Very annoying flaw with the game that i wasn't aware of

[Zeusx.2906]

So i was just made aware that for some reason masteries, CORE GAME masteries are locked until you start an expansion.

 

I had a guild mate earlier who had hit level 80 for the first time and when he filled the exp bar he started getting that annoying reminder in the bottom left corner telling him to train a mastery. He was understandably confused about it. I myself didn't have this problem because a guild mate at the time offered to get me the raptor so i had no idea about this until now.

Now think about it, a new player in this situation is being told to do something he CAN'T do. And how is he then supposed to know that he needs to for some reason start an expansion in order to train masteries that are in the base game? There are two living world seasons before the first expansion! 

The fact that the game right now as things stand expects you to jump around and do story content in this disjointed way is very dumb. Its a design flaw plain and simple, a very fixable one but a design flaw nonetheless.

 

I can only assume that they mean to fix this before steam release, please for the love of god fix this before steam release.

 

I would have made this thread in the suggestions forum, if they had one. 

Edited May 11, 2022 by Zeusx.2906

[Luthan.5236]

This is not a "major" flaw. But surely some annoying thing - yeah. (Major ... I'd consider stuff that actually impacts the gameplay. Which isn't "only" annoying. Or confusing.)

Yeah they should change it. And yeah - before releasing on Steam there still is work to do. People at Steam are very picky eaters - they will instantly talk bad about the game in the steam forums and write bad reviews even for more minor issues than this one.

Edited May 11, 2022 by Luthan.5236

[Vayne.8563]

35 minutes ago, Zeusx.2906 said:

p around and do story content in this disjointed way is very dumb. Its a design flaw plain and simple, a very fix

It's not a design flaws, it's a messaging flaw and I agree, it leaves a bad taste in people's mouths. The way to fix it isn't to change anything, but to remove the popup altogether, and instead provide the pop up when you unlock masteries in the first place.

 

If you don't have it unlocked, you should get a message saying you'll get a spirit shard every time you level, until you unlock masteries.

 

That said, there are a bunch of people who don't care about story at all and would rather unlock masteries as soon as they can, story or no story.

[Zeusx.2906]

1 minute ago, Vayne.8563 said:

It's not a design flaws, it's a messaging flaw and I agree, it leaves a bad taste in people's mouths. The way to fix it isn't to change anything, but to remove the popup altogether, and instead provide the pop up when you unlock masteries in the first place.

 

If you don't have it unlocked, you should get a message saying you'll get a spirit shard every time you level, until you unlock masteries.

 

That said, there are a bunch of people who don't care about story at all and would rather unlock masteries as soon as they can, story or no story.

So then your solution is to change something, spirits shards on level up? Which is... interesting. I would go a much different way about it for sure but i guess its a solution. The issue for me would be, why spirits shards? And only between level 80 and HoT i guess? Hmm.

 

Yes but that's subjective and ignoring story makes for a terrible game. Only really works for looter hack and slash type of things.

[Zeusx.2906]

22 minutes ago, Luthan.5236 said:

This is not a "major" flaw. But surely some annoying thing - yeah. (Major ... I'd consider stuff that actually impacts the gameplay. Which isn't "only" annoying. Or confusing.)

Yeah they should change it. And yeah - before releasing on Steam there still is work to do. People at Steam are very picky eaters - they will instantly talk bad about the game in the steam forums and write bad reviews even for more minor issues than this one.

Yup, these kind of fixable unnecessary flaws would absolutely result in a couple of negative reviews. Its not like its the only one, watch a new player play GW2 its confusion after confusion and the game makes no attempt to explain most things.

Edited May 11, 2022 by Zeusx.2906

[Vayne.8563]

12 minutes ago, Zeusx.2906 said:

So then your solution is to change something, spirits shards on level up? Which is... interesting. I would go a much different way about it for sure but i guess its a solution. The issue for me would be, why spirits shards? And only between level 80 and HoT i guess? Hmm.

 

Yes but that's subjective and ignoring story makes for a terrible game. Only really works for looter hack and slash type of things.

That's pretty much what it's been for ages and still is in the rest of the game when you fill your skill bar. Spirit shards is the normal thing we get on filling our bar after 80. 

Edit: It's not even a change. The experience indicator on the bottom of the screen doesn't show it, but you still get spirit shards when you hit the experience cap for a level anyway.

Edited May 11, 2022 by Vayne.8563

[DD39C89C-1C46-4F28-BDB7-49]

  It's very old problem and it's not a bug, they done it on purpose, probably to force players to go to the expansion immediately.

There were workarounds for that, go through guild hall to that area, where you can get mastery point and spend it, which used to unlock masteries - but later few players reported that it doesn't work anymore.

On 1/27/2022 at 6:12 PM, DD39C89C-1C46-4F28-BDB7-49 said:

Ye, famous, game experience breaking, the masteries' pop-up.

There was Bug thread for it, for years, created on 2017. This year they moved it to global QoL thread, so they officially confirmed that it's not a bug, but a feature which works exactly as they want...

Old links were (non working anymore):

• https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/8524/mastery-popup-will-not-go-away
• https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/6726-mastery-popup-will-not-go-away/

 

[Zeusx.2906]

1 minute ago, Vayne.8563 said:

That's pretty much what it's been for ages and still is in the rest of the game when you fill your skill bar. Spirit shards is the normal thing we get on filling our bar after 80. 

Edit: It's not even a change. The experience indicator on the bottom of the screen doesn't show it, but you still get spirit shards when you hit the experience cap for a level anyway.

Oh i had no idea actually, literally checked my spirit shards the other day and thought huh where did i get these from... Neat!

Soooo i guess i'm a little more open to your suggestion now actually! They would have to make it obvious though. Remove the mastery reminder and add a visual and audible cue for when a spirit shard is obtained. That could work.

[Zeusx.2906]

7 minutes ago, DD39C89C-1C46-4F28-BDB7-49 said:

  It's very old problem and it's not a bug, they done it on purpose, probably to force players to go to the expansion immediately.

There were workarounds for that, go through guild hall to that area, where you can get mastery point and spend it, which used to unlock masteries - but later few players reported that it doesn't work anymore.

 

Yeah think of all the praise GW2 gets about its business model... This is shady honestly and i think they get away with it because of a couple of things. Playerbase being on the smaller side for an mmorpg, new players never getting that far and even if they do its hard to see the shadiness in it as it requires a bit of understanding the game. And lastly veteran players not caring about anything other than endgame and pvp. 

Edited May 11, 2022 by Zeusx.2906

[Vayne.8563]

7 minutes ago, Zeusx.2906 said:

Oh i had no idea actually, literally checked my spirit shards the other day and thought huh where did i get these from... Neat!

Soooo i guess i'm a little more open to your suggestion now actually! They would have to make it obvious though. Remove the mastery reminder and add a visual and audible cue for when a spirit shard is obtained. That could work.

I think there is an audio cue and it does pop up on your screen as loot when you level. They really need to fix the XP bar so you can see yourself leveling, instead of showing it solidly as full.

[Zeusx.2906]

7 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

I think there is an audio cue and it does pop up on your screen as loot when you level. They really need to fix the XP bar so you can see yourself leveling, instead of showing it solidly as full.

Dang there is ?? Well then its not obvious, i have literally never noticed when i got a spirit shard through leveling. Yeah they absolutely should show the bar filling up because otherwise its just so confusing. You got a constant full bar and popup reminder telling you to do something you can't do, for a new player it has to be confusing.

 

My guess is that this was a topic at some point at ArenaNet more specifically about whether or not they should actually tell the player within the game to buy an expansion in order to train masteries. Ultimately they decided it would look shady and figured the confusion would lead to google.

Very shady if you ask me.

Edited May 11, 2022 by Zeusx.2906

[DD39C89C-1C46-4F28-BDB7-49]

34 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

If you don't have it unlocked, you should get a message saying you'll get a spirit shard every time you level, until you unlock masteries.

That would be good, but currently when you get masteries pop-up - I don't think you're getting shards, bar is just full and you're actually wasting all experience earned during that.

[Zeusx.2906]

2 minutes ago, DD39C89C-1C46-4F28-BDB7-49 said:

That would be good, but currently when you get masteries pop-up - I don't think you're getting shards, bar is just full and you're actually wasting all experience earned during that.

Thats what i was thinking too and it made me honestly really annoyed.

[Ashantara.8731]

29 minutes ago, DD39C89C-1C46-4F28-BDB7-49 said:

That would be good, but currently when you get masteries pop-up - I don't think you're getting shards

Yes, you do. Has been confirmed by ArenaNet 🙂 -- and no, I won't use the search for you. 😋

P.S. It would indeed be nice if they added an option that allows you deactivate the pop-up at least.

Edit @ confused person: Educate yourself before giving negative feedback. Or stop trolling.
 

Edited May 11, 2022 by Ashantara.8731

[The Boz.2038]

Masteries, which are now unlocked by *any* expansion, need to be core, baseline. Also, axe the rererererererererereminder about them until you get them unlocked.

[DD39C89C-1C46-4F28-BDB7-49]

7 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

Yes, you do. Has been confirmed by ArenaNet 🙂 -- and no, I won't use the search for you. 😋

XP used to be wasted when the bar was full, when I had this problem it for sure was.

But indeed someone mentioned that in 2020 this could be changed.

Quote

Spirit shards will now be earned when experience cannot go to other forms of progress, such as Masteries or gaining levels.

  

On 1/2/2021 at 1:54 PM, Schimmi.6872 said:

That's not the case anymore, the issue with wasted XP was fixed about a year ago. As soon as XP can't go into a mastry track, they go into the normal XP-bar. This bar is just hidden in the background, till all unhidden maystery-tracks of the region are finished.

Patchnotes: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/2020-01-14#General_2

 

[Zeusx.2906]

16 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Masteries, which are now unlocked by *any* expansion, need to be core, baseline. Also, axe the rererererererererereminder about them until you get them unlocked.

Absolutely, it makes exactly zero sense that you have to start expansion story line to unlock base game masteries. Especially considering you are unlikely to be at that point story wise. HoT assumes you have been through season 1 and 2 or at least know what happened. For you to have to jump into HoT right after hitting 80 in order to unlock core Tyria masteries is bs. One can only assume that it's shady practise.

Edited May 11, 2022 by Zeusx.2906

[Luthan.5236]

Yes. The spirit shard thing is indeed confusing - especially with veteran players having to ask about this in the forums ...

It really means they should change a bit there - for clarification ingame.

The bar should still appear and refresh normally showing the shard icon. Afaik it only works "normally" with the raid masteries which are hidden if you do not do raiding. Maybe for other "hidden" stuff as well - that isn't "locked".

For the locked ones you currently get the blank square at the bottom right next to the bar. I currently have this with the turtle - which I did not unlock yet. Where it would be better if it behaved like with the hidden masteries (like the raid one). Showing the bar normally filling up - with the shard icon there - awarding a shard and then starting from 0 again.

Maybe they want it so the bar gets filled and after unlocking a locked mastery you then fully can spend the points and unlock the first tier directly? But I  think it would be better to change the bar so it also displays that you get shards (that you know this by intuition - not having to ask in the forums first).

Edit: And yes it makes no sense that you have to start with an expansion to unlock core masteries. I guess the intention was to "sell" the core masteries with the expansions - so you can't get them withot having paid for an expansion. I guess though ... this could (should!) be reworkd so it just unlocks in having the expansion bought and added to the account.

Edited May 11, 2022 by Luthan.5236

[Zeusx.2906]

14 minutes ago, Luthan.5236 said:

Yes. The spirit shard thing is indeed confusing - especially with veteran players having to ask about this in the forums ...

It really means they should change a bit there - for clarification ingame.

The bar should still appear and refresh normally showing the shard icon. Afaik it only works "normally" with the raid masteries which are hidden if you do not do raiding. Maybe for other "hidden" stuff as well - that isn't "locked".

For the locked ones you currently get the blank square at the bottom right next to the bar. I currently have this with the turtle - which I did not unlock yet. Where it would be better if it behaved like with the hidden masteries (like the raid one). Showing the bar normally filling up - with the shard icon there - awarding a shard and then starting from 0 again.

Maybe they want it so the bar gets filled and after unlocking a locked mastery you then fully can spend the points and unlock the first tier directly? But I  think it would be better to change the bar so it also displays that you get shards (that you know this by intuition - not having to ask in the forums first).

Edit: And yes it makes no sense that you have to start with an expansion to unlock core masteries. I guess the intention was to "sell" the core masteries with the expansions - so you can't get them withot having paid for an expansion. I guess though ... this could (should!) be reworkd so it just unlocks in having the expansion bought and added to the account.

 

I like your suggestions. Reset the exp bar but now with a spirit shard showing at the end. 

And yes if they really don't want to make the base game masteries completely free then they could still have them tied to the expansions but as soon as one buys one of the expansions the core game masteries unlock.

 

My biggest issue is that with how it is now its very confusing to new players and it seemingly wants you to jump ahead in the story and start an expansion and then leave it and go back to core or start living world. Its honestly extremely scuffed they absolutely need to do something about it.

Edited May 11, 2022 by Zeusx.2906

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

2 hours ago, Zeusx.2906 said:

I was aware of that. That's a thread, not a suggestions subforum. And if you think that they actually check it thoroughly you are dreaming. 

So, you are claiming the Devs aren't telling the truth when they state they read the 'QoL Suggestions' thread?   Much bold!

 

Also, if the player has the first Episode of The Icebrood Saga, and plays the first chapter, they will also unlock Masteries.  There's no fighting, and one can easily ignore the dialogue. 

[Zeusx.2906]

3 minutes ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

So, you are claiming the Devs aren't telling the truth when they state they read the 'QoL Suggestions' thread?   Much bold!

 

Also, if the player has the first Episode of The Icebrood Saga, and plays the first chapter, they will also unlock Masteries.  There's no fighting, and one can easily ignore the dialogue. 

Idk, lets face it there are some bad suggestions in there and if they do look around in there its only glancing quickly through a couple. Most never see the eyes of anyone relevant i'm positive.

 

Well that's the thing, you shouldn't have to do that. It's bad design. Just very scuffed.

Edited May 11, 2022 by Zeusx.2906

[kharmin.7683]

I reject the premise that this is a major flaw with the game.

[Zeusx.2906]

Just now, kharmin.7683 said:

I reject the premise that this is a major flaw with the game.

And i appreciate that that's your opinion of me finding it a major flaw with the game.

[kharmin.7683]

1 minute ago, Zeusx.2906 said:

And i appreciate that that's your opinion of me finding it a major flaw with the game.

Your thread title borders on hyperbole.  A major flaw would be something that would be inherently broken with the game and/or something that would prevent most (if not all) players from playing the game or completing content.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

10 minutes ago, Zeusx.2906 said:

Idk, lets face it there are some bad suggestions in there and if they do look around in there its only glancing quickly through a couple. Most never see the eyes of anyone relevant i'm positive.

 

Well that's the thing, you shouldn't have to do that. It's bad design. Just very scuffed.

I wish I had personal dialogues with the Devs telling me how they read threads and ingest information.  That would be so cool; I'm jealous of you!