Alternative path for PVE Legendary Armor

[Vayne.8563]

24 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Nope, there were always rewards limited to some content.

Also "you shouldn't have changed the game!" removes the possibility of ading new content to any game ever. You want a stagnant game, but the stagnant mmo dies faster than you paying it less because you don't get easy rewards you wanted by replaying the same part of the game and nothing else.

 

You write "it would be a fair comment", but I don't see anything unfair there. If you think something's unfair in what I said, please point exactly what it is.

But you're still here. And those players are still here. On the other hand, core managed to lose a bunch without "changing itself". What you're saying above is either dishonest or is written without looking at the reality, solely for the sake of pretending that "what you want is better" when it's not and there's no reason to claim otherwise based on what you just wrote.

(PoF in no way is "anti-HoT")

Ok. Be REALLY specific. Which part of my post is this responding to? Why are you telling me "noone knows" when you've just tried using an argument of "changing the game = losing the players"? It's like you're explaining to yourself that your just used argument is false, because you're basically playing a guessing game based on your own wishful thinking (again. And I don't see you providing any source for your previous post's "wishful thinking" -is your plan here to produce as many baseless claims as you can and then drop the request for explanation/source until maybe something will stick? Or what is this exactly trying to achieve?)

And yet people keep playing the game. You're not speaking for anyone, so stop making these weird basless absolute claims, just because a few players on this forum keep consistently pretending that they deserve getting any reward they want for replaying any old content they already are replaying. This is really not how any of this works.

It's not "basic human nature", from what I know, it's called something else. One way or another, because you still consistently skip it, after pretending in your previous post "it's not about that", when it clearly is: you can play whatever content you want in this game without having legendary gear. You make your own choices and you don't somehow deserve any/every reward by default. This is normal in games -this or any other.

 

"I have accepted the raid part, but not that there are 3 paths to legenadry armor: one for PVE, one for PVP and one for WvW... now it's NOT OK!"

Right.

And then again, to reiterate what I wrote in my previous post, since you've cleared out the moment since when you're paying less: But you'll spend less money than you used to... when exactly? When the PvP legendary armor was released? Then it seems you're already spending "less than you used to" for much longer time than you didn't.

It seems the game will live exactly the same it did for the past 5(?) years. But wait! You're saying that you're happy playing the game, but when someone cries about legendary armor on the forum, you suddenly... have less fun ingame, because I guess for that brief moment it becomes an absolute necessity for you, despite you knowing perfectly well (based on your post/pre/between-legendary-thread-playtime) you actually can play whatever you want and enjoy the game without that one specific reward? Oof.

I'm not speaking for anyone?  I'm speaking for me. I'm someone. Now if you think out of a million players I"m the only one who feels this way, well that's okay. You'd likely be wrong but it wouldn't be the first time.

On the other hand, we KNOW that casual people left in droves over HOT. We KNOW the playerbase is overwhelmingly casual. Every time Anet tries to get the casual playerbase into harder content they get a few through but they also lose that many players more. 

 

As for saying not to make new content, that's bullkitten. I'm saying have multiple paths to the reward for PvE'ers not not to  add raids. This is a strawman argument.

 

Sorry but you're so attached to preserving the rewards you like you're ignoring the bulk of the population of the game and then claiming I'm not talking for anyone.  Moreso, when WvWers complained that they couldn't unlock elite specs without going into PvE, they got currency to unlock those elite specs without ever setting foot in PvE.  PvPers get that automatically. And that only takes an couple of hours. 

The precedent is already in the game. Anet knows it. They could change it. And if it makes you unhappy and makes me happy I have every right to ask for it. It's not entitled. And I'm not wrong just because you disagree.  Shrugs.

[Sobx.1758]

7 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

I'm not speaking for anyone?  I'm speaking for me. I'm someone. Now if you think out of a million players I"m the only one who feels this way, well that's okay. You'd likely be wrong but it wouldn't be the first time.

On the other hand, we KNOW that casual people left in droves over HOT. We KNOW the playerbase is overwhelmingly casual. Every time Anet tries to get the casual playerbase into harder content they get a few through but they also lose that many players more. 

 

As for saying not to make new content, that's bullkitten. I'm saying have multiple paths to the reward for PvE'ers not not to  add raids. This is a strawman argument.

 

Sorry but you're so attached to preserving the rewards you like you're ignoring the bulk of the population of the game and then claiming I'm not talking for anyone.  Moreso, when WvWers complained that they couldn't unlock elite specs without going into PvE, they got currency to unlock those elite specs without ever setting foot in PvE.  PvPers get that automatically. And that only takes an couple of hours. 

The precedent is already in the game. Anet knows it. They could change it. And if it makes you unhappy and makes me happy I have every right to ask for it. It's not entitled. And I'm not wrong just because you disagree.  Shrugs.

So again you've dropped most of the things I wrote, including another request for clarification/source of your claims throughout your last posts. It's clear what you're doing here: exactly what I wrote in the post you've just quoted. Sorry, I'm not interested in this one sided discussion where I'm trying to respond to what you said and then you dodge most of what you probably see as inconvenient in order to keep your narrative no matter what.

Spoiler

And I don't see you providing any source for your previous post's "wishful thinking" -is your plan here to produce as many baseless claims as you can and then drop the request for explanation/source until maybe something will stick?

Edited April 14, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

10 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Nope, there were always rewards limited to some content.

Also "you shouldn't have changed the game!" removes the possibility of ading new content to any game ever. You want a stagnant game, but the stagnant mmo dies faster than you paying it less because you don't get easy rewards you wanted by replaying the same part of the game and nothing else.

 

You write "it would be a fair comment", but I don't see anything unfair there. If you think something's unfair in what I said, please point exactly what it is.

But you're still here. And those players are still here. On the other hand, core managed to lose a bunch without "changing itself". What you're saying above is either dishonest or is written without looking at the reality, solely for the sake of pretending that "what you want is better" when it's not and there's no reason to claim otherwise based on what you just wrote.

(PoF in no way is "anti-HoT")

Ok. Be REALLY specific. Which part of my post is this responding to? Why are you telling me "noone knows" when you've just tried using an argument of "changing the game = losing the players"? It's like you're explaining to yourself that your just used argument is false, because you're basically playing a guessing game based on your own wishful thinking (again. And I don't see you providing any source for your previous post's "wishful thinking" -is your plan here to produce as many baseless claims as you can and then drop the request for explanation/source until maybe something will stick? Or what is this exactly trying to achieve?)

And yet people keep playing the game. You're not speaking for anyone else, so stop making these weird basless absolute claims, just because a few players on this forum keep consistently pretending that they deserve getting any reward they want for replaying any old content they already are replaying. This is really not how any of this works.

It's not "basic human nature", from what I know, it's called something else. One way or another, because you still consistently skip it, after pretending in your previous post "it's not about that", when it clearly is: you can play whatever content you want in this game without having legendary gear. You make your own choices and you don't somehow deserve any/every reward by default. This is normal in games -this or any other.

 

"I have accepted the raid part, but not that there are 3 paths to legenadry armor: one for PVE, one for PVP and one for WvW... now it's NOT OK!"

Right.

And then again, to reiterate what I wrote in my previous post, since you've cleared out the moment since when you're paying less: But you'll spend less money than you used to... when exactly? When the PvP legendary armor was released? Then it seems you're already spending "less than you used to" for much longer time than you didn't.

It seems the game will live exactly the same it did for the past 5(?) years. But wait! You're saying that you're happy playing the game, but when someone cries about legendary armor on the forum, you suddenly... have less fun ingame, because I guess for that brief moment it becomes an absolute necessity for you, despite you knowing perfectly well (based on your post/pre/between-legendary-thread-playtime) you actually can play whatever you want and enjoy the game without that one specific reward? Oof.

So by offering Legendary gear in the open world , it makes the game more stagnant  and the game will die?

Just like by removing the 3 daily Coins killed the whole Fractals community ?

Edited April 14, 2022 by Killthehealersffs.8940

[Sobx.1758]

2 minutes ago, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

So by offering Legendary gear in the open world , it makes the game more stagnant  and the game will die?

Just like by removing the 3 daily Coins killed the whole Fractals community ?

That is not what I wrote at all.

Also last time we had a talk about it in "instanced content", you've ended up repeating "just give me the reward". I'll pass this time.

Edited April 14, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

10 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Last time we had a talk about it in "instanced content", you've ended up repeating "just give me the reward". I'll pass this time.

Yes , because you are simply doing the same ... as i do ....

We doing rhetoric questions and rather than answering we go in the offensive ...

 

Focusing to create in this expansion more people to LIKE  instance content and not FORCE them to go nownownownow in CM or Raids must be a goal , so more CM/Strikes must be created ....

It doesn't mean that forcing them to do in HoT Raids and get the Legendary Set , will "fall in love with hardcore stuff"..

[Fuchslein.8639]

14 hours ago, Albi.7250 said:

I need some source for that besides your word, cause I have a hard time believing that.

 

First of all i do not want it to "cost double then an exotic" that came from someone else. I made clear in my post a Explorer-like Progression would be a nice way to go about it. Also i wouldn't necessarily get that Explorer-set I purposed. I already own legendary armor for one weight and have not need for it. I personally want ascended stats on my build if i can help it. I just thought giving casual player the ability to stat swap with a reduced grind, at the cost of stats seemed like a neat compromised.

I have no source of it, how could i? Have you a Sourcecode that i'm not right?

I only have my experience. I raided a lot over the years and the gear was the last thing people looked about. I raided mostly with people who where not so good at the game, so asc was never an option for many people. I createt this second account about a year ago and craftet my second legendary mainly via my engie main which is to this day fully exo, expect the jewelery. My mirage was only asc, because it is cheaper crafting viper for asc than it is for exo.

 

And sorry, than i misunderstood this. I didn't read everything here, because it's just to much. The same people who say the same things oer and over again xx.

It's nice thinking, but it's also unfair thinking in my eyes. Anet shouldn't make something so easy just because the same people complain over and over again. 

A fair way would probably not be a problem for most. But that would have to be more than the way the legy amulet from the lw did go.

What's funny is how people who try to find fair methods are downvoted here, ignored or denied. Which clearly shows what most people here really want uu. 

[Sobx.1758]

1 minute ago, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

Yes , because you are simply doing the same ... as i do ....

Point exactly where or stop lying.

You've tried doing the same thing in the last thread I wrote about above. Spoiler alert: you didn't point at anything.

 

Anyways, I said I'll pass and you're already doing the exact same thing you did before, so now I actually really pass 🙋‍♂️

Edited April 14, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Vayne.8563]

13 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

So again you've dropped most of the things I wrote, including another request for clarification/source of your claims throughout your last posts. It's clear what you're doing here: exactly what I wrote in the post you've just quoted. Sorry, I'm not interested in this one sided discussion where I'm trying to respond to what you said and then you dodge most of what you probably see as inconvenient in order to keep your narrative no matter what.

  Reveal hidden contents

And I don't see you providing any source for your previous post's "wishful thinking" -is your plan here to produce as many baseless claims as you can and then drop the request for explanation/source until maybe something will stick?

Logic doesn't need sources. I know how I feel. I know how some of my friends feel. What are the odds we're the only one?

Anet made HUGE changes to HoT to make it more casual.  Anet also made changes to the last meta in EoD to make it more casual and even took away the necessity to do it to get the turtle. Only someone with their head buried in the sand can deny that the bulk of this game's playerbase is casual PvE.

We have a source FROM ANET that says that not enough people raid for them to continue to support the format.  Maybe someone will be able to furnish you with that information, but I can't start researching right now.  It was said. You accept it or you don't.

 

We have Mike O'Brien breaking down the main player bases of the game. 60% PVE,  30% WvW, 10% PvP. That was also said. Maybe someone can find the quote.

 

So we have 60% of the playerbase, ie more than half, and not enough people raiding to continue the format. That leads me to believe that most of the playerbase is not doing harder content, but they are in fact, PvEing.  It's just a guess, but it sure looks what way when you combine those statements.

 

Annecdotally I run a guild with hundreds of people and I talk to dozens of people in game.  It's a casual guild so it's going to have a casual bias but my argument is the game has a casual bias.

Did Anet or did they not use an entirely quarterly update to make HoT less hard core? Add vets for solo players, that sort of thing?  Did they take away the hard hero points from PoF when they made that?  This is the cycle. They bring out hard stuff, people complain, they nerf it. Why? Because it's a casual player base.

 

Anyway I'm done talking to you. You're so wrapped up in your point of view, you're going to believe it no matter what I say and the same of course, is true of me. Enjoy what you think. I feel disenfranchised by Anet and that's a fact. And I don't mind working for stuff. But I sure didn't buy a game to play content I don't enjoy.

[Vayne.8563]

2 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Wonder how many players bought 150-750 clears.

But yeah, I misunderstood that's what you were talking about. If it was up to me, that would not be a thing 🤷‍♂️  From what I see there isn't "more and more" of the players that sell the raids -seems relatively stable for a LONG time. And I'm not sure where you get that "more and more people buy them", seems like "wishful" thinking for the sake of having a point. But maybe you have some stats in that regard?

That was already explained over and over again, including on the previous pages of this thread (~page 7, I think). In short, the obvious difference in reward acquisition in these modes is related to the way anet can balance your opponents in coop modes, but they can't really do it in competitive modes.

Yeah -and specifically in that case what I wrote before applies:

No, no, that seems to be a common misconception on this forum for some reason. You don't have to do anything here in regards of gear or content you choose to play, you are perfectly fine playing with ascended gear. In vast majority of cases, you're even perfectly fine playing with exotics, especially (but not exclusively) if you want to limit the content you're participating in to OW.

Something you said "it's not about" and then... went right back to the same point I've responded to. Play broader content of the game or don't expect every reward, it really is pretty straightforward and does make sense. Don't want to? Great, don't need to. You can still play with exotics/ascended in any limited content you choose to play. That was exactly the point and still is.

 

tl;dr of this thread:

🔸I want that reward!

🔹Ok, then play more of the content the game offers.

🔸But I don't want to, I want to play just that part!

🔹Ok, then keep playing that part, not having that specific reward you've just said you wanted doesn't stop you in any way from playing what you want to play.

🔸...but I want that reward!

🔹Yeah, that's great. Play what the game offers then. 

🔸wow, you're telling me I'm not worthy?!

🔹No, that's not what was said here.

Rinse and repeat.

(Somewhere in the middle of that exchange, we can also add something about "wvw has it easier than raids!" -ok, it's not like you're playing raids anyways, but go play wvw then. "but I don't want to!" ...um, ok. Then don't.)

I should have responded to a few of your points, I'll do that now.

First of all, you're assuming I don't raid.  I raid once a week now, so your first assumption is wrong.

You're assuming I don't WvW, that's not true, since I'm rank 1280 in WvW.  Doesn't really change a word I've said. I'm not predominantly a WvWer and spending hours in a game type I don't prefer is hours that I spend away from the game type I do prefer.

You seem to think it's okay to channel people into content they don't like, that requires coordination, that they need a group for that takes time.  And since a percentage of every game prefer to solo you lose some of those people in that process, whether it's reasonable or not for them to feel that way.

I've killed 11 raid bosses so far, or just over half.  It's not my preferred content. I'd rather not do it. It's not making the game more fun for me.  So I can get a piece of legendary armor, but be less happy playing the game doing it.  That's okay for you, but it's not okay for me.

I am ask for Anet to do something it's already done. We have 3 pieces of legendary in the game that were just fine. Why should legendary armor be so specific that in PvE you can only get it through raids, which doesn't even have enough people supporting it to make new raids.

That's the one question no one is able to answer.

[Fuchslein.8639]

6 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

I should have responded to a few of your points, I'll do that now.

First of all, you're assuming I don't raid.  I raid once a week now, so your first assumption is wrong.

You're assuming I don't WvW, that's not true, since I'm rank 1280 in WvW.  Doesn't really change a word I've said. I'm not predominantly a WvWer and spending hours in a game type I don't prefer is hours that I spend away from the game type I do prefer.

You seem to think it's okay to channel people into content they don't like, that requires coordination, that they need a group for that takes time.  And since a percentage of every game prefer to solo you lose some of those people in that process, whether it's reasonable or not for them to feel that way.

I've killed 11 raid bosses so far, or just over half.  It's not my preferred content. I'd rather not do it. It's not making the game more fun for me.  So I can get a piece of legendary armor, but be less happy playing the game doing it.  That's okay for you, but it's not okay for me.

I am ask for Anet to do something it's already done. We have 3 pieces of legendary in the game that were just fine. Why should legendary armor be so specific that in PvE you can only get it through raids, which doesn't even have enough people supporting it to make new raids.

That's the one question no one is able to answer.

Legendary was introduced BECAUSE of raids. Raids in the beginning where giving NOTHING. A few Gold, asc gear and a few skins. Legendary amour was from anet to the raiders, because it makes sense. Wvw and pvp in the first place where not planned in the beginning. In the beginning legy Amor should only be for raids, as a reward. As fractals have the backpack and such.

Of course anet says a lot when the day is long.

 

I mean, here where a few examples how legy armor could be implemented in ow. Why got these people so many downvotes and get ignored? I also never saw a answer for this ...

Edited April 14, 2022 by Fuchslein.8639

[Vayne.8563]

5 minutes ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

Legendary was introduced BECAUSE of raids. Raids in the beginning where giving NOTHING. A few Gold, asc gear and a few skins. Legendary amour was from anet to the raiders, because it makes sense. Wvw and pvp in the first place where not planned in the beginning. In the beginning legy Amor should only be for raids, as a reward. As fractals have the backpack and such.

Of course anet says a lot when the day is long.

 

I mean, here where a few examples how legy armor could be implemented in ow. Why got these people so many downvotes and get ignored? I also never saw a answer for this ...

I wouldn't even be arguing if people weren't arguing with me. I expressed my opinion and my feelings on the situation. That's it. People want to discuss it I will. If they stop messaging me, I've said my piece.

 

For a guy like me, an altoholic, with 60 80th level character, legendary armor would be a pretty big QOL thing. I could swap from say condi to power if I wanted to try something without running to the mystic forge. I don't need it, it would be nice to have.

I'm not ignoring suggestions, but ultimately Anet is the one who will decide if there are enough people who feel the way I do or not.

[Serephen.3420]

4 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

I wouldn't even be arguing if people weren't arguing with me. I expressed my opinion and my feelings on the situation. That's it. People want to discuss it I will. If they stop messaging me, I've said my piece.

 

For a guy like me, an altoholic, with 60 80th level character, legendary armor would be a pretty big QOL thing. I could swap from say condi to power if I wanted to try something without running to the mystic forge. I don't need it, it would be nice to have.

I'm not ignoring suggestions, but ultimately Anet is the one who will decide if there are enough people who feel the way I do or not.

60? Wow...R.i.p. for your character selection screen.😅

[Fuchslein.8639]

5 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

I wouldn't even be arguing if people weren't arguing with me. I expressed my opinion and my feelings on the situation. That's it. People want to discuss it I will. If they stop messaging me, I've said my piece.

 

For a guy like me, an altoholic, with 60 80th level character, legendary armor would be a pretty big QOL thing. I could swap from say condi to power if I wanted to try something without running to the mystic forge. I don't need it, it would be nice to have.

I'm not ignoring suggestions, but ultimately Anet is the one who will decide if there are enough people who feel the way I do or not.

Thats true, only anet has the numbers and we will see in the future if these numbers justify a ow-path. I only hope, it will be more than the lw-amulet-way, because that will be the day where I and many i know will leave gw2. Because yeah, you have your'e opinion, and other people have their opinion.

[Vayne.8563]

17 minutes ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

Thats true, only anet has the numbers and we will see in the future if these numbers justify a ow-path. I only hope, it will be more than the lw-amulet-way, because that will be the day where I and many i know will leave gw2. Because yeah, you have your'e opinion, and other people have their opinion.

Yes, a bunch of people will leave because other people can get their precious rewards.  More than people who don't like the current options of getting those rewards.  Considering the group of people who own legendary armor is likely a lot smaller than the group of people who don't, I'll happily take those odds.

[Fuchslein.8639]

1 hour ago, Vayne.8563 said:

Yes, a bunch of people will leave because other people can get their precious rewards.  More than people who don't like the current options of getting those rewards.  Considering the group of people who own legendary armor is likely a lot smaller than the group of people who don't, I'll happily take those odds.

But this is the interesting thing for me. How many so called casuals have actually a legendary weapon? Would it be really so much more than people who actually have a legendary armor trough wvw, pvp and raids?

Yes, anet said, raids are not played as much as they wanted. But i know a lot of people who don't like Raids and did get their armor nevertheless. As i read, you are one of them.

So i wonder if this is in the end the exact same thing as BLK. Most people dislike them, but also most people nevertheless buy them.
And sorry, but you say you happily sacrifice the odds, i happily sacrifice people who don't want a tat effort and thus wanting to make this game into antoher hello kitty adventure :). Because the lw-amulett is nothing more, a boring, super easy way to aquire a so called "legendary".

When you want such a game than i hope Anet never gives people like you a way to aquire the legy armor. What you are theoretically saying when you confirm that you would rather go the lw route for your "precious" rewards

Edited April 14, 2022 by Fuchslein.8639

[Vayne.8563]

20 minutes ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

But this is the interesting thing for me. How many so called casuals have actually a legendary weapon? Would it be really so much more than people who actually have a legendary armor trough wvw, pvp and raids?

Yes, anet said, raids are not played as much as they wanted. But i know a lot of people who don't like Raids and did get their armor nevertheless. As i read, you are one of them.

So i wonder if this is in the end the exact same thing as BLK. Most people dislike them, but also most people nevertheless buy them.
And sorry, but you say you happily sacrifice the odds, i happily sacrifice people who don't want a tat effort and thus wanting to make this game into antoher hello kitty adventure :). Because the lw-amulett is nothing more, a boring, super easy way to aquire a so called "legendary".

When you want such a game than i hope Anet never gives people like you a way to aquire the legy armor. What you are theoretically saying when you confirm that you would rather go the lw route for your "precious" rewards

I think a lot more casuals have legendary weapons than you think, but I can't say for sure. There's a 73 year old woman in my guild. She's  a farmer, She has farming routes and she just collects ores and wood and stuff like that, usually from core tyria. She hated HoT when it came out and almost left the game but I took her around, showed her some stuff and she ended up tolerating it until she finally got used to it.

One day she says to me, you know I'm a bit bored, I do the same thing every day. No idea what to do now. I said why not make a legendary. She was like oh, no.  I've heard it so hard. People have to grind. I couldn't do that. 

So I start asking her questions. Keep in mind she's been floating around since launch. She farms a lot but doesn't use or spend a lot. And after asking her how many obsidian shards she had and if she completed the world (which she had on a few characters) it turned out the only things she was missing was a few dungeon tokens and a gift of battle. 

The gift of battle was the hardest thing for her, but at the end of the day, she'd pretty much already had a legendary and all she was missing was putting it together.   Now she has like 11 legendary weapons and she's not a hard core player, though she plays a lot.

 

This week we were able to help her through the strike mission to get her turtle, but she's always been more of a gatherer than anything else.

 

I think in the old days it was harder for casuals to get legendaries, but these days with more sources for obby shards, more ways to get mystic clovers, more ways to more easily farm gold and stuff like laurels to get T6 mats, I think it's easier than ever to get a legendary if you're willing to take your time and just chip away at it.  The hardest thing for a lot of casuals would be the dungeons, but you used to need 9 runs of a dungeon back in the day and these days you only need 5.

 

You no longer need WvW completion to get your world complete. And mounts make world complete a lot faster anyway. Yeah, I think it's doable today for most casuals. It'll just take them a while. 

[Forgotten Legend.9281]

i've probably said this before... but Raids, fractals, DRMs, and Strikes didn't exist at launch, so for those who DID play at launch, Anet basically created a new game-mode (PvInstance, or PvI), and gave that new mode a way to acquire Legendary Armor. after a lot of talk about raids and how toxic raiders are in other games. so many of those players believe that PvE (as originally implemented in the game as OW) does not have a way to acquire legendary armor (you can get legendary trinkets from PvE, but not legendary armor, which is relegated to the other 3 game modes, but not the originally defined PvE, which is OW)

based on the above, whether i agree with it or not, i think raids, strikes and fractals should be considered a separate game mode, (PvI) and should be balanced separately (ie, have their own skill splits), because the so-called PvE balance changes seem to always be geared around PvI content, and very much ruin peoples' OW builds.

Also, the term casual is used differently by different people. some people define casual based on hours played per week, while others define the term based on whether the player learns meta-builds and meta-rotations and plays raids and CM fractals regularly. and it seems to me, when reading the forums, that raiders define "casual" by hours played. and that non-raiders define "casual" by not playing raids. in general.

i could be well wrong, and i honestly don't care. what i DO care about, is that too many people don't use (very-important) words in the same way, and it causes confusion during arguments. and the two biggest words that people use differently are "PvE" and "casual".

 

back to topic: should OW (since it is considered by many to NOT be the same game mode as raids, strikes, and fractals) offer a way to acquire Legendary armor?

my answer (brainstorming here)? i really don't know if it should, but i wouldn't be opposed to it. Legendary gear is the same stat level as ascended, and ascended is freely available in all game modes (counting 4, WvW, PvP and PvI all offer ascended armor through barter, while PvE(OW) generally offers ascended armor through crafting) the only difference between ascended and legendary is the ability to stat-swap without using the mystic forge (and while still equipped) 

so why not? new crafting recipes could be made for PvE (OW) precurser acquisition, to follow the precedent of Ascended Armor Acquisistion, and new mystic forge recipes could be made that don't use any PvI (raid, fractal, strike) currency nor items acquired via any PvI instance / currency. granted, it would take a long time to implement this, and could take resources away from other projects, but guess what? many people remember Anet saying that raids wouldn't be added to the game and now felt betrayed by it. (whether they said it or not, people claim they did.) and since raids were developed for less than 10% of the playerbase, people wonder why the other 90% are being ignored? (even if they don't factor in PvP and WvW methods) and those people feel like they are part of the 90% being ignored.

i also interpret that those same people who feel ignored also feel bullied by the people who tell them to raid (do an extremely un-fun for them game mode) to acquire the gear, especially when sPvP (which perceptively has fewer players than raids if the forums are to be believed) and WvW each have their own acquisition methods.

Also, i don't understand (this is rhetorical and another interpretation of my observations) why people are opposed to allowing others another way to acquire armor when ANET encourages people to experiment with different builds. legendary armor helps facilitate this. yes, there are many ways to acquire exotic gear. yes, there are many ways to acquire ascended gear and change their stats. but none of those ways are remotely close to as convenient as simply "customizing" gear that's already equipped. and PvI players (raids, strikes, fractal CMs) are the people that want you to be able to change builds the most, but also don't want to wait for you while you change builds. they seem to want to make it harder for everyone else to be able to adapt to the builds they want you to play, and then get mad when nobody wants to learn the game mode, and then wonder why the game mode is losing players? (kinda like PvP) and wonder why they're called toxic and still wonder why people won't try it and won't play with them.

disclaimer: i've acquired at least one set of legendary armor through WvW (i'm rank 3300+ because i actually enjoy the game mode unlike PvP where i stopped before 60), and 8 or 9 weapons over the course of 9 1/2 years playing this game.

 

back to something Vayne posted while i was writing this: Dungeon tokens can actually be acquired through items (a token voucher, not sure the official name) you acquire from Black Lion Chests, if someone happens to buy keys or key farm and happen to acquire and keep them. so for some people, they don't even need to do any dungeons in order to acquire their legendary weapons. i know this from experience opening BLCs

Edited April 14, 2022 by Forgotten Legend.9281
added WvW rank

[SlayerXX.7138]

5 hours ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

I have no source of it, how could i? Have you a Sourcecode that i'm not right?

Fair Point I do not have a Source for my Claim that most player want ascended Stats on there gear. I just assumed from that what I know. Fractals starting from t3 need the ascended gear. I think otherwise the infusion get quiet costly. I see often specific request in the lfg for strike and I assumed someone who insist on for example a BS gonna get ascended if they can help it, as that is all a BS is a stat boost. I don't know the raiding vendor but the old Strike vendor mostly had ascended gear to sell. So people who  do Strike a lot have the access to it. But no idea about raids as I don't do them. Yet. Raid armor is indeed very shiny.

 

5 hours ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

It's nice thinking, but it's also unfair thinking in my eyes. Anet shouldn't make something so easy just because the same people complain over and over again. 

A fair way would probably not be a problem for most. But that would have to be more than the way the legy amulet from the lw did go.

What's funny is how people who try to find fair methods are downvoted here, ignored or denied. Which clearly shows what most people here really want uu. 

I actual Agree whit that a lot. But it is to be expected as the post started as a way to liquidize there Insights.

Edited April 14, 2022 by Albi.7250
typo

[The Boz.2038]

Over a hundred comments later, and the closest we've come to a "what would OW legendary armor take" suggestion is... I dunno, really... complaints that WvW one takes too long, and the raid one needs raids? So I guess we're at "easy as WvW, fast as raid", then?
Does that not classify as a gimme?

[SlayerXX.7138]

4 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

Yes, a bunch of people will leave because other people can get their precious rewards.  More than people who don't like the current options of getting those rewards.  Considering the group of people who own legendary armor is likely a lot smaller than the group of people who don't, I'll happily take those odds.

Its is not about gatekeeping the reward.  It is about keeping it fair.

 

2 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

I think a lot more casuals have legendary weapons than you think, but I can't say for sure. There's a 73 year old woman in my guild. She's  a farmer, She has farming routes and she just collects ores and wood and stuff like that, usually from core tyria. She hated HoT when it came out and almost left the game but I took her around, showed her some stuff and she ended up tolerating it until she finally got used to it.

One day she says to me, you know I'm a bit bored, I do the same thing every day. No idea what to do now. I said why not make a legendary. She was like oh, no.  I've heard it so hard. People have to grind. I couldn't do that. 

So I start asking her questions. Keep in mind she's been floating around since launch. She farms a lot but doesn't use or spend a lot. And after asking her how many obsidian shards she had and if she completed the world (which she had on a few characters) it turned out the only things she was missing was a few dungeon tokens and a gift of battle. 

The gift of battle was the hardest thing for her, but at the end of the day, she'd pretty much already had a legendary and all she was missing was putting it together.   Now she has like 11 legendary weapons and she's not a hard core player, though she plays a lot.

 

This week we were able to help her through the strike mission to get her turtle, but she's always been more of a gatherer than anything else.

 

I think in the old days it was harder for casuals to get legendaries, but these days with more sources for obby shards, more ways to get mystic clovers, more ways to more easily farm gold and stuff like laurels to get T6 mats, I think it's easier than ever to get a legendary if you're willing to take your time and just chip away at it.  The hardest thing for a lot of casuals would be the dungeons, but you used to need 9 runs of a dungeon back in the day and these days you only need 5.

 

You no longer need WvW completion to get your world complete. And mounts make world complete a lot faster anyway. Yeah, I think it's doable today for most casuals. It'll just take them a while. 

I am no opposed to Legendary Armor for OW play.  The Person you responding to doesn't seem to be all against that either. A lot of people wont be opposed to the concept so long the reward structure is fair. Right now OW is where most of the rewards are. Nobody goes "hey lets make a bunch of gold in WvW" or "hey let do some PvP matches for the ugly PvP armor skin". People just don`t want it as easy as the LW amulet. I play PvP. I have all my PvP Stuff for the amulet. But just looking at the numbers I am probably better off going for the amulet and buying the LW i am missing. That was the point of it anyway. Make it so easy to get that people are funneled to the gemstore to buy LW. And now People argue about getting armor on that level of Effort. 

[Vayne.8563]

14 minutes ago, Albi.7250 said:

Its is not about gatekeeping the reward.  It is about keeping it fair.

 

I am no opposed to Legendary Armor for OW play.  The Person you responding to doesn't seem to be all against that either. A lot of people wont be opposed to the concept so long the reward structure is fair. Right now OW is where most of the rewards are. Nobody goes "hey lets make a bunch of gold in WvW" or "hey let do some PvP matches for the ugly PvP armor skin". People just don`t want it as easy as the LW amulet. I play PvP. I have all my PvP Stuff for the amulet. But just looking at the numbers I am probably better off going for the amulet and buying the LW i am missing. That was the point of it anyway. Make it so easy to get that people are funneled to the gemstore to buy LW. And now People argue about getting armor on that level of Effort. 

Well there's fair and then there's smart.  Since most of the population is the open world is probably composed of open world players, how smart it is to kitten them off. Do you think if people either spend less or play less or, worst case scenario, stop playing altogether, PvP and WvW players won't be affected, because I don't think that's the case. 

 

In fact, everyone was affected during previous player exoduses. The game has rebuilt partly due to the covid restrictions, but it can turn around pretty fast if you kitten off the core player base. Worse still, it won't happen all at once. As players get through with goals they're going to eventually start to turn to legendaries, particularly with the legendary armory. And when those players get told just suffer through PvP matches or spend a huge amount of time in WvW, or raid, if it's enough out of their comfort zone, they'll just not go for it. Some of those players will get annoyed or angry or just sad, or feel the game isn't for them.

 

BTW, you can make pretty good money running PvP tournaments.

[SlayerXX.7138]

 

And i am quoting myself here:

35 minutes ago, Albi.7250 said:

I am no opposed to Legendary Armor for OW play.  The Person you responding to doesn't seem to be all against that either. A lot of people wont be opposed to the concept so long the reward structure is fair.

Your answer with this:

16 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

Well there's fair and then there's smart.  Since most of the population is the open world is probably composed of open world players, how smart it is to kitten them off. Do you think if people either spend less or play less or, worst case scenario, stop playing altogether, PvP and WvW players won't be affected, because I don't think that's the case. 

I REALLY don't want to put words in your mouth. But that's reads like you wanna make Legendary armor really easy to get. Just to? Appease the casual player? Hope the play more challenging content after they got there easy reward? If they don't start the these game modes with one of the best carrots in the game they never will. So not that smart. Also what point is in a reward, in playing the game in fact if everything comes easy? Again: I am not opposed to Open World Legendary armor, as long as the reward structure is fair.

Edited April 14, 2022 by Albi.7250
Typo

[titje.2745]

21 hours ago, Mik.3401 said:

Ok, but if you’re not doing any challenging PvE endgame and not WvW then why do you need legendary armor?

There’s plenty of black lion skins and outfits to choose from, I guess this is what one can spend their time on if they  don’t do real endgame. Like does changing stats really matter in open world? C’mon

So you say that soo-won open world boss is no endgame? (Challenge) 

And I want it for easy free stat swap. 
You can’t decide this for others if this is Your opinion. Many professions have specs for different roles. Healer, dps, tank. 
 

I hate when selfish players just downvote it and don’t want others have the same feature. Imagine something you really want (irl) and someone just say, No. to you and you don’t deserve it. Does that feel good? I don’t think so. This is just an example. Everyone have their own thing where they want to use the armor for. If it’s not challenging content it doesn’t mean they don’t may have a chance to get the armor. They always say guildwars 2 have the best community. But that doesn’t look like when you suggest a feature like legendary armor for open world content players. 
I know mmorpg’s are about show off. 
it it’s rude and selfish as someone say others may not have a feature they got with playing content they like, yes, and probably raiding is not a challange for raiders (on normal mode) when they are into raiding for a long time. I am sure they gather the best they can like food, utility, buffs and discord. So open world without a premade group is more a challenge. 
 

I am curious if players feel better by downvoting others suggestions. And trying to prevent someone else having legendary armor. 
 

this is in general and not personal

[Fuchslein.8639]

Just one last word from me. Imagine Anet would make everything the way, they did with the amulet.
A lot of people would hype this up at the start.

But think about it. How much more content must anet bring, to keep people playing this way?
Because, now we have the amulet and people want the same way for the legy armor, but, why stop there?

At this point, i agree with the people that most of the repetitive offenders here who want the legy armor want to do next to nothing for it. Think of it what you will, but the answers and reactions in this thread show that very well.

Its just a fact that even in games, you sometimes has to go out of your'e comfort-zone to aquire stuff. And i find it ironic that in an MMO the the line to step out of the comofrt zone is drawn when you need to actively work with other players.

And i know people who have really not that much time, who have kids, work, yada yada and still somehow manage to work on the things they want. Even if it is sometimes slower. I know people with anxiety and i know even one person with a disabilty who just try there best and want to have fun. And when its not fun, they don't do it. Because thats the good thing on a game, you don't need everything.

And when you think the world ends because of this and someone is gatekeeping you ... you should go out and breath some fresh air x).

[Fuchslein.8639]

4 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

I think a lot more casuals have legendary weapons than you think, but I can't say for sure. There's a 73 year old woman in my guild. She's  a farmer, She has farming routes and she just collects ores and wood and stuff like that, usually from core tyria. She hated HoT when it came out and almost left the game but I took her around, showed her some stuff and she ended up tolerating it until she finally got used to it.

One day she says to me, you know I'm a bit bored, I do the same thing every day. No idea what to do now. I said why not make a legendary. She was like oh, no.  I've heard it so hard. People have to grind. I couldn't do that. 

So I start asking her questions. Keep in mind she's been floating around since launch. She farms a lot but doesn't use or spend a lot. And after asking her how many obsidian shards she had and if she completed the world (which she had on a few characters) it turned out the only things she was missing was a few dungeon tokens and a gift of battle. 

The gift of battle was the hardest thing for her, but at the end of the day, she'd pretty much already had a legendary and all she was missing was putting it together.   Now she has like 11 legendary weapons and she's not a hard core player, though she plays a lot.

 

This week we were able to help her through the strike mission to get her turtle, but she's always been more of a gatherer than anything else.

 

I think in the old days it was harder for casuals to get legendaries, but these days with more sources for obby shards, more ways to get mystic clovers, more ways to more easily farm gold and stuff like laurels to get T6 mats, I think it's easier than ever to get a legendary if you're willing to take your time and just chip away at it.  The hardest thing for a lot of casuals would be the dungeons, but you used to need 9 runs of a dungeon back in the day and these days you only need 5.

 

You no longer need WvW completion to get your world complete. And mounts make world complete a lot faster anyway. Yeah, I think it's doable today for most casuals. It'll just take them a while. 

Funny, we have also an old lady in our guild. And our guild leader and a friend of here, started to bring here to raids(she wanted it, because she wanted to spend more time together). And she is doing fine. She makes not the most dmg, and makes mistakes. But she has fun. Because she is with the people she likes in a game what she likes.

So, what does this say?