Weaver and Tempest overnerfed and forgotten

[draxynnic.3719]

On 4/5/2022 at 4:18 PM, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

As I have said in the previous thread: weaver doesn't need quickness or alacrity.  It needs higher damage coefficients and the traits re-organized to give better health/sustain/defenses to the maximum DPS builds.  The reason for this is pretty simple: adding quickness or alacrity to the spec would only benefit specific solo-DPS specs that can take the traits, and nobody else.  Weaver needs buffs to all specs: more defense on the offensive builds, more offense on the defensive and utility builds.  

Problem is, ArenaNet has clearly decided that damage can't go over a certain threshold, and weaver is already close to that threshold. They might let it get another 1k in raid situations, but no more than that. Just not going to happen.

So we need to focus on things that can happen.

This cap puts elementalists in general in a bit of a bind, since they're the most fragile profession in the game but will never get damage over that 40k benchmark to compensate for it. So in open world they're either more fragile than other professions, or they invest in more defensive gear like cele or trailblazer and then take longer to kill things (unless compared to other professions using those sets, in which case they go back to being more fragile without having more damage to compensate).

There are basically two practical ways to resolve this. Increasing durability and sustain is one. Adding self-application of potent offensive builds is another, since this makes it stronger when solo but does not increase its output in group content where the boon is provided by another.

Significant increases to damage coefficients just isn't going to happen. It might get an extra 2-3% damage that way, but that's all it can take before ArenaNet will start reaching for the nerfbat for the sake of raids. And 2-3% is not going to make a big difference to how it plays in open world.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

3 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Problem is, ArenaNet has clearly decided that damage can't go over a certain threshold, and weaver is already close to that threshold. They might let it get another 1k in raid situations, but no more than that. Just not going to happen.

So we need to focus on things that can happen.

This cap puts elementalists in general in a bit of a bind, since they're the most fragile profession in the game but will never get damage over that 40k benchmark to compensate for it. So in open world they're either more fragile than other professions, or they invest in more defensive gear like cele or trailblazer and then take longer to kill things (unless compared to other professions using those sets, in which case they go back to being more fragile without having more damage to compensate).

There are basically two practical ways to resolve this. Increasing durability and sustain is one. Adding self-application of potent offensive builds is another, since this makes it stronger when solo but does not increase its output in group content where the boon is provided by another.

Significant increases to damage coefficients just isn't going to happen. It might get an extra 2-3% damage that way, but that's all it can take before ArenaNet will start reaching for the nerfbat for the sake of raids. And 2-3% is not going to make a big difference to how it plays in open world.

Power Weaver is benching at 37k.  They could get a full 10% increase to match virtuoso.  The biggest coefficient buffs won't come out of the fire and air lines, but in water and earth.  Those skills (scepter, dagger, sword specifically) are drastically underpowered and serve only as filler for the additional functions of those attunements.  These skills can be buffed significantly without affecting total raid performance, while greatly enhancing solo and n00b performance.  For example, the damage of sword water auto attacks could be doubled in strength, and they would still be weaker than fire/air and wouldn't be used for any DPS rotations.

Better minor traits (basically Master's Fortitude innate) is another thing that could be done to alleviate the pressure.  However, Weaver is still very much and all-or-nothing profession in buildcraft.  The condi builds have to take 3 DPS utilities, and 3 DPS traits in the weaver line.  Power builds get... arguably one free utility slot, and 3 DPS traits with one that is different from the condi build.  This creates an issue with balancing the profession, since all damage is currently compared to a pure DPS spec.  Weaver doesn't actually have high coefficients.  Instead, it has traits that buff it significantly.  I.E. Weaver's Prowess is a 10% damage 20% duration boost, which is one of the highest I've seen in any profession, and ultimately it proves that the conditions on weaver are underpowered if such a strong trait just makes weaver mediocre.  Other professions have better survival because they have mandatory defensive traits (which they get balanced around having), an their offensive utilities are so restricted that signets become the peak, yet very disposable, DPS.

This is what I mean when I say that weaver needs buffs everywhere.  It's water and earth skills need damage buffs, not to make the weaver do more DPS but to make these attunements less punishing.  The fire and air skills need minor buffs, because the overall damage under ideal situations needs to be increased, as well as the damage in non-ideal situations.  Putting self-quickness or self-alacrity somewhere will compete with the incredibly strong pure-DPS traits that weaver already has, as well as doing nothing for the builds that take either the offensive or defensive traits instead.  When I play weaver in the overworld or when I'm solo, the biggest problems I encounter is not a lack of quickness or alacrity.  The slew of dual-skill haymakers means that most enemies are dead without much downtime.  The problem I encounter is that I either have low damage due to taking defensive traits/utilities, or I have low survival due to taking offensive traits/utilities.  

[draxynnic.3719]

There's probably a limit to how much the power coefficients on earth skills can be buffed. The condition weaver rotation spends a reasonable amount of time in earth, and on a Viper's build, power coefficients are still somewhat significant. Probably could afford to raise them a little without getting out of the allowed range, but there's a limit.

Water they can probably be a bit more free with, and they might even be able to get away with buffing air a bit since condi weaver doesn't use that attunement much.

More incidental defence and/or sustain is certainly another approach that could be taken (and it would mean a buff in raid conditions as well, just not one that will return to the days when elementalist ruled DPS slots). Personally, I'd have to say I've been disappointed pretty much since release that elementalist was advertised as being able to switch roles by switching attunements... which might have worked in alpha, but by the time we got to release, it was pretty much "your role is decided by the stats on your gear, and the attunements you actually use are therefore determined by your gear". Could be nice for elementalists to actually have some genuine "okay, we're under a bit of extra pressure here, so while I'm here as a DPS, if I forego some DPS I can help take some pressure off the group now and go back to DPSing afterwards" potential.

Like, well, Firebrand can do through popping an F2 or F3 on a DPS build, except a less extreme shift.

Kinda depends on the approach one wants to take. More baked-in defences addresses the issue of durability directly if they have the desired effect. Self-application of offensive boons such as quickness and alacrity, by contrast, gives them a higher base DPS while solo, which could then be converted into using more defensive gear and/or more defensive traits while still having decent damage. The current issue is that you either have about as much damage as everyone else and minimal survivability, or you invest in survivability and then end up with minimal damage. One approach allows elementalist to have that "I'm a high damage glass cannon" fantasy in solo with the option to tone down to about the same offense/defence balance other professions have, while the other shifts it towards having roughly the same balance to begin with.

Edited April 7, 2022 by draxynnic.3719

[Puck.3697]

14 hours ago, Ruisen.9471 said:

Weaver used to be ranged, staff was meta for years until they nerfed it to the ground.

I know, was a weird move on Anets part. It's annoying that every other proffession gets ranged abilities and melee abilities as viable options but eles fall short here. 

Primarily because the mechanic we got to supplement the fact we can't weapon swap has been left dead for years. 

Conjured weapons. 

This was susposed to mean melee weapons had ranged options and ranged weapons had melee options. Yet falls entirely short because they gutted the system. 

Catalyst is pretty good with the changes, weaver does enough as a condi / hybrid DPS (although be nice if they could be equalised with virt at 40k.) 

Tempest yeah since the cut to 5 man they tore anything good about it out rly... It defintly does need addressing. 

Core of the problems however are at core. 

Alot of elementalists core utilities need quite abit of help, core weapons such as sceptre and staff could use modernising, conjure weapons need modernising. 

A really cool way imho to modernise conjured weapons is to have it alike how warriors gunblade works now. Pick one of conjures and it will work like a kit on a normal weapon swap CD. So say you put it on utility 2, now utility 2 works like a weapon swap. No ground targeting to the floor, no huge CD on it. 

Allow them to replace the shortfalls of no weapon swap properly. They can seperate the CD if it works out too overpowered to make them strong in PvE content. 

Conjure weapons is one of the key things I'm hoping I see good changes to. Because having them updated will relieve alot of the problems.

18 hours ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

There's plenty of champions, legendaries and world bosses open world. 

Also I remembered another as bad as weaver without alacrity. 

Virtuoso. 

It's entire rotation will stop without alacrity as it's shatter rotations are based on alacrity CDs, you will overstack blades continously as you cannot use them. 

I'd argue it's a worse position. As atleast weaver isn't sitting on mechanical CDs and overstacking resources that are responsible for the vast majority of its Damage. 

 

[AliamRationem.5172]

27 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

I know, was a weird move on Anets part. It's annoying that every other proffession gets ranged abilities and melee abilities as viable options but eles fall short here. 

Primarily because the mechanic we got to supplement the fact we can't weapon swap has been left dead for years. 

Conjured weapons. 

This was susposed to mean melee weapons had ranged options and ranged weapons had melee options. Yet falls entirely short because they gutted the system. 

Catalyst is pretty good with the changes, weaver does enough as a condi / hybrid DPS (although be nice if they could be equalised with virt at 40k.) 

Tempest yeah since the cut to 5 man they tore anything good about it out rly... It defintly does need addressing. 

Core of the problems however are at core. 

Alot of elementalists core utilities need quite abit of help, core weapons such as sceptre and staff could use modernising, conjure weapons need modernising. 

A really cool way imho to modernise conjured weapons is to have it alike how warriors gunblade works now. Pick one of conjures and it will work like a kit on a normal weapon swap CD. So say you put it on utility 2, now utility 2 works like a weapon swap. No ground targeting to the floor, no huge CD on it. 

Allow them to replace the shortfalls of no weapon swap properly. They can seperate the CD if it works out too overpowered to make them strong in PvE content. 

Conjure weapons is one of the key things I'm hoping I see good changes to. Because having them updated will relieve alot of the problems.

Also I remembered another as bad as weaver without alacrity. 

Virtuoso. 

It's entire rotation will stop without alacrity as it's shatter rotations are based on alacrity CDs, you will overstack blades continously as you cannot use them. 

I'd argue it's a worse position. As atleast weaver isn't sitting on mechanical CDs and overstacking resources that are responsible for the vast majority of its Damage. 

 

I know I say it all the time but I would really love it if conjures were updated to function like kits.  The idea of not having a weapon swap is an unjustified liability at this point and conjures are not cutting it as compensation. 

[Infinity.2876]

Weaver needs to give its power traits (elements of rage(overload gains increase crit) and superior elements(overloads weaken enemies struck)),

And then needs to buff or add more sustain via barrier

 

Tempest needs better power burst traits added via the swap mentioned in this post and gain a passive buff when you have an aura

fire: gain might periodically

ice: gain health or regeneration periodically

earth: gain protection periodically

Air: gain fury periodically

Edited April 7, 2022 by Infinity.2876

[The Boz.2038]

17 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

A really cool way imho to modernise conjured weapons is to

Delete all of them, merge axe and GS, and come up with a Glyph of Weaponry. Then come up with an entirely new core skill type that makes sense.

[ClickToKill.8473]

I think maybe they should work on tweaking core ele, and that could make both specs stronger.  I personally think the need to always rely the Arcane spec hurts the ele class when it comes to building because its too good not to take. 

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

You want to make Weaver healthier by implemanting more mechanics and self boon generation etc. How is it suppose to help newbie and average players if, in addition to the knowledge of all skills, CD, different chains/combo, you want them to build, rotate, combo, for alacrity ? I think it's nonsense. Of course you want alacrity, you also want perma quickness, banner's buff, you want frost spirit etc; but that's not how you'll help weavers, that's not what players need.

Weaver needs a rearrangement in traits to look like more Daredevil traitlane, or the new specs :
Adepts for stuffs (proc weakness, proc superspeed, ...) Masters for Sustain ( on dodges, on stances, vitality bonus) and Grandmaster for DPS (the condi trait, the precision gain etc)
You need to oblige, and so help weaver, to build with sustain or vitality bonus. Why not even some new traits, like +15% precision  if you have barrier so you could just run stone resonnance in instanced pve with few losses.

Then obviously you buff base power and coefficients to recover the dps lost.

Edited April 8, 2022 by Zhaid Zhem.6508

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

1 hour ago, ClickToKill.8473 said:

I think maybe they should work on tweaking core ele, and that could make both specs stronger.  I personally think the need to always rely the Arcane spec hurts the ele class when it comes to building because its too good not to take. 

 

It's hard without nerfing Elemental Enchantment and Elemental Attunement. These 2 traits enhance whatever you build arround; more sunspot, more healing ripple, more cleanse, more electric discharge (less than FA, but still) ...
But if you don't want arcane you still can't only stand in one element as you have now a free traitlane to buff an other element. You know what I mean ?

"Hmm, I don't want to  build arround Arcane and attunement swap, I want to only use Fire element ... hmm yeah but now I need to fill the empty slot  with Earth, water or Air traitlane; and they each enhancce their respective element, so I still need to swap attunement...

Or you need a big rework of  ALL traits, and particulary minor ones on attunement swap and attunement "camp". No more sunspot, no more, Empowering flame, no more superspeed, etc.

 

Painfull, but necessary IMO if we want to make Arcane less prevailing : delete Elemental Enchantment (-15% on attunement CD). May be split it by element (In fire traitlane, -15% on fire attunement CD)

 

Edited April 8, 2022 by Zhaid Zhem.6508

[ClickToKill.8473]

3 minutes ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

 

It's hard without nerfing Elemental Enchantment and Elemental Attunement. These 2 traits enhance whatever you build arround; more sunspot, more healing ripple,  more electric dischage (less than FA, but still) ...
But if you don't want arcane you still can't only stand in one element as you have now a free traitlane to buff an other element. You know what I mean ?

"Hmm, I don't want to  build arround Arcane and attunement swap, I want to only use Fire element ... hmm yeah but now I need to fill the empty slot  with Earth, water or Air traitlane; and they each enhancce their respective element, so I still need to swap attunement...

 

Or you need a big rework of  ALL traits, and particulary minor ones on attunement swap and attunement "camp". No more sunspot, no more, Empowering flame, no more superspeed, etc.

 

 

As I said in another thread, the attunement recharge should be removed from Elemental Enchantment and just be added to the class as a buff.

 

As for the boons from elemental attunement, they should be added to each attunement activation instead, but when taking elemental attunement,. it spreads them to allies.  So naturally attuning to fire will give you might, water... regen, etc. 

[Bleikopf.2491]

21 minutes ago, ClickToKill.8473 said:

 

As I said in another thread, the attunement recharge should be removed from Elemental Enchantment and just be added to the class as a buff.

 

As for the boons from elemental attunement, they should be added to each attunement activation instead, but when taking elemental attunement,. it spreads them to allies.  So naturally attuning to fire will give you might, water... regen, etc. 

Actually agree.

The problem (imo) with core is that it doesn't fulfill the class identity. Every attunement is too specialized, and the traits make it worse. The whole idea of Ele is not to specialize in one or two attunements and have two that are just nice to have. That was GW1. It's to be a jack-of-all-trades; to swap attunements a lot to fit the current situation.

Arcane is the only traitline which actually fulfills that.

[Jski.6180]

The issue on identity of the ele classes are not full rolls. Ele over all is an cele class and all of its eleit spec are also cele (sadly anet thinks that means the class should be missing effects too.)

Tempest is anty hard cc class, Weaver is the tankly class, and Catalyses is the uniquest effect class. Non of these are full rolls and you can make the argument that tempest weaver and catalyses can all fill the same roll depending on there gear set up and trait set up.

I would like to see tempest get more aoe support though WH skills and shout effects to be more of that support class (WH earth copy def boons and effects, WH fire copy aggressive boons and effects, WH water copy healing boons and effects and WH air copy movement boons and effects with shouts over all giving more boons and healing).

I want to see weaver get boon strip and self powerfully boons to fill that dps selfish class (boon strips on 2-5 targets and powerful boons from its stances).

I want to see catalyst get means of giving limited number of targets its uniquest set of boons so its not filling the same "self only effect" roll as weaver (give means of sharing your orbs to one target at a time and only let a player get one orb at a time that is not self as well as letting agments give out aoe 3-5 target shaired effect).

Added though: I would also like to see core ele get an F5 of transmutation all where it can transmuted all auras on it self when it wants on a 3 sec cd.

Edited April 8, 2022 by Jski.6180
Added thoughs.

[Puck.3697]

14 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

The issue on identity of the ele classes are not full rolls. Ele over all is an cele class and all of its eleit spec are also cele (sadly anet thinks that means the class should be missing effects too.)

Tempest is anty hard cc class, Weaver is the tankly class, and Catalyses is the uniquest effect class. Non of these are full rolls and you can make the argument that tempest weaver and catalyses can all fill the same roll depending on there gear set up and trait set up.

I would like to see tempest get more aoe support though WH skills and shout effects to be more of that support class (WH earth copy def boons and effects, WH fire copy aggressive boons and effects, WH water copy healing boons and effects and WH air copy movement boons and effects with shouts over all giving more boons and healing).

I want to see weaver get boon strip and self powerfully boons to fill that dps selfish class (boon strips on 2-5 targets and powerful boons from its stances).

I want to see catalyst get means of giving limited number of targets its uniquest set of boons so its not filling the same "self only effect" roll as weaver (give means of sharing your orbs to one target at a time and only let a player get one orb at a time that is not self as well as letting agments give out aoe 3-5 target shaired effect).

Added though: I would also like to see core ele get an F5 of transmutation all where it can transmuted all auras on it self when it wants on a 3 sec cd.

Tbh grieving held lot of potiental for ele, the issue is we need to see traits which allows power to bolster Condi and Condi to bolster power to create this affect imho. 

Hybrid weaver feels so good to play. Anet seem so fixed on boxing it as a power or Condi build tho it misses the mark 

[draxynnic.3719]

2 hours ago, ClickToKill.8473 said:

I think maybe they should work on tweaking core ele, and that could make both specs stronger.  I personally think the need to always rely the Arcane spec hurts the ele class when it comes to building because its too good not to take. 

Really? Arcane is the traitline I actually probably use the least. Air has Fresh Air and faster glyph recharge, Water has aurasharing (or shrug off conditions), Earth has a lot of damage reduction and free signet use, and fire, well, boosts a lot of things. Arcane has a couple of good support effects, but outside of that, of late it's generally felt to me like it was the traitline you took as a filler when you weren't specifically looking for something from one of the others.

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

8 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Really? Arcane is the traitline I actually probably use the least. Air has Fresh Air and faster glyph recharge, Water has aurasharing (or shrug off conditions), Earth has a lot of damage reduction and free signet use, and fire, well, boosts a lot of things. Arcane has a couple of good support effects, but outside of that, of late it's generally felt to me like it was the traitline you took as a filler when you weren't specifically looking for something from one of the others.

 

It all depends of your gameplay and your e-spec. But Boons > everything. Boons are too strong in all game modes and gameplay to no rely on.
For tempest it is negligible as you have a better medium for boons in the specs with auras, new sources of switfness, vigor, protection, might... plus fresh air and camping fire with tempest are strong enough gameplay.  But for core and weaver arcane is incredible; 4seconds of protection (with  7~8.5sec CD, less with weaveself or unravel) and regen switness, fury, mights, vigor (+synergies arround)+ cleanse and fire/blast or sources of immob, source of weakness ...

Same with catalyst as it shits boons and "celestial" buffs.

[AliamRationem.5172]

54 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Really? Arcane is the traitline I actually probably use the least. Air has Fresh Air and faster glyph recharge, Water has aurasharing (or shrug off conditions), Earth has a lot of damage reduction and free signet use, and fire, well, boosts a lot of things. Arcane has a couple of good support effects, but outside of that, of late it's generally felt to me like it was the traitline you took as a filler when you weren't specifically looking for something from one of the others.

Well, part of the issue is the lack of synergy between other trait lines.  When you speak of "filler" that's what you mean.  For a lot of builds you could run, arcane ends up being a good second (or third, if core) option.

[KeoLegend.5132]

On 4/4/2022 at 11:32 PM, Kozumi.5816 said:

Just to name a few: Reaper, Catalyst, and Harbringer, all feel fine without alac.

And Dragonhunter

[draxynnic.3719]

19 minutes ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

 

It all depends of your gameplay and your e-spec. But Boons > everything. Boons are too strong in all game modes and gameplay to no rely on.
For tempest it is negligible as you have a better medium for boons in the specs with auras, new sources of switfness, vigor, protection, might... plus fresh air and camping fire with tempest are strong enough gameplay.  But for core and weaver arcane is incredible; 4seconds of protection (with  7~8.5sec CD, less with weaveself or unravel) and regen switness, fury, mights, vigor (+synergies arround)+ cleanse and fire/blast or sources of immob, source of weakness ...

Same with catalyst as it shits boons and "celestial" buffs.

Yeah, that's probably the reason: I've mostly played tempest and, of late, some light experimentation with Catalyst. I think I have used Arcane with weaver, but hey, fire, air, and earth are all pretty tempting. Heck, I think I even made a fire/water weaver at some point... I think the motivation was related to being able to get rid of conditions quickly.

[Puck.3697]

9 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Really? Arcane is the traitline I actually probably use the least. Air has Fresh Air and faster glyph recharge, Water has aurasharing (or shrug off conditions), Earth has a lot of damage reduction and free signet use, and fire, well, boosts a lot of things. Arcane has a couple of good support effects, but outside of that, of late it's generally felt to me like it was the traitline you took as a filler when you weren't specifically looking for something from one of the others.

Guessing you don't PvP alot with ele then? It's basically the staple of every build in competitive modes. 

Used alot less in PvE builds however. 

I would pressume he's talking PvP as I rly can't think of anywhere it has a strong dependency on arcane in. Except maybe high  solo builds

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

On 4/7/2022 at 6:15 AM, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

Instead, it has traits that buff it significantly.  I.E. Weaver's Prowess is a 10% damage 20% duration boost, which is one of the highest I've seen in any profession, and ultimately it proves that the conditions on weaver are underpowered if such a strong trait just makes weaver mediocre. 

 

👍 Plus the ease to loop it just by the class mechanic and the fact it is not even grandmaster despite the huge numbers, it makes it hard to believe this trait is anything else but last minute panic change on weaver to make up for DPS.

Other classes like rev, engie would have this trait split into 2 or 3.
And you still need pyrovortex + flamewall + transmute fire + glyph of EP/storms + signet of fire + primordial stance +weaveself (Another buff of +20% CONDI DAMAGE) to compete with scourge spamming bip + f5 at 900 range while earning -15% incoming damage, barriers and condi cleanse ..

 

Weaver, and core, should really get back its power base, coef and condi duration up, with tweaks in traits to lower impact directly on numbers rather than gameplay, and allow sustain traits.

 

[Puck.3697]

1 hour ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

 

👍 Plus the ease to loop it just by the class mechanic and the fact it is not even grandmaster despite the huge numbers, it makes it hard to believe this trait is anything else but last minute panic change on weaver to make up for DPS.

Other classes like rev, engie would have this trait split into 2 or 3.
And you still need pyrovortex + flamewall + transmute fire + glyph of EP/storms + signet of fire + primordial stance +weaveself (Another buff of +20% CONDI DAMAGE) to compete with scourge spamming bip + f5 at 900 range while earning -15% incoming damage, barriers and condi cleanse ..

 

Weaver, and core, should really get back its power base, coef and condi duration up, with tweaks in traits to lower impact directly on numbers rather than gameplay, and allow sustain traits.

 

While I agree, weaver needs to do 40/41k DPS equal to virtuoso I don't think it will fix the overall issue. 

I doubt it's gonna fix anything. 99% of the playerbase will never achieve optimal numbers with weaver, even when weaver was meta in fractal set ups. Players were still stating the speccs underpowered. 

The proffession is just too complex for the vast majority of this games playerbase 

 

  

[Jski.6180]

16 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Tbh grieving held lot of potiental for ele, the issue is we need to see traits which allows power to bolster Condi and Condi to bolster power to create this affect imho. 

Hybrid weaver feels so good to play. Anet seem so fixed on boxing it as a power or Condi build tho it misses the mark 

For condi to realty work you need to have means of dealing with counter condis or ways to buy time for my condi to tick dmg. Ele is missing these effects. That why i suggest giving weaver boon strip. It would let weaver fill that full on dps roll with some means of countering boon bunker something weaver should eat alive.

[Ruisen.9471]

On 4/7/2022 at 7:58 AM, Daddy.8125 said:

I know, was a weird move on Anets part. It's annoying that every other proffession gets ranged abilities and melee abilities as viable options but eles fall short here. 

 

This is probably a controversial opinion, but I'm glad staff Weaver is dead.

Staff weaver was absolutely horrid to play in raiding.   You lose a huge amount of DPS if the boss moved, you had really restricted mobility because Icebow 4, Meteor shower, (and FGS 4 to a lesser extent since it makes you immobile during animation) required you to be stationary, and the rotation is much longer then the current Power sword weaver rotation.   You were also reliant on huge hitbox, which rarely exists. 

Sword weaver pretty much doesn't have any of these problems.

They could increase actual ele DPS to be closer to benchmarks if they halved conjured weapon CD and remove the second one that you place on the ground.   The one you place on the ground always gets lost anyway.

Edited April 9, 2022 by Ruisen.9471

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

6 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

While I agree, weaver needs to do 40/41k DPS equal to virtuoso I don't think it will fix the overall issue. 

I doubt it's gonna fix anything. 99% of the playerbase will never achieve optimal numbers with weaver, even when weaver was meta in fractal set ups. Players were still stating the speccs underpowered. 

The proffession is just too complex for the vast majority of this games playerbase 

 

  

 A lot of classes have complex rotation or complex understanding on their mechanics.

 

On contrary elem is simple : you have no option,  and no sustain.
DPS is split into so many skills, so many traits, and yet it will still punish you if you don't take one. Because, no matter you're condi or power, in group, against one encounter or lot of adds, ... no matter the situation, you have no  other option and they're too big to be neglected.

 

Fire is a good example.

Persisting flame is the trait for both condi and power, even support tempest. But you're in a group and struggle to cap 25 mights, you think Pyromancer's training could help you and your group ? Aaaaaaaaaand you're so wrong, this trait won't even grant enough might to the group and the "dps compensation" is trash, go back to persisting flame.

You have some option in Air, but ... you don't really see it anyway. And that's all.

 

You're weaver, your uber elitists allies mistake "No healer" with "No sustain at all" and you would like to switch an utility skill for Stone resonance, or Weaver's prowess for Bolstered Elements ? Wrong again ! You've just lost at least 3k dps and barriers are too weaks or with too long CD anyway, you still better want to burst and die miserably.

 

Wait ... wait ... OMG you've just switched to water and use riptide ? I really hope you have fresh air or alacrity, because you've just lost 4 sec of Elemental Polyphony, Empowering flame or aeromancer's training, Element's of rage (unless you doubble attune to water??) a Sunspot in rotation, the ability to use GoEP/Storm, or Primordial stance ... I hope your 1.5k healing was worth it.

 

I just don't get how Developpers can't see this.

You read Weaver's prowess, you read the other traits in Master, it's too big to not see the issue.
You try 1 minute Pyromancer's puissance, you should see instantly it's garbage and the prevalence of persisting flame

But no, they debate if burning on skills should be 1.4785 sec or 2*0.7587sec. Or they buff barrier on dual attacks ... wow +20% on a 450 barrier every 7sec ... wow ... thank you so much Anet. Too much sustain in one update.

Edited April 9, 2022 by Zhaid Zhem.6508