Untamed

[NuggetScout.3782]

More like #unplayed.

 

Any chance on this class getting updated? or are we gonna get five more fishing rod skins in the gem store before they do that?

[Mell.4873]

53 minutes ago, NuggetScout.3782 said:

More like #unplayed.

 

Any chance on this class getting updated? or are we gonna get five more fishing rod skins in the gem store before they do that?

They are trying to hard to make it a brawler, they just need to rework the traits and give it 3 clear playstyles rather than trying to make the bunny thumper thing that will never happen. 

I mean barrior is cantrips make 0 sense for PvE just remove it and replace it will lower cooldown and an extra effect. Cleansing unleash again same problem, a bit useless PvE, just merge it with corrupting Vines and replace it. The 3% damage increase from ferocious symbiosis should count for condition aswell (unless it does already) 

[BumboJumbo.1308]

I understand frustration and anger from people about untamed but... 

Anet have already stated spirits are getting revamped into a more boon support role:

"...we’re going to rework banners and spirits to fit our shared boon system and open new options for warrior and ranger players. Both professions will have access to new boon support roles using revamped banners, spirits, and related traits."

From - https://www.guildwars2.com/en-gb/news/guild-wars-2-end-of-dragons-strike-missions-balance-and-rewards/

This spirit revamp, which comes in 2 months, gives untamed a role in regards to being a damage/boon support (given that fervant force exists).

[Mell.4873]

On 4/9/2022 at 3:33 PM, BumboJumbo.1308 said:

I understand frustration and anger from people about untamed but... 

Anet have already stated spirits are getting revamped into a more boon support role:

"...we’re going to rework banners and spirits to fit our shared boon system and open new options for warrior and ranger players. Both professions will have access to new boon support roles using revamped banners, spirits, and related traits."

From - https://www.guildwars2.com/en-gb/news/guild-wars-2-end-of-dragons-strike-missions-balance-and-rewards/

This spirit revamp, which comes in 2 months, gives untamed a role in regards to being a damage/boon support (given that fervant force exists).

Wouldn't both Druid and Soulbeast also be able to boon share even better since one has heals and the other 66% boon duration stance what advantage would untamed have over the other two elites?

Edited April 17, 2022 by Mell.4873

[BumboJumbo.1308]

41 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

Wouldn't both Druid and Soulbeast also be able to boon share even better since one has a heals and the other 66% boon duration stance what advantage would untamed have over the other two elites?

Well we don't know how the spirits are going to function. Is it going to pulse or be an initial type boon? How long are the baseline durations of the boon/s? What's the cooldown for the spirits?

I believe once we know those questions we can then see what elite specs can make the most usage of the revamped spirits. In any case, no matter the cooldown, untamed could be effective from 'spamming of boons' perspective. But how effective will it be compared to druid who can have 100% boon duration? I don't know.

In the case of soul beast, why would you give up your damaging utility just to get moa stance and a spirit? I would think a niche situation where the team is missing out on a specific boon, then sure take moa stance and a spirit. 

All this being said: we don't know how anet will balance the revamped spirits.

[Beddo.1907]

4 minutes ago, BumboJumbo.1308 said:

Well we don't know how the spirits are going to function. Is it going to pulse or be an initial type boon? How long are the baseline durations of the boon/s? What's the cooldown for the spirits?

I believe once we know those questions we can then see what elite specs can make the most usage of the revamped spirits. In any case, no matter the cooldown, untamed could be effective from 'spamming of boons' perspective. But how effective will it be compared to druid who can have 100% boon duration? I don't know.

In the case of soul beast, why would you give up your damaging utility just to get moa stance and a spirit? I would think a niche situation where the team is missing out on a specific boon, then sure take moa stance and a spirit. 

All this being said: we don't know how anet will balance the revamped spirits.

No matter how they revamp spirits, Druid and Soulbeast still give more team value than untamed.

Untamed brings nothing comparable to Druid boons+healing and Soulbeast dps+OWP.

[BumboJumbo.1308]

13 minutes ago, Beddo.1907 said:

No matter how they revamp spirits, Druid and Soulbeast still give more team value than untamed.

Untamed brings nothing comparable to Druid boons+healing and Soulbeast dps+OWP.

I guess we wait and see.

[Cytoplasma.8216]

9 hours ago, NuggetScout.3782 said:

More like #unplayed.

 

Any chance on this class getting updated? or are we gonna get five more fishing rod skins in the gem store before they do that?

Did you buy EoD?
Do you think it's important to Arena that you can play with what you want?
You miscalculated - as did most of us.

The cash for Arena is correct. Ignore the rest

[HnRkLnXqZ.1870]

On the one hand, I have a lot of fun with this class. First ranger I can play without getting bored within minutes. I run no hammer (only GS+dual Axe), camp one of the two modes and do not use any of the cantrips. Not using the intended weapon is OK, not using the profession mechanic is weird and not using any of the skills is horrible. All three in combination is a desaster. I enjoy playing it. But I do not really want to participate in any open-world group activity, as it provides 0 support and deals mindblowing low damage. Even trash-mobs take an enternity to kill.  It is extremely difficult to kill, but that is the only thing it is good at.

It is sad. So much wasted potential.  

[Dadnir.5038]

To be fair, I find that the real issue with Untamed is that the hammer don't have any disabling effect when unleashed.

[Demirincar.4103]

I'm loving Untamed at the moment. So much more survivable than Soulbeast. I've been able to survive the entire battle without being downed once in metas like Dragon's End, Seitung Province and Drakkar where 90% of the squad is dead or downed by the end. The only other profession I've been able to achieve that feat on is my main, Reaper. Running GS/dual axes, like HnRkLnXqZ I camp Unleashed Ranger and only Unleash Pet during phases where I'm taking heavy ambient damage and every once in a while to spam the F1 F3 F2 unleashed pet skill combo then back to Unleash Ranger for the ambush massive heal and cleave.

Definitely more fun than Soulbeast, the unleashed mechanic is situational and you have to learn when to switch modes to adapt to the fight. The merge pet mechanic on Soulbeast was unplayable for me; the moment I merge pet, every mob in the general vicinity instantly focuses damage on me and I get instant downed. So I ended up never merging with pet and Soulbeast just felt like a heavily kitten core ranger.

 

[Mell.4873]

On 4/9/2022 at 7:37 PM, BumboJumbo.1308 said:

Well we don't know how the spirits are going to function. Is it going to pulse or be an initial type boon? How long are the baseline durations of the boon/s? What's the cooldown for the spirits?

I believe once we know those questions we can then see what elite specs can make the most usage of the revamped spirits. In any case, no matter the cooldown, untamed could be effective from 'spamming of boons' perspective. But how effective will it be compared to druid who can have 100% boon duration? I don't know.

In the case of soul beast, why would you give up your damaging utility just to get moa stance and a spirit? I would think a niche situation where the team is missing out on a specific boon, then sure take moa stance and a spirit. 

All this being said: we don't know how anet will balance the revamped spirits.

They pulse alacrity, so we have alacrity healer druid and almost every boon available on soulbeast. 

Edited April 17, 2022 by Mell.4873

[Mell.4873]

1 hour ago, Demirincar.4103 said:

I'm loving Untamed at the moment. So much more survivable than Soulbeast. I've been able to survive the entire battle without being downed once in metas like Dragon's End, Seitung Province and Drakkar where 90% of the squad is dead or downed by the end. The only other profession I've been able to achieve that feat on is my main, Reaper. Running GS/dual axes, like HnRkLnXqZ I camp Unleashed Ranger and only Unleash Pet during phases where I'm taking heavy ambient damage and every once in a while to spam the F1 F3 F2 unleashed pet skill combo then back to Unleash Ranger for the ambush massive heal and cleave.

Definitely more fun than Soulbeast, the unleashed mechanic is situational and you have to learn when to switch modes to adapt to the fight. The merge pet mechanic on Soulbeast was unplayable for me; the moment I merge pet, every mob in the general vicinity instantly focuses damage on me and I get instant downed. So I ended up never merging with pet and Soulbeast just felt like a heavily kitten core ranger.

 

Yeah that's how I feel, Soulbeast is the Virtuoso/Holosmith of Ranger since you need the support from other players.

[kharmin.7683]

On 4/8/2022 at 7:04 PM, NuggetScout.3782 said:

More like #unplayed.

 

 

In what format?  I main ranger (and have for years) and am enjoying this spec quite a lot in OWPvE.  I've seen a number of other untamed specs running around, too.

16 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

To be fair, I find that the real issue with Untamed is that the hammer don't have any disabling effect when unleashed.

I don't disagree, but I was against the whole bunny thumper concept from before it was announced.  I don't even use hammer on my untamed and I have not really had any issues completing content in OWPvE.  /shrug

[Dadnir.5038]

1 hour ago, kharmin.7683 said:

I don't disagree, but I was against the whole bunny thumper concept from before it was announced.  I don't even use hammer on my untamed and I have not really had any issues completing content in OWPvE.  /shrug

I wasn't for the bunny thumper thing either. And, anyway, it can't work in this game. It's just that the unleashed stance would be much more effective with in built CC in the hammer skillset than it already is.

[Cytoplasma.8216]

13 hours ago, Demirincar.4103 said:

I'm loving Untamed at the moment. So much more survivable than Soulbeast. I've been able to survive the entire battle without being downed once in metas like Dragon's End, Seitung Province and Drakkar where 90% of the squad is dead or downed by the end. The only other profession I've been able to achieve that feat on is my main, Reaper. Running GS/dual axes, like HnRkLnXqZ I camp Unleashed Ranger and only Unleash Pet during phases where I'm taking heavy ambient damage and every once in a while to spam the F1 F3 F2 unleashed pet skill combo then back to Unleash Ranger for the ambush massive heal and cleav

Yeah and you DMG is imposibble low and nothing bring to group - cool. 

And u surrived only because u have lots of boons from other players

Edited April 10, 2022 by Cytoplasma.8216

[Cytoplasma.8216]

5 hours ago, kharmin.7683 said:

I've seen a number of other untamed specs running around, too.

Seriously? On fractals ? Raids ? Strike ? Or meybe on open world ? Lol. 

Just get in wing2man

Nobody plays unplayed in pve. 

Edited April 10, 2022 by Cytoplasma.8216

[Demirincar.4103]

40 minutes ago, Cytoplasma.8216 said:

Yeah and you DMG is imposibble low and nothing bring to group - cool. 

Better than being downed/dead 75% of the fight and contributing nothing not even damage like 90% of other specs. On Untamed you do have to set up your bursts more strictly to coincide with all the damage bonuses from traits. I've seen my Mauls hit for 40k crits on bosses. And Whirling Defense can do upwards of more than 100k dmg (as long as the boss stays in the aoe and doesn't move around lol).

So far on Untamed I've successfully completed the 3 easy EoD strikes (except Harvest Temple), T1 fractals (haven't tried beyond that coz I don't have AR on my Untamed and I'm saving up for a gen 3 legendary so I can't afford to waste gold on agony infusions), the harder meta events where 90% of people tend to get downed multiple times like Drakkar, Dragon's End, Seitung Province, Dragonstorm. All with minimal difficulty. Perilous Gift is an incredibly powerful heal that let me cheat death and quickly recover so many times.

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

On 4/8/2022 at 11:33 PM, BumboJumbo.1308 said:

I understand frustration and anger from people about untamed but... 

Anet have already stated spirits are getting revamped into a more boon support role:

"...we’re going to rework banners and spirits to fit our shared boon system and open new options for warrior and ranger players. Both professions will have access to new boon support roles using revamped banners, spirits, and related traits."

From - https://www.guildwars2.com/en-gb/news/guild-wars-2-end-of-dragons-strike-missions-balance-and-rewards/

This spirit revamp, which comes in 2 months, gives untamed a role in regards to being a damage/boon support (given that fervant force exists).

This is a core utility. Not an untamed specific utility, a core utility. Regardless of what they do to them, they will ALWAYS be better on druid, as untamed is a DPS-centric spec, not a heal support or boon support one. Druid compresses the roles, untamed does pitiful DPS. It took Hardstuck ages to do an Untamed DE run. Core pets (most of the pets that could be doing boon support) do not have good enough boons to give untamed a boon DPS role. Expansion pets are only good for damage or good for nothing.

 

Do not assume that untamed will magically get better once spirits get reworked.

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

8 hours ago, Demirincar.4103 said:

Better than being downed/dead 75% of the fight and contributing nothing not even damage like 90% of other specs. On Untamed you do have to set up your bursts more strictly to coincide with all the damage bonuses from traits. I've seen my Mauls hit for 40k crits on bosses. And Whirling Defense can do upwards of more than 100k dmg (as long as the boss stays in the aoe and doesn't move around lol).

So far on Untamed I've successfully completed the 3 easy EoD strikes (except Harvest Temple), T1 fractals (haven't tried beyond that coz I don't have AR on my Untamed and I'm saving up for a gen 3 legendary so I can't afford to waste gold on agony infusions), the harder meta events where 90% of people tend to get downed multiple times like Drakkar, Dragon's End, Seitung Province, Dragonstorm. All with minimal difficulty. Perilous Gift is an incredibly powerful heal that let me cheat death and quickly recover so many times.

I think you're thinking of soulbeast with those crits and bursts... and even then with soulbeast, full boons, it's incredibly rare to get a crit maul for 40k. That's half of a good burn on Keep Construct with Whirling Defense, which does 80-90k for the full skill while KC is vulnerable. Either you're inflating your numbers or you're confused.

[Demirincar.4103]

7 minutes ago, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

I think you're thinking of soulbeast with those crits and bursts... and even then with soulbeast, full boons, it's incredibly rare to get a crit maul for 40k. That's half of a good burn on Keep Construct with Whirling Defense, which does 80-90k for the full skill while KC is vulnerable. Either you're inflating your numbers or you're confused.

Granted, I didn't play Soulbeast much after I was done gearing and setting that spec up but from what I remember I've never been able to get even close to 40k Mauls on Soulbeast. Most of the time you're just trying to use your skills and utilities in the correct order to stack, refresh and prolong boon duration on you and your pet that it leaves little room for dodging mechanics let alone actually using your big damage skills effectively. And the moment you merge pet every hostile mob instantly switches focus to you and you just get instantly downed so you basically do zero damage anyway. Is a single 60k Wordly Impact worth being dead for the remaining duration of the fight or a quick trip back to waypoint? It's nice that Soulbeast can theoretically achieve higher numbers on a stationary training dummy that doesn't fight back and you don't have to worry about screenwide aoe circles or adds but for practical use, I find Untamed does way more overall damage in actual fight scenarios due to much higher survivability and your burst windows are very frequent (even more so if you use a hammer and Fervent Force) and they don't leave you vulnerable for several seconds at a time like on Soulbeast.

[Phazon.3975]

I've been using Untamed for PvE mostly because it actually makes Longbow a fun and decent DPS range weapon thanks to the damage modifiers, perma-quickness , and how amazing Multishot is and while keeping the pet meatshield. However Untamed just feels like Core Ranger Deluxe; Core with more buttons/damage but not a subclass feel like Druid or Soulbeast. And since it relies on your pet, Ranger still suffers from pets being nothing but meatshields and how unbalanced pets are. We have the "on paper glass cannon" pets (new addition Pheonix) that get 2-shotted by champions that still do less damage than the much tankier Jacaranda, Bristleback, etc. And Jacaranda isn't even overpowered, it's just one of the few pets actually worth using. Just a handful of pets are decent.

 

Now that Untamed is the new pet spec for ranger, it's time for a pet overhaul. I'm not asking for Ranger pets to be as good as a Mechanist's Golem, but the average unbuffed ranger pet does about 500-700 dps and that's just laughable. Buff and balance them to where I can actually say "I use birds/moas/spiders because X" instead of "lol Jacaranda or bust".

 

 

[Nephalem.8921]

1 hour ago, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

I think you're thinking of soulbeast with those crits and bursts... and even then with soulbeast, full boons, it's incredibly rare to get a crit maul for 40k. That's half of a good burn on Keep Construct with Whirling Defense, which does 80-90k for the full skill while KC is vulnerable. Either you're inflating your numbers or you're confused.

Whirling defense hits for 110k on the slb raid build. Maul should crit for 30k. Untamed completely misses one wolf pack which hits for 400k now.

Whirling defense hits for 230k into 1orb kc exposed. 40k maul should not be possible on untamed unless the boss has a burn phase going and takes increased damage. its very much possible on slb into exposed. If you hit for just 90k into kc exposed you are doing something terribly wrong.

1 hour ago, Demirincar.4103 said:

Granted, I didn't play Soulbeast much after I was done gearing and setting that spec up but from what I remember I've never been able to get even close to 40k Mauls on Soulbeast. Most of the time you're just trying to use your skills and utilities in the correct order to stack, refresh and prolong boon duration on you and your pet that it leaves little room for dodging mechanics let alone actually using your big damage skills effectively. And the moment you merge pet every hostile mob instantly switches focus to you and you just get instantly downed so you basically do zero damage anyway. Is a single 60k Wordly Impact worth being dead for the remaining duration of the fight or a quick trip back to waypoint? It's nice that Soulbeast can theoretically achieve higher numbers on a stationary training dummy that doesn't fight back and you don't have to worry about screenwide aoe circles or adds but for practical use, I find Untamed does way more overall damage in actual fight scenarios due to much higher survivability and your burst windows are very frequent (even more so if you use a hammer and Fervent Force) and they don't leave you vulnerable for several seconds at a time like on Soulbeast.

This might be the old bearbow problem. most specs dont even have a pet and are doing fine in pve. As a slb in pve you should be merged 100% of the time anyways. Arc shows that untamed does very low damage in meta events.

Slb has a lot of tools to stay alive. merge with smokescale gives you an extra evade. Lifeleech on poison application. together with vulture stance adds very strong sustain. 

 

[BumboJumbo.1308]

4 hours ago, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

This is a core utility. Not an untamed specific utility, a core utility. Regardless of what they do to them, they will ALWAYS be better on druid, as untamed is a DPS-centric spec, not a heal support or boon support one. Druid compresses the roles, untamed does pitiful DPS. It took Hardstuck ages to do an Untamed DE run. Core pets (most of the pets that could be doing boon support) do not have good enough boons to give untamed a boon DPS role. Expansion pets are only good for damage or good for nothing.

 

Do not assume that untamed will magically get better once spirits get reworked.

Whether something is core utility or not doesn't mean that only 1 subclass can make use of that core utility.

Maybe the spirit revamp does make druid better for spirits that doesn't mean that untamed can't make use of spirits.

Yes untamed has meh dps. Yes it has bad support. That doesn't mean that changes can't happen to dps and support. Anet is giving rangers access to boon support roles.

Also, for core pets I don't think looking at them with the lens of damage makes much sense considering all but iboga don't do that much dps. Personally I see pets as utility in regards to crowd control, maybe even a few boons.

I believe that it can be assumed that spirits will make untamed better. Will it make it meta? Who knows. Will untamed have a use? Yes, through boons, utility, crowd control, and damage (despite it being low).

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

8 hours ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

Whirling defense hits for 110k on the slb raid build. Maul should crit for 30k. Untamed completely misses one wolf pack which hits for 400k now.

Whirling defense hits for 230k into 1orb kc exposed. 40k maul should not be possible on untamed unless the boss has a burn phase going and takes increased damage. its very much possible on slb into exposed. If you hit for just 90k into kc exposed you are doing something terribly wrong.

 

In full exotic, meta food/utility buffs, runes, and sigils, I hit for 80-90k when on a KC burn phase with whirling defense alone. But, that's not the point- Untamed cannot and will not ever replace soulbeast, as it misses things like OWP like you said.