"Mobility Creep" but for everybody

[Swagg.9236]

Whenever combat between two players in gw2 really initiates (especially over a tiny node, but even during the deathmatch modes), the fight will generally, if possible, gravitate toward blind corners, chokepoints, and high variances in terrain mainly because that's the most natural and accessible universal option available for players to both avoid enemy damage and also efficiently layer their own attacks into condensed burst.  Since GW2 combat mobility historically slows to a runescape standstill slugfest once it starts, the only cool, stylish mindgames that players can use to turn the tables in a bad fight are going to derive from movement.  Unfortunately, GW2's raw, unboosted WASD impact is pathetically lackluster when compared to what certain button-presses can do (teleports, non-targeted movement scripts, etc), hence why people invented and scream the term "mobility creep."

Here's your solution:  crank up non-target-dependent movement attacks (i.e. ground targeted movement, long-distance linear rolls, or arcing leap attacks) for all weapons.  Give every single weapon bar at least one crazy movement skill with a bunch of ammo.  Everybody is a flickery, leaping, high-octane juke machine.  What this does is it gives people options to get to cover and bait opponents into damage,  but also gives players the option to chase enemies and pressure all areas of a map in conquest.  Combat becomes a little less about "build vs build" hard counters and more about baiting, timing, and juking.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

Fun fact:

With a Willbender, you can chase people and kill them without needing to push WASD movement keys.

[Tescao.3042]

The fuss has become a trendy, perhaps we are just seeing a certain reflection of this trend. Good point, then everything should be trendy.

[Swagg.9236]

6 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Fun fact:

With a Willbender, you can chase people and kill them without needing to push WASD movement keys.

That's the problem I'm talking about.  Where's the player input and skill ceiling if the game's buttons are just doing all the thinking and orienting for the players?  I honestly wish all players could spend endurance to do Raptor Mount leaps in addition to dodging (or something).  At least then people could misplay or be creative with their resources and positioning.

[Eugchriss.2046]

6 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Fun fact:

With a Willbender, you can chase people and kill them without needing to push WASD movement keys.

hyperbole in its finest.

Fun fact:

with soulbeast you can kill people with 1 skill.

[Crab Fear.8623]

This better be satire, coming from you.

[Swagg.9236]

4 hours ago, Crab Fear.8623 said:

This better be satire, coming from you.

Lol, what's that supposed to mean?

[Swagg.9236]

5 hours ago, Eugchriss.2046 said:

hyperbole in its finest.

Fun fact:

with soulbeast you can kill people with 1 skill.

You're not wrong, but it's rather easy and straightforward to  "fix" dumb shenanigans like ranger having a 2000-range backstab that deals 20k if your class-based and arbitrary-recharge stunbreak just happens to be on cooldown.

Even if no-effort 1HKOs were culled, you'd still have the issue of combat generally trending toward a paradigm of "those with the most scripted movement attacks wins."  However, if everybody was leaping around like Spiderman between high-rises, you'd probably see a lot more variety in options.  If raw movement options were more universal, there would exist the chance to misplay and outplay people with clear use of a mechanic to which everyone would have access.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

7 hours ago, Eugchriss.2046 said:

hyperbole in its finest.

Fun fact:

with soulbeast you can kill people with 1 skill.

That is not hyperbole. Willbender very seriously has enough direct teleport & gap closing skills that you can just maintain a target on someone and actually aggressively chase it with just teleports & gap closers. Should I stream it for you? Do you need me to do it?

Soulbeast requires the use of: Quick Zephyr, Sic Em, One Wolf Pack, Barrage, Rapid Fire, to land one-bursts, which is like its entire skill bar. Or alternatively, hit that combo with Maul > WI > Maul for a 3shot. Saying Soulbeast kills in with 1 skill is just a misinformed strawman to distract from the fact that Willbender actually can chase kills with just teleports & gap closers. This happens in every game against p+ Willbenders. You can sit and watch them do it.

Oh and Willbender is a class that really can kill in 1 skill. Willbenders can mow you down with a single GS2 or Whirling Light. Two skills at most, JI into GS2 or Whirling Light into a team fight and they can cleave several targets down in one go. They very easily out DPS Soulbeast. They land like 15k's rather casually with single GS2 or Whirling Light.

Edited May 25, 2022 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[SPESHAL.9106]

Most professions have combos and builds that can lead to high burst.  Few can spec that way and ALSO have 100% scaling immunity defenses PLUS blocks PLUS extreme mobility PLUS low cooldowns PLUS heavy armor PLUS perma condi mitigation.

[Eugchriss.2046]

2 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

That is not hyperbole. Willbender very seriously has enough direct teleport & gap closing skills that you can just maintain a target on someone and actually aggressively chase it with just teleports & gap closers. Should I stream it for you? Do you need me to do it?

 

Yes please.

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

On 5/25/2022 at 2:36 AM, Swagg.9236 said:

Whenever combat between two players in gw2 really initiates (especially over a tiny node, but even during the deathmatch modes), the fight will generally, if possible, gravitate toward blind corners, chokepoints, and high variances in terrain mainly because that's the most natural and accessible universal option available for players to both avoid enemy damage and also efficiently layer their own attacks into condensed burst.  Since GW2 combat mobility historically slows to a runescape standstill slugfest once it starts, the only cool, stylish mindgames that players can use to turn the tables in a bad fight are going to derive from movement.  Unfortunately, GW2's raw, unboosted WASD impact is pathetically lackluster when compared to what certain button-presses can do (teleports, non-targeted movement scripts, etc), hence why people invented and scream the term "mobility creep."

Here's your solution:  crank up non-target-dependent movement attacks (i.e. ground targeted movement, long-distance linear rolls, or arcing leap attacks) for all weapons.  Give every single weapon bar at least one crazy movement skill with a bunch of ammo.  Everybody is a flickery, leaping, high-octane juke machine.  What this does is it gives people options to get to cover and bait opponents into damage,  but also gives players the option to chase enemies and pressure all areas of a map in conquest.  Combat becomes a little less about "build vs build" hard counters and more about baiting, timing, and juking.

"Unfortunately, GW2's raw, unboosted WASD impact is pathetically lackluster when compared to what certain button-presses can do"

Your solution makes your issue worse, what you should be asking for is an increase in base movement speed, no?

Edit: oh, you're asking for something more like a dodge but with movement. Makes me think of Gunz: The Duel. But GW2's movement engine is terrible, look at how much movement skills bug and lag and miss. That's one of the things that I think could only be fixed with a gw3.

Edited May 26, 2022 by agrippastrilemma.8741

[Swagg.9236]

3 hours ago, agrippastrilemma.8741 said:

"Unfortunately, GW2's raw, unboosted WASD impact is pathetically lackluster when compared to what certain button-presses can do"

Your solution makes your issue worse, what you should be asking for is an increase in base movement speed, no?

Edit: oh, you're asking for something more like a dodge but with movement. Makes me think of Gunz: The Duel. But GW2's movement engine is terrible, look at how much movement skills bug and lag and miss. That's one of the things that I think could only be fixed with a gw3.

The fact that you mentioned Gunz: The Duel means you know what true coolness is.  That said, yes, GW2's engine is a super-outdated spaghetti trash fire, but they did miraculously manage to implement the movement we see with mounts (and there are still some leftover gold nuggets from launch-era like the engineer Jump Shot variants in Lion's Arch and the Charr starter zone heart).  Things like the raptor leap can be decently controlled.  It'd be pretty cool to see a gw2 more focused on player decisions with manual movement than the passive, "select target mash keyboard" twitchy-fest that it is now.  Gw2 PvP is like "second-turn yugioh deck" tier lol.

[Bazsi.2734]

I argue we shouldn't stop there. Why make everyone into a thief without also making everyone into a necromancer, a warrior, a guardian... 21K base health, shroud, heavy armor for everyone! So that this game can finally be about skill! STaNdARDizE!

[Spellhunter.9675]

1 hour ago, Bazsi.2734 said:

I argue we shouldn't stop there. Why make everyone into a thief without also making everyone into a necromancer, a warrior, a guardian... 21K base health, shroud, heavy armor for everyone! So that this game can finally be about skill! STaNdARDizE!

Now I have a nightmare about reaper pops lich in stealth and kill me before he even render.

Thanks.

[Bazsi.2734]

1 hour ago, Spellhunter.9675 said:

Now I have a nightmare about reaper pops lich in stealth and kill me before he even render.

Thanks.

Ah yes and undo the 2020 february patch. Imagine not having perma 25 might, imagine not hitting for 10K. So weak.

[Yoshitsune.8537]

Or try another angle: 

 

Instead of punishing afks, reward better NOT AFKs. 

Something like top stats rewarding one more pip, but not only for top stats (most of the time those who get discouraged and afk would not be in the top stats no matter how much they try). 

Could be pips, reward track progress, gold, anything is fine as long as it's proportional to your participation: damages, healing, boons applied, cc applied... 

 

Lately I have had the worst of luck, and I'm loosing basically all my matches due to the worst matchmaking I ever saw, and have to admit when you get a full wipe in less than 15 sec at the first battle at mid, you just want to give up the match... 

I don't because I'm trying to progress, but right now honestly I think I'll stop PvP for a while, even though I didn't finish my legendary armor yet (3 out of 6 pieces)

 

[Zoser.7245]

5 hours ago, Yoshitsune.8537 said:

Or try another angle: 

 

Instead of punishing afks, reward better NOT AFKs. 

Something like top stats rewarding one more pip, but not only for top stats (most of the time those who get discouraged and afk would not be in the top stats no matter how much they try). 

Could be pips, reward track progress, gold, anything is fine as long as it's proportional to your participation: damages, healing, boons applied, cc applied... 

 

Lately I have had the worst of luck, and I'm loosing basically all my matches due to the worst matchmaking I ever saw, and have to admit when you get a full wipe in less than 15 sec at the first battle at mid, you just want to give up the match... 

I don't because I'm trying to progress, but right now honestly I think I'll stop PvP for a while, even though I didn't finish my legendary armor yet (3 out of 6 pieces)

 

Reward bots for spamming skills?  Great!  😁

[Poledra Val.1490]

Now that Necro (Harbinger) has crazy mobility all semblence of logic goes out the window for me.

Edited May 26, 2022 by Poledra Val.1490

[Swagg.9236]

1 hour ago, Poledra Val.1490 said:

Now that Necro (Harbinger) has crazy mobility all semblence of logic goes out the window for me.

Harbinger being dumb is just due to lazy design (which is frankly better off culled or repurposed in pieces).  The idea of players having access to a strong, generic movement tool operates on a parallel design paradigm to the reason why GW2 has so many busted, boring and homogeneous builds bottlenecking the metagame and suffocating creative expression.

[Swagg.9236]

10 hours ago, Bazsi.2734 said:

I argue we shouldn't stop there. Why make everyone into a thief without also making everyone into a necromancer, a warrior, a guardian... 21K base health, shroud, heavy armor for everyone! So that this game can finally be about skill! STaNdARDizE!

There are actually enough specific, unique abilities, gimmicks and ideas for each class around which you could build a purposeful diversity or function (and flavor) for every profession's super leap.   For instance, imagine Mesmer:

F1 - Raptor Leap and leave a clone at your location

F2 - Create a clone that does a raptor leap in your current facing direction

F3 - Portal (10,000 range; 10s recharge; 2 ammo; 120s count recharge)

F4 - Mind Wrack (other shatters moved to utility pool with some respective upgrades; Continuum Split made into an elite skill; gravity well is a utility now; honestly the elite slot is so dumb we really just need a full suite of util slots with the option to take "one-per-bar elite skills")

[Bazsi.2734]

5 minutes ago, Swagg.9236 said:

There are actually enough specific, unique abilities, gimmicks and ideas for each class around which you could build a purposeful diversity or function (and flavor) for every profession's super leap.   For instance, imagine Mesmer:

F1 - Raptor Leap and leave a clone at your location

F2 - Create a clone that does a raptor leap in your current facing direction

F3 - Portal (10,000 range; 10s recharge; 2 ammo; 120s count recharge)

F4 - Mind Wrack (other shatters moved to utility pool with some respective upgrades; Continuum Split made into an elite skill; gravity well is a utility now; honestly the elite slot is so dumb we really just need a full suite of util slots with the option to take "one-per-bar elite skills")

This is awesome. I'll take the inspiration and Raptor Leap straight through my window. I live on the third floor, that's high enough.

Edited May 26, 2022 by Bazsi.2734

[Swagg.9236]

8 minutes ago, Bazsi.2734 said:

This is awesome. I'll take the inspiration and Raptor Leap straight through my window. I live on the third floor, that's high enough.

That's certainly one way to escape the claustrophobically low skill ceiling of GW2 PvP.  The sky's the limit, friendo.

Edited May 26, 2022 by Swagg.9236

[SlayerXX.7138]

1 minute ago, Swagg.9236 said:

That's certainly one way to escape the claustrophobically low skill ceiling of GW2 PvP. 

If anything the skill ceiling is to high. There is a multitude of skill interaction and dynamics at play in most pvp matches. The biggest problem is the pvp population is not high enough to fill the void between average and High to make a pleasant ranking up experience.

 

There is a ton of movement. Sure the support guardian or most necro variants dont move a lot, but that is kinda their thing.

 

On 5/25/2022 at 4:36 AM, Swagg.9236 said:

Here's your solution:  crank up non-target-dependent movement attacks (i.e. ground targeted movement, long-distance linear rolls, or arcing leap attacks) for all weapons.

More then enough already. Also that would be just more mobility "buttons" which you dont want?
People move plenty around per wasd. Which elo are you?
 

[Swagg.9236]

39 minutes ago, Albi.7250 said:

If anything the skill ceiling is to high. There is a multitude of skill interaction and dynamics at play in most pvp matches. The biggest problem is the pvp population is not high enough to fill the void between average and High to make a pleasant ranking up experience.

 

There is a ton of movement. Sure the support guardian or most necro variants dont move a lot, but that is kinda their thing.

 

More then enough already. Also that would be just more mobility "buttons" which you dont want?
People move plenty around per wasd. Which elo are you?
 

I got to top 50 on core power guard running advance, sanctuary and wall of reflection, but I don't know what happened to that rank because I didn't play the last few days of that season.  LOOK AT THAT SETUP.   It is RUNESCAPE STATIONARY.  I ran it was because it happened to be super fun baiting people into bubbles for damage, but it also really put into perspective how sluggish and reactive gw2 combat is.  For all the layered, instant bullhonkey that anybody can keyboard-faceroll out at the drop of a hat, there is no intellectual substance; no real mind games or protracted struggles.   There's no grappling; just bullrushing a guy looking the other direction.

You can disagree.  That's fine.  But ask yourself the next time you see that really bad matchup for your class standing on that point waiting for you to come make the mistake of fighting him if you really, REALLY think that WASD is going to be your choice to start that (or any other) engagement if you have a handful of low CD teleports or evading leap attacks baked into your easy-mode weapon bar.  And then if you avoid the matchup entirely, where's your skill?  I thought this game had a high skill ceiling?  Why submit to the hard counter then?