior, that's really all it will help you with outside damage mitigation while in combat. If you are being damaged by a Thief's shortbow, I daresay you need far more practice as Warrior before even attempting to post on a profession's forum in which you are consistently showing lack of basic understanding. Please take your incredible bias elsewhere.

I'm embarrassed to have to explain this to you, but you do know that dd builds can use their superior mobility to both stay out of range of a warrior's attacks and control when to enter melee combat, right? That doesn't mean the warrior is necessarily a sitting duck, but yeah, that's a major advantage you can leverage against the warrior. You're welcome.

Also, too often thieves underestimate the value of the shortbow beyond Infiltrator's Arrow. Even if you're just plinking with the auto, you're out trading a melee warrior who's not in melee range. Choking Gas is a great way to crimp his sustain too., and it'll also increase the damage of Trick Shot. Of course, keeping range will also deny most warrior's ability to benefit from Adrenal Health, which is another big part of the his sustain package. So, again, you're welcome.

Maybe some of the more highly skilled thieves here could give you additional pointers.

As for bias, remember that you already acknowledged on another thread that a soft counter to the very thing under discussion was fair enough, though you didn't like the way Anet went about it. For my part, I already acknowledged (twice in this thread) that there may have been better ways for them to go about it.

[Turk.5460]

@Choppy.4183 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Choppy.4183 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Choppy.4183 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Choppy.4183 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Choppy.4183 said:

@Skada.1362 said:

@ZhouX.8742 said:After seeing sindrener and a few other top thieves playing with it, it didn't change much , but I think it depends if you're good or not. Not justifying the nerf, but just saying it hasn't shifted playstyles massively if you weren't already spammy with it.

Sindrener kept saying the changes are irrelevant, which may be true in a +1 PVP scenario. But WvW roaming is a whole other thing. As a solo roamer playing DP meta but also acro/tr/DD s/d I suffer hard from these nerfs. These nerfs took out alot of the fun in GW2 for me.

You're impacted more, but that's because the relatively wide open nature makes the dd mobility advantage far greater when roaming in wvw than playing pvp. Meaning, you're suffering a lost advantage that your pvp counterpart didn't really have.

DD mobility and defense potential really has supported a lower risk/reward style of roaming play than is reasonable, and (as has sometimes been the case with other classes) has allowed way too much cover for sloppy play.

The change could be good, though I'd defer to level headed people with greater knowledge of the class to say whether it was the right way to go.

Do not lump risk/reward of

escape

in the same boat as risk/reward of

actual combat.

The people who cry low risk/reward are simply irritated that they cannot

finish

the thief that they

already defeated

in combat. Your opponent ran away, big deal, take solace in the fact that you won the fight. Compare the risk/reward of a Thief's combat potential vs. the risk/reward of ...oh I don't know, lets say a Warrior's combat potential. Thief's risk doesn't look so low anymore, does it?If you're getting chewed up by a warrior while roaming on a hyper mobile dd, then the warrior is playing better than you.

Yes and if a hyper defensive Warrior is getting chewed up by a DD, the DD is playing better than him. You have no point here.

While roaming? The dd is at clear advantage unless he's constrained by time, whether because the warrior slips into a structure or gains allies to pressure the thief.

The hyper defensive warrior should otherwise never defeat a properly played mobile dd while roaming. If you're losing to them, then you have some work to do.

If a Warrior fights a Thief with a similar skill level, there is no reason the Warrior should lose given the kits between the two. If a the Thief disengages, the Warrior will be out of combat at the same time. I don't even know why I'm bothering laying it out to you here, I roam on both Warrior and Thief, I know the potential of both. Unfortunately, you don't seem to as your post history shows that you pretty much only play Warrior, and your bias is incredibly apparent. It seems you have some work to do as a Warrior if you are losing to Daredevils 1v1, especially since you main the one that has the advantage.

Who said anything about resetting the fight? Just stay out of melee range until you're good and ready to close.

Too often you seem to assume that superior mobility is only useful for disengaging, which, frankly, calls into question your skill playing either class.

In the context of your common DD vs the common Warrior, that's really all it will help you with outside damage mitigation while in combat. If you are being damaged by a Thief's shortbow, I daresay you need far more practice as Warrior before even attempting to post on a profession's forum in which you are consistently showing lack of basic understanding. Please take your incredible bias elsewhere.

I'm embarrassed to have to explain this to you, but you do know that dd builds can use their superior mobility to both stay out of range of a warrior's attacks

and

control when to enter melee combat, right? That doesn't mean the warrior is necessarily a sitting duck, but yeah, that's a major advantage you can leverage against the warrior. You're welcome.

Also, too often thieves underestimate the value of the shortbow beyond shadow step. Even if you're just plinking with the auto, you're out trading a melee warrior who's not in melee range. Your poison application is a great way to crimp his sustain too., and it'll also increase the damage of Trick Shot. Of course, keeping range also denies most warrior's ability to benefit from Adrenal Health, which is another big part of the his sustain package. So, again, you're welcome.

Maybe some of the more highly skilled thieves here could give you additional pointers.

As for bias, remember that you already acknowledged on another thread that a soft counter to the very thing under discussion was fair enough, though you didn't like the way Anet went about it. For my part, I already acknowledged (twice in this thread) that there may have been better ways for them to go about it.

Sure, buddy. Whatever makes you feel more secure. I'm done teaching you how to play Thief and Warrior. You'll just need some more practice and persistence. I'll leave you with this challenge though: I dare you to duel a competent Warrior as a Thief and kill him with Shortbow. According to your theory, it should be easy for you, right?

[Choppy.4183]

@Turk.5460 said:

@Choppy.4183 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Choppy.4183 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Choppy.4183 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Choppy.4183 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Choppy.4183 said:

@Skada.1362 said:

@ZhouX.8742 said:After seeing sindrener and a few other top thieves playing with it, it didn't change much , but I think it depends if you're good or not. Not justifying the nerf, but just saying it hasn't shifted playstyles massively if you weren't already spammy with it.

Sindrener kept saying the changes are irrelevant, which may be true in a +1 PVP scenario. But WvW roaming is a whole other thing. As a solo roamer playing DP meta but also acro/tr/DD s/d I suffer hard from these nerfs. These nerfs took out alot of the fun in GW2 for me.

You're impacted more, but that's because the relatively wide open nature makes the dd mobility advantage far greater when roaming in wvw than playing pvp. Meaning, you're suffering a lost advantage that your pvp counterpart didn't really have.

DD mobility and defense potential really has supported a lower risk/reward style of roaming play than is reasonable, and (as has sometimes been the case with other classes) has allowed way too much cover for sloppy play.

The change could be good, though I'd defer to level headed people with greater knowledge of the class to say whether it was the right way to go.

Do not lump risk/reward of

escape

in the same boat as risk/reward of

actual combat.

The people who cry low risk/reward are simply irritated that they cannot

finish

the thief that they

already defeated

in combat. Your opponent ran away, big deal, take solace in the fact that you won the fight. Compare the risk/reward of a Thief's combat potential vs. the risk/reward of ...oh I don't know, lets say a Warrior's combat potential. Thief's risk doesn't look so low anymore, does it?If you're getting chewed up by a warrior while roaming on a hyper mobile dd, then the warrior is playing better than you.

Yes and if a hyper defensive Warrior is getting chewed up by a DD, the DD is playing better than him. You have no point here.

While roaming? The dd is at clear advantage unless he's constrained by time, whether because the warrior slips into a structure or gains allies to pressure the thief.

The hyper defensive warrior should otherwise never defeat a properly played mobile dd while roaming. If you're losing to them, then you have some work to do.

If a Warrior fights a Thief with a similar skill level, there is no reason the Warrior should lose given the kits between the two. If a the Thief disengages, the Warrior will be out of combat at the same time. I don't even know why I'm bothering laying it out to you here, I roam on both Warrior and Thief, I know the potential of both. Unfortunately, you don't seem to as your post history shows that you pretty much only play Warrior, and your bias is incredibly apparent. It seems you have some work to do as a Warrior if you are losing to Daredevils 1v1, especially since you main the one that has the advantage.

Who said anything about resetting the fight? Just stay out of melee range until you're good and ready to close.

Too often you seem to assume that superior mobility is only useful for disengaging, which, frankly, calls into question your skill playing either class.

In the context of your common DD vs the common Warrior, that's really all it will help you with outside damage mitigation while in combat. If you are being damaged by a Thief's shortbow, I daresay you need far more practice as Warrior before even attempting to post on a profession's forum in which you are consistently showing lack of basic understanding. Please take your incredible bias elsewhere.

I'm embarrassed to have to explain this to you, but you do know that dd builds can use their superior mobility to both stay out of range of a warrior's attacks

and

control when to enter melee combat, right? That doesn't mean the warrior is necessarily a sitting duck, but yeah, that's a major advantage you can leverage against the warrior. You're welcome.

Also, too often thieves underestimate the value of the shortbow beyond shadow step. Even if you're just plinking with the auto, you're out trading a melee warrior who's not in melee range. Your poison application is a great way to crimp his sustain too., and it'll also increase the damage of Trick Shot. Of course, keeping range also denies most warrior's ability to benefit from Adrenal Health, which is another big part of the his sustain package. So, again, you're welcome.

Maybe some of the more highly skilled thieves here could give you additional pointers.

As for bias, remember that you already acknowledged on another thread that a soft counter to the very thing under discussion was fair enough, though you didn't like the way Anet went about it. For my part, I already acknowledged (twice in this thread) that there may have been better ways for them to go about it.

Sure, buddy. Whatever makes you feel more secure. I'm done teaching you how to play Thief and Warrior. You'll just need some more practice and persistence. I'll leave you with this challenge though: I dare you to duel a competent Warrior as a Thief and kill him with Shortbow. According to your theory, it should be easy for you, right?

You'll have to learn to play either one before you can teach anyone, sport. What I laid out for you was some pretty rudimentary tactics that a mobile dd can use while roaming against quite a lot of different classes. I have faith in you... you can master them too, and maybe go beyond. Best of luck!

[bq pd.2148]

you guys are both on na why dont you just fight each other in guild hall instead of here, then you will know who needs practise :Dand yes i know warrior has an advantage there cause of retaliation but dunno if your servers are matched against each other or rather not